Full meeting transcript - September 9, 2025

» Good evening, everyone. Let's be called to order. We are a few in number but mighty in participation here. We've got Mr. Tomlinson on his way and Mr. Brazel somewhere in the building and Mr. Jones is on his way as well, I believe. Welcome out to the September 9th, 2025 Kershaw County Council meeting. We've been called to order. We have an invocation and pledge of allegiance tonight by Councilman Derek Shumake. Let's bow our heads. Dear Heavenly Father, as we always do, we ask you to watch over our hearts and minds as we conduct the business for the people of Kershaw County. And Lord, please give us the courage to do those things that are necessary. Please give us the restraint to refrain from those things we need not do and of course the wisdom to know the difference.

» And Lord, this is a great county and we just ask that in these trying years to come, you watch over this county as you have done since its beginning. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Come on in and say, Russell. Thank you, Councilman Shumake. And welcome, Councilman Brazel. All right, the next item up on the agenda is adoption of the agenda. Do we have a motion? Make a motion. We adopt the agenda as submitted. Mr. Chair. Mr. Tucker, we have a motion. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Cato has a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand. Ms.

» Hannah, it's unanimous and favored by those who are present in voting. Next on the agenda, we have public comments. Mr. DuBose. Public comments. There are three speakers. Brian McCarty is the first speaker. Subject is neighborhood. Mr. McCarty. Mr. McCarty here. Yes, sir. Come on up. You've got up to five minutes. It's time for Council to hear from the public. Normally, I keep to myself. I live by myself. If you would speak into the mic, there's some folks listening remotely. Otherwise, they won't be able to hear you. I'm sorry. Normally, I stay to myself. I actually live by myself, me, and I've got two pets, one of which, as the saying goes, this door's not here for mine. You kicked in. It's not here for my protection. It was yours. But it's gotten to the point.

» I mean, it really has gotten to the point, and I'm not just the only one out there. People don't say anything because they're scared to say anything. They get my gist. I mean, they really are. I got bullet holes in my house. I live out in Shepherd Acres. I can tell you what they call it out there, but I'm pretty sure what I'm telling you, you know. I mean, there's gunfire every dadgum day. I sat on my front porch, and I ain't gonna joke. I'm backslidden. Used to be the biggest religious person in the world. I sat out there one night, and my lady friend was on the phone with me, and gunfire broke out, and it ricocheted right in front of my house down through the woods. I mean, that's bad, but the animal control out there is unbelievable.

» I came back in because I had to go to her house to get a night's sleep, just get a night's sleep, because I couldn't get sheriff's for trouble. I called it three times. They were closed. I had to call 911. So, I went down to my lady friend's house in Georgia, just to get a night's sleep. Well, you know what I found out when I got back? Right before I pulled in my driveway, there's five dogs in the middle of the road. They're fighting over something. So, I pulled in my driveway. I said, I'm not scared of nothing. Mom always said, I'm too crazy to be scared, or that they're too stupid. I wait amongst the bunch of them, and you know what I find? These dogs has killed a cat, and they're shredding it in the middle of the road, right in front of a house with kids in it.

» And county, animal control, keep telling me, we can't do anything. Something's got to be done. There's dogs running rampant out there. What if that dog, that pack of dogs had gotten one of them kids? Now, me, I'm going to tell you something grab me. It won't happen. I got a 110-pound pit mastiff in my house. I call big boy. I'm not worried about it. The roads. Last year, it cut out. I had to have a neighbor. I paid him to come and fill my driveway in. The entire drain was completely uncovered. I couldn't get through my yard. I had to drive over my yard to get into my house. This past weekend, it washed it out again. I got out shovels, took pain medicine, leveled up my driveway. It's unreal. Like I say, I don't like to complain, but it's unreal out there. Something's got to be done.

» I can't sleep at night. There's gunfire. If it ain't gunfire, there's fights. Screaming across the neighborhood. And if I don't do that, I'm scared to take my dog out there. One night, I was out walking my dog. Seven dogs, I could catch them in the street like coming after me and him. Since then, I'll go ahead and tell you, I don't go out my door without my firearm. It's that bad, sir. It's got to stop. Shepherd Acres. Go down Persimmon Drive. It's not hard to stop them and catch them because there's a double wide on the other side of the road down the road from me. I've seen them down there. I don't know what they're doing in that, but I can only imagine. It's a vacant double wide with a huge lot. You could sit there and the four wheelers, dirt bikes, they tear the road up.

» You scrape it. They come out there and they just do donuts all in the road. Nobody's stopping. When does it stop? I'm living in the HE double toothpicks and it's got to stop. It's like on the weekends. I can't call the sheriff's department. They're closed. I did this past weekend. I had to call 911 to get a cop to come out. That's shameful. All I could give was recording. So I got up, got my dog ready, my cat, and went to my lady friend's house. It's a shame that I got to leave the state to go and get a night's sleep so I can work the next morning. So what have I got to do? Nobody out there is going to do anything because everybody's scared of everybody. Your time's concluded, but did you already leave your contact information? Yeah, I got my phone number down there.

» Okay, it's down? Okay. Well, we've got it for follow-up. If we could get your full name and address and a phone number, we can figure out which council member is your district and we'll be happy to follow up, sir. It's like I said, the county dog, what is it, the animal control? They literally told me, put that dog down because we can't get nothing done about it. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. May I say something to you, please? Sure. Thank you. I apologize for being late. Well, welcome in. Thank you so much. But let me just say this too, okay? I ran animal control for 25 years. There's always something that can be done. We can do something. It's just going to take a lot of work. So we don't ever need to be passing it off. Not that I, not the staff did.

» I'm not saying which of what, but I'm sure Mr. Templer will take care of it. I feel very sure he will. Because that's a comment our employees should never make to the public. There's nothing we can do. There's always something we can do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brown. I appreciate you. I was going to request that Danny follow up with Jimmy that he made sure that animal control, follows up with him and see if we can get this information to the sheriff and have the sheriff follow up with him also about some of this information he's given. It's not hard to find them. They're out in the neighborhood every day and every night. They run through their neighborhood. Thank you, sir. Who do we have next, Mr. DuBose? If you could leave. You can give it with him. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

» Yes, sir. Eve Carlin, Constitution. Ms. Carlin, yes, ma'am. Constitution Day event. Apologies. Good evening. Evening. Good evening. My name is Eve Carlin. And as most of you know, I'm a community activist here in Kershaw County. Tonight, I am representing the Kershaw County Democratic Party. We are having a Constitution Day event this Saturday, September 13th from 10 a.m. to 12 noon at the Town Green in Camden. I'm sure as you all know, Constitution Day itself is September 17th and that is on a Wednesday. So we felt to enable more of the public to come to a community event, we would hold it on this Saturday, September 13th. So this Constitution Day may be the first type of event for the public in Kershaw County for many decades.

» And we are having the mayor of Camden, Vincent Shaheen, who will be giving a proclamation. We are having youth speakers come. We're having live music of patriotic songs. And we are giving out 200 free pocket-sized constitutions to anyone who comes to the event, especially children. So we hope that you all can come. We want to extend an invitation. It has been in the Chronicle Independent. It has been in the Elgin News. It's been on social media. It's been on some radio stations. But I wanted to come tonight to make sure you all knew about it, to invite you all to come, to be recognized in our audience, and to share in this community day honoring our United States Constitution. So I have some flyers for you all, and maybe I can give them to you.

