Machine transcript of the county's live stream. Each » marks a change of speaker; the captions don't say who is talking, and names are often misspelled. For the readable version see the recap; the official record is the county's minutes.
» realtor that sold the mission live as well. Oh, I hadn't heard about any of that. Mhm. What? You know about it? Okay. Yeah. Oh, really? I did. Okay. Well, say you go. Is this on number one? Y'all good to go? Thank you for being present tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, if I could have your attention, let's call the meeting to order. This is the Kershaw County Council meeting for Tuesday, May 27th, 2025. Thank you everyone for being here tonight. A lot of interest in the agenda tonight. Glad to have you here. Uh we've been called to order. Next up, we have an invocation and pledge of allegiance that we've led by Councilman Derek Schoemaker. Mr. Schoemaker, thank you. Let's pray. Lord, please watch over this body as we conduct the business of the people of Kershaw County.
» And Lord, please watch over our hearts and minds to make sure we do those things that are wise, those things that are fair, and those things that do the most good for the most people. And lastly, Lord, uh we obviously have a lot on this agenda and please let everyone remember that those things that bring us together are far more important than those things that divide us. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Mr. Sheumake. That brings us to the next item on the agenda, which is adoption of the agenda. Do we have any motions? I'd make a motion that we adopt the agenda, Mr. Chairman. Is there a second? Second.
» We've got a second. Any discussion? I have an amendment. Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the county council. I'd like to amend the agenda to delete the U FOI requirements. Discussion by Jimmy Jones at this time. That's deletion of item 7A. Is there a second? Second. We have a second. Any discussion, Mr. Jones? No, we'll take it up at a later date. Okay, seeing no discussion, all in favor of the deletion, raise your hand. Miss Hannah, it's unanimous for the record. In favor of item 7A is deleted. We've got an amendment on the agenda. Any further amendments? Seeing none, we'll move to vote on the agenda as amended. All in favor, raise your hand. Miss Hannah, it's unanimous by those who are voting. All right.
» Now that the agenda is approved, uh we've got two items that we're going to move to um after public comments. That's going to be item 10B and item 11B. That is register of deeds recommendation by the administrator and Kershaw Health District uh appointment for district number four. and we'll proceed to that point. We've got um public comments up next on the agenda. Mr. Dose, excuse me, Mr. Chair, did you say E D? Yep. Uh excuse me. 11B and 10B. So, both B's. Got you. Okay. Any other questions on the agenda? Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Deose, public members of council, we have 15 public speakers signed. Uh 30 minute limit divided by 15 is 2 minutes a piece. First speaker is Helen Crowley. Okay. Cost. Thank you. And I just remind you, please be respectful of other people's time.
» We've got a 30-minute a lotment. Look forward to hearing from you. It's not a time for a question and answer, but a time for council to hear from the public. Yes, ma'am. Please go ahead. I'm Helen Cwley from um the city of Camden Kershaw County. Growth does bring money and with enough money we can build more schools, more fire stations, more police substations. But Can we build a freshwater supply? Just where will the water source be? Lake Watery is our primary source at present, but Charlotte plans to use more of the upper Kava River system water. At present, Lake Watery has a known algae bloom problem that will affect our water quality and volume and trees.
» Just where are the trees? We have a large tree canopy in Kershaw County at present, but trees disappear when land is strict or development. Pictures of these large developments do not reflect tree placement. Will there be enough room for large mature trees? At my age, I won't live long enough to see trees mature. The cycle of nature needs trees to help produce and maintain water resources. Each of us must have water to survive. Roads. There's no room in the city limits to expand our transportation systems. In the county, there is room to build roads if money is available. But where's the plan? Yes, we will grow as a county and a city, but we need a wellthoughtout plan with very specific guidelines that protect our history and provide for a gradual planned growth that is sustainable.
» Continue the moratorum until a comprehensive plan is developed and implemented. Thank you, Mr. Co. [Applause] Mr. Deose. Next speaker is Ted Brunson. Subject is growth. Mr. Brunson. Good afternoon. Somebody had to do it, so I'm gonna ask. Who are in favor of more hearing? Point of order, Mr. Chair. Mr. Jones has a point of order. Point of order takes precedent. Yes, there the speakers are addressing us, not the audience. Agreed. And public comment, Mr. Brunson, please. One moment. And while I generally like clapping or we're a very tight schedule tonight and we have um and this doesn't eat into your time obviously. Yeah.
» Um but we're on a very tight time schedule tonight with a lot of people who want to speak and so aides to the audience or otherwise just delays in the time that someone else might be able to speak or in keeping staff after hours. I granted they signed up for the job but if we could if you could direct the comments to um and I see a couple of you smiling. If if you could direct the comments to county council that'd be great. We'd love to hear from you. Not a problem. Use the mic. Yes, sir. I was going to say use the mic, too. There you go. Okay. Yes, you can start the clock. Thank you. I'll keep it short.
» Um, in looking at the moratorum and in looking at the comprehensive plan, there was an old saying, my dad always used to say, there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to go back and fix it. If we take this next six months and the council both with the city put their heads together, I think this is something that's very doable for the future, the next 10 years before we have to look at this again. So, we now have the opportunity. This is the second largest turnout that I've ever seen and I've been to a lot of these things. Um, so this is how important it is to the county and I think you've got to look at everybody and in extending the moratorum I don't think we're infringing too much on the property rights and I've I've actually spoke on both sides.
» Um, you know, it is important to to maintain those property rights, but it's also having to look at what the Senate uh concurrency bill of uh S2 227 is is up in front of the state. You know, all of these things are designed to help y'all plan and help us benefit this going down. So, with looking at that, what I'm going to respectfully ask, and it's based on people on the council right now, uh, that, and again, respectfully, Mr. Connell and Mr. Shoemate, as real estate attorneys, um, y'all have the opportunity to benefit from continued growth. So, again, I'm going to respectfully ask that y'all recuse yourself and not vote on this matter. And that's the only thing I've got to say. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Brunson. Mr. Deose. Next speaker. Next speaker is Mike Burkott. Growth. Mr.
» Burkott. Good evening, sir. My name is Mike Burkott. I've been a resident of the county for going on eight years. Uh, I'm in support of the six-month mortorium on all major developments until such time as we have have a coherent action plan of what we want Kershaw County to look like and having the infrastructure to support growth. We are in this mess now because of poorly planned or articulated needs or requirements from your predecessors and their lack of planning for infrastructure growth. The airport discussion over the last year is just one prime example of lack of planning.
» During this moratorum, I recommended the comprehensive plan be reviewed with the development of annual action plans to address the concerns of the public including the preservation of culture and history of the city of Camden and all of Kershaw County. This is historically an equestrian community. Horse racing, steeplechase, fox hunting, polo. We need to preserve this heritage, the preservation of open space in all of Kershaw County and the practicality of solar farms in Kershaw County and their impact on the land. Bottom line is we're not creating any more land, but there are acres of parking lots that can use to host solar farms, provide shade and rain cover, and this is includes both public and commercial uh parking lots. uh reutilization of abandoned or blighted properties.
» You know, the the county can take action to uh against abandoned or blighted properties for public use. Taking in the totality of circumstances, uh power, water, sewage treatment, traffic, infrastructure are needed to support the growth of the county. Right now, uh the the data for that should be publicly available and displayed so it is understood what the actual capacity is. posted and updated regularly. Currently, I have concerns that regarding the validity of the data, how it's used or tailored to affect decisions regarding county growth. Uh impact of growth on schools, buildings, classrooms, faculty, staff, bus routes, bus drivers. Do we have enough of each? How do we recruit and retain them? We can't do it by hiring them to work someplace where they can't live.
» And for the sake of time, I'd like to just highlight to the to the uh to the uh to the body that the the county vision is to find the the right balance between growth and preservation to become the future generations what what the future generations deserve and if you Mr. Burkott if you could please for a residence. Thank you. Thank you sir. Appreciate that. Mr. Dose next speaker is Michelle Sanger. Miss Sanger thank you. Good evening. I am the United States Polo Association delegate for the Camden Polo Club. We are celebrating right now our 125th anniversary with polo here in Camden and also with the United States Polo Association. As a delegate, my responsibilities to this club are significant and I'm honored to have them.
» The one thing that I want to bring to you all is that Camden Polo, this Camden Polo started again last year with a neighborhood with a fox hunt and now it has moved to over 70 participants. Those participants are wanting horses. Horses in Polo is unbelievable how many horses you need. Um I came from Garrison Forest Intercolastic Polo. You need an arena for youth, junior, and collegiate polo. We had 25 horses on our string. In the University of Virginia, they had men's and women's polo, which extended to over 60 horses on our string.
» Right now, our members are actively buying horses, looking to buy horses, and looking for practice facilities and a some sort of a place for them to be without torturing poor Kirkwood Polo Field, which we put, excuse me, we put a lot of money into um preserving that. So coming to you begging for the moratorum to pass, letting us take a long hold, a deep seat, and let things sort out within the county so that we can move forward as a community and have a wonderful legacy reestablished. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Sanger. Mr. Deose Barbara Tati, I believe last name. Apologies if I've mispronounced. She'll give us the pronunciation. Taji. Taji. Miss Taji, please. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the council. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is Barbara Taji.
» I've been a member of Kers member resident of Kershaw County for over 20 years. In my opinion, based on my personal experience as well as information that is readily available. Some of the large-scale highdensity developers use predatory and opportunistic practices. In Kershaw County, they've taken advantage of weak and outdated zoning laws, an outdated comprehensive plan, limited infrastructure requirements, and an understaffed planning office. They have exploited loopholes, created infrastructure strain, degraded the environment, and displaced lowincome families. all while having very limited if any long-term accountability. Growth in general when done well is very beneficial. It adds value.
» But our current comprehensive plan, lack of thoughtful land use and zoning ordinances, and lack of truly transparent development agreements will simply not allow for thoughtful value added growth. We encourage you to support the moratorum, take a pause, gather the facts of this new reality for our county and for our state and guide, manage and nurture the good growth that our residents deserve. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Ted, Mr. Dose. Next speaker is Linda Canatzer. Miss Katzer. Yes, ma'am. Please. Chairman Connell, if you could pull the mic down, please. Just chairman Connell.
» Council members, first I want to thank our Kershaw County Planning Committee for their hard work and dedication on the airport overlay, the comprehensive plan, and the temporary moratorum which they expedited so we could come here tonight before you. When I didn't attend some of their meetings and workshops, I always followed them online just as I do with you. Most Kershaw County residents already agree that we don't want and don't need the mega developments that will bring nothing positive to our county.
» Now, what are we going to do about it? What are we going to do about it? We can either talk this problem to death or put in place this temporary moratorum to give us the time needed to go through the process of developing a comprehensive plan and ZLDR that will hopefully be a good solution for our future. Ideally, I would love to see a permanent ban on these mega developments, but in the meantime, let's get this short-term fix in place. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Gater. Mr. Deose, next speaker is Lynn KTO. Miss KTO. Yes, ma'am. My name is Lynn KTO and I want to thank Councilman Jones and Brazle for bringing this to the agenda today. A moratorum is a legal means for local government to address infrastructure and needs within our county. It is legal. It can be done.
» I'm going to introduce something called a never settle mindset. This means high standards for housing, refusing to accept mediocrity, and growth is coming. So what are we going to do about it? We need time to plan. I'm asking you to vote yes for a temporary moratorum which is a legal way to prepare for this growth. It is not a taking of somebody's property. It is a means to address things that are concerning the community as you see behind me. This gives us time to create a legal capital improvement plan, complete the Kershaw County comprehensive plan, address infrastructure such as water, sewer, emergency services, roads, schools, parks, recreation, and protect green space. We can also look at impact fees that will address certain or specific needs.
» More than two dozen South Carolina governments have implemented fees to protect their infrastructure. What about us? It's time to draft amendments for subdivision standards that protect them and match the charm of Camden and Kershaw County. No more cookie cutter homes. We We know Charlotte is planning to do a water grab. Are we ready? I don't think so. Water is a necessity. Never settle. Give our local government and planning commission time to write smart, measurable, and achievable goals for builders in the future. Our local economy depends on it. Require vegetative buffers and don't allow developers to destroy the natural beauty of Camden and Kershaw County. Stripping all the trees is not okay. Kershaw County residents and council should never settle. Mr.
» Miss Kto, if you could conclude, please. Okay, you know that 14% of our population has grown. We're the sixth fastest growing. Nationally, it's only 29%. That's scary. Please vote for a moratorum. It's only pausing for 6 months to complete the comprehensive plan. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Miss KTO. Mr. Deose, next speaker is Dose Mortorium. Miss Dose, my delivery is not very good right now, but I'm going to give If you could speak into the mic, Mr. Bose, so we can hear you. Um, I had a bit of a head injury in October, so my delivery might get off focus. Not off focus, but anyway, I think we'll be okay. We're happy to hear from you. Thank you.
» Over 50 years ago, my husband Charles and I moved to Camden because of family, its equin and sporting presence, historic significance, and gentle quality of life with his career in real estate. I urge you to vote yes to a moratorum on multifamily housing of not more than 10 houses for the following urgent concerns. Complete the comprehensive plan in its entirety. It still needs a facelift. Implement guidelines protecting our citizens and vintage infrastructure by creating well-thoughtout solutions to our rapid growth. Address detailed studies on aging infrastructure, traffic, critical critical services such as police, fire, electrical grid, water and sewage.
» With increased traffic, are we adequately prepared for floods, which we'll have, fire, which we'll have, and power, more power outages. Do we have we asserted evacuation routes in view of all this? Implement ecoin overlays and historic ecoin agricultural overlays as Edgeville County has brilliantly done. Boyin area in Camden Training Center and Camden Hunt country. Address guidelines for alternative electricity and study their deadly impact on birds, wildlife, soil and water toxicity and disposal concerns. Let's keep up with the following counties in Kershaw in South Carolina enacting moratoriums for the reasons described previously.
» Jasper County, Horry County, Lexington County, Pickkins County, York County, Charleston County, Aken, Berkeley, Bufort County, James Island, and John's Island have enacted moratoriums for seven years. Mr. Bose, I'll just let you know your time's expired. If you could please conclude whenever you're able to wrap. We appreciate greatly your time and all you do. We voted for you all as advocates for responsible growth, not cookie cutting houses without trees and buffer zones. People with all will always gravitate to Kershaw County if we're careful and prudent in future planning. Ben, you need to read Edgefield County zoning plan. Kershaw County must strive to keep its identity. We're about to lose it. Please take more time. Get it right with the help of your citizens. Vote yes respectfully.
» me. Thank you, Mr. Bose. Mr. Dose, Thomas Allen, zoning 1045 Highway 1. Mr. Allen, present. Coming up. Yes, sir. Mr. Allen. Good evening. Good evening. First, I have some pictures. If it'll be okay, I can leave them here. We might be able to look at them later. Um, if you want to leave with administrator. Yes, sir. Mr. Allen. My name is Thomas Allen. I moved here about six months ago. My wife and I. We work over in Hartsville, but we wanted a country setting. People told us to go to Camp Cassid this direction. Most of our friends are in uh uh Colombia. So, with doing that, we found a spot over off of um Highway One. This is about the reszoning of a uh residential area into a business area for commercial use. And when we came here, what we looked for a country setting.
» That's what we found. Now, next thing we know, we have trees falling down behind our house. And I was told before a zoning could be granted or before anything could be done, the land and everything had to be left as is what I was told. Now I may be wrong. I may have read that wrong. But everything is the land has been cleared already. Then the question I asked myself was has this already been approved or were they just anticipating that they this was going to be granted? So all I want to bring up is the area there is very country but I was told that it was for the expanding of a business. When I came to the zoning committee hearing I was told that this is supposed to be for a sawmill. I don't want a sawmill behind my house.
» The the trees that's been cleared I can see all the way through to the Dollar General store now. I was supposed to be a barrier. There's not a big enough barrier, thick enough barrier. So, I'm asking that this let us not be able to allow to go through. Thank you. Thank you for coming out tonight, Mr. Allen. And the pictures I have there are pictures of the land from the front, the back looking through. Okay. That the land is cleared. Thanks for leaving those. The administrator will have them. Mr. Deose. Next speaker is Laura Bowen. Mortorium. Miss Bowen. Good evening. Um, I have a letter here. This takes me about four and a half minutes to read, so I'm not going to read it. If I can, I have seven copies if I can leave these with you guys. But, um, it does speak on the moratorum.
» And I just want to say that my family has roots here in Kershaw County since before the founding of this county. And I hope that you read this letter and please take it into consideration and feel free to reach out to me. I would love to have a discussion. And uh that's it. Thank you, Miss the administrator will be able to grab it. Thank you, Miss Bowen. Mr. Deose. Next speaker is Ron Cooper, Growth and Housing. Mr. Cooper, good evening. Uh council members and the public. Uh my name is Ron Cooper. I've been a resident here since 2016. Uh like some of the others, I I'm not going to echo what everybody else said and I haven't prepared anything.