» Okay, and we invite you to come, and we hope you can come, your schedules permit, for this very exciting day for Kershaw County called Constitution Day this Saturday. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Carlin. I appreciate the information. Next speaker is Dye DeBose, Historic Equine Overlay. Mr. DeBose, evening. I have a question for you all. Has anything been done about the inclusion of a historic equine overlay in the county's comprehensive plan? This is vital to the preservation of the horse industry in our county. For example, the two parcels of the Camden Training Center, both in the city and the county, Boykin, Camden Hunt Country, and surrounding areas, i.e. Red Fox Road, and the horse farms along Sanders Creek Road.

» Regarding the two parcels of the Camden Training Center, lest we forget Mrs. Marion DuPont Scott's contributions to both the city and the county. Please preserve her heritage as to the horse world and the equine industry, a leading industry in Kershaw County, by placing a historic equine overlay on these parcels. Thank you for coming out, Ms. DeBose. Anyone else? Mr. DeBose? No. Okay, that concludes public comments. Next item on the agenda is number 6A. This is a public hearing. This is regarding clarification of public hearing notice requirements. I'll go ahead and open the public hearing. Do we have anyone signed up? Mr. DeBose? No, Mr. Chair. Anyone present wishing to come and speak on item 6A on the agenda? Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.

» That moves us to item number 7A, approval of minutes. Do we have a motion? I'll make a motion. We approve the minutes. Mr. Shoemake has the motion. Is there a second? I'll second it. Mr. Brazel has a second. Any discussion? Seeing no discussion, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor of approving amendments, raise your hand. Ms. Hannah, it's unanimous by those who are present and voting in favor. Thank you, Ms. Hannah. That moves us to number 8A, first reading and title only regarding an updated comprehensive plan adoption. Do we have a motion? I'll make a motion. We adopt the first reading of the comp plan and title only. Mr. Shoemake has the motion. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Tucker has a second. Any discussion, Mr. Shoemake? So this is the comprehensive plan.

» While this ordinance is read in title only, the actual plan was approved last night. Is that correct, Mr. Administrator? Correct. Unanimously. Yeah. So this is the same comprehensive plan that was approved last night by the planning commission. So that document has been publicly available for some time, but it's read here in title only because we weren't sure what final form it would be in. This is first reading. It's the comp plan that the planning commission unanimously approved after months and months of work. And so this will just be the first reading and we still have these other two readings to make any adjustments. But it's worth noting that this went through multiple public comments led by a very active planning commission that did a great job with it.

» Then it went to a contractor to vet it for legal compliance and then went back to the planning commission for a final vote that happened last night. It'll come to us. These are the steps that are required for us to rewrite the zoning code. That's why we wanted to go and get title only reading tonight so that we can start in earnest with the zoning code during the moratorium as soon as we pass this thing in October. Thank you, Mr. Fumate. Mr. Tucker, you have the second? Yes, sir, but I ditto and I have nothing to add. All right. Thank you. Any further discussion, counsel? Seeing none, we'll move it to a vote on 8A, first reading and title only. All in favor, raise your hand. Ms. Hanna, it passes unanimously for those who are present in voting. Mr.

» Administrator, any update we need before we seek a motion on 8B? No, sir. Okay. We've got 8B before us, first reading and title only regarding a joint multi-county business park with Lee County. Do we have a motion? I make a motion that we read the joint multi-part business park for first reading, title only. Mr. Tucker has the motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Mr. Shumate has a second. Before we get to discussion, Mr. DuBose and Mr. Templer, for the public, would you remind us which project or business it's for? Yes, Mr. Chairman, members of council, this adds project NAM into the MCIP with Lee County. This is over at the old Kalashima building, building B. The backside, yeah. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Thank you. Mr. Tucker, you have the motion. Any discussion? No, sir.

» It's in title only, so it's as it speaks. There you go. Mr. Shoemake, anything? No, sir. Any other council members? A quick question, tentative scheduled readings. Second hearing is September 25th. That's a Thursday. Is that correct? The second should be, yeah, that should be the 23rd. Third. Yes, sir. Good catch. I want to just clarify that because I didn't plan on being here that Thursday. I probably didn't either, Mr. Brazler. So the public hearing and the second reading is September 23rd, 2025. That's fine. I was ready to do a call meeting because we talked about it last time. Mr. Chair. You've got a time for it. Yes, sir. Also, this, in the body of this ordinance here, it will also amend the process moving forward on how properties are added to our MCIPs.

» The non-sponsoring county will now be allowed to simply pass a resolution as opposed to three votes in a hearing by their council. Is that a creature of state law that allows us to change the process now? Correct. Most – a lot of MCIPs are set up in that way so that the non-sponsored county doesn't have to undertake three readings, the expense of a public hearing notice. Makes sense. And timing-wise, Lee County only has one meeting per month. So sometimes the tail is wagging the dog on scheduling for getting these things added. And publication. Kershaw would still have to pass three readings of an ordinance to put property in. Likewise, a property located in Lee County would take three readings of an ordinance to place it in. Kershaw would just have a resolution counterpart. Makes sense.

» Mr. Kato. I've got a question and I hope this doesn't sound bad. So I see all this property that we put into this agreement, but I never see nothing coming out of Lee County coming to us. So MCIPs are a statutory mechanism by which local governments can provide even further incentives to businesses. For instance, they provide $1,000 credit per job created within the MCIP towards the business and businesses can also get – or industries can get reimbursed for their infrastructure costs to get up and running. The – again, you have to have a partner county. Some MCIPs that I've seen, including this one, are, you know, the vast majority of property, if not all the property that's in there, is from one of the counties. But counties routinely partner on these. You have to have a partner county.

» And, again, it's a statutory mechanism by which you can provide further economic incentives to industries. I believe Kershaw County has an MCIP as well with Fairfield County. And there might be yet another MCIP out there. But I know we have one with Fairfield and one with Lee. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Kato. Any further questions, discussion? Seeing none, we're on 8B, first reading and title only. Seeing no further discussion, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor of passing 8B, raise your hand. It's unanimous by those who are present and voting, which is the entire council now, Ms. Hanna. All right, gentlemen, that moves us to item number 8C, a second reading. This is an ordinance amendment to improve and clarify procedures and timelines applicable to proposed tax amendments. Mr.

» Administrator, any other update we need before we seek a motion? No, sir. Okay. Is there a motion for second reading on 8C? I make a motion. Second. Mr. Shoemake has the first. Mr. Tucker has a second. Mr. Shoemake, any discussion? Just to remind everyone, this is the ordinance that will change our ZLDR to comport with South Carolina statute to give the Planning Commission 30 days, which is the max allowed under the statute. And then if no action is taken, it can come back to us for a vote. That's it. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Tucker? No, sir. I have nothing. Council members, any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand on 8C. Ms. Hannett passes unanimously on second reading.

» That takes us to item number 9A, placed on the agenda by Vice Chairman Russell Brazel. Is there a motion? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to clarify an ordinance on building inspections and inspection fees. I'll second. Thank you. It's on for discussion. Yes. Yes, just discussion only. So we've had, I've had a few contractors call quite upset with the way they've had to pay for their re-inspections. And in last year's budget, it was passed that if you called for a re-inspection, say you failed your foundation inspection and someone had to come back out, that it would go from $50 to $100, as I've understood it, and the way it reads is re-inspections, 50 for the first, 100 for the second re-inspection, 200 for the third, 400 for the fourth, and subsequent re-inspections.