» What I would say is I would challenge the council to be true to yourselves to be good stewards of the land and of the resources that we have available here in Kershaw County. Uh I am for the moratorum and two things that uh I don't think anybody else has mentioned. The growth with that growth comes crime. Okay, we don't have the infrastructure currently. If we get the crime, we we don't we're not prepared for that as well. Um, so I would ask you to consider that and I know that you've got a difficult chore and I just hope again that you would be good stewards and uh I support the moratorum. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Cooper. Mr. Deose, Amanda Uten, I believe this is speaker number 12, Miss Utton. you getting ready to fight or something? No, sir. Giving a message.
» Um, first of all, I'll I'll thank you all for uh having us here tonight. I know it's a busy schedule, so I'll get right to it. Um, I know you're on the second reading of the budget, which is a big deal. I thank you for the additional time that you are taking and the attention that you're putting into that. I know that you want to take as much off of the taxpayer as you can. I I I ask you for consideration of the taxpayer and the uncertainties that lie ahead. Uh pre the president's big beautiful bill has not yet passed. If it doesn't pass, it's a 25% increase. So please consider that in your budget talks. Uh we are seeing a relief in the cost of living and inflation. Our state legislature is finally approving tax cuts to benefit the taxpayer across our state.
» But what benefit does that does that do us if we absorb it in our c in our county budget? Um the property tax reassessment is right on the heels of this of this uh approval of your budget. So I ask that you consider that as well. that there's unknown benefits as only this is done every 5 years. Um I stand before you to ask for consideration of these impacts of these unknowns when you are completing this budget. Therefore moving on to the moratorum. I am in 100% support of this me uh moratorum planning and zoling they're recommended that we have that we approve this. This is their lane. I think that we should support them.
» Why else would we have them in those positions? Um the 180day moratorum in conjunction with the property tax income that we are unsure of uh with the influx of residents. I ask it with the 180 days will allow us for the dust to settle and to see where we really need to put that responsibility on our taxpayers where their funds are needed. So I ask you to look at the budget this year and to uh do a bare minimum if possible uh increase and re-evaluate in a year. Um the fact is these uh we are a uh soft spot for the and a target for these um for these I'm sorry I had a longer speech prepared. I didn't know it was only two minutes. If you please wrap it up. I I will I will. So you have another budget coming on your desk in a year.
» So I ask that you give the taxpayers of Kershaw County a little relief to see where the dust approved the 180day moratorum. Let us see where we stand after this tax reassessment property taxes in the in the summer and see where we fall and then fill in the gaps in your next budget. um so that we don't put so much on the taxpayer and also not um impact fees but developmental fees on these larger uh on these larger buildings, these uh companies that are coming in because they're not spending their tax money here. They're taking it in other places. So I ask that you um be considerate of the budget, consider the 180day moratorium. Yes, ma'am. We we get that. Thank you very much, Miss and then let's see where we go from there as far as what the taxpayer should be uh responsible for. Thank you.
» Thank you for the message, Miss Mutin. Um Mr. Deose, Aldum Dunlap is the next speaker. Growth, Miss Dunlap, please. Chairman Connell and Council, thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to you. And while it's a little bit more brief than maybe we had planned, I'm thrilled to see a room full of citizens that are concerned for our future, um, I don't want to echo every single thing that has already been stated, but I saw a quote earlier today, and while I can't tell you who said it, it spoke volumes to me, so I would like to share it with you. We're growing faster than Greenville by percentage. The only Midlands County in this elite growth bracket. That acceleration deserves deliberate data-driven pause to realign infrastructure and finance.
» Now, we know that you guys are getting ready to look more at our budget and first off, thank you for taking the time to do that. I ask that when you do that, you consider each person not only in this room, but in your neighborhoods, but more than that, the ones in your own home. I have a little different perspective. I did not grow up in Kershaw County, but my family chose 20 years ago to come here, my husband and I, to start our family, to raise our family here. I grew up in Armo, and I've told my own mother, there is not enough money in the world to make me move back over there because it has changed so much. My hometown doesn't look like my hometown. I don't want my children to say that when they grow up.
» So, I'm asking that you please allow this next 180 days, take a pause, evaluate the best way for our county to grow responsibly. No one is against growth, but we need to do it responsibly. So, thank you so much. Thank you, Miss Dunlap. Thanks for coming out tonight. Mr. Deose, just as a brief clarification, um Linda um caner was listed twice on this list. So, there the final speaker. Yes. Ken Cau algae lakewater reef Mr. You said top cough k Mr. off. Yes, sir. Please. Okay. You might have to bend down a little bit. I'm sorry. It doesn't get a microphone. We didn't get We didn't get the extension for you. Is Ken Coh. I live at at Lake Watery and I've lived there since 1995. And I'm here to discuss Lake Watery Association's request for funding to treat lingia algae at Lake Watery.
» LWA's proposed lingia treatment program is based on experience and proven methods developed and refined at Lake Gaston in North Carolina and Virginia. LWA has proposed funding by sharing costs from surrounding counties, water utilities, Duke Energy, and South Carolina state agencies. LWA has taken on the task of surveying the lake to document Langia presence using volunteers trained by Duke Energy weed control personnel. LWA has enlisted the assistance of Dr. John Rogers, retired Clemson professor with extensive experience with treating lingia in southeastern United States lakes. Dr. Rogers will direct the technical aspects of the treatment program. Lake Watery is a great place to call home, but also a resource to share with others.
» Lots of people visit the lake to boat, to swim, and to fish. Lingia is a threat to this resource. For now, I'm fortunate to live in an area not choked with lingia, but I know of areas close by with serious lingia infestation. I don't fish at Lake Watery, but I have talked with serious bass fishermen there. They tell me some of their favorite spots are now choked with lingia. Cast your line there. Pull in a wad of green slime. No bass are going to inhabit that area. I have a neighbor around the corner with a serious lingia infestation. uh her grandkids have developed skin irritations when swimming around the dock. Dr. Rogers talked about the rate of lingia progression and the need to be proactive. The longer you wait before treating, the more lingia will take hold.
» Waiting to treat will add to the overall cost of treatment. I hate to think that we miss this opportunity and look back in a few years and realize our mistake. For all of these reasons, I highly recommend that you act to include provisions for contributing to the Lake Ordery Langia treatment program in the upcoming budget. Thank you. Thank you for coming out tonight. Mr. Co, Mr. Deose, anyone else signed up? There further speakers. All right, that concludes the list. Thank you very much, [Applause] everyone. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to the next item on the agenda, approval of the minutes. Is there a motion? Make a motion that we approve the minutes as submitted by Miss Hannah. We've got a motion. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Kato has a second.
» Any discussion from anyone? Seeing none, we'll call it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand in support. Are you absent? I was absent. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Jones abstaining. It's a Miss Hannah for the record. All in favor with Mr. Jones abstaining due to absence. Thank you. Thank you. The minutes are approved. Uh that takes us to item number 10B in the agenda. Uh register of deeds recommendation placed on the agenda by Mr. Templer. Mr. Templer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of council. You have before you um a a register of deeds position that will be vacant um soon with uh the retirement of our current register of deeds. What we have is a uh this is a unique position to fill. Uh it is statutoily required to have this individual live in the county. Mr. Temple, let me just clarify.
» Is this for information only or are you looking for a vote? Um this will be for a vote for y'all to u to approve. Okay. I was just going to explain a little bit. Let's go ahead and get a motion in a second so we can put it on the table. Mr. Chairman would like to make a motion uh to approve the county administrator's recommendation for our register and deeds department. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second. We got a second. It's on the table. Mr. Templer, please. Thank you. So much like the the position of the clerk council, the administrator goes and does the initial search, but the council approves that that hire as well as this one here. So, um, with Billy retiring, uh, we haven't had to do this. I think she's our first ever register of deeds.
» So, uh, unique experience here going through this. We have a individual I would like to present to you, uh, Miss Kelly Josie. She has 20 years of experience. Um, she has a thorough knowledge of the real estate title industry and she has worked really close with our current staff in our register of deeds office. She comes highly recommended. I had several uh attorneys reach out unsolicited to and just say, "Hey, you know, we'd love to see her over there." Um, and I think the most ringing endorsement was Billy herself saying, "Hey, this just puts me at ease knowing that this individual is going to I know Miss Billy has her retirement party coming up. That's how many years was she with us?" Forever, 40, like four decades. Yes. Yes. Is Is Miss Josie here? Just so we can know. She is. She is.
» She's at somewhere in the back. In the back. Smart move all the way in the back. But if you like, she could come forward if you have any questions for her. She can introduce herself. But um you I highly recommend we bring Miss Josie on board. Um she's very familiar with staff over there. Staff is excited, current staff is excite excited for her to come on board. So Okay. Um I'll leave any questions to council if you have any and I just want to make sure uh with Mr. Deose that we're not stepping in on any contractual matters or anything like that. Not to my knowledge. No. Okay. We'll see where the questions go. Any questions from council at all? Mr. Mr. Jones, we we did advertise this position. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay.
» Any other discussion or questions? Seeing none, would she like to come up and introduce herself? Yes, please. If she wants to. It is a packed house. I got the haircut now. Yes, Miss Josie. Hey, I'm Kelly Josie. Have any questions? Pull the mic down, please. Well, Mr. Templer mentioned um I I'll hazard one since you came up. Um he mentioned 20 years of experience. Could you tell the council just a little bit about your experience? Yes. In 2005, I started a title company and we grew from two people. Uh, um, at one point it was about 20. So, I've had a, um, history for the last 20 years of working in every register of deeds, um, in North and South Carolina. I'm familiar with all the systems. I know most all the abstractors and people that frequent the offices, uh, the ladies that work there.
» It's just something I'm good at and something I know. um records, uh real estate records are important and it's important that they be precise and um I think that I'd be the best fit for that. Thank you for that response. Any further discussion or questions? I have one question just to make sure we're statuto straight. Welcome first of all and thank you. I I like your energy so you'll fit good with Miss Billy's left off. She's very positive, very bubbly. Um Mr. Templar, I think this is a position that's statutory, you or Mr. Deose, that this individual lives in the county. Correct. I do. And you do? I do. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Is that all? Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Any other questions or discussion, council? Seeing none, um, thank you very much, Miss Josie. Thank you. Uh, Mr.
» Templar, any other summary needed before we call it for a vote? No, sir. Okay. Thank you. We'll move it to a vote then. All in favor of approving the administrator's recommendation of um Miss Josie, raise your hand in favor. Miss unanimous and congratulations, Miss Josie. Thank you, Mr. Templar. Yep. Thank you. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to the next item number 11B. And that is assuming um I'm not sure if was it Mr. Augburn. Yes. I'm not sure if he's present in the room. I can't see everyone or if he intended to be here. Oh, there he is. the chairman hiding in the middle. Okay. Lot of faces tonight. So, um we're on 11B and this is uh district 4. Mr. Jones, you have a motion. Right.
» You know, I had the privilege of uh well, I've known Daryl for many, many years, and I had the privilege of help getting him appointed hospital board. Of course, history tells it all if you do it. Daryl, you've done a great job. And you know, he's he's now in the position that they've accomplished when the car wing moved. They've accomplished quite quite a bit, but they've got a little bit more to do. And I think Daryl needs to be on board to see that through. So that's the reason I'm going to ask that we extend his time. And he is my motion to fill that vacancy just to continue on his work that he has done over the last 10 years. I'll second that motion. Yes, sir. Mr. Jones, we've got a second from Mr. Shoemake uh from council. Any further discussion? Congratulations, Mr. Agburn.
» He's uh been a dear friend and mentor of mine and um I definitely agree with Councilman Jones that his leadership is critical at this very important stage on the board of the Health Services District. Thank you, Mr. Shoemaker. Any further discussion? Any questions? We should go ahead. I No, I was just going to say I think we should probably clarify there were some questions regarding term limits and um I'm happy legally uh we are able to reappoint him appoint him for another six-year term. Correct. Yes, sir. Yeah. Yeah, he's not a hold of it. So, I just wanted to clarify that because if somebody watched last meeting and and then this meeting, they may be confused, but we did gain clarity and um Mr. Agman is a good friend and we do support him in this role. Mr. Mr. Tucker, you yielded.
» Go ahead. Thank you. Um can't see Mr. Dogman. He's not much taller than I am, but um Darl, I just want to say thank you for all the hard work you've done. you've gone through um this uh new health service district that we have, the old um Kershaw Health Board um trying to keep our hospitals open and propped up and where we could have services here locally. And I say thank you because those challenges weren't easy, but it's not one day that you sat down and said, "I quit. I give up. I don't want to do this anymore." for and for a man to uh glutton for six more years of punishment, we are happy to give it to you. So with that being said, congratulations. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. And in closing, um you have anything? Welcome back. I just I just want to thank Daryl for his service.
» U a lot of good things are always said about him from the other people that serve with him. So thank you for your service. Amen. Thank you, Mr. Kato. Um Mr. Mr. Auburn um is dangerous to ask him to say anything and so I won't as a as a long time longtime politician. But if he were to get up, I'm sure he would give credit to his board and his staff and the team that he works with in stabilizing the health services district, bringing them to a financially sound place and having a bright future uh partially at Beachwood and in other locations in the county. And so with that, if there's no other questions or comments, we'll move it to a vote on Mr. Jones motion. All in favor, Miss Hannah, it's unanimous. Congratulations, Mr. Auburn, and thank you, Mr. Jones.
» All right, with the amendment to the agenda, we had uh item number seven deleted. That takes us to public presentations. Item 8A, South Carolina Center for Fathers and Families, Kerry Edwards, who's the president. Can we get a motion? Make a motion that we hear the public presentation. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Is there a second? I'll second. Mr. She makes second. Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir. Please. And I noticed you left some materials up here for us. Yes. Okay. Provided you all with our impact report as well as some items from the South Carolina Center for Fathers and Families. My name is Kareem Edwards. I'm the president of the South Carolina Center for Fathers and Families. And members of the commission and members of the public, I thank you for this opportunity today.
» I'll have you know that every morning in the state of South Carolina, there are 382,000 children who wake up in a single parent household. We know that most of those homes are headed by women and their father is not only not in the home, but not in that child's life. Now, South Carolina ranks 40th among all states. That's an improvement from the last few years from 41st. But none of us should be content. We appreciate the improvement, but things need to be better. Uh, as a parent, I have two spoiled brat daughters. Two daughters don't come with a users manual, and having two parents in the house is fulfilling, but it's not easy. But studies show that a child who grows up without the father in their life have more challenges in life.
» And on the flip side, children who grow up in two parent households perform better in school. They resist drugs at a larger rate. They don't have the same number of behavior issues. And other improvements to the community are attributed through the presence of a father. At the South Carolina Center for Fathers and Families, we work with DSS and other partners in all 46 counties throughout the state. Midland's Fatherhood Coalition serves this area and we work with fathers to improve their relationships and co-parenting. We help them improve their parenting skills. We also help them with financial literacy, physical and mental health, and other individualized services such as custody issues that they may have. uh paternity and things of that nature.
» But why I am here today is to ask you all to issue a proclamation to declare June fatherhood month to elevate fatherhood. Uh there's a the funny part of the story is is Mother's Day always happens before school is out and there's usually some school activity where they make uh flowers or something to take homes to mom. But Father's Day is usually that first or second week into the summer and the school infrastructure isn't there to provide attention to dads. But the real story is is that we have to recognize the importance and the significance of fatherhood. Not just in the family, but in the community. In communities where there's only one father in the neighborhood, that one father is usually the basketball coach or he's the person playing catch with kids in the neighborhood.
» And that's an impact on other kids beyond kids. just in that family. So, every year at this time, we ask communities to pass proclamations just to bring attention to fatherhood. And I'm asking you to join the governor as well as other counties throughout the state to elevate fatherhood. And it is no uh no strike against moms. It's an acknowledgment that moms need the help, too. and they need the help from the fathers uh not only in their homes but in their community as a whole. So on behalf of the center for fathers and families and the children who will benefit from having their fathers in their lives if not in their homes I beg of you to please consider issuing a elevate fatherhood proclamation for the month of June this year. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Edwards.
» If you would hold the podium we'll see if we have any comments or questions from uh council members. Members, if I may, Mr. Tucker, I won't be long. Um, Mr. Edwards, I was just checking on the back of this pamphlet that you issued. Where are you located? You got satellite offices all over South? Yes, we we uh cover all 46 counties. Midlands Fatherhood Coalition covers the whole Midlands. So they have offices in uh Lexington County in um Aken opening soon in Orangeburg, but they cover all the counties out of those uh hub offices and we consider all the outreach counties quote unquote spoke areas. Do you guys partner? Because I went through at one point when my kids were younger um a fatherhood uh coalition through the United Methodist Conference Church.