» So that tells me that $400 is the maximum for re-inspection. And I'm going to need a little bit of clarification because I know it differs if you're building a slab house versus a traditional raised foundation. But I imagine we've got what, four or five inspection processes. Joey, would you like to clarify that? Hey, welcome, Joey. Thanks for being here. Have the mic, please. I said yes. Give us the rundown. It's a footing, a framing, and a rough end. Are those together or separate? I'll ask our chief building official to join me, as he is the building official. Obviously, it depends on what type of house you're building: pole house, slab house, or crawl space. Sam, can we get you into the mic? I can barely hear you. I'm very sorry. No, it's all right. I'm just going deaf. Thanks.

» Okay, so it depends on the type of house that you're building. Different types would be like a pole barn type house, a slab house, or a crawl space. A crawl space, for example, you go out and you do a footing, you do a foundation, and then after that, you do a rough end. If you were doing a slab house, you would do a under slab plumbing, and then a slab inspection, and then a rough end. So there's about the same amount of inspections, depending on what it is you're doing, but they're a little different. So you've got four or five different inspections? Yes. After rough end, you'd have electrical, hook up your final electrical, and then a final. Okay.

» So to define a re-inspection, a re-inspection would be if the guy who dug the foundation failed the footing and he needed a re-inspection on the footing, then subsequently he would pay more money, right? Since he failed. Yes, anytime you fail, it doubles in price. Up to $400. So when you get to framing, that's a different inspection? Well, it's a different inspection, but you don't start over at $50. Okay. So I don't see how that is defined or clarified in our ordinance. So I think the council needs to take that up for a point of discussion and clarification, unless I'm missing something. That's how we have seen it since it was passed. That's how we determined we wanted it to be. So staff just kind of took it that way and went with it. Good. So, no, we didn't just take it and run with it.

» It's been done that way for many, many years. So this is a new law as of this fiscal year, correct? No, actually, in 2024, no, we've always had re-inspection fees. The fees went up. Yeah, the fees went up as a measure to try to eliminate our inspectors. And at that time, there were two. We now have three. But at that time, we had two to not be the quality control for the builders. That's who they have on their staff. We are inspecting for life safety issues. So what we wanted to do was have a progressive re-inspection fee schedule so that it was, Yes, I'm sorry, but it was to penalize those builders that were not having their staff quality control and control the quality of development and building that they were doing on the site.

» Because otherwise, the fees fall on the, or the cost falls on the backs of the taxpayers of Kershaw County. Well, if we're charging $400, I think we're probably at that point making a profit. May I, when you get it, when you get to a point, I'd like to, I can have some insight on that just on the, from the finance committee side. Yeah, sure. So I think what I'd like to do is clarify the way I understand inspections is that you would have an inspection for foundation. The guy who does the foundation is not the guy who does your electrical or your plumbing or your framing, although the general contractor or residential contractor is ultimately responsible for the entire project. Right.

» So I, I see both sides of the equation, but I don't think council was given an opportunity to digest and understand the way that this was going to play out. And it may, Joey, just be an unintended consequence. Lack of communication, misinterpretation on either side. But what I would like to do is clarify it. So I received a call and the gentleman was told that he had to pay $800 to get someone back out. Right. And he says, Russell, and I knew the guy from Columbia, nice gentleman. He said, I have never in my life, I've been building for 15 years or so, had to pay an inspection fee this high. He said, we've had trouble getting clarity and communication as to what all is incorrect. We've called people, we have not received phone calls back.

» So I feel like when the inspector's here, I'm going to have to run him down and just hold on to him. Because if we fail again, it's going to be $1,600. And so that's how I became involved in this process. And once I saw this, I realized, I said, I don't, I don't think that's right. John DeBose and I talked. I think that was John Wood on a Thursday or Friday. And we quickly determined that something had kind of gone awry. And so I think we have a list of incidences in which people were charged more than the $400. Is that correct, Joey? Yes, there were nine and five of them were actually a track builder. And we have processed those refunds as of today. So it was illegal. I disagree, but I'd like, I mean, I don't want to cut into Mr.

» Brazel's time here, but I have some thoughts on, on that when I have an opportunity to speak here. If you don't cover it, then I would like to speak as well. So, yeah, we've got one, one time D.R. Horton was charged a fee of $1,600. Rightfully so. Okay. We'll talk about that more later. Another time they were charged eight. Another time they were charged eight. So one, two, three, four, five times that they were charged double or triple the maximum amount. Then a national home builders LLC was charged 800 on two occasions. And then executive construction was charged 800. And the right group was charged 800. So, and we're doing the right thing by refunding the money. Absolutely.

» But my question is, how do we, how do we arrive at, at charging fees that exceeded our, our ordinance? Well, it was, uh, and I don't know if, um, administration wants to step in with any comments, but it was a miscommunication between, uh, finance committee from April of 2024 to the May meeting of 2024. And then the enactment of the budget proviso. So it was a total of $4,400, which, uh, we again have, uh, uh, satisfied the, the refunding of, of those this week. Good. Um, well, I just, I want to make sure that people are being treated fairly, you know, Kershaw, Kershaw, Kershaw County is open for business. And if we're open for business from an economic development standpoint, those people are going to need homes. Obviously we're currently in a moratorium.

» We're currently working on what the future of Kershaw County looks like. And I think we're doing that the right way. I just, I want to make sure that, that people are treated the way that we would want to be treated. And they are, I assure you, I've heard otherwise, I won't elaborate. In public. But I really want to make sure that people that are in the building industry are treated respectfully because they're trying to provide for their families. And, um. So am I. I, I have no other motive in this. Right. Except to provide a great service. Thank you, sir. And, and so, you know, as we are all in it together, um, I hope that we can just come to a, to a conclusion that benefits all of us, Mr. Tucker. Yes, sir.

» Do you have any thoughts on how the fees are charged? Because we've had some discussion. Yes, sir. I've got some good dialogue. I don't want to step on my. I was going to say, Mr. Shoemake has the full notes. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll yield to Mr. Tucker and then I'll go after him. Go ahead. I'll, I'll just give you a quick synopsis. So we had this discussion in detail in the finance, uh, committee, um, meeting, uh, the three of us was present. And, um, the intent was to, I'm going to use the word deter, um, because we don't have a lot of staff in planning and zoning, but we do have tremendous amount of growth that's going on and inspectors can't stay on sites where we used to be able to walk a builder or a contractor through things.

» We don't have that luxury anymore with staff because of the volume that we're doing. So they need to come out and inspect and move to the next home. Um, and they laid out how they're going over re-inspections. You know, they're, they're, they're viewing some places 10 and 15 times and there's no upcharge. Um, and basically given the contractor, uh, a punch list to go by. And that's not our job. That's not what they're for. And so the intent by the staff and by the finance committee was to double the fees as we come back up to 800, but it didn't get written like that into the ordinance that we pass. And there lies the problem. So finance committee takes wholehearted responsibility for not communicating that clear, but we all voted on the budget up here besides one person.

» I'm gonna leave you out. Mr. Jones, you never vote on the budget. Um, besides, uh, one person, uh, who did not vote on the budget. And, um, I will, as the finance chair, take a direct hit, um, this miscommunication on how it happened. I just thank you for seeing it and bringing it to our, to the light where we can fix it. And right now, even what the intent was with the finance committee does not, um, explain it like that in the ordinance. So we do need to go back and figure out, are we gonna leave it at 400 until the next budget cycle, or is council is gonna get it where the intent really was supposed to be. That is the question that lies here now, but also my question is, is the way I don't feel like a inspection on a foundation is, is the same as an inspection.

» I don't think it should roll over and be progressive throughout the building of the house, because if, if you have an electrician make a mistake and then you have another subcontractor make a mistake, it's like the sin of one becomes the sin of all and good contractors rely on good subcontractors. I agree. We know that and, but you won teams, it's like football. Right. But we talked earlier and we, when someone makes a mistake, right? Well, we, I thought we were on a different page earlier. No, no, we're, we're on the same page and it's up for discussion, but I'm just trying to explain to you the thought of the finance committee when we had this and staff before us discussing it, sending it to council.

» And, and I can definitely understand probably some of the frustrations with some particular builders, but we can't paint a brush over the entire industry because maybe one's not doing the job they should do. There's a lot of great contractors, a lot of people right here from Kershaw County that have built nice homes for many years. And more than likely you don't have as many trouble, as much trouble with, with those folks. But I think a re-inspection is a re-inspection of, of whether it be electrical or foundation. I don't, I don't feel that it's fair that it's progressive and growing. And I feel like $800 is, is really absurd. May I jump, may I jump in at this point? Yeah, I'm not going to say that I'm, I'm done, but yes, Derek, please.

» So, uh, a couple of things, I mean, Sammy hit some of it and there's two pieces, there's two things we're looking at here, uh, in terms of the actual amount of the re-inspection fee. I think Sammy hit that pretty clearly. Some ambiguity staff has obviously went back and fixed that based on the ambiguity. And again, you're talking about, you know, $4,000 over a 12 month period. So we're not talking about astronomical sums. And five of those, five of those nine were, were in fact, track builders. But again, those are being refunded, but the intent was always to go up to 800. In terms of the pieces parts argument, that statute is clear that that's what it is. It's a re-inspection. Now when we reopened the budget, we can have a discussion about amending that.

» I would not be supportive of it, but that's a different discussion for a different day. But in terms of what we passed in the last budget, we passed a fee schedule that said each re-inspection would double. And I would, you know, to get to 400, you've got to be on your fourth re-inspection. And we're in a county where we talk routinely about trying to have positive growth and good growth. And when you've got people that we're having, as we noted in finance committee, 9, 10, 11 inspections, what they're effectively doing is using the county to backstop them. They put it up whatever way they want, and then the county is going to tell them how to fix it. And for a measly fee of 50 bucks, they know what that is, and they fix it. And they just keep calling them out, paying 50 bucks at a shot.

» That had to change. So we had the same issue in the engineering department. We increased our engineering fees because the builders were using our county engineers in lieu of their own engineers. They'd just throw something together, our engineers would come in and tell them what to fix, and they fixed it. So, I mean, look, obviously there's a customer service side of this, and we need to have great customer service. And if there's complaints on that front, that's a different discussion for a different item. But in terms of the legality of what we're doing, I mean, it says re-inspection, they've clawed it back.

» And if we're going to talk about addressing explosive growth, if we remain the cheapest place to build and the cheapest place for re-inspections, no matter what else we do in our ZLDR, if we were a desirable place to live, if we're desirable and cheap, we're going to overflow with residential construction. That's just a fact. I think the fact remains that at the end of the day, it's unnecessary tax on the homeowner that's just trying to afford somewhere to live. I understand the frustration because there's some builders that I prefer other than some of these big national home builders. I prefer their product. But at the end of the day, constitutionally, we can't treat people differently because of who they work for or how they build, whether or not we agree or disagree with them.

» So the fact remains that we have to clearly define what a re-inspection is because if I fail a foundation inspection and the second one's $100 and then we pass it, what would my inspection fee be for the framing at that point, for a first inspection of the framing and rough end? If I had failed one, yes, sir. If you'd only failed one inspection, the next fee would be $100. Well, that would have been the second time that the foundation was inspected, would have been $100. First time you fail, $50 to re-inspect. If we come out again and you pass, then it's nothing. If we come out again and you fail, then the next inspection would be $100. So you're saying the first inspection's free? Oh, yes, sir. All right. Then your first re-inspection will be $50. And then... Your next inspection...

» Okay. Fail it, dollars to re-inspect it. So you're telling me that the first inspection on framing would be free. Okay. I misunderstood you. I'm sorry. So let's start from the beginning. Your first inspection would be for your footings. Yes, sir. If you failed your footing inspection, to re-inspect it would be $50. So you pass it. Okay. Then your next inspection is for foundation. If you were to fail your foundation inspection, it would be $100 for us to come back out and inspect it again, so if you pass it, you go on to rough end. So your second inspection, which is the foundation, the first one is free? After you pay the inspection fee. I think I was saying the same thing, but it looks confusing.

» So the first one in each silo is free? All of your inspections are free as long as you continue passing. So if we fail... If you fail once, it's $50. Okay. If you fail any other inspection, it's $100. If you fail another inspection after that, it's $200. And it keeps increasing as you continue to fail. So the people that paid $1,600 had y'all out there like 20 some odd times? No. Six. Six times. On re-inspections. They had failed six times in order to get us out there at that point. Okay, so... Not necessarily the same thing over and over. Perhaps they failed the footing once, the foundation, rough end inspections. They may have failed the rough end inspection three times. Okay, so... And I assure you they get a list of things. Now, it's like Mr.

» Tucker said, we're not doing a punch list for you. That's not what we get paid to do. We go out there and we find a certain amount of items. We'll list those items and then put you as not ready. We have superintendents who have never built a house before in their life. That we have to train to get them to where they need to be, instead of being trained by their builder. They're builders in another state. So, could we do this? I would ask staff if you could, if you could give us an example and walk through the inspection fees as they would occur if each inspection failed one time and how that would accumulate. So that everybody's singing off the same sheet of music. We understand what to expect. We can explain to people.

» When somebody calls me upset and I'm at work doing my job, I can have something to reference to explain to them this is how Kershaw County inspects. Because when I was in that situation last week, I didn't have that tool. Mr. Brazel, you'll give me a minute. Yes, sir. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, thank you. I'm sitting here and I'm listening to this. And the first thing I want to say is who authorized the fee structure to be set up the way it was. And I know we talked about the big box builders. I'm not in favor of the big box builders who come in here. But, you know, how long does it take to get a permit on the average with the planning department? Three to seven days. Well, I've got people that have been waiting a year and a half, two years. It's a complete application. I'm sorry to interrupt.

» Okay, well, let me finish. Okay, thank you for that. We've got to -- I also applaud trying to slow down the big box builders. But what I don't applaud is when you've got a church trying to build a 20 by 30 or 12 by 20 picnic shed out on Black River Road. This is a historical place. And they've been trying to get a permit for a year and a half. And they still haven't gotten it. And when I go to a meeting in Camden this morning, I have an individual who lives here on his property, building a shed. It's taken two years to try to get a permit. I mean, I can go on and on and on. And, Russell, you know this as well as I know it because you've gotten calls, too, with some of your friends who were building single houses. They were going through Purity, HE, whatever, you know what.

» That's what concerns me. Can y'all come back up? Come back up. I'm not finished talking to y'all. Mr. Jones, I can handle anything. Excuse me? I'll handle anything. Mr. Templer, if they're here, I have the right to question them if they're in this room. I'm not going to have staff here to be -- then you need to have staff to leave. Mr. Jones, can I yield for a question? I'm going to ask Mr. Braswell a question real quick. I want to clear this up. If -- Well, and if I may, I just -- you know, we have rightfully come to a point where we have found some -- a few hitches in what we're doing, and I want the collective leadership to go from the dais to the desk, not to the podium. Mr. You and I have talked. Mr. Yes, sir. Mr. We have. Mr. And I'm allowing you to interrupt me.