» So do y'all do anything with some of the churches? We have various partnerships throughout the state in each area. So there's a possibility. We have numerous partners through the Department of Corrections, Department of Veterans Affairs. Uh many of our organizations were either founded in churches or headed by pastors. So there is uh quite possibly that relationship, but there are numerous other relationships as well. Well, keep up the great work. We thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Any other comments or discussion? Any other questions? Uh, appreciate you coming out tonight. Um, Miss Hannah, if you would just please circle up with council members on anyone who wants to put their name on a potential proclamation perhaps for next meeting.
» And I just wanted to mention one of the great milestones for for fathers and their engagement in your life is uh some of the recent graduations we've seen. Mr. Jones with master degrees with his son heavily involved in his life. Mr. Shoemaker with his son going on to college. Mr. Brazzle with his son going on to college. You've got great men up here on this dis uh who are very involved in their children's lives and I congratulate them on that milestone and uh I'm glad that you're bringing attention to this issue. Thank you and thank you all Mr. Chairman. Mr. Tucker um can I ask for the record that uh myself and Mr. Sheay be put on the sponsor that proclamation and we may need some content from you Mr. Edwards. So make sure we have your contact information. Yes.
» Miss Parlor's got his information. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Edwards. Thank you all. Thank you Mr. Tucker. father of the year next to me here. I agree with Russell's father. Gentlemen, that concludes public presentations. This takes us to a first reading under ordinances 9A. It's related to an amendment of a 3.75 acre parcel came uh to us from the planning commission with a 52 vote and the tax map number is cited. Any uh summary that we need at all in first reading? Don't see any for zoning here. It came as a 52 in favor of vote. In favor of I'm just wondering do we have any uh summary coming from planning and zoning staff? If not um we'll move it to a motion. But do we have any background or summary? All right. Somebody might not have some.
» I can I can volunteer that the um at least on the vote I'm aware that the two negative votes were concerned about the fact that South Carolina doesn't have conditional zoning and that any of the allowed uses in that general development district would be allowed if this property were reszoned. Um other than that, um not a ton of articulation of the pros and cons at at planning commission. Could could we have uh the land owner and his uh translator come to the podium, please? I may I'm super sure. Um good evening to everybody before we go much further. Get it on the table. Yeah, we got to get it on the table. So, someone making a motion. Um I'll make a motion. Mr. Brazzle makes a motion. Is there a second? I will second the motion. Mr. Tomlinson second. So, it's on the table. Mr. Brazle.
» Thank you. I' I'd like to hear from uh you as far as the type of sawmill. We heard from the other gentleman and his concerns and of course, you know, we we respect um his his viewpoint. And so what we'd like to hear is uh what size sawmill because a sawmill can be a small portable band mill or it could be new south. And those are two totally different things. I actually personally have known Himeay for like 20 years maybe and he operated a sawmill in Boyin from Mr. Alan Wooten and um it was of the smaller capacity. So could you elaborate on um what type of sawmill it is and if it's portable or stationary and uh it's actually portable. Okay. So you can take it everywhere. He was doing it in the work zone but he was told not to do it anymore. So he ceased of doing these things.
» So that's why he got the lot to do it. Uh what we asked is to convert this to a commercial that will bring develop it to the county and also it can be requires for him to work in some time of the day. We don't want to work you know in the middle of the night and make a bunch of noise to the neighbors because that's not the purpose. So, we want to respect the neighbors, but we also want just to work and be able to do what he's, you know, able to do. That's he's been doing for a long time already. So, um, what is that? A wood miser like a LT40. So, so is it uh runs on electricity or diesel fuel? So, that's a it's a portable mill. So, Mr. Mr. Brazzle, if I could, if you're going to comment and speak, just talk into the mic so we can have a No, I blow English.
» Well, I heard him speak in English. It's broken. It's good. If it's good enough for me to understand, it's pretty good. So, he says it's a portable. It's something that he It doesn't connect to electricity. It's diesel. So, it just work with um like a little diesel tank. Would you say that? get the diesel. Yeah, it's like a diesel tank and then he just pou it and works it up. So, it's really something really small just to transform the wood the trees into wood. So, it's something really simple that he does. Um, Mr. Brazzle, if I can ask a question. Yeah, sure. Thank you. Um, now is that going to be outside looking at the pictures or is that going to be encased inside of a building? Um, well, depending on what you want.
» If you want him to have a building to be inside and to be a for him to be able to do this, he can do that for you. Once again, it's about regulations from you. if uh if you want allow it just to be outside that can be the case too. So what what are the and I know this is kind of a technical question but what are the decimals as far as the sound um that that produces cuz it looking at it and I apologize this is the first that I'm seeing of it but um trying to look at the acres it's 3.25 25 acres 3.7 3.75 acres. So it's a small acres and you have surrounding residents. Um so basically the noise that it generates is like a mo land. It'd be the same as a as a tractor or or something along those lines is what what you're saying.
» It's something that's super small like somebody's mowing their land. Mhm. And is it one? Yes. One um single. And do you have plans to then um buy another one um to expand? He just wants one for now. It's just just one for. So potentially um it could go to expansion if it's allow it. If it's, you know, too much of a noise. Well, we can stop there. But right now he's just thinking on having just one small one which is what he has right now. Um and then you mentioned hours of operation. Um just looking. So what what is your planned hours of operation and is that or I'll ask my next question next. It can be the 825 you know just like a normal regular day office hours. Mhm.
» Um and for staff is that some so hours of operation is not something that can be regulated based upon uh an ordinance or reszoning. Correct. Could we say in general development that you're allowed to operate between certain hour and certain hour? So as part of this resoning ordinance um no the specific rules of hours of operation for GD for this particular use type. I'd have to research in the ZLDR or get um some staff guidance on that. Yeah. But, um, that's certainly something we could get back to council on. Um, yeah. I mean, just for first reading purposes, I I love having people who come in and and want to build a business uh and a future because that that is what it's about, but it's also about the um surrounding land owners, too.
» and having, you know, we can't control up there and we shouldn't be able to control the hours that you operate your business because I, you know, working, you know, in in my industry, there are times where I'm working until 2 3 4:00 in the morning because I have a time crunch. Um, I I would would be more open to having um a building and you being inside of a building so that can control um the amount of volume that's going to be to surrounding residents for nuisance purposes. Um if that be something we could be open.
» I'm not sure if this could be included in in this, but um I I appreciate you bringing this to me and with it being first reading um alone and we heard the gentleman's um concerns and those are valid concerns and I think this being first reading, I would like to learn more about it because it sounds to me um with the future to expand. Um that kind of scares me. So, I would, like I said, I would prefer this being inside of a building where it does not hinder other uh surrounding property owners because that is something of concern to me too, but it's also a concern um and it want to for people to have uh the ability to grow and expand. So, for first reading, I will be supporting it. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Mr. Schumake, you have Yeah.
» Um, so I don't have any questions, but I just want to flag a few things for, you know, because I think we're missing the broader picture here. One of the reasons I was concerned when we resone that Dollar General property is exactly what's happening now. The only reason we're not dealing with spot zoning is because we reszoned that parcel to, I believe, the South uh GD. Yeah. To the South GD to make way for that Dollar General or because council did that back in 2015. We did a different one. But so you've got you've got otherwise other than this GD uh to the south you have this uh you know rule zoning which is our most restrictive zoning going to our least restrictive zoning.
» The fact that it is a small mobile sandmill gives me even more concern because that means he could decide next year he doesn't want to do this. The zoning stays in place and someone could put a slaughter house there. Uh because that is GD. I mean GD is our most anything that is allowable is allowed under GD. So, literally, if he moves out next year, somebody could put a slaughter house there, liquor store, uh, anything they want. A liquor store, I mean, anything that fits inside a GD could go there. We can't regulate ours. We're only reszoning. We'd have to change the whole zoning structure. So, while I respect the ingenuity, and I get it, there's no way I can support this. The whole point of these zoning districts is for it to be rural.
» We're about to have some some spirited words, I suspect, about the fact that people want a rural way of life. And then we do these one-offs. And this is part of the problem. And I'll talk about this later is we're kind of doing this patchwork quilt approach to zoning and that's not working. We need a holistic fix and these one-off spot zoning fixes cuz it's great for him and I think he's going to do the right thing. But what happens in two years when the business doesn't work and then a lesser a less scrupulous developer wants to come in and put some really nasty business back there. We can't do anything about it. So for that reason I can't support it on this reading or any other. Thank you Mr. Shemake. Any other questions or comments for council? Yes, Mr. Mr. Mr. Tucker.
» Um Tori is the last name. Um my my question is um when you purchased this property, were you of the understanding that this was already commercial property? So it was announced as a commercial property and the the so the owner of the land was the owner of the uh house next to and he was announced it as a commercial too which to my understanding he sold that house and now it's just residential but it was announced as a commercial. Did you have a realtor helping you? Uh so I'm the realtor and he bought the property by himself. So he didn't check the you know the zoning at the time. So he just invest the money and he was told it's super easy. Just go to planning and zoning and then you can convert it in and commercial. So right now we're here. That's the reason.
» If it was that easy this room wouldn't be this full. Trust me. Exactly. Exactly. So you know mistakes are made. We just trying to fix it and help him fix it. So, I I'm going to say just my opinion, and it's not worth a lot to some people, but it's worth a lot to other people, um, is to see can you probably uh find you another piece of land and get your money back that would be in the proper zoning because I'm with Mr. Shoemate. I can think the world of you and if you decide to change your mind, which is legally okay that you can do if the business fails, anything goes wrong, who comes after you? Because here's what I can tell you. None of us is going to live forever. Property will be here forever, but none of us is going to live forever. And I just stood up and listened to Mr.
» Allen in public comments. And he has valid concerns about his property, his privacy, his his peacefulness that he moved here for. So, um, I would have to at this time uh let you know that my vote will be a no tonight. Yeah. Um, thank you. If I may. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Um, yeah, Mr. Brazzle, you be next. I I I'm complete. You done? Yeah, Mr. Tuck is done. Mr. Brows, go ahead. Um, so couple of things like I definitely see both both viewpoints, but um who told you to stop using your portable sawmill on your property? county. So, the county uh it was a complaint for one of the neighbors that was trying to sell their house and they were like, "Oh, it's too noisy." So, the the county came and say, "You are not supposed to do this here." And he stopped doing it.
» So, you complied with someone pretty easily and and stopped. Yep. Yeah. Is it legal? So, yes. Yes. Um, Mr. Deose, is it legal to operate a farm sawmill on a piece of property zone uh rule RD1, RD2, whatever his is? I think it would entirely depend on the reason that that um sawmill was being used. um whether it's commercial or purely personal and there's some other nuances but um you know without having all of the specific facts of this I I wouldn't want to venture a guess as to the legality or illegality of of using that saw on a residential property. Woodmiser is a tremendous company. They have a big display in Germany right now at a show called Ligna. They sell these portable sawmills all over the world. People use them on farms every day.
» That has absolutely nothing to do with the reasonzoning. But I'm here to say if he was asked to stop and he complied in good faith, do you think the county acted in accordance to the written ordinances that we have? So again, I don't have all the facts of this, but um I know the gentleman referenced uh land clearing prior to the reasonzoning. Um I believe that in and of itself is a grounds for a stop work order. All right, hold on one second. Yeah. Hi, may were you clearing land or you just cutting timber? Were you digging stumps and pushing dirt or just cutting timber? He was just cleaning. All right. So, clarify for me.
» Were you just cutting the tree down or were you digging the stumps up and grading? So he does grading and all the stuff that came from there he used to bring it home and just use his saw to actually do the I don't know like oh the loads of the wood or so he was just transforming it from whatever he was grading or he was paid to grade. So that's all he was doing. So you're like clearing lots and doing that sort of thing and then you're utilizing the wood instead of wasting it. Exactly. And so it's a very intermittent thing. And we there's several people in the county that have done this and done this for years without any issue. Um I know several of them personally. I don't know that he needs to reszone his property to resume what he's doing.
» May maybe you can't clear your property and grade it um without a land disturbance permit, but these are two separate things because forestry in the state of South Carolina, the cutting and harvesting of your own timber is perfectly legal. I graduated Clemson in 2000 with a degree in forestry. I can assure you cutting timber on your own property is legal. Um now, clearing it and grading it, maybe you have to have a land disturbance permit, maybe you don't. depends on if it's um if it's rural or if it's how it's zoned. It will be tougher to do if it is general development. So, only because it's coming with a 52 recommendation to reszone and we reszone property next to it for a large mega corporation will I support this tonight.
» And I think I know your character and um all of the worst case scenarios probably won't happen in his lifetime. I I know that down the road something could happen. Um but I I know for a fact that we had two business owners in the last 18 months on Highway One in Casset have their property reszone without question. So, for those reasons, I will support it tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Mr. Tomlinson. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and I I would like to just remind my colleagues that this is first reading. This is something that I've just seen. I don't know about Mr. Basel or anybody else on here. This is something that I have just seen. I would like some time to to do a little bit more research. And I am for entrepreneurs.
» I am for someone who wants to do better, but I'm not at the will of putting that burden on the next property owner. You know, there there's a fine line in between this all. Um, and that's why I will be supporting this tonight. This is first reading. I heard the gentleman in the back. we have the opportunity to get more research and I would like to um be able to talk to y'all personally to find out more information cuz we have reasoned a few properties not too far down the road from there um for other reasons and if this is something that that could be helpful, you know, there's no reason to to go into somebody's pocketbook for somebody who's going to do something good for the community and for the for their family.
» Um now if you're looking at maximizing that property for a huge operation that's going to then be a huge burden on that adjacent land owners um at that point that's another discussion but from the conversations I'm hearing I just ask my colleagues to keep this in mind this is first reading um we have two more readings after this and we we you know would like the opportunity or I would personally um to just learn more about it and I will be supporting it on first reading. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Any other comments or discussion from council? One more question. Minister Brazzle. How many years have you resided in Kershaw County now? How many? So he's been living here for 24 years and his business has been operating since 2016.
» So it's not something that we're just, you know, flipping a coin to see if it's going to work. He knows how to do his job. We're just asking for an opportunity to keep growing. And uh for the record, I knew about this whenever I walked through the door and I saw him. So I had no prior knowledge at all of this situation. So thank you, Mr. Browser. Mr. Ko, one question. What I heard you talk about clearing and cleanup? What is his primary employment? Is it land clearing and cleanup or is it the sawmill? No, no, no. just his primary thing is clean up the property. So if a builder wants to build subdivisions, who call? This man. If you want to, you know, clean your you want to have a patio now, who you call? This man. And he does a great job. He has done it in my house.
» So So he So then, and I'm just clarifying, then he takes the lumber he can salvage or the trees he can salvage. He brings them back. He saws them up and make boards and he sells them. Yeah. Okay. Well, as my colleague here said, this is first reading. I can support it on first reading, but there's there's there's some more that I want to hear. I want to hear some more details about this in the future, but I'll support it on first reading. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kato. Any further comments or discussion? I'll just close with I can support it on first reading as well as my general practice on resonings to give the property owners an opportunity to discuss and u and figure out there's some way to work through it. In the past though council cannot mandate or require this at all.
» People have reached deed restrictions or other things that uh limit in some way the zoning that might apply and that might be tolerable for the neighbors. And so um want to give you an opportunity to discuss further and again I'm researching it myself. I called you and we spoke briefly today in my um in my broken Spanish and your broken English trying to understand exactly what the issues were and so I think it merits a little bit more discussion. Um but again that that doesn't promise my support on second reading. I just have to get more educated on the issues. Any further discussion? Okay, let's move it to a vote. All in favor raise your hand. We've got Brazil Connell Tomlinson Kato in favor. All those opposed Joan Schumick and Tucker opposed. So it passes first reading. Thank you.
» Thank you very much. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to item number 9B, first reading of title only. This is related to project NAM. Do we have any uh staff summary at all? I have Mr. Burgess here for this if you have any questions in particular. Mr. Burgess, could you give us just a a brief summary? I don't see Mr. Burgess. He may be outside in the hallway. We do. He's outside to make way for uh citizens's folk to sit. Well, do you want to peek out and see if Mr. Burgess is or have one of the staff members take a quick look for Jeff Burgess? He's coming in. There we go. Jeff, I know you're making uh space for folks to sit down and be present. Thank you. So, um we're just getting a brief summary before we get a motion and a potential second on Project N. Project NAM.
» Uh, Project N represents a $12 million project uh uh with the expectation of hiring about 50 people in new jobs in the county. Uh, they'll be going into an existing structure which they will be looking at, I believe the ordinance states, for a textile site, uh, which is reuse of a property. Okay, thanks for that summary. Is there a motion? Make a motion that we approve first reading and title only. All right, is there a second? Second. We've got a second. Motion, Mr. Tucker. Any further questions, comments, or discussion from M Tell Mr. Burgess, thank you for your due diligence and hard work as always. Keep them coming. We'll do. And Mr. Burgess, the primary thrust of this, even though it's on first reading, is for SSRC credit. Correct. Okay.