» I want you to know that. Mr. And -- but I think it's important because I don't think staff is here to be -- Mr. They're here to provide information, and they do -- Asking questions is providing information, sir. Mr. True, and -- but I don't know the value in taking staff and -- or in this situation -- Well, there was value to have them talk on the other end, but there's no value to talk on my end. Mr. But they're providing information, and that's fine. I just want to make sure that we understand that staff is not here to be anything other than a source of information, and the policies that we have in front of us were created by this body along with myself, and we -- and so it's not their burden to shoulder if we have given them a set of orders that we don't agree with.

» What it is our burden is to correct it up here between the desk and the dais and give them a better set of orders to help them be successful and carry out -- All right, let me say this. Mr. Chairman, I call a point of order. What's your point of order, Mr. Jones? A point of order is that this -- if you look at the rules and regulations with the state, if a county employee is here and they're asking questions, especially of other council members, they should have to answer the questions of the other side. You can't just pick and choose and come up here and say, "Okay, we'll come here and we'll paint a picture like this," when I know there's other stuff out there that is totally different than what we're painting a picture here for. The problem is not just the big box builders.

» The problem is individual builders who build a single house. I know who -- Mr. Jones, I'm just going to try to keep it on top of it. So your point of order was a question about whether or not a council member can ask a staff member questions if they're present in a meeting. Mr. Yes. Absolutely. Is that the point of order? Mr. Yes, I ask you that. Mr. Yeah, I would not disagree and my ruling would be on the point of order that you can ask questions of staff members that are germane to the subject that's probably before the body. The matter that you're bringing up in particular made me think about some other language that staff was going to give us just for context on the point of order ruling.

» In particular, staff and administration were going to give us some language for ease of picnic shelters and pole barn-type buildings. And so that's another matter that's going to come up before council pretty soon, I think. We discussed it in the past on having, you know, not to have to jump through so many hoops for somebody just building a picnic shelter or a pole barn or that type of structure, which is not a true residential structure. But to the extent you have any questions on item 9A, clarification of the inspection fee ordinance. Yeah, you can ask the question. I do think we've kind of beat this a little bit. Mr. I want them to come back up to -- Mr. Do you have any particular questions for them that are on 9A? I think I do, yeah. All right, you can -- Come on back up, guys.

» You can go ahead and try to ask them, and if they're germane to 9A, we can continue. Here's the thing. I appreciate everything you said, and I don't necessarily disagree with all you said. I don't agree with -- here's what I care about, guys. I care about the citizens. I care about the citizens who -- even those who come in here that had to pay fees that I knew nothing about. I knew what in the budget that the finance committee -- Well, Mr. Jones, I would just say that this is the one time that we'll have something in common on the budget. If you didn't vote on the budget in 2024, I wasn't here and also did not vote on these particular matters. I don't think Russell voted for it.

» But if you have -- if you have a particular question for staff that's relevant to item 9A, you can go ahead and ask them. I'm not going to let -- let me just say this. I refuse to sit here and let Councilman Shoemake and Councilman Tucker take blame for this. Well, no, hold on. I'd like to speak. If my name has been invoked -- If my name has been invoked, I'd like to speak here. Sure, everybody will get their turn. How about when I finish? I'll let you talk in just a second, please. Fellas, I think we're going to wrap it up pretty soon. We'll out-beat this horse, because we can't take action on it. But do you have any questions for staff? You've called them up. Yeah, I'm willing to make a motion to end discussion on this issue. I'm going to be second.

» All right, we've got a motion on the table to end discussion for Mr. Shoemake. You got a second for Mr. Tucker. If you don't like what he says, shut it down. Is there any discussion? Well, I would -- I would kind of like to finish wrapping up my request to -- and I can do that to Danny. Or you can make it in your council briefings. I'd like to go ahead and just put it to bed, if that's okay. Mr. Brasley, can I ask him a question real quick? You can ask all the questions you like. I just wanted to ask you one. We've got to say not, Russell. I'm ending, yeah. Please pause. Unless the motion is withdrawn. I'll withdraw my motion in a second. I'll withdraw my motion to let Russell finish. The motion appears to be temporarily withdrawn. I'll second the motion. Withdraw it? Yeah. Okay, second.

» Well, he can just withdraw it unilaterally. Yeah. Mr. Brasley, can I ask you a question? So if we're -- I mean, a re-inspection, a reason for a re-inspection, and it could be anything that has failed, right, and an inspection based upon our building codes. So a developer or a contractor or subcontractor, and a contractor is responsible for that subcontractor that they hired to do the job, that re-inspection, the cost of county going out there, we already -- we hear all the time the lack of resources that we have in planning and zoning, the lack of employees that we have, the ability with all the growth we've gained here.

» Who's going to eat that cost if we don't put it on the contractor that is doing -- that has built homes or may not have built homes in some circumstances, but failed an inspection. The county then comes back out for free. They fail it again. Who should eat that cost? The taxpayer, because ultimately, that's the taxpayer eating that cost, because it's going in to our -- I mean, taxpayer funds for the budget to do. I don't see any reason that -- I wish we would increase it the entire time. Don't cap it out at $400. Every time our staff goes out, I'd like to do a re-inspection fee. But -- So who should be -- that cost is -- you would be okay with somebody having a re-inspection fee of $10,000? If they -- if they fail that many times, yes, because they shouldn't be building homes, probably.

» Facts. At least not here. Well, just to be dead honest with you, we have a lot of those problems. I'm dealing -- I've gotten multiple calls and emails from King -- King Hagler neighborhood down 34, and it wasn't on the actual home building itself, but they're -- the second phase of that development, the end of the neighborhood don't have lighting at all. The beginning of it does. The old phase has zero lighting. So either that was -- you know, we didn't have it in our ordinance to require it. The developer lacked putting those lighting there. But that's an issue that's -- that's going to be coming up. I think I'm going to call a point in order at this point because we're, again, off topic. But it wasn't me. Can I -- can I please finish my request? And -- and I'll address your question.

» Yeah. So, councilman -- Excuse me, Mr. Vice Chair. Mr. Templer, can you have them to sit down, please? Because he's addressing you, so they're just not standing. Thank you. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Anybody else? Right now. Let's wrap it up. I've been trying. All right. You got it. All right. 36 seconds uninterrupted, please. Councilman Thomason, I don't disagree with the premise behind what finance did. What -- what I've requested is a document that clearly explains how the re-inspections work, how each inspection starts and stops, so I can clearly communicate to citizens how Kershaw County operates. I did not have that last week. And if these two gentlemen who know their stuff could provide that for us and then we agree on it and vote on it and solidify it, I would be more than happy.

» All I'm trying to do is clarify, communicate with staff, administration, and the public. That's my job. That's why I was elected and that's what I'm here to do. Not here to fuss at anybody. We can agree to disagree on certain points and that's -- that's always okay. I see both sides and I respect both sides, but I want it to be something that's reasonable and fair and I want to make sure that we're in bounds. And that's all I ask. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. No votes required. I think we've pretty much got that one lined up, right? Everybody's happy? I noticed you haven't asked us any further comments. Well, I mean, unless -- I'm good as long as she may have done the same thing. No votes required and so we can move on.

» I don't even think I'm going to make the comment I wanted to make. Well, please don't. I probably wouldn't, Danny. Chairman, is one point of clarity. I'd like to refer this to the Finance Committee to review after staff gets it ready and then bring it back to council. I think it'll be double referred. Sammy just referred it to himself, but yes, they got it. Thank you. All right. No votes required on 9A. That moves us to item number nine. Mr. Chairman, can I just say something to you, please? Sure. I think Mr. Templer's got things pretty well under control on some of these things we were talking about and I appreciate you doing that, but the topic was brought up and I couldn't let it go without, you know, my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. All right.