» Um, I'll just highlight uh before we vote on this that the economic development office and council overall. Thank you for your support, gentlemen. between laser form at 16 million, Luckstone at 25 million, uh project NM at a proposed 12 million, and then Camden Copper, which saved jobs essentially at the old Denkai building. We've had quite a bit of economic development interest that gives um jobs like this one, 50 jobs that will be created locally for people to to work and hopefully um stay here instead of the brain drain we see with a lot of high school seniors, some of our best and brightest, um go somewhere else where they can work. We like to keep families together if we can. Um, any other comments or discussion on first reading? Seeing none, all in favor vote.
» Miss Hannah, it's unanimous. It passes first reading. Thank you, [Music] gentlemen. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to item 9 C, second reading on an ordinance provide for the budget for um the upcoming fiscal year. We add first reading on April 22. Is there a motion? I make a motion that we approve second reading of our 2526 budget for Kersaw County. Okay. And is there a second? I'll second. Mr. Tucker and Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Tucker, you have the floor. Uh thank you. I just want to say um from the finance committee uh thank you uh thank you for staff.
» Uh this budget that is presented in your package is um a budget that has four meals increase uh some fees increase and um I won't go any further more detail other than we have worked real hard because I know that there's some amendments to it and then I'm happy to discuss anything in further or answer any questions. But um at this time I'll yield to any amendments. Okay. Thank you Mr. Tucker. Mr. Kato, do you have any motion? I do. I have a have an amendment to the second reading of the budget. First part of my amendment reduces the millage increase from four to 3.5 mills with half or.5 of those meals going to solid waste.
» The reason for me wanting to decrease to 3.5 mills is that this would be absolutely no cost to the taxpayers due to um the local option sales tax and we have a reimbursement on that this year. So we can raise our meals to 3.5 meals and it will be absolutely no increase to the taxpayer. The second part of this is reduce the solid waste fee from $32 to 2670. Third part is increase the fire budget by three meals and decrease the fire fee that's proposed from $45 to $17. And this will I just want to say the reason I'm bringing this amendment is is I I want to make sure that if that's the motion, we just got to get the motion. Yeah, that's I'll second. All right, we got a second for Mr. Tomlinson. So now you got the floor. Go ahead.
» So I just want to say that that I I bring this because everybody looks at us really hard on on doing the best we can to save taxpayers money. I have to pay these taxes, too. So I want to make sure that we get the most bang for our buck. And unfortunately with the economy the way it is, the way things are now, when inflation goes up, it doesn't just go up for for the consumer and for the citizens, but it goes up for the county and it goes up for the state. And I just I have attended several of these f not on the finance committee, but I've attended some of these meetings and I've asked a lot of questions and um based off what administration is telling me and what I'm finding this this is a a I think it's a really good budget.
» I do um want to encourage administration to try and work further to see if there's anything that we can do to lessen any more of the blow on any fees that's being increased. And uh they agreed to do so. So they're going to diligently work between now and third reading to try and get that taken care of for me also. But that's my amendment. Thank you, Mr. Kto. Mr. Thomas, you have the second. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I I appreciate all of your hard work, Danny. Um, and I know Mr. Connell has been been putting in on trying to make an amendment to be able to lower uh the amount of mills. Um, and and the fees the fees directly impact a property owner. Um, no matter what your budget is, a mill is spread across every single person and does not increase as much as a fee.
» A fee is a very hard number. And just to be clear, um, you said the solid waste fee would go down. That is that is basically what the solid waste fee is now to what the the increase was. So that that's the increase. The increase would then go down. Uh, same with fire. Um, and to talk about fire specifically, and I said this in our budget meeting. I've said this to every single council member up here. Uh specifically um in my district alone um in Antioch, we have probably the oldest fire department. We don't even have a full-time firefighter in Antioch. And Charlotte Thompson and Antioch alone are the second largest number of calls in Kershaw County. You have and that is to the other side of the river, the the Elgen area. That is the number one.
» Our rural community in Antioch and Charlotte Thompson are the number two as far as calls and that a lot of that has to do with the interstate, but our first responders are very very important. We've done a lot for the sheriff's office. We now it's time for us to to really nail down and make sure that our homeowners are protected, our fire is served because if not, we could sit up here and say all day that we're not going to. I mean, we right now we have Lugall Fire District asking for a mill increase um to come forward, which I am supportive of, I think, and it's on the backs of all homeowners specifically because if we don't do this, our rating is going to go up and your insurance is going to go up. So, you're going to feel this one way or the other.
» And increasing this over mills is something that I'm I am very supportive of. I'm glad that staff has put together um alternative options because I don't like increasing the fees, but we're in a situation where we have to do this. I appreciate you, Mr. Kada, for putting this amendment on the table. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. We are on the K2 amendment still. Any further discussion or questions? Yeah, a couple couple questions regarding the amendment. Just to clarify, you want to go from for the general budget or the general fund to 3.5 mills. So, a half a mill reduction. Um, and and the reason for that is because if it falls to 3.5, that way with the um local option sales tax reimbursement, it will be no cost to the taxpayer.
» And and that's if we go above that, then we don't get the total reimbursement. And and and I remember last year being very similar. or I think it was three mills and I think my tax bill went down $2. So, I I I did research that and um and and I don't disagree with that. Now, what was the proposed solid waste fee? The proposed increase was $32, but that would come down to 26.70. It was it was 33 and 32 32 and 2670. 2670. Okay. And then the fire I thought we were maxed out in the county's fire budget from millillage. We have 3.3 um of increase maximum for county fire according to staff what we received in the budget presentation. Okay.
» and and we get on three of them taking not and it's and I I think an important point to that is if we increase the millage the millillage will continue to grow and the fee if we increase it the fee amount we would have to take away those three meals we'd have to increase the fee up to about 45$46 uh extra a year so the millillage would actually drop this fee down a $17 increase and the meal for the fire service would actually grow in years to come. So the proposed fire fee was the new fee was going to be 125. Is that right? The increase was going to be 45 and it'll come down to 77. So it's going to be 80. So it's going to be 97. Um I like the direction it's going. Um, I'd like to dig a little deeper. I was um I don't I don't know that I need to do that right this minute.
» Uh will we have more time to dig into the budget after this amendment? Chairman, you've got um it's for a later agenda item, but yes, we're looking at third reading ACU uh occurring on June 17th, cancelling the June 24 meeting uh due to summer travel schedules. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I mean tonight like I don't I don't I don't want to spend all the time tying up his his amendment vote is is what I'm saying. I mean, as long as we're on this agenda item, we can discuss it and then of course in council briefings or otherwise, you can discuss as much as you want to. So, prior prior to this vote, I I don't want to hold up your vote, Danny. That that's what I'm saying. But there there are more before we vote on the budget, the second reading, I'd like to have some more discussion.
» Is that fair? Yeah, there's opportunity for other amendments or discussion prior to the final vote. We'll be voting on as amended at some point. Uh hopefully not too late tonight, but yeah. Okay, then. Any further discussion, Mr. Brazle? Not at this point. Okay. Any further comments, questions, discussion, gentlemen? Um, one thing I'll bring up for the public's benefit on the fire mill. This is something that we've been working on for a long time. As Kershaw County has grown some and as people have had jobs outside the county, we found that um our professional s fire service, the volunteers uh often worked outside of Kershaw County. And so you would call 911, you'd ask for um you know, come my house is burning down or I have an emergency.
» And some of these folks would work in Richland County, some in Lexington County, some in Florence and otherwhere. And they'd have to ask their boss, you know, can I take a moment off? I need to go and respond. I've been toned out and however long it takes you to get to that call. So that that was the precursor to the fire study that we started um a long time ago to make sure we could respond to the calls and we're no longer uh essentially an agrarian society where we can do neighbors helping neighbors all the time. The neighbors aren't always around. So we decided to transition to a full-time professional fire service and the um the fee and mill increase is related to part of that plan that's been going on for about seven plus years.
» This increase of three mills um ultimately reflects hiring six more full-time firemen. It was a hub and spoke system we were looking at in Kershaw County to rotate out and have mutual aid agreements with Camden. So Camden needs something we help them. If we need something, Camden helps us. Lugof fire, if they need something, we help them. If we need something, they help us. And so we try to cut down on personnel costs by having these mutual aid agreements. But uh this is one of the expansions that was planned over a six-year period. And I'm not going to get into the weeds of Act 388 and the millillage increase and caps and all of that. Um I'll save that for for probably third reading or maybe some council briefings tonight. But I can support this budget.
» It's a decrease from what was proposed. No offense at all, Mr. Administrator, but um I we just felt like there's a way maybe we could get this done on second reading and save uh a little bit more money. So, thank you for working with us on that. And I also want to thank the finance committee. Um I see Mr. Jones has a hand up. Yes, sir. I if I may, this isn't necessarily the budget. Mr. Templer, how much organic growth did we have this year? And and give an explanation on what organic growth is in the general fund. We put on maybe I think it was close to maybe 1.7 million. I have to check my numbers. Um I hadn't looked at it. But what we have done different this year and the sheriff know that's not counting the sheriff's department. Correct.
» That is that's the whole because we just dedicated u his his operating costs if you will and turned it into millillage or or assigned millage specifically to him uh and his operation. And so when we did that, the uh the organic growth in the big pot of mills that we have for the uh general fund was a lot of that was cut over to the sheriff because that that organization is a very large budget. Um but it's a very large operation, a lot of moving parts as you would imagine. But total is just 1.2 million. That's about right. Approximately about right. That's all I need to know. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any further comments or discussion before we consider voting on the Kato amendment? Seeing none, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand. This is for the amendment only.
» For the Kato amendment, correct? We've got Mr. Shoemake, Tucker, Brazle, Connell, Kato, and Tomlinson in favor. All opposed? Got Mr. Jones opposed. It passes, Miss Hannah. Um, just for the record, that's the Kato amendment only. So, the budget's back on the floor as amendment. Any further amendments, Mr. Mr. Chairman? I I'll yield to I don't have many. If you want me to go first. I just have a few comments. And if I have an amendment Oh, well then go right ahead. I have no amendments. No amendments. Okay. If if you if you're not going to be long-winded, go ahead because I am. Yeah. Well, let me just go. Yeah, let me Well, then yeah, I'll jump in. No further discussion, Mr. She. Yeah. Before any amendments, I I'm obviously supportive of this. I think, you know, as Mr.
» KO pointed out, every year we get a credit on the local local option sales tax and that credit is if if all predictors hold true, which they have in the past, we'll see an increase in that that will totally eat up the mill increase we propose. You know, the fees are what they are. I mean, if if the solid waste fee is not increased, then we're recycle centers are going to have to cut hours and staff fairly substantially. So, it's really a question of whether people want to less service. And certainly with fire, it's the same issue. If the fire fee doesn't move up nominally, you're going to see less fire services. It's not like by not raising fees, we keep it the same.
» If we raise fees to keep it at basically the baseline level of service, some small addition in fire, but this is this is not even an inflationary increase. So, um, again, it's all the millage is subsumed by the lost tax credit. So, I think this is a very, uh, financially conscientious budget. So, I'll certainly be voting for this budget as amended. And that's all I have on the budget. Thank you, Mr. Schumac. Mr. Brazzle, thank you. Um, I' I've got a couple of questions. I I spent I don't know, three or four hours prior to the meeting um reviewing the budget. Um, I've I've got a couple numbers that concern me just seemed arbit arbitrary. under non-dep departmental delinquent property taxes. The 2025 budget said $226,338. A no mill increase.
» Um there's a half million dollars kind of placed there and then it says recommended 600,000 and the change is 373,000. Round numbers uh catch my eye. Could could I have some explanation as to the what's in the wise behind this? Is that is that an estimate for delinquent tax? Yeah. Is that revenue or expenditure because what? So it will be revenue. So, what we're seeing is a a decline in revenue for delinquent tax because people are paying taxes. And uh and I'll get to that page in a second, but um so it's it's a second line item under the general fund, the first page. What's your line number there? 116 is your account. I can't I couldn't read that. I'm sorry. Okay, that's okay. That's okay. That's why I'm trying to track you down. That's what I'm trying to find out. Mr.
» Templer, uh, do you have any staff that would want to speak on this? Yeah, I'll bring Tyler in here. Poor Tyler. Come on, Tyler. essentially as a thrust, the delinquent tax ratio has gone down because more people are paying their taxes on time. Yes. Right. Okay. Mr. Chair, members of council, I'm Tyler Kirk, your budget manager. Um to answer that question specifically, um there's a couple reasons why you would see that go up even with uh better collections for starters. Um, I'm now budgeting as if we're collecting more of our delinquencies than otherwise. So, we're basically writing off less of uh that expected money. So, basically, we've changed our collections ratio uh to assume that we're going to get back more of that delinquent money.
» So, you take that up even the slightest bit, even a percentage point, you're with some big numbers. So you're going to see the link that we are actually collecting increase even if it's not like more dollars being built because we're doing a better job of actually collecting those. So it's a little counterintuitive. Uh when the administrator says we're collecting more, it actually means that we're we're getting the money that was delinquent instead of writing it off as oh we can't get anything for this. We're actually getting some of that revenue. Quick question followup. Mr. Mr.
» Brazzle still has the floor, but for followup, um, are better collections doing any part to the change that the council made budgetarily to including the millage and the budget in one vote? Because I know we had some issues in in the past with sending out notices on time. If the mill rate uh didn't get set at an appropriate time, it either Tyler or Mr. Administrator, is there any is that any of the explanation or potentially? and and um because it it's more timely now and and we're able to hit our marks, but um I think in the past we we've always hit our marks. It's just been more cumbersome. So tax notices statutoily have to go out at a particular time. So and we've always hit those marks. Um so I don't know that I could really attribute much of that.
» I think it was just a healthier economy and and uh and now at least staff has another couple months to process everything and get it out accurately. All right, Mr. Brazzle has the floor. Okay. Hey, so get comfy. We're going to be a while. Um, sorry everyone. Tyler, so you see this as a positive change to the budget of about $373,000. Is that correct? That Yes, sir. Okay. All right. So, um, vehicle prop property taxes, if we have no mill increase, we'll gain about $150,000. If we don't, uh, if we do do have a mill increase, you think the revenue change is going to be $325,000. Is that correct? Uh, yes, sir. So, it looks like our natural growth and our um the tax increase are about the same in in revenue. It's about a million and a half each. Is that correct? Oh, I'm sorry.
» Could you repeat that for me? I said it looks like our natural growth is about 1.4 million and there's another say 1.4 for in increased tax increases. Is that right? Is that is that about what what we see? I do these estimates based on aggregates of data. So, uh I probably might have taken the vehicle number at a different time than the no mill increase number, but the the recommended numbers are um my estimate on what was or rather the most recent numbers point towards that. So we go on a percentage of the assessed values that we get from the um assessor and the auditor. So the uh no mill increase budget was sort of established maybe three or so months ago before we got deep into planning with the finance office.
» So if you see small differences there, it's primarily just I had a set of numbers at one point when we're doing one plan which was no mill increase and then a different set of numbers. the most recent that I was able to update maybe two three weeks ago in talks with our assessor. Uh so my understanding is that those recommended numbers are are what's closest. Um and if you see something small like that, I mean obviously four mills is not going to add $150,000 to what we're going to get from from vehicles. It's just uh that best estimate there. Okay. All right.
» So, so the numbers aren't aren't 100% accurate because for the no mill increase amount, sir, and that's just because again you you're working on these projections and you can only work with the data you have on the day you do the projection. I understand that. Um taxes on watercraft. There's there's a bill in the state house that begs of a reduction in uh taxes on on boats. Yes, sir. You're you're fully aware of that? Yes, sir. Uh, and let me let me uh just finish a statement. So, I was told if that passed, we would lose about $600,000 in revenue. And I'm I'm looking at this now in our in our 2025 budget, it states that we collected $153,000. So, to go from 10.5% to 6% um that doesn't equate to me.
» Can you clarify that that is the total amount of revenue collected in Kershaw County for for boats? It'll be one second for me to double check that then. Off the top of my head, I don't have the note for the collections this year, but I'll update you as soon as I can. Okay. You do see the line item that says watercraft $153,862. Oh, yes, sir. Okay. So there wouldn't be another line item in which boats or watercrafts were a part of that line item. Um, not that I'm aware off the top of my head, but we work on these things a while back. I'll have to double check that for you and get that information to you. Okay. Um, Mr. Brazzle. Yes, sir.
» Can I can I ask you a quick question? Uh if I'm not mistaken and correct me Tyler or Danny or whoever um you've got your boats then you have your motors which are tax different aren't they? Again I have to double check it this every time I go through revenue projections I sit with a big set of guides and then I talk to our assessor and auditor and so I I don't like to speak to specifics unless I have guides in front of me. Yeah. And I know that's more on the auditor's side. He knows that better than you do because he actually sends out those bills. Yes. But if I'm not mistaken, they're taxed. The boat and then the engine is taxed. So that that's right. But this line item says watercraft, right? So I would assume they would both be be in there.
» So that's why I'm asking for the and I'm sorry to be long-winded. It's just it's it's a big budget and you know there there's a lot um being asked of the taxpayer and there's always a lot being asked of of our fire department and what Brandt was talking about earlier um with his community. I think it's important. Okay. So, I noticed something under our county council budget. Um, and I I can ask our administrator or I can ask um our our chairman of finance. There's a overtime a recommended overtime number in our budget. Um, could I get clarification? is $89,167 and that would be an increase in in this year's budget plus a $63,716 insurance fringe. So that's 150,000 bucks. That's about oh I don't know half a mill. Do we know what that's going to be used for? I apologize.
» So that's a scrivener's error entirely on my part. What those are is uh insurance rate in the overtime block before I um increased it for this year's changes to insurance costs. So I apologize for that. That 89167 is not part of your uh actual totals there and I'll have it corrected before third reading. Okay. And the insurance fringe as well. Uh so that one almost definitely is actually at at that higher amount and that's because we've had big changes to insurance from last year. So we had some turnover on our council and some people moved to full family. Full family insurance is over $19,000 per person now. Uh so those insurance prices are getting very high for health insurance. Okay. So that's the county's portion of the insurance. That's okay. Yeah. So, all right.
» So, I did I did write that number twice, though, and I I do deeply apologize for that. The $89,000, right? That that 95 figure is the correct one. Okay. So, we're looking at two different line items. One's $89,000 for overtime and then one's um 95 956 for insurance fringe. $95,000 for insurance fringe. So, it's moving from 63 to 95. Yes, sir. That that does clarify that. Yeah. very very sorry for that. No, that's okay. I just I mean I didn't The first one concerned me more than the second one because I didn't know why we needed 90 more,000 in our county council budget because our budget isn't that big anyhow. Right. As we move into contribution contribution agencies, um I noticed there was several requests and I think only one of them was met fully. uh the fine arts center.
» They last year they weren't in here. This year they they requested 25,000 and the recommendation was 25,000. That was the only agency that changed. Um am I reading this correctly? I believe no last year. It says zero for 2025. Yeah, Councilman Brazzle. I think and it I think we may have funded them through a different revenue source. I don't recall though, but they've always gotten that 25. I think in that budget they may have come from a different revenue source. Um, but I'm not entirely sure. I have to look back at my notes from last year, but I do know from the meetings they've always gotten they've been there. Yeah, they've been in there for Yeah, they've always gotten 25. Okay. So, this is what I'm looking at. Yeah.
» I don't know why that's zero because unless we fund it from someone else, um they got the 25 last year. I'll have to check. I'll put a star by it. Okay. Um, so no, no one else received any additional monies from from any of these agencies. Um, as a matter of fact, Santi Lynch's COG um went down $13,495. Is that right? That was a one-time spending for a specific project. Uh, I believe it was renovating a building, but Mr. Speak more. Yes. Yes, it was. It was one time money that we uh requested and that was not requested again this year this budget year. It was all distributed uh during the course of this year. Okay. That was actually for the freezer and stuff aging. All right. All right. Um under a lot of these categories I see data processing. Um under administration it's $43,570.
» Can can I get clarification on what data processing is? Absolutely. So, um we use that line item to include a lot of the ongoing software expenditures uh that don't normally require an involved contract like you would see in something that's like a contracted service. So, if it's software only without uh an incredibly extensive sort of support apparatus that goes into that, we'll use uh data processing for it. So, um, we've added a bit of software this year that that's what you're seeing there for I think it's better council reporting. U, but the specific name of that service I have on hand. Okay. So, I see it in a lot of um I see it in a lot of budgets. Um, there's a there's a increase of 7,000 bucks in the finance department as well.
» So that that number gets gets pretty big pretty quick. Yes, sir. Um I'd just like some clarification as to what that total number is and the the types of services that they are. They're very different for each department as well. So that could reflect uh for example um well that that council software, but it also sometimes reflects specific IT needs uh like for some of their ongoing contracts. So, it's really got to be case by case. We tend to get a lot of large contractual increases in times of inflation. Um, so with those fees go up, you'll see that reflected in the data processing lines. We're also trying to make sure that we're um tightening up as much as we can on where those specific accounts lie.
» So, I know at least one circumstance where something was booked as a contracted service would be more appropriate to list as data processing. Um, and I believe that was in uh E911. We moved that over. So, if you see a corresponding drop in some of those contacted services lines, that might explain some of what you're seeing. And also, you're going to have we have just a slew of data processing in every touch because everything is just so um online, electronic.
» moving uh we've gone from paper time sheets that you know that 1985 approach to payroll to a um time clock plus so there's there's automation accountability if you look at just the assessor auditor and treasurers software needs alone that that gets pretty pretty big pretty quick and those it's where a lot of our inflationary pressures come from um almost specifically is with these data processing contracts and it's it's it's software, it's GIS, it's it's web service, it's everything you can imagine that if you can pull up online um with uh keeping our ordinances and things of that nature being electronic and searchable, register of deeds.
» So there's just a slew of things and that's not even dispatch over there where that that's when I was in part of standing that software up that was $750,000 project to lock that up but that was uh that was in 20 2012. Um so these costs escalate um and they're pretty consistent. We don't really see anything that goes up significantly, but for what we need to do, what we need to be able to provide, what we need to be able to be in compliance with on state and local and sometimes federal regulations. Um, we are very much an electronic based organization. I'll just mention too while you're looking at your notes, Mr. Brazle that we we had a big financial uh hit or cost whenever we moved to the did the codification project which the former Mr.
» Deose was here and just we harped on that for years before we could codify and get everything online so that folks wouldn't have to show up and look through ordinances and things with Miss Mary uh you know in a in a binder this big and a couple of them but we made it all searchable so that people could find what laws might apply to them online. So, that was a big a big hit. But then we were able to reset and say we're codified, we're online. Um, but also general foyer compliance with the number of requests that come through, making sure I see Mr. D rolling his eyes cuz that a lot of requests come through. Um, and so these software programs allow us to remain FOYA compliant and produce documents as they get requested. Thank you. Um, Mr. Mr.
» Brazil, are you going are you going to be a minute before anything happens? If so, I'm going to use the restroom while you're still talking. Yeah. Thank you. Continue on, Mr. Brown. No, you you know I would have pass the baton when you come back. Um, so what we do is important and and I, you know, I apologize in advance for being long-winded, but if I wasn't, I don't feel like I was doing my job. Um, our attorney, our attorney budget is a quarter of a million dollars in 2025. Um there was request for an additional $100,000 and I'm sure just as our chairman stated uh to cover all sorts of things including foyer request and that sort of thing but the recommendation is actually $145,000 more than that. Um so the recommended budget is is $495,000.
» Is there any particular am I am I missing something? Is it um due to foyer? It is due to the some of our commissions which I'm reigning in. Um the attorney works for me. They don't work for the planning commission or anyone like that. Now, I want a mesh point there, but there has been this um tendency to just instead of uh just looking something up or whatever, engaging the attorney uh for things that maybe didn't necessarily need legal review. um contracts. Uh we we've dialed that back a little bit, but there are um so many more things we are doing now with the attorney and and we'll continue to look at that and and see what's going to be best for us moving forward.
» but our planning and zoning, the meetings they have, the the developmental meetings for all development that goes on in in the county. It's a staff meeting with the attorney there and he provides valuable information to keep these projects between the ditches and and and so there is a I see value in that with uh John's ability to look at something and forecast a potential lawsuit issue or legal issue and just not even have that come to fruition. Um so but the foyer requests have been um increasing. I hope that software will dial some of that back, but all we can do now is is go with what we have seen in the past and then adjust as as needed um through the budget. Well, I I mean I think your point's well taken that there's a better approach and that he works for you.
» Um, John, you know, I have a lot of respect for you, but I don't see the necessity in um a $245,000 increase. Um, well, you've actually spent uh over $350,000 this year, despite that original $250,000 budget. So, the first $100,000 is just to meet the exact same expenditures as the current fiscal year we're in. Um if there are circumstances that require additional legal needs such as um there's a lot of discussion on longer term issues that will require a lot of active involvement with legal teams. Uh we need to be able to kind of account for that before we are trying to backfill. So I I I agree, but maybe we should have a monthly cap, kind of like a prepaid cell phone. When it runs out for the month, it runs out. Start again next month.
» So I will be making an amendment to fulfill his request or the request uh of a 100,000 instead of 245,000. Is that in the form of a motion? Not yet. Okay. Um what's that line item? Attorney fees. Attorney I can't tell you a page because it's not a page. It's under 105 attorney 10-5-105-507-01 under professional services. I'll keep it out here to the side. Um again, data processing underneath information technology. Um, the 2026 recommended expenditure is $451,50. That's a $98,500 increase. I feel like that could be another air, Tyler. I hope. I really hope $450,000 under one one budgets. There's no way we're spending that much money on software.
» So, uh there's unless we bought a software company, there there's a federal mandate to increase uh that amount for a security thing that Chris or um Jeremy could probably speak more to, but we've actually have to hire an entire new position as well uh to meet that need. It's a it's a federal security change um that actually what it is, it's it's law enforcement, it's data processing over there at the sheriff's office. I used to be over that. So, it is Skyers and NY's data going back. Um, it's what SLED pulls. It's what the FBI pulls. Um, this this software is it's expensive. It has to have dedicated lines. We can't just send dispatch information to and from the jail over just a regular 425 number. It's got to be uh almost encrypted because it's sensitive material.
» um that it we will be adding a position at some point just to handle that data processing alone. When I was audited over at the sheriff's office on this information, it is a herculean task to go through and go through that sled audit. And this is just where they are bearing down and getting even more serious with uh the security requirements, you know, two factor authentication on laptops. Um it it it's So does this come out of the sheriff's budget then? It's it's because uh right now [Music] um it is we have the servers, we we have the people um and quite frankly they don't have the talent to do any of this. So it's it's I see it as fair as coming out of there. Um it's it's a specific IT mandate. Um that individual uh and and also Mr. for Brazwell. We we do have fire, EMS, and 911.
» So, the sheriff's office has a a large part of that, but it it you know, we have a lot of customers and consumers of that data. So, so that's a that's a yearly cost though. It's these are going to be reoccurring. So, um if it wasn't a yearly cost or if it wasn't a reoccurring cost, we we tend to address those in the capital budget. or one time. So, can we can we have an opportunity to look at those at a later date? Just look at those contracts. I'm just curious. [Music] Um, yeah. So, these are mandates. I um Yeah, there's got to be some sort of contract. Yep. Be glad to do it. All right. Sorry, y'all. Trying to move along. Um, Mr. Browsley, you want to yield if anybody else has any direct questions on the tip of their tongue while you? Yes, sure.
» Any other questions, comments, or discussion? I still have my amendment. Okay. Any other question, comments, or discussion? All right, Mr. Browsel, back to you. So, I I won't go into all of them, but every page I'm flipping, I'm I'm finding more and more of the data processing, and Danny's explained that. Um, Mr. Brazzle, how about this? If we have an amendment that's ready to be proposed, you're still more than welcome to make an amendment later. Um, after this next amendment's discussed, whether it passes or fails, you want to yield to the pending amendment. I'll yield to Mr. Tucker. All right. We've had the K2 amendment pass. We have Mr. Tucker who has an amendment he wants put before the body. Mr. Tucker, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, let me find where I'm at now.
» I'm flipping with Mr. Brazzle here and I'm gotten a little lost myself. So um into the budget that was submitted by uh administration um was a slight um I guess forgotten object uh on a line item. So I would like to clear that up. The good part is that is uh no additional cost. It's moving money from one location to the other. So Mr. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we transfer $547,762 from the fire reserve to fire operation. I'll explain if I get a second. Second. Is there a second? Mr. Shemate, we got a first and a second. Mr. Tucker, you have the floor. Thank you.
» This is for the two additional fire trucks um that we're trying to purchase that uh we've got a deal on uh from the folks down in Sumpter where someone in North Carolina, one of the municipalities um and Will can explain this a lot better than I can. Um had to reig on their purchase. So, we're getting it at a deal uh both of them. And this money is already in your fire service in the reserves and we just want to transfer that amount out so we can purchase these two fire trucks. And and Danny, I'll let you elaborate here in just a second. Um knowing that these fire trucks, if you order them today, they can be years out for delivery and um they will cost a lot more than what we're purchasing these. Would you like to elaborate, Mr. Templer? I think that's about it, but you're right.
» waiting is not saving and then these are on the ground and the build times can be two to three years and then the costs escalate. Um we have an immediate need now and this is just a great opportunity to save money on two apparatus uh when we would probably get one if we were to wait. Um so it's great opportunity and staff feels like this is the best bet here. Uh money is there just got to move it. Thank you Mr. temple. Mr. Second, I think they said it all. Okay. Any other questions or comments? Yes, I I do. Mr. Jones, right quickly. Um, so this money is going to be transferred. It's money we already have in the fire. Correct. Is there any replacement money in the budget to replace that that money that you spend in the new budget? We're voting on this year.
» It's pulling from their reserves, the fire reserves. that that is a uh a special revenue. So, it's it's separate from our general fund. Um but we we're not emptying our reserves. We're just taking the opportunity to spend some of the reserves. Well, what would be the balance of the reserve? Um for fire. Um once we move this, it will have 700,000. Okay. This is just a basic line item transfer. Period. Nothing else. Okay. No increase for capital expenditure. Any other question? Thank you, Mr. Jones, any other questions or comments? And I'm sorry, Mr. Jones, I did not make that clear about what was left in the budget, but this is not draining their their budget, their reserves.
» Any other questions or comments on the Tucker amendment? No, I I think I just bought I just bought two fort lists because they were on the ground and it was a eight-month build time. So, I completely understand. Um things aren't aren't getting any cheaper. Um th this doesn't have anything to do with general fund budget. This is the fire budget. Correct. Correct. Just to be clear. Okay. Um, totally support the fire department in doing that. Thank you. Thank you. Seeing no further comments, questions, or concerns, let's go ahead and move it to a vote. This is a vote on the Tucker amendment. All in favor, raise your hand. Miss Hannah, it's unanimous. Tucker amendment passes. The budget is back on the floor.
» Are there any other discussion, comments, or amendments? Um, still still working through a few things. I apologize. um public defender. We've got a request for $124,000. Is this the public defender that will help move um people through the jail faster? That was a discussion that that we had earlier in the year. Um, we feel like by adding a public defender that they can have a higher level of communication and um, get people to court faster and have a fair trial and keep us from having to build a $60 million jail. That's the goal for me anyway. Is that is that what that $124,000 does? Yes. Perfect. Totally agree with that. on the uh jail part. Sir, we will still need a jail at some point. [Laughter] Good luck with the $60 million jail. We're holding a bag sale tomorrow.
» Yeah, it's going to be a big one. Um so Tyler um answered most of my questions. I won't be able to support this tonight because there there are several errors in here. I'd like to be able to support the budget this year. Um, but just while doing my due diligence, we we've ran across several errors that could save us even more money. I would like to think that they could. Um, at this time I'd like to make an amendment to fulfill the $100,000 request for the attorney but not overfulfill it um to the $245,000. Is that in the form of a motion? It is. Is there a second? Second. Have a second. Mr. Russell Brazzle, you got the floor. So, I I feel like I've talked enough, but um for reasons probably beyond um several people's control, our attorney's budget um was proposed at 495,000.
» Last year it was 250,000. The request is for an additional 100,000. Um and I find that um more reasonable obviously. Um, and I don't know that we need to put a do we need to put some kind of cap on the amount of time that is spent um some guidelines, some internal guidelines and and as you stated, he does work for you. So, I think you can do that without us and I would I would highly recommend that happen. Um, I I'm just looking looking at a way to save a half a mill, you know. Um, but Mr. Browzer, we need to make sure that we have access to an attorney. Yeah. Council members. Yeah. Yeah. And and and I I don't disagree. I just I think doubling the the amount of money is an egregious amount of money. Um and not not to say he's not worth it. Probably worth that more.
» But when we're dealing with public dollars, um we need to be very careful as to how we spend them. Mr. President, if I may, could we ask the administrator to give an explanation as to how and why they came with that number? Yeah, and he he kind of did earlier, but yeah, we we could further hear more. Yeah, of course. And I stepped out of the room during that point. I'd like to hear Yeah, let's hear it again. So, that 100,000 number was the request back in January when we were collecting requests. Uh, but as of a month ago, our spending on attorneys this year was over $350,000. So that estimated cost is based on increased usage of the attorney next year due to projected council actions.
» Um especially when you consider things like the moratorum, increased use by the planning commission, all of those intended or discussed issues have been taken into account for the impact they might have on that attorney budget. So you know we only have the knowledge we have at the time. Um, and if we've got over $350,000 of spending before the end of this fiscal year, we need to make sure that we can account for it in the future so that we aren't having to cancel other projects or initiatives uh that council might have felt necessary. Mr. Brazel, if I might, um, you mentioned various areas of legal costs or expenditures that we have, but there's also lawsuits.