» That moves us to item number 9B. I remember this was a carryover from a prior meeting and it was seeking some additional financial information for Finance Committee to review. Did we get to that point? Yes, sir. I'd like to make a motion, Mr. Chair, that we approve the... Sir? Go ahead, sir. That we approve the Dr. Humphreys and Mount Olive project from a couple weeks ago. So that's my motion. All right. 9B, is there a second? I'll second. All right. Should you make heads a second? Yes, sir. If I may. Mr. Tucker. All right. Thank you. So in your package, you did see on each of the minutes, if you went back through, there was the drawings and stuff of this project of Mount Olive and Dr. Humphreys Road.

» We were a little bit concerned on where the pools of money were coming from on this project, since we were talking about projects. So what I would like to do at this particular time is identify that and Mr. Templer can correct me or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and give you all further information. So I don't know who's trying to call me, but I'm not answering that. Give me one minute. I'm going to get in here. You need to leave it and you call me in here, sir. You need to do your own business and stop getting out of mind. That's what you need to do. Now, you're going to make me say something I don't want to say. Mr. Tucker, which sources of finance are we looking for? Please relax. Tell you. Y'all going to make me bust out some Russell moves tonight. I'll tell you.

» Okay, so. I'm not getting caught up. Go ahead, Mr. Tucker. So this project was recommended, awarded to Steed Clearing and Grading and Paving for $429,349.64. It was estimated at $500,000 and here's where the funds have been identified. So the funds for the project have been pulled from RDA, which is a Rural Development Grant of $162,439. ED, which is your economic development, $168,780.50. And then there was CTC has agreed to provide $168,780.50. Now, if my numbers are wrong, staff, please correct me, but I think I'm spot on because I'm getting a buckwheat back there from Jeff. I love the buckwheat, Jeff. I don't do thumbs up. And so that's where the monies are going to be coming from. So it has nothing to do with our capital reserve or anything like that.

» And these monies are available in those departments. Sounds good, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Shoemake, do you have a second? Yeah, those are, just to be clear, those are funds that you got because obviously we tabled it last time. Finance Committee was not able to meet formally, but as I understand it, the administration gave that to you after research since we weren't able to meet. Yes, sir. That's correct. Okay. Thank you. Any other comments or discussion? Yeah. So. Yes, sir. Mr. Grapp. Councilman Tucker and I agreed that we wanted to do some further research on this before we voted because we're still pending some information regarding all of our other projects. We wanted to make sure that we didn't have anything get too heavy handed in these other areas and get ahead of our skis.

» And you feel confident that we're absolutely in the clear. You're our chairman of finance. I feel very confident that the funds have been identified and that they're available and where they're coming from has no bearing on the other projects, nor our capital projects reserves or anything like that. I appreciate you looking into that and taking the time and making sure that Kershaw County's finances are in order. You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Brazl. Any other comments or discussion? I have something I want to say. Go ahead, Mr. Jones. I'm going to support this and I'm leaving it today. I better not. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any other comments or discussion? Mr. Tomlinson. Yeah. Just wanted to clarify, that's a kind of a big difference.

» I'm glad that 429,000 came through, but the average price of all the bids that came in, I mean, if we're looking at it, it's kind of probably, what, 460 or 560,000 out of all of them. Would there be any issue? That's a lot lower than majority of them. So that's a good thing, but just want to make sure that we're looking at, you know, going forward and making sure we can get the project done right. It's a good question. We do have the local option preference, which would not line up with any of the local bidders as I see it. And I would just defer to staff on the vetting of, I haven't heard of any negative history or projects occurring with the proposed, um, awarded bid. That's a good comment, Mr. Chair. That's, and that is a good question.

» That's something we try to make sure that we are not going to go with the lowest bidder and then be change ordered all the way up into the third or fourth bidder. So, uh, procurement does a really good job of checking references and things like that, calling previous projects. And, um, so that is something we, I particularly look for with change orders as I sign them. So to make sure that we're not escalating beyond what, uh, there are change orders due to circumstances that are unforeseen, but this is a pretty straightforward process. So I don't expect anything. Yeah. Just putting in storm drain and resurfacing. Milling and it's just, I mean, it's just something with that's, I just wanted to make sure and make sure that everybody knew that the company was vetted.

» And so I'm glad they came in at the lower number because that helps us and the taxpayers out as long as they do a good job. So thank you, Mr. Temple. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thomas and Mr. Tucker. If I can, um, Mr. Thomas and too, um, you know, a lot of times these, um, different bids that go out depends on how hungry that contractor is too, and what's going on. And I know a couple of the, uh, locals were real busy doing projects already. Yes, sir. So some of those bids look like they don't want to be the award winner. They're trying to build the shelf out of it. Yeah.

» So, and I have done that too in this industry when I did contract work for the state and for the county, you know, you, you want to keep your name fresh into the rotation, but if I get this, I'm probably going to have to hire more staff on and more people. So it's the price is way up here for me to be able to do that and fulfill that. So just keep that in mind. Thank you. All right. Any other comments or discussion? Um, I understand the motion before us is approval of steed clearing to be awarded this grant by Mr. Tucker. And we've got the second from Mr. Shoemake. Yes, sir. Seeing no further discussion, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand. Ms. Hennett's unanimous. Um, passes and we move on. We have item number nine C before us, Mr.

» Administrator, any update before we move this to a voter? Is this just one that you unilaterally just unilaterally? It just, this is a employee relations committee, but it is by statute, our grievance committee voting up. Okay. I think all of us are on it tonight. Anyway, I think council should be listed. Do you have a, you have the names you want to? Yes, sir. Uh, Miko Riddick and Paul Christensen, they are more than willing to serve and their terms will expire in 2027, 2028. So excited to have those two on board. I made the motion. We accept both. Okay. We have a motion. Is there a second? We have a second. Mr. Tucker, any further discussion? I'd just like to say that, uh, that's a, that's a great committee.

» I had served chair on that committee back in the eighties when it was established. And, and, and, and, and, and in all fairness, you've done a good job keeping up that committee and I appreciate it because it's very vital to the staff. You know, you can't go wrong with Ms. Hanna on there. Yes. She's a tool. No question, but she's great. All right. Any further comments or discussion? Seeing none, we'll move to a vote on the two names, uh, proposed by the administrator. All in favor. All right. It passes Ms. Hanna. Yes, Ms. Hanna. All right. Uh, appointments, appointments was on here. Um, primarily just as a reminder, unless someone has something in particular, I just put it on there as a reminder. I've got some work to do, uh, individually on this.

» Anyone else? Um, you know, just remind yourself that we do have, uh, Ms. Hanna diligently sending us emails as reminders on the commissions and boards that need to be filled out. Yes, Mr. Jones. I think you have one on the airport, don't you? I do. Yeah. I've got an individual I'm working with and trying to see exactly what will work with their schedule. I think that'd be a great ad, but that, that will come soon. Um, but just remind yourselves, gentlemen, please check Ms. Hanna's emails and no votes required. And, uh, we don't even move it really into discussion. I just want to have it on there as a reminder. Um, council briefings, we'll start left to right tonight. Okay. Mr.