» And so we have some that are pending right now or had some that uh hopefully just got wrapped up, but we have some that are pending now which haven't even got into discovery yet, which is one some of the most expensive phase of discovery. Sometimes you hope these cases get resolved. Sometimes they look them like they may not and you just dig in and have to litigate to uh defend the county's rights and interests of the public and all those costs are covered in that line item. And I don't agree with all those increased costs that were just quoted either. I do not think the moratorum will cost us a lot of money to do nothing. To clarify, I just we just built a projection based on expected usage, not just that. It's just one of many factors that go into that.
» I I just disagree with the use of that. We hadn't even voted on it yet. I think that to me that is almost like a political statement. Oh, no sir. Uh I apologize. We're just trying to make sure that we have money ready for anything you might Thank you, Tyler. Um, you know, the the AOD was a it was very expensive and and from a staff standpoint, there was there was a lot going into that. So, I know John was really helping us with that with our public we had eight public engagements and John was there most of those. But, um, I think that was important. A lot of people were heard. um they had concerns and we were able to craft some of their concerns into amendments that help them ease their mind with how their property was looked at as it relates to the AODD.
» So, um and give an explanation when you say AODD. Oh, I'm sorry. Airport overlay district. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. If I may, um Mr. Brazwell, I I deeply respect your request and your amendment, but I also know that um with a lot of the um things that coming up about land usage, um we we have been in some legal battles. We're still in some legal battle battles. Um I have 100% confidence in Mr. Templar and staff that um they don't go out and frivishly spend money on Mr. John DeBose as our attorney and I say that with confidence because he's been a good steward about putting money back into our reserves uh since he's been the administrator and even when he was the assistant administrator.
» So it's like all the line item budgets that's there because it's there don't mean you have to spend it. Be a good steward and he has been. And so for those reasons I can't support this amendment tonight. Well the amendment would simply fulfill his request. Um it's it's the additional $145,000 that he he may even have a heartburn with. Um I don't know that he's seen that. So anyway, the amendments on the floor and we can vote on it. All right. Any further discussion? Mr. Brazzle, who made the motions, call for the vote. All in favor, raise your hand. We have Mr. Brazzle in favor. All opposed. Oh, excuse me. You prefer to vote in favor? I'll vote with Brazle. Okay. Okay. Jimmy, Mr. Jones votes with Mr. Brazle. You have two in favor.
» Uh all who are opposed, you have everyone else, Miss Hannah, for the record voting in opposition. The amendment fails. Are there any other um motions, amendments, discussion on the budget? It's back on the floor. We got the Kato amendment passing and the Tucker amendment passing. The only thing I would like to mention on on the attorney um maybe to make up for for some of that deficit, I think we could potentially look at having somebody in house to be able to supplement and maybe look at those numbers going forward.
» This isn't a budget um item right now that we can discuss because that's time and energy um and it's not going to be fixed in this budget, but that could be something that if um if that's something that would help Keral County and budget operations going forward, that's something that I'd be willing and potential to discuss. Yes, sir. And that's certainly something I'm looking at. I I still think John has a tremendous value to the county with his institutional knowledge. Um, but I think there are some things that we could potentially address lowhanging fruit contract reviews and things like that for um, just in-house things. Yep. Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Mr. Temple. Mr. Jones, let me make myself clear. I agree with Brazil's I voted with him, but let me tell you something.
» The Bose firm that these guys are a wealth of knowledge. You just can't replace it by like we have two attorneys up here right now. You guys don't know the the have the knowledge they have. They don't have the knowledge you have based on what you practice in law. You don't just buy 45 years of of of public service that um that the Bose firm has given us. We're driving the cost of not them. It's us. It's is it's the administration, the employees. It's us who use it counsel. It's the ones who use it. So, I mean, I just want to make sure we're clear on that. Uh they do an outstanding job. outstanding job of this county. Thank you, Mr. Jones. And that, Mr.
» Chairman, if I can, just to clarify, that wasn't um what I was proposing at all um because you can't replace institutional knowledge, but there can be something to supplement if it can save us money in the long run. And just to be clear, I was thinking more supplemental inhouse with Mr. Deose remaining on. Yeah. And um one question for clarification. So the budgets we're talking about, are you pulling from there as well for outside legal counsel or uh legal consultants or opinions that we get on incidental matters or even direct litigation? So we do engage uh with outside attorneys um labor. But I'm just asking is it lined up with that particular um budget item? Yeah, that's that's my understanding. Yeah. Okay. That's what I thought. I just want to make sure.
» So, it's we've said to Bose about 50 times tonight, but there's also a lot of attorneys. One who um is waiting in the wings right now for an executive session matter tonight. We'll call him up at some point on an important uh legal and litigation matter. Okay. Any uh further comments, disc is he sitting free for right now? I I hope so. Somebody's going to go get dinner. Not on our time. Um any other comments, questions, concerns on the budget? Any other motions? Seeing no other discussion, questions, concerns, or motions, we are now voting on the budget as amended on second reading. This is after the K2 amendment has passed and after the Tucker amendment has passed. Move it to a vote. All in favor, raise your hand. We've got Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, Connell, Kato, and Tomlinson in favor.
» All opposed. You've got Mr. Brazzle, Mr. Jones opposed. It passes. Second reading, Miss Hannah, for the record. Thank you, gentlemen. That takes us to item number 9 D. This is a first reading on an ordinance establishing a temporary moratorum placed on the agenda by Mr. Jones and Mr. Brazzle. Is there a motion? Mr. Chairman, I also move that we approve the ordinance imposing a 180day moratorum. Okay, there's a motion. Is there a second? I'll make the second. Mr. Brazwell has a second. Mr. Jones, you have the floor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of county council, and thank you to all the members of the public who came out and spoke tonight. Uh, I fully support this moratorum.
» The planning commission was created to provide guidance and recommendations to this county council about planning and zoning matters. The commission reviews various development, excuse me, uh, de development proposals each month. And I believe that it knows the ZL DR better than anyone other than our staff and our legal counsel. And the commission has recommended that the county take a six-month pause on major subdivision approvals. The commission is telling us, this planning is under commission. They are telling us that current subdivision regulations are not doing enough to protect the county's environmental resources. The planning is zoning commission is telling us which by the way we appoint which is mandated mandated by state law.
» They're telling us that current subdivision regulations are not delivering the quality of residential development that our citizens are begging for. And you heard from some of them tonight. The planning zoning commission is telling us that if we don't pause now, we will get more subdivisions that don't suit the conser the current desires of the people, the commission or this county council. Subdivisions are a large part of the heartbeat of any community. They say that when someone is having a heart attack, the quicker they get treatment, the greater chance they will survive. With a heart attack, doctors say that time equals muscle. The more time you have, the more muscle you can put into saving the patient.
» Our planning is on commission is telling us that our heart, our subdivision communities are not keeping up with the county healthy. The planning zone commission is telling us that our left arm is tingling and that we are moments away from a heart attack with this growth. I say we listen to the planning zoning commission and give them the six months they have asked for to work on subdivision regulations. Time is muscle. We need to give the commission, the plans zone commission and ourselves time to improve our subdivision regulations so that our county can continue to thrive. And let me just say this too before I let someone else speak. I think there's members, this is Ned Tao, who is the chairman of the county and the county planning and zoning commission. I think he's here.
» Do we have any other members of planning zoning commission that are here? Mr. tell you're the only one or you've already left too. Okay. Oh, you're here. Okay. Well, I just want to thank you and thank your commissioners. Uh, all of them that voted in favor of this that showed up to your special called meeting. I want to say thank you to each and every one of them. I know Heather Dykes voted in favor. I know that Mason Wolf voted in favor. Ned Towel, chairman voted in favor. Uh, Chris Refro voted in favor. Who else? Am I missing somebody? That was that was it. Okay. So, anyway, and I want to say this. Thank you so much to each and every one of you. And also, thank you. I know I talked to the uh the two that voted no. The one didn't show up. He couldn't make it.
» But the two that uh voted against it, I don't think they're hardressed against this either. They just voted no. But anyway, and uh like I said with all confidence, but anyway, I want to say thank you for your time and u I'm here to support where we need to go with this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. and I yield at this moment. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Browley, you had the second. Um, thank you, Chairman. I appreciate it. I I appreciate all the time earlier and I apologize to everyone who's waited patiently as we work through some of the budget um some of those line items. Um, regarding the moratorum, I've never loved the idea of a moratorum. As a matter of fact, it's been discussed.
» This is my fifth year on council and it was discussed in a meeting five years ago and and we've discussed it along and along um now now over the course of um I think three three chairman and uh a chair lady and a couple of temporary chairmans. So, it's it's been talked about and I'll say this, our family's business depends on home building. Um, we manufacture custom wood moldings and kitchen cabinet doors. If people aren't building houses, we're not providing jobs for the 80 plus employees that we have or or our own families. Um, so I'm I'm definitely not against building homes, but I can tell you there's there's been a shift in the way homes have been built and the way that that this community's grown. Um, this is June 1st marks my 25th year that I've worked in the industry full-time.
» In 2008, we had a terrible recession that lasted for about four and a half, five years. Things started getting better. 2012 um they weren't really good until 2015 um for our industry. So we heavily depended on any project local or you know as as far away as we could ship the product. We really needed that revenue. Um but what's happened is imported goods have changed home building. Um, a lot of what I hear people talking about regarding the types of homes that are being built, um, I've seen that firsthand and and now I think everybody's free to do what they like within within reason. But what's turned people against these major subdivisions um are crowded roads, failing infrastructure, failing bridges, um the change of of community and how it impacts us in our community.
» So in my mind, I can separate those two things. I can separate my business and I can separate our community. So when this was brought to me, um my first concern was are you suggesting that we stop building permits? And the answer was no. No, no, absolutely not. Um we would continue um issuing building permits in the county. That that would never stop at all. And I said, "Well, how long are we are we talking? Is this a year? I I can't I can't agree to a year." And no, no, we're thinking six months. And so I actually reached out to some colleagues, some people that that work for Custom Home Builders as well as National Builders.
» And I had a very frank conversation with a a local businessman that told me, he said, "You know, Russell, we depend on home building." I said, "Well, I know I do, too." And I said, "Does a sixmonth moratorum on major subdivisions only scare you?" and after a short pause he says no I think it's what's best for our community and I'll agree with him on that point that it is best for our community to get things right um this isn't about next year certainly isn't about next month and in a post 2008 recession and a postcoavid reality People are moving to South Carolina in droves. And while it could be a good thing, I think we have to change the way we we think about growth and development. I think we have to think about the way our communities are built. People like walkable communities.
» people like communities that um that are whole that are wholesome. Right now you can walk into planning and zoning and if you check 12 15 boxes you can develop. Okay. um national builders are now willing to develop on 1acre lots because alternatively in counties like Charleston County, Greenville County, they can't they can't produce a quarter acre lot for what they can build a 1acre lot here for. So, as as we've done things together and uh Councilman Shoemate and I worked together on lot size um lotsiz minimums and and and zoning regulations and I think it changed the dynamic some. I think it improved the way Kershaw County will be. But I I definitely think a plan development is probably the only way to move forward in a positive manner in Kershaw County.
» If if we leave it status quo, um you know, I think the horse is pretty much out of the barn and it's galloping and it's about to break into a full sprint. So, I'm going to support the moratorum in spite of myself and my family's business. And if it hurts for a little while, I'll endure it for the good of the community. And with that being said, I'll shut up. Thank you, Mr. Brazzle. Um, Mr. Thompson. Yeah, M. Mr. Chairman, um I I have an amendment I'd like to propose and if I can get a second on it, um I'm happy to provide some additional discussion on this. Um because I I've been one who sat up here um who's been very supportive of a mortorium. Um I put one on the airport overlay as a mortorium on everything. um fought through that.
» Even even some of the people sitting in the audience were for the mortorium and when we got up here and tried to restrict um land use in the AOD fought against it. Um so there has to be a means to an ends. However, I do have an amendment I'd like to make. My amendment is to include minor subdivisions to include two lots or more and I will give the reason behind that. The only thing that would that would include any apartments, uh, duplexes, town homes that would be in the unincorporated areas of Kershaw County. The only thing excluded will be single family residents. So, if a person wants to build a house on their property solely for the six-month 180day moratorum, they will be able to. And then that also excludes plan purpose districts. So, PDDs or PPDs. Those are the two exclusions.
» That's your motion. Yeah, that's my motion. All right, we got a motion. I'll second. Oh, Mr. I'll yield to Mr. Ko. Mr. Kato seconds. Yeah. Mr. Thomasson, you have the floor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, you know, tonight we heard a lot of a lot of taglines. Smart growth, mega development, subdivision standards, environmental impacts, aging infrastructure, sixth fastest growing county in the state of South Carolina. All those numbers are very or data points are very disturbing. Um, if we look at the major impacts, so let's look at our our ordinance right now. Minor subdivisions. What is a minor subdivision? Anything less than 10 lots. So, we're going to allow 20 different things along the river and different people's property, that's going to be nine lots, nine lots, no substandards.
» The create the creation of any new street. So if I'm creating a new street, if I'm providing infrastructure, which the large developers, even though I wish exactly somebody said it earlier, I wish we didn't have any in Kershaw County anymore. I don't like people who don't who aren't from here. However, they do provide streets and infrastructure. The minor subdivisions don't. We just changed our ordinance last meeting where we had third reading regarding if a small minor subdivision had the ability for water access within a certain jurisdiction, they will be required to put fire hydrants. We just changed that. We're way behind the time.
» So, if we're looking at actually doing something right for Kershaw County, eliminating growth, if you want to build a single house, I feel you should have that opportunity during these 180day period. However, if we're going to do this the right way, protect Kershaw County and really do the right thing as far as eliminating growth and taking a look, getting our comprehensive plan done. And I I can also go further until that comprehensive plan is done, which it needs to be done. Our our ZLDR needs to start now. Talking about the AODD, the AODD, we put a six-month moratorum on all building permits, every single one. I got calls from friends who had already had construction loans to build a single house and they weren't allowed to.
» But I stood up here and took that because I thought it was the right thing to do. So if we're going to go forward with this, we have to take a step back and look at ourselves wholly who we are as a county and where we want to grow by only eliminating major subdivisions. We cannot do that including minor doing it the right way. the planning commission getting that comprehensive plan done so we can get on the ZLDR. The AOD took was scheduled to take six months. It did cost a lot of money which is why those attorney fees are included. The AOD took 8 and 12 months of planning and prep and that wasn't during while we were crunching budget time. That takes staff's work and efforts away. We have a lot going forward.
» So, if we're saying the ZLDR is two years out, the AODD, which was a small portion of this county, was two and a half months over its timeline. So, we have to sit here if we're going to do things right. We all have to come together. And I really hope my council members, my colleagues will support the voice of the community when I say I I did get an applause for the amendment. So, if we're looking at applauses, then that has to say something about the support. But that is my amendment. Mr. Chairman, could I speak to that? Mr. Kato had the second. He's got the ground. M. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to speak whenever Councilman Brazle is finished. Okay. I think Mr. Kto was ahead of me. I'm sorry. I got Mr. Kato, you had the second.
» I came in here tonight with the intentions of supporting the moratorum. And um I tell you why. Because I live in a rural area. and I live in a rural area that most people don't want to see minor nor major subdivisions come in. So, Mr. Thomasson, I appreciate your thought into this and I'm hate to say I appreciate you giving me the second. I I I hate to say that I didn't think of it myself, but I will I'm going to say this tonight. I was very upset with the way this was handled to begin with. I didn't know anything, not one thing about this moratorum, the proposal, the meeting or anything until Tuesday of last week. That was my first time. And the chairman of the commission, Mr. Ned Tile, was the one that reached out to me.
» So, that doesn't give a councilman very much time to look into anything or to think about the process. And I'm one of those that I like to think about things. But I got on the ball. I made a few phone calls, done some talking, and I had a lot of phone calls and a lot of text messages and a lot of emails even today. But it's very important after Mr. Thomasson brought this amendment, as I look at my particular district, you know, you take 10 acres of land and you put 20 20 homes on it. Well, that's that's a lot of houses. And if you go around and you put 20 houses in a 10 mile square radius on all these different lots of lands that people buy up and develop, you're talking about major infrastructure issues.
» Look at the North Central area, the three schools, and how things have changed there. That's just one example. So, I agree with Mr. Brazwell. He has my full support tonight. And um I mean I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to both of you. Mr. Thomasson. We both we we both took it as a compliment. We both have a little gray in our beard. But I'm in full support, Mr. Thomasson tonight, and I thank you for your hard work. Thank you. Could Could I speak to that, please? You got the floor, Mr. Brazzle. So, um Councilman Thomasson, I appreciate an amendment that would move the ball forward. Um, you said you said reduce it to how many? Two any any minor subdivision. So, if we look at the language of a minor, sorry, just put a minute in my mouth.
» Um, if we if we look at the language of any minor subdivision, that's anything under 10 homes is included in a minor subdivision besides a single family residence according to our ordinances. Uh so two lots or more anything two lots or more um only excluding single family residents and PPDs. So, so for me in my viewpoint that was that was probably the one thing I didn't want to do and I'm just going to be real honest and as to why the moratorum just went from affecting a handful of major developers that are from wherever. Maybe they're from Witchah, Kansas. I don't know. They're not from South Carolina. They're not from Kershaw County.