» Jones, would you go ahead and start us off, please? Again, I apologize for being a few minutes late and, uh, just glad I'm here and, uh, I don't have anything to say right now. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I also apologize for being late. I was running late, um, from work in Columbia. The traffic was a little crazy. That's why I was late. Um, just wanted to, to kind of mention one thing. I had a good meeting with the friends of Goodall State Park, um, last week, sat down for a little while and we had a good discussion. There's been some discussion locally about the county, um, potentially taking ownership of Goodall State Park back from the state. It was given to the state by the county, um, back in the eighties, I believe it was.

» And, you know, that having Goodall kind of transferred back, um, I don't know that us as a county, we even have the, um, economic ability to benefit Goodall doing something like that. But I would like staff, there were some other things mentioned, but I would like, um, Mr. Templer, if you would get staff to kind of look into, um, the process and see if we can look at getting the ownership back of the old Pickett Thomas area, because that, that is owned by the state was given there in the same transaction. And they're currently not doing anything with it. No upkeep, no nothing. So if we got it back, no, no cost to us, they just gave it back us under ownership. We don't have to do anything with it, but it's a potential resource for East Camden and that community.

» Um, especially with all the natural resources, the historical value of it alone, I think that could be a really good opportunity. Both of you wouldn't mind looking into that and just kind of giving us an update on the process and seeing if that's something that we'd be interested in doing. Hmm. Yeah, the old Thomas golf course. Yeah, the old golf course. Um, the one that used to be the free golf course. It's a historical, historical African-American golf course. Um, but yeah, I played out there when I was little. And I actually agree with him on this. That means he thing, but thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you. Um, Mr. Kato. Well, I ain't really had a chance to talk. Just me and you, you other than running the meeting. Um, it's been a good night, Mr. Kato. Yeah, it has. Love you, Danny.

» Kind of like about all the other arguments. I just don't get to say nothing. Um, I hope my wife isn't. Anyway, you better get in trouble. You better stop. Um, you know, as far as this goes with the, and I'm going to put my quick two cents worth in on these fees, if you want to call them fees, you know, I, I agree. I'm, I'm very interested to see the schedule. I, I, I'm, I'm with Russell. I want to see it broke down and brought to us as to how the fees work as far as, so we have something physically in front of us. I'm pretty sure I'm 99% sure I understand it. And I agree with it because we can't, we can't allow our taxpayers to have to foot the burden for our people going out 15 times to inspect something that should have been done in five or six. So I'll leave that there.

» I thank Russell for bringing that to the forefront and let's, let's make sure that we get this straight. Um, secondly, um, I do want to, I do want to say something about staff. The past couple of weeks, I've had a lot of stuff that I've had to bring to staff. There's been some things that, um, had to get straightened out, some things that just weren't quite right. And I want to commend them for working with me and with the citizens of the county to make sure that this gets done. I'm not going to go into any further detail because it doesn't need to be in any detail, but, but I thank you, Danny. I thank you and your entire staff. It wasn't just you. It was, it was several people, but I thank you, um, for what your staff has done.

» Um, lastly, real quick, um, I see we've, we've got something here from the Alpha Center, and I just want to give a shout out to the Alpha Center. Um, I serve on the opioid coalition and currently David Rhodes is over that. He is, um, unfortunately, I think he's fixing to vacate that position and someone else is going to take over. I think David, um, I think Kevin has done a outstanding job and I had a meeting with him, um, last week and there's, there's a lot of good stuff going on at the Alpha Center. And I just want to give a shout out. I know, uh, Mara, Jimmy's wife, and she don't claim him, but this Jimmy's wife, and he's very careful not to say too much because, because of her. But they do an outstanding job. She told me not to say anything tonight.

» She does an outstanding job and so does the Alpha Center. So I just want to give a shout out to them tonight. Other than that, I hope you have, all have a great weekend. Thank you, Mr. Kato. Mr. Brasel. Thank you, Chairman. Appreciate, uh, the discussion. Uh, Danny, I appreciate your helping address the, you know, the small amount of confusion that we've now gotten squared away with, um, the inspections and looking forward to seeing kind of how that, how that resolves itself and just understanding it better, making sure we're all on the same page. Um, you know, I appreciate everybody's involvement. Everything that we do, we, we do together for, for the betterment of the community.

» Um, there's obviously always varying opinions as to how we get from point A to point B, but I think, I think we do it, and we do it well. I want to read something from a, from a devotional. I found this in my dad's truck, maybe a year ago, and I, and I don't get to read it every day, but I was able to share it with Councilman Tucker today, September 9th, titled Suffering. And it states, "It has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him, but also, also suffer for his sake." And that's Philippians chapter 1, verse 29. Um, and it goes on to say, "The tendency of this age is to question the Lord's goodness in the midst of suffering." Yet, from a biblical standpoint, suffering is the means by which the Lord conforms us into an image of the Son.

» When bad things happen in our lives, may we not ask, "Why me?" but rather, "What are you teaching me?" If in Christ there is no condemnation, then the suffering we face is not necessarily God's judgment. We can be assured that for those who love God, all things work together for good. For those who are called according to his purpose." Um, and there's a synopsis here at the end that says, it's a prayer actually. It says, "Lord Jesus, forgive me for pursuing my comfort over your glory. Teach me how to walk in your obedience, even if it means I must endure suffering. Help me to suffer well for your name." And what that means for me is, we all make mistakes, and sometimes that's just the good Lord whipping us into shape.

» I've been through it, and I'm sure many people in this room have been through it. Um, I just, that, that struck me today is, is uh, relevant to, to life in general. And I've said this before, if anybody, you know, ever wants to talk about the faith in, in Jesus Christ, whether you have it or you don't have it, I'd love to talk to you. Um, some of the best growth I've ever had in my personal life is when I was down and out and my tail was cut. And that's just a fact. So that, that hit me today, and I wanted to share it. And, um, that's all I have. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Brazel. Mr. Tucker. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I got a few things, so bear with me. Okay. I won't be long-winded though.

» Um, Finance Committee, I still stand on the fact that we take full responsibility for the fees and the misunderstanding. I will not take that back. No one can convince me because when you're put in roles of responsibility and things don't go as planned, you need to be man or woman enough to say I error and we error, I error, however you want to put it, we will get it right. I can assure you that. So the fees and the projects will have a report next council meeting. This body, this Finance Committee body will meet before then, maybe a couple of times with staff, and we will have a report on both of those for our next council meeting. We good with that, Mr. Administrator? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm good with that too, Sammy.

» Um, I want to, um, just brief, because I think the chairman's going to speak on this a little bit. Um, told you that we had a Zoom call on the 208 water quality plan, which is Lake Watery. Uh, that meeting went well. Um, we're still in discussion and, um, I will have to be, uh, trying to have some conversation with my, uh, colleagues and staff on, um, what all took place at that meeting. Um, the COG will not meet till the first Monday in October. So we have a little bit of time, but we running out of time because time moves pretty fast. Um, but it was a very informative meeting. Um, and I can say this for a fact, nothing that this entity does is beyond taking capacity from Kershaw County, city of Camden, or, um, DuPont, who also dumps in the river.

» And I think those are the three entities, Mr. Templer, that I can think of now because we take walk Kim's stuff now. So, um, so with that being said, it will not affect our capacity. It may, depending on what happens in the upper Catawba Watery Basin affect how we treat, which can affect costs. But I won't go into all that tonight. Um, there was a lot said on that conversation on that, uh, uh, conference call and I'll allow the chairman to have his, uh, intake on that conversation. Um, I want to tell you where your monies go, um, when we go to these conferences, because I have a colleague that sits to my right and he's like a brother to me.