» Now, it's affecting our friends and our neighbors because I can't tell you how many people over the years have bought a small parcel of land, maybe it's five acres, and split it into into five lots, and they would build maybe three houses this year, two houses next year. um that affects small business and that affects the real home building industry versus major development. That's the only reason I don't love it. I appreciate you coming from a a point of view that that is supportive. Um I'll be real honest. I agree more with our chairman than than he would than he would know right now as to property rights. But as soon as there was a planning and zoning and a and a ZLDR created, those property rights were changed and the way land was developed was changed.
» And and when I got here, you could build seven houses per acre, 7.2 or 7.4 houses per acre of developed land. Mhm. Um, so we've changed that here in Kershaw County. I think that's a good thing. I think we've we've taken steps in a direction, but I've never wanted to do anything that would that would directly harm somebody's income that's just providing for themselves, their family, their employees. Um, and that's less today than it was 10 years ago, certainly. But there are people right here right now. I think uh I can think off the top of my head, Sweet Brier Homes. They built a great house. Um Brett Mloud and David Dabney. They're local. We would be directly hurting their business. And I'm sorry to call names, gentlemen. Um if y'all hear this at some point, I just I know them.
» I grew up with them. I went to school and college with them. They're not the problem. They're not the point of great concern. Um, and I just use them as an example again. Those types of builders are not the reason why we're having these conversations today. These conversations did not exist uh in a in a precoid world where where people from all over were moving to South Carolina. So for those reasons, I would like to stay the course on where we were at if it's possible. Yeah. I I Mr. Chairman if I may or actually Mr. Schoeck I believe has you want me to yield or do you want me to go? No, you can go ahead and I'll I'll take next. Thank you Mr. Brows. Mr. Shoemake. Yeah. So a couple of points.
» Um I think uh I want to make note because it was brought up earlier to to anyone who thinks otherwise. I am not a real estate attorney. Perhaps that's why my uh practice isn't as booming as I would like to be because people don't think I do something I don't. I do uh business compliance and white collar uh criminal defense. None of which growth really impacts unless we have some healthcare fraudsters moving into the area. So, um my practice has nothing to do with real estate. Uh in fact, I don't even know how to do a real estate closing. So, that said, um I do think this amendment is fair. If you're going to if you're going to say we have to we have to have a moratorum. The problem we have is density.
» Density doesn't distinguish between small division, small subdivision, large subdivision bluntly. I know the support isn't up here for it. So I won't waste everyone's time with an amendment. I would do a full moratorium for everything. Um but I know the support isn't here for that. I'm not going to put my colleagues in that position. The fact is it doesn't matter if it's on your personal land or if it's in a major subdivision or if it's in a 8-unit small subdivision. When we add five people to the county, we add five people to the county. The problem is density. I will say this, and I've went on record to anyone who's reached out to me. Um, I agree with Councilman Ko. I abhore the way this was handled.
» I think that rushing this through, I personally asked for a little more time to have some meetings and talk about it. Not because I didn't support it, but because I thought it was being rushed and needed some more discussion. That wasn't done. That's fine. We're here where we are. I'm going to base my decision on governance, not whether I feel like this was done for a political reason or governmental reason. But I'll say this, some of the things that have been put out there about what's going to happen in these six months, let's have hard truths. I've always been very blunt with everybody, and here's the hard truth. We're not going to be able to do those things in 6 months.
» So, everybody up here better be prepared to extend this thing for about 18 months because what's on that list won't happen in 6 months. And by the way, it's going to cost money, not just legal fees. And it will cost legal fees. You're going to have to bring in people to do studies. That's not free. Anyone who's told you that this can be done without spending money are they're wrong. So, this is going to take some money and it's going to take some some investment of both time, human capital, and funds. A moratorium is like closing a road. If you do it with no plan to fix it and no funds to fix it, it's absolutely freaking pointless. So right now we're closing a road with some promises of six-month turnarounds that aren't going to happen.
» So in six months if this doesn't get continued, understand we'll be in a situation where nothing will get better. I fully support smart growth. Had we done this with a little more time, we could have come in with the funding and infrastructure and plans in place to do it right. I think we're put I think we're going a little bit tail wagging the dog here, but nonetheless, it's here. I support it. I've always said I'm supportive of it, so I'm supporting it tonight. But let's be real honest and we're going to have to come together because all this talk about budget and fees and taxes. I guess my my and we'll have more of this if we get to second reading on with this as amended, but you we're probably looking at $2 $300,000 in cost to do this the right way.
» You know, and and if I don't mind, I see our our budget genius, Tyler, who's the smartest guy I know in the room shaking his head. Two $300,000 to do this right. that doesn't exist in this current budget by the way. So that means an amendment on third reading to find that money. That's what that means. Now if you guys want an empty moratorium that says hey great we get to watch new tractors building new permits for 6 months. Fine. But that's all you're going to get. So let's be real honest about what this means. Let's not have the feel-good moment of yay we passed a mortorium. A moratorum is nothing. It's it's ethereal right? It's it does it's ephemeral rather. It doesn't really exist. It is simply something you do while you do something else.
» And we haven't even talked about the something else. So, let's just be real honest. I support this, but we are at the we're only at 2% and unfortunately it's the back 2%, not the first 2%. Those are my opinions. Thank you, Mr. Schumac. Any other comments or questions? I'd like to say that I agree with a lot of what you just said. I got something. Hold on. Mr. Jones gets a chance to speak first. Go ahead. I'm sorry about this. Let me tell you why I'm excited about it. First off, I don't want your vote. I'm not running again. I'm doing this because I believe this is the right thing for the people. They're running again. Let me tell you something about the amendment. I like the amendment. I don't like the the two houses.
» I I do agree with Russell on that, but I do like the amendment and I'm going to support the of the amendment because I want something done. But to sit here and try to say this was done for political reasons, look, I have no political ambition. I've been here 20 years. I think that if it hadn't been for Ned Towel calling Derek, Derek telling him to call me and then him calling Brandt, I mean, excuse uh Russell, this wouldn't even be on the table tonight. And not only that, they talk about surprising them. This was on the agenda last Thursday when they got it last Friday. I didn't see their amendment till tonight. So, who's keeping what from who? Don't sit there and tell me that I've ambushed y'all when it was on the agenda and you had time to read it. You never not a single person.
» No ambush me. I got the floor. Don't interrupt me while I got I didn't say you ambushed me. Just don't interrupt while I'm got the floor. But but Mr. Chairman, your little smile over there. I want to tell you something. You know as well as I know you called every single person you could but did not call me not one single time. So you want to talk who got ambushed tonight? But I'm happy about the ambush. I mean I am. We will get something done. But I want to tell you, we got a hardworking planning and zoning commission and they don't get any credit whatsoever and I commend them and I thank them for this. So you want to talk about political posturing or who's doing it for politics, don't vote for Jimmy Jones, okay? He's not coming back. But I'll tell you what, they they they want you vote.
» I'm not saying anything in here for political reasons. So that that Thank you. I've given 20 years of my life and I am dedicated to the people of this county. You call my number, I'm going to answer it. I've had some issues lately that I probably haven't been able to answer as quick, but it's physical issues that I'm having to deal with. But I'm going to tell you something, folks. I love this community. I love these people. I love you guys. And I am so happy that I've been able to be here. And and I don't hate these guys up here, but I don't like it when I feel like you want to call somebody political. I'm not political. But I'm going to tell you, not at this moment. But I want to thank everybody in here for being here tonight and seeing what you said. And I really mean that.
» And I'm going to support his ambush amendment. I don't even though I am, but it was on the agenda last Thursday for everybody to read. But uh thank you guys. And I may be done. I don't know. Depends on what else is said here tonight. But thank you. I would just like to add that this is a smart growth amendment is what I'm what I'm going with. So I don't take heat that is ambush amendment. It's more of a you were ambushed. It's it's more of a no growth amendment, but I've still got the concerns about how it affects a small builder and a small operator. Um I I'm I'm not a fan of the amendment for that reason. Um to clarify, we would still issue building permits for six months, right? For building permits as far as um new subdivisions. No. Oh, homes. Yeah.
» That I mean, anything that has already been approved before has no effect on this. Yeah. But if if if in 3 months I wanted to build a house, I can build a house. Absolutely. As long as it's not part of a minor subdivision. A minor or major subdivision. If if I owned a piece of property and it was my family's property and I wanted to divide it between me and my six siblings, could I do that for estate purposes? Uh there's a state law exemption on exempt subdivisions. So some divisions of property are not considered subdivisions at all. Um, one of those are familial um, uh, conveyances especially in association with um, intestasy in succession but um, I believe you can uh, pro gift and convey property to a familial descendant. So you you can still s survey and and subdivide land. Yeah.
» And I I again in that specific scenario where it's family transactions, I believe that would fall under state laws. If if I had say I had 1,500 acres in the northern part of the county and I wanted to sell half of it, could I split it in two and sell half of it? Yeah. If it had not um been subdivided uh previously like eight or nine times where that's pushing it over a lot, count and again Wait a minute. He he just said it includes minor subdivisions which is 0 to 10. So so if I had if I had a track of land, it was a timber track and I had a partner and I wanted to divide that track of land and I wanted to pay a surveyor. Yeah. Sub a parcel five acres or greater is also a state law exemption.
» You could take a 100 acre parcel and subdivide it to parcels greater than five acres and it's exempt under state law from subdivisions. Okay. So, so the the bottom would be five acres for 6 months. Correct. Now, again, there's no new streets created, etc., etc., but out five acre parcels. It's it's permissible as a state law exemption broadly. Again, speaking in broad terms, not specifics, but generally, yes, five five acres or larger can be divided, right? And and I'll say this, I I appreciate everybody's passion. I I understand that none of us got a lot of time to understand this. I I think Danny, I got it a day before you did. I I talked um to Mr. Towel on Monday. So, um all of this was a little bit fast-paced. I I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that at all.
» Um, so thanks for the clarification. Thank you, Mr. Brazzle. Any further discussion? Yes, if I may, let me say something. I think the planning is commission. We'll be thrilled over this tonight. Jimmy, just want to mention that everyone gets a chance to speak first under Robert Schules before someone speaks second. And we had someone interest yield to to Mr. No, no, you go ahead, sir. Age before beauty. No. Go ahead. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. If you thinking you're prettier than me, we got a problem. Um, it is. I'll have to go ahead, Mr. Jones. Now, you made me forget what I was going to say. U, let me let me just say this. The the the the plan that was presented to me by the planning and zoning department, they they were screaming for help.
» I think they're going to be probably like me. Of course, we got a planning zoning director here tonight. I mean, excuse me, the uh chairman here, and I think he'll say that they they something's got to change. We've got to slow things down. So, we're getting that done. But, uh anyway, thank you so much. Go ahead, Mr. Kato, with your wisdom. Mr. Kato, you're recognized, please. Thank you. U first of all, I'd like to ask the timeline of the ZLDR. When when are we looking when should this be complete? because I've been on council for 2 years now and it's been talked about ever since. So, somebody needs to get on the ball and let's get this thing going. They are on the ball. Well, they're meeting four times a month.
» My my thing and you don't have to holler at me because I I'm not hollering at you. I'm just talking because I I just Please, Mr. Kato, Mr. Jones, no one interrupted you. Please yield while he has the floor. So, you'll get to speak again. I I want to know, you know, I don't want this thing to be extended. I want us to get I want us to get a solution. I don't want it to continue and us end up having to and I think Mr. Bryzel would agree with this. We we don't want this thing extended if we can get it done in 6 months. Let's get it done. If we you know we don't we don't want to go on and on. We want a solution. We don't want to kick the can down the road anymore. Well, why don't you talk to the planning zoning commissioner? Why don't you lower your voice, please? My hearing is not that bad.
» You know, I'm I'm I'm very upset with the fact that you get up here and you holler and you shout to try and get people's attention and I'm sitting here trying to talk while I have the floor. Okay. And then you want to say it's a political thing when our poor budget manager up there is just trying to make a a solution or explain something and you claim his comment was motivated. I want you to relax. Mine was not politically I want you to relax. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. Um Mr. I was not politically motivated. Okay. I'm trying to do what's right. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. And y'all, you can do a set of it or make childish jokes. Yeah. And it don't make you look Well, I've heard what you said. I've heard what you said behind my back as well, sir. Congratulations.
» All right, gentlemen. Anyway, let's defer to anyone else who has not said before we hear from someone else again. Point of order. Can we call the vote? Thank you. Agreed. agreed. All right, we are on the Tomlinson amendment. Um, we'll go ahead and move it to a vote. I'm sure I'll have more to say on the actual um actual vote. So, all in favor on the Tomlinson amendment, raise your hand. We've got Shoemake, Kato, Tomlinson, and Jones in favor of the amendment. So, the amendment passes. We're now back on to the uh the original motion by Mr. Jones in first reading. I'm going to chime in. So, each of these gentlemen up here and and I heard Mr. Jones, not singling you out at all, but I heard Mr. Jones say for many years that he represents the entire county.
» And I'm sure some of these folks really do feel that way, but they have insular districts and uh and tend to I mean, that's your only votership. It just literally people outside your district can't vote for you. I've tried to take a holistic approach to this. Um Mr. Kato, I'm glad you got a call. I didn't get a call at all. This is I like to study and be very deliberate as well on these issues. And just for a little bit of a timeline, you know, I do support controlling growth. I support smart growth.
» One of the things I think we should have celebrated the most on the agenda tonight um and got drowned out a little bit perhaps, but we got a business coming here that wants to invest $12 million and bring 50 jobs so that people can work here, be near their families, and have good income and we don't have to experience a brain drain. I talk to these businesses regularly and a lot of them are really intrigued and interested in the workforce development program that we have that occurs at Central Carolina. You've got Woolard Tech there as well. Economic development is there and you also have the Chamber of Commerce all on the same campus. Nobody else in the state has that.
» And so they get excited knowing that they can have graduates coming off making high-paying jobs and and being trained through that program. And so I I try to take a holistic approach at this and really want to celebrate that development which is jobs, not increased residential houses. But I feel like I have to just stand up and say something about individual property rights because I have not heard that focused on very much tonight. There is a world in which I perhaps could have supported a moratorum that was narrowly tailored and I will be asking our attorney tonight on particularly legal issues that I see with this um apparently hastily done on a special called meeting that's now landed before us um ordinance.
» it didn't go through the normal channels of being deliberate and thought about and researched. And I'll I'll share a few a few facts I hope uh in my feverish research over the last few days that will make some sense. And so in if you're going to impact a a private property right, it has to be narrowly tailored in my opinion and I think our legal council would concur with that that you have to narrowly tailor it to the least restrictive means possible. So in asking around and doing research, I've discovered that the primary concern is in the Westwatery area with the explosive growth that's occurring over there, particularly along the river corridor.
» Okay, I get that that area and some of the current concerns that are literally stated in black and white on this uh this draft ordinance don't have too much to do if you're not on sewer in East Camden or Bthoon or Cassid as an example. Um if you're not near the Watery River at all and one of the stated purposes here is we need to have a a scientific research study done all along the watery river to determine storm water. So, it's very difficult for me to look at a hightraic area in West Water and say you have to be treated the same or particularly someone who's in a remote portion of the county, you have to be treated the same. We're just going to say you can't do anything with your property for it's 6 months on the face here, but I'll get to why it would actually be much longer.
» Um, I have a real issue with that. And I think you have to stand up for personal property rights and respect that someone who has if they're if it's 5.1 acres near sewer, I think they should be able to do what they want to with their property and subdivide it or sell it. Um, they've been t paying taxes on it perhaps for a really long time and they've earned that right in my opinion. If there are 10.1 acres and they're going to do septic, I think they should be able to subdivide and do what they want to with their property if they want to sell it to uh maybe something that's not exempt. You indicated, Mr. Bose that that children and perhaps family transfers um might be okay over 5 acres, but I think you should really stand up and recognize personal property rights.
» Um the reason that aund day 80day time period, which everyone is promising, you know, we would stay within that time period, it's just not possible. Um I was trying to find some authority I could ask about how long does it take to do this type of river corridor overlay district study. And again, there was a world in which I could say major subdivisions, I tend to agree with Mr. Brazzle, major major subdivisions are having the major impact. We need to focus on those. Let's not hit the small mom and pops and individuals that maybe that's their retirement. Um, you know, that that land has a lot of meaning to people and uh to me it's rooted in liberty, what they can do with it.
» But there was a world in which if the if the mortorium had been drawn along the watery river and perhaps a highway one corridor where there's dense population, high traffic counts, I probably could have gone with that. I proposed that and discussed it some and there wasn't a lot of interest there. It would make sense to allow other people in the county to do what they need to and what they want to with their property. Um and then address the areas of direct concern. Camden's already under a direct moratorum and so that's a significant portion of the population that's taken up. Um but back to timeline. So I I thankfully got a call back from um Ryan Carter today.