» I think of all these gentlemen as brothers to me, but this one gives me a hard time for no reason, but I still love him and I'm his mother's number one fan. So that's all that matters to me. Um, I have in my hand, the institution of governments for county officials, level one, um, presented to Derek shoemate in recognition of completing, uh, 27 hours of formal county government institution leading to enhancing knowledge and understanding of the county government and the role of the county officials. This is why we go. This is huge because, you know, when you go down there and you learn from the people who are the experts who teaches these classes, and then you have your other colleagues that's from around the state, you know, no wheel should be reinvented.

» It just should be greased and all very well so it can go around a lot smoother for you because I can assure you how the 46 county, the things we do in this county, they're not unique. They're not unique. Someone else is either doing it or had a problem with it. So I say to you, my brother, congratulations. I could teach that. I could teach that class. Um, with, with that, I want to talk a little bit and, um, I normally don't end on a sour note, but this is not a sour note. Um, councilman, vice chair, Russell Brasel, thank you for reading, um, that devotion and thank you for catching the thing with the fees as well. But, um, I have to say this because if not, there's a thing called omission that you can get in trouble for too and y'all know what I'm talking about.

» Um, we do have home rule and I'm a big component of home rule and I'm a big component of, um, of having our staff support and coming up here. But at no times on this diocese are we to parade staff. Staff does not work for us. We have one man that works for us and one woman that works for us. That is the administrator and that is the clerk to counsel. Make no mistake about it. And I'm going to tell you, I was sitting here just thinking to myself, if I was in those gentlemen's shoes, what would I do? And if my mama came out of me, I probably would have stood up and been just as humble as they were. But if my father was coming out of me, you probably would have got the worst look and I would have sat down like a doggone donkey and would never gotten up and stand back up to that podium.

» That is not our job to parade staff. And a question is not a statement. I don't know how we get this confused as human beings. A question rates an answer because you state something that is not the time for someone to sit there and listen and hear you. They can hear you from anywhere. But if you have a question, then respectfully, they need to answer the question. And so, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to ask you in the future, when these things happen, without me having to call a point of order, can you please, please redirect the conversation? That concludes my report. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Shoemake. Yeah, just a couple of things. By the way, Brandt got one of these too, but Sammy doesn't snoop in his box, so Brandt doesn't give the accolades. Andy showed up. That's for coming late.

» That is true. I snoop in Brandt's box though, so it's a big circle. So Councilman Cato stole some of my thunder. I also wanted to thank the Alpha Center, this community event they have coming up September 12th, celebrating those in recovery. As somebody who does some work with various folks in the community that may be falling on hard times, it's part of my regular job. The Alpha Center has been invaluable helping those folks. And I'll tell you something else people don't realize. They do a lot of work too, with young people over at the high schools. You know, it's a tough time for some young people. You know, we've had just at Lugolf Elgin, you know, some teens take their own lives in the last couple of years, which is absolutely tragic.

» And they offer some mental health counseling, and I know that in the wake of two of those suicides, they did some counseling for some of the teens. So they do a massive, massive service. Definitely, while I love my friend Councilman Jones, definitely Mara Jones is the best Jones. She does some great work. Also, I want to echo Councilman Tucker's comments that he's probably to blame. Agreed. But I'm kidding. We do. We take this, you know, the Finance Committee meets and does this. And obviously, if there was a confusion, I certainly take the heat. But also, to echo Councilman Brasel's comments that, you know, clarity is always good. And when you see passion, you know, it comes from a place of, typically a place of love and deep caring.

» And so while my friend, Councilman Brasel, I may have some passionate discussions, it's not vitriolic because we both care a lot about this county. He knows a lot about construction that I don't. I know some things about the law that he doesn't. And so usually, we find a pretty good place together on that. So I appreciate these discussions. Lastly, Ludolf Elgin had their homecoming this weekend. They won. I think they're two and one, if my memory serves. And my daughter served in the homecoming court. And it was an absolute pleasure to walk her there. She is a graduating senior. So next year, I will have two kids in college. And I can tell you, you know that I'm an ethical practitioner of county government, because if I was ever going to take a bribe, two kids in college. But I will not.

» Where are they going to school? College of Charleston is where she wants to go. And my son's enrolled in Clemson with Russell's son. So. Go Tigers. Go Tigers. I say that for my son. I'm a game guy. Councilman Shoemate, would you do me a favor? Sure. I appreciate you clarifying the fact that we do get along. But would you not use words that I don't understand, please? Which one? I can't even repeat it. Oh, vitriolic, probably. Yeah, yeah. Angry. So not only does Councilman Shoemate have a certificate that he gained from going to the Association of Counties, the man teaches law at the University of South Carolina. He's brilliant. Don't let that be the biggest light shown on him. I'm going to introduce some words we all need to understand tonight. Let's stay on task. All right.

» Get through your briefing, Mr. Shoemate, please. Here's the last thing I'll say, Mr. Chairman. You know, whatever we end up doing on all these issues that impact the county, you know, certain people aren't going to be happy as certain people are. You know, if 75% of this county approved of what we were doing, we'd be the most popular political body in all the United States of America and probably the world. And that would still mean that 20,000 people hated what we were doing. Well, we're not that. Oh, no doubt. So we're working hard to do it. And, you know, just because, you know, there are always going to be voices that have negative feedback. But I'm confident that this council has the right reasons in their heart for what they're doing.

» And I think they're trying to do it the right way. What's the old saying? The right thing for the right reasons in the right way. And I think that everyone up here is endeavoring to do that. That's all I have. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. I'll just say thanks to our Clerk of Court and Judge Hardest for being here tonight, along with those who stayed throughout the meeting and those who attended earlier for the topics that were important to them before they had to go. I appreciate you being here. That means a lot that you stay involved in the community and in local government. I want to thank Mara Jones as well for many of the things that she does at the Alpha Center, but in part because she exercised proper etiquette on t-shirt size. She gave me a 2XL and I noticed Russell got a...

» I didn't get a 2XL. Maybe yours is mine. I only got an XL. Well, maybe that's a message. A message. Anyway, thank you very much, Mara Jones, for recognizing my broad shoulders. What about being on topic? That's right. And last one, I'm going to diverge. I have to because this job often requires sacrifice from family time. I congratulate my daughters, Annabelle and Alexis, on winning their volleyball game. They apparently had to beat the ref tonight. I've been getting the play-by-play, but they did pull out the win. So I'm sorry I missed your game, girls, but I'm very happy that you worked hard. So that's how you let us ramble, right? All right, so that concludes briefings. Mr. Administrator, do we have anything other than what we need to talk about in executive session? No, I promised Mr.

» Jones I would be briefed today, so I have no report. Okay. Mr. Turney, nothing other than executive session? All right, gentlemen, we have on item number 14, we've got five executive session matters. Two are regarding matters subject to attorney-client privilege. We have two personnel matters, and then another matter subject to attorney-client privilege. All of these are under SC code 30-4-70 and the related subparts. I seek a motion that we enter executive session. I make a motion we enter executive session. Second. Mr. Cato. And we've got a second as well from Mr. Tomlinson. Just for purposes of discussion before we vote, no votes are anticipated tonight after executive session. Any discussion? See none? All right, all in favor? We are in executive session. Ms. Hannes, unanimous.

» So moved. All right, second? Second. All right, all in favor for exiting executive session? Ms. Hannes, unanimous? We're all here, Ms. Hannes. We're out of executive session. Motion to adjourn, Mr. Chairman. We've got a motion to adjourn, and a second? Second. Mr. Cato gets a second. No discussion. All in favor of adjourn, raise your hand. It's unanimous, Ms. Hannes. We are adjourned.