» And so the same authority that we're looking to with the Kataba Rivereper organization that's been around for 27 years in making a contribution for Lingia um that issue and fighting that issue up on Lake Water and that you know trickles down into the river. that same authority when I asked him you're you're aware of this issue that we have a mortorium proposed and coming up and he said yes I said how long would a study like this take the draft period is proposed to be 6 months only not to extend right and so I've confirmed that any type of securing of a consultant in this way has to follow procurement state law we can't v violate the law you have to follow procurement just got an average from uh a few of the last procurement projects we went through and that bid process is a two and a half
» to three month process. Okay, so there's half of your six months and then going back to the authorities on the matter and I would have been glad to have them here but this was such short notice that we're not able to actually have some of these folks here might be able to speak intelligently about it. It would have been nice to talk to experts in much more detail and maybe even have them attend. But a study of this nature has to go on for at least 12 months. And let me in my layman's way try to explain why. What I learned was if you include storm water and some of those drainage concerns related to a watershed, you have to do it for a full year because you have to catch all four seasons. You can't do it just in hurricane season.
» If you do it in hurricane season, your data will be skewed uh for high water table and serious drainage issues. You can't do it just in the dry season because you'll miss hurricane season. And so you have to get the dry and the wet portions of the year to have an average out to understand what the study even means. Your data will be skewed either way. And so um for those reason then and then just some practical ones like in following up with staff. One of the stated uh facts that we're supposed to adopt and condone is that there's uh 2,000 pending lots. Staff informed me it's 1443 is the actual number. And so I can't adopt a number that's not actually accurate. And you want to adopt the budget, Mr. Jones? I think we had adequate explanation tonight from Mr. Tyler on that.
» Um, while I still have the floor, I was completely fine with his explanation and understood it as well. And the the thing that's curious to me is on process if you really wanted this to have a chance at success because it's the first time it's ever happened in Kershaw County and should be treated as such. We would have had this conversation maybe a month, month and a half ago, two months ago, something like that before budget work sessions occur and say how do we figure out how do we pay for a moratorum? Um, if it was, if you want to give it the least chance of success, it would happen in a special called meeting that just lands before county council when nobody can really talk to anybody or research it or really think about it. And it would be done after first reading in the budget.
» Like the budget's already been we've already gone through the work sessions to to fund what was important and set his priorities in the budget work sessions with council. And so, um, for those reasons and the fact that it now includes minor subdivisions before us, I cannot support this. We're we're talking about impacting mom and pops and individual home builders. Mr. Brazzle calls some names. There's Mo Denton and several other highquality builders. Stacy, um, who would be impacted by this in a way in which I haven't been able to discuss with any stakeholders in a meaningful way. And then beyond that, it's going to be a lot longer than six months.
» you're looking at at least 12 months of data gathering after 3 months of procurement to find the experts to do it and then uh they would crunch the numbers, give us a report and this council as a body would deliberate and make some decision on it. So again I could have favored at some point a u a moratorum that was very narrowly tailored narrowly drawn. Is that a fair assessment Mr. Deose that you have to identify the least restrictive means to accomplish an important government interest? Yeah. Yes. more or less you identify the issue that you are trying to address and then you should try and use the most the least restrictive means to accomplish that that uh goal. Okay. I may have some more comments but that's uh that's just my thoughts.
» I usually speak last but I just wanted to say that Mr. Sheumake. Um yeah, so I have a couple questions. Um you know I I was kind of you know I see Mr. Mr. Brazel voted against it and obviously Council Brazil and I have worked hand in hand on a lot of the growth issues up to this point. Um, Mr. Templar, am I correct in what I said before? I mean, I want to make sure because I've talked to staff and I, as Chairman Connell mentioned, this moved extremely fast. Am I correct that it it could be tens of thousands if not likely six figures to do the work that is required or that that is mentioned that is going to be done under the mortorium? Is that fair? We're looking at six figures. Yes, sir. And is it fair to say that money is not in the budget right now? No, sir. It is.
» Is it in the Is the money in the budget? The No, I'm sorry. I misspoke. The uh the money is not in the budget. Uh this is not something we plan for. Councilman Brazzle, what would you think about referring this to finance and and pushing it for another vote? I mean, I want this to be something, you know, when this was when I was first contacted about this, the understanding was this had unanimous support from the planning commission. It came from them from as a split vote, and it's up here before us now with a split vote with two of the people that have worked most on growth, if I do say so myself, splitting on this issue. So, I'm just curious, and if you don't feel comfortable, I I'm not trying to put you on the spot.
» I'm just trying to, you know, what we're going to do here tonight is a bit irrevocable if it goes forward. And I'm just curious what your thoughts are on sending it to finance because if we can't pay for work during I've heard Councilman Kato say he doesn't want to extend it past 6 months. I understand that. Um and if we're going to if we have a moratorum that we know for a fact is really going to last a year. I just have some real concerns with that and I was just curious. I'd like to get your input on that. Councilman Brazzle. Never apologize to me for putting me on the spot. I was built for this. Well, good. So what you you understand what I'm telling you? Yeah. I was built for this moment with you and or anyone else. I want you to hear me when I say this.
» Every amendment that was made tonight was made to kill this administrator. Agree. Did we get the grant from the rural infrastructure authority for Pecan Orchard? That was part of my briefs. No, it was turned down. How much money did we put up to match that grant? It was around 200 $230,000. It was a It was a 25% match. I just found the money needed. [Music] Now, you you hear me when I say this. I was made I was made I was made talking to I was made for doing professional meeting I was made I was made for doing the right thing for the people. I ran my campaign for less than $5,000. You can look at my ethics reports and see who gave me money and who didn't give me money. I'm not here representing anybody. I'm not here representing anybody and I'm not even a trained lawyer.
» Call the vote chairman, please. Well, we got to see if anybody else wants to have any discussion or comments that had I I do about the cost if I could please, Mr. Jones. And I want to tell you something right now. I have so much respect for Russell Brazzle. He's a warrior and let me tell you something. He stands up for the people in Kershaw County. You see what you get out of that man. And I know some of my folks don't like him. Some of his folks don't like me. But he and I work well together. And let me tell you something. When he speaks, I'll listen. I listen to what he has to say. You may and he has never ever ambushed me as I've been ambushed tonight. But I want to say something about the cost. Uh we're talking about the cost with the overlay district.
» You know, my colleagues are saying that there isn't any funding for this in the budget. Well, we need to find some and we can find it and Mr. Brazzle just found it. First, I don't think this will be as expensive as everyone is saying. Second, I think we need to look at our priorities as a council. My colleagues seem to find spending millions of dollars on public recreation projects, but now they are saying we don't have enough money to fix our subdivision regulations. I don't think this will cost as much as I am hearing. That's just my opinion. But even if it does, the cost is a small fraction of what we have spent on parks for the last two years. Third, we are a well, we are on our second reading of the budget tonight and you heard that.
» Everyone sitting here and heard it and we heard the the the M Brazle. Thank you. I have a hard time believing that we can't find or we can't fund efforts to improve our subdivision regulations. Okay, this deals with where our citizens live and where they raise their families. So, and I don't oppose developers, but something's got to be done. And and let me tell you something, folks. It has been talked about for a long time tonight, but thank God. Thank God that that our planning commission sent this to us and we got it up here for some results tonight. And I see the hands doing this. I see y'all there. I get it. I get it. I get it. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any further comments or discussion? Nope. Mr. uh Chairman, Mr. Tucker, if I may.
» Um, I've sat here and listened very diligently to everyone who has spoke, but I I just want to give a little bit of homework out for um for all of us, the ones that sit up here on this dis as elected officials as well as the people in the audience. Um, a lot of us outside of Lexington County thought they were just plum crazy when they did the moratorum, but what we didn't realize is that they took about a year to get that in place. Then it took another 18 to 24 months to um implement it and get it right. Um, I'm not um completely against a moratorum, but I do want to make sure that we take the proper steps. And uh, Councilman Brazzle, I appreciate you pointing out where some money can be found.
» Um, but I still would like an estimate on costs on what that's going to look like from staff and our legal counsel. And, um, I'm not, um, beyond going about this moratorum in the right way. Um, I don't want to be part of a lawsuit that has triggered already once because it seem as if we target a builder or developer. That I won't do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chair, may may I just You had u What's your name? Shoemake. M I'm sorry. Mr. Shoemake. Yes. What was the proposal you made to Russell Brazzle about? I I withdraw that. I'm not I'm not going to work with someone who screams at me. So, we're fine. We can go forward. I'm ready to support it. Again, I'll I'll amend it to say every resident. So, I was trying to find a common ground, but apparently somehow that made me evil.
» So, I'm ready to go. Okay, Mr. Jones, we all need prayer up here. Let me see. Is there is there is there any interest at all in narrowing this thing to something that applies to the densely populated areas and the stated area of concern? Make amendment, Mr. Chairman, along the Watery River. It's just discussion. I don't have to make an amendment. Yeah, but if you you're saying what you would do make an amendment. I may support you in that. Yeah, I I would like to see if there's interest. I think rational minds just let me finish the discussion, please, Mr. Jones. I think rational minds have to come together on this issue and realize that if you're talking about minor subdivisions, this is mom and pop or small home builder for not 6 months.
» I I am not this is not blustering for over 6 months, more likely over a year after 3 months of procurement after we vote uh in two more readings. You go through three months of procurement and then you're looking like a year at least for the study. I'm not comfortable with that and and looking small home builders and local craftsman in the eye. Maybe a major subdivision restriction along the Watery River corridor. There's been discussion of 10,000 ft linear from either side of the river on down through the river and there's a bunch of squiggles in there. So, I'd let people who uh are engineers and measure that kind of stuff figure it out. that still is yet to say, you know, it has to at some points, I guess, go to finance for um funding appropriation under our rules.
» Um even if someone has found money or identified funds, it still has to go through finance on rules that I didn't set. The prior council voted on those rules. Uh and then I think it's a 14-day window. I just looked back at the rule after that issue was brought up, 14-day window that it goes back to council for recommendation. So what interest gentlemen do we have on reaching some type of compromise where a remote non sewer on septic so they're not on sewer and they have a well so they're not on water uh in Cassid or East Camden or Bthoon or somewhere out that way have just one acre or two acres or three acres and they want to subdivide and do something with their property. Are we still going to impact them with this type of vote? Please some discussion. Well if you don't mind. Yes sir.
» Please. Mr. Kato, I think that we we on this side of the the watery river is also concerned about growth. Whether it be Bthoon, Casset, Westful, or whether it be around Red Fox Road or out around Dusty Ben, everybody's concerned about it. So, I don't think singling out one particular part of the county is going to help the overall growth. I think we're talking about overall growth and and what what I would like to call responsible growth. So, I would like to see responsible growth on on this end of uh of the county also on the northern end of the county. And I say northern, I mean north of the the river. So, I I I don't know if I could support just one particular area.
» I'd like to see it um I'd like to see it cover the county so that we can make sure that that that growth is is responsible in the future. Well, just just in response just in response, I mean that's the definition of an overlay district. It it um or corridor applies to one specific area at least for that part which is what I was referring to. Any other uh comments or discussion? One last thing. I apologize to my colleague. I did not mean to get so hotteered. It's just that uh there there's been a lot of um mis misspeak about how this came about and a lot of it was directed towards me early on and you all received an email from me clarifying that. I will state publicly I did not appreciate the way I was treated. Um you were not one of those people.
» So if I took some of that anger out on you, it was an accident and I apologize. Well, let me say something. First off, I love you and your apologies. Obviously accept it. And and to you too, Councilman Jones. I didn't apologize. I know you didn't. I know you didn't. But listen, but I I want to say, listen, my com I made some comments about this being political and I do not withdraw those, but let me be very clear. I was not referring to anyone on this body. Okay? I was referring to things that happened outside of this body. I believe there was a political operation at foot to try to force this down all our throats to cause this division. And maybe I'm wrong at a conspiracy theorist. I don't know. Um, but that that was what I was referring to.
» But I'm uh I'm ready for the the vote unless we have a compromise amendment on the floor. I would like if Mr. Jamaican, I do accept your apology. Thank you. I uh did you apologize? I don't think so. Sure. I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman Carell, you know, you were making some points of there. Mr. Jones, could you maybe com why don't you put an amendment together and see where I'm thinking one right now, but I also want to clarify a couple legal issues. It's good to talk it, but let's walk it. Yes, sir. Um, I want to clarify a couple legal issues based on the new um environment we're in of minor subdivisions. So, I mean, this is this is truly our neighbors. So, Mr. Mr.
» Deose, if say between now and second reading, I know you don't want to deal with the hypothetical, but you're just mine, but between now and second reading, say it becomes clear that a study of the type that that is one of the wherees that says we have to do it in the study can't be done within 6 months. Maybe it takes 18 months. Would the ordinance be void on its face for failure to be able to accomplish the purpose that's stated in the moratorum? So in enacting a moratorum, I'll I'll answer your question with a little bit of a I guess 101 or 202. Um the if you enact a moratorum as a local government, you have to identify an issue, you have to have a finite period of time and once you identify the issue, you actually have to work on it.
» Do you necessarily have to bring it all the way to fruition in the six months? um not necessarily but the moratorum on its face expires in six months. If that some component of it is not completed in six months the moratorium would lapse unless extended by council. So um again I think if the lion share of task within a moratorum can be accomplished and the local government actually does what it says it intends to do. Um, again, things come up, things take longer, I don't necessarily think it would make it facially void, and just for what it's worth, um, if more information were gained or or that portion of it was not achievable in 6 months, um, the moratorium could expire and that work could continue on perhaps um, without a moratorum, the specific river study.
» Um I guess so that's a long answer not a yes or no but um again it's a fairly nuanced topic and moratoriums and their permissible scope and time is also a fairly nuanced topic. All right so I'd like to put forth a um an amendment by way of motion and the chair doesn't typically make motions but uh in this circumstance it feels appropriate. So, I'll make a motion that we amend uh the current uh Tomlinson amendment that we have before us. We're back on as amended that within 10,000 ft of the watery river's edge. So, this would cover 97, I believe. I was given the number and measured and it would cover highway 5 in that direction. So, you cover your river corridor and river district study for a six-month period. I'm not changing the time period.
» Maybe y'all can find somebody who can work miracles and and get it done in less than four seasons and somehow account for the dry season and hurricane season. And then within 5,000 ft of Highway 1 and I20, we put in this temporary moratorum that accounts for the most densely populated areas in the county.
» allows other folks and I just mentioned those areas because I've got a lot of friends out there but there are remote parts of Elgen there remote parts of Lugof down 601 in that area that um in my opinion I don't think we have a real justifiable basis to impact their property rights in such a negative way to include minor subdivisions and that's my motion repeat it one more time yeah so my motion is on the Tomlinson amendment um on the Tomlinson amendment and also So, I think we should I think we should exclude u plan development districts because the whole purpose is you can't file by right if I'm not incorrect there Mr. Tom uh Mr. Templar or I'm not sure if we have Joey here but you can't file by right you essentially have to come to council and indicate what you'd like to do correct Mr.
» Dose yes and so that's not something that can be filed by right anyway and so if we're trying to get to discussions with developers about smart development I think that's one of the ones that we should uh that was included in my amendment that it was exempted. Yes. Okay. So, so PDDDs and single family were part of the exclusion of the amendment. Maintaining that exemption, my motion would be within 10,000 ft of the Watery River's Edge and 5,000 ft of Highway 1 or I20, uh, we have this moratorum put in. That's my motion. Is there a second? Don't mind subdivision. It doesn't have definition. Well, there's if there's no second, then the motion fails. If it had if it had more definition. Well, if I had more time. I know.
» Um, so I I'll make an amendment just as as Councilman Connell did to uh Mr. Tomlinson's amendment that may be a happy median. um will be compromised to minor subdivisions being defined in the short term as five homes or less. Um so if we're in discussion, I think that would require three readings in a vote to amend the extra. There's no way to There's no way to Well, as a point of order, well, yeah, your your amendment, if it's specifically supersedes uh I mean, Tomlinson's amendment right now is the law of the case, for lack of a better correct term. So, it is passed. Um I believe it would have to be um reconsidered or and then amended um from a parliamentary standpoint. And the only people that could reconsider that amendment would be the prevailing parties to that amendment.
» Now, um, your motion to amend his for five is the number. Sorry, I'm working through this parliamentary process. M, it probably fine if Yeah, if y'all have majority vote, it would overrule I think the prior amendment. Um, so yeah, perhaps it can proceed. Okay. So, is that a yes or no? Make it make it in the form of a motion again, please. All right. I know everybody's tired of talking about this. Yeah. And you're not even talking, right? Um, Councilman, if I may. I so right now with with the short time period that I I've even had to think of this and this is something that I crunched over the weekend while my family and I were in Buford for a ceremony for a um a road being dedicated after my my wife's grandfather's name who was a World War II veteran passed away prior to her being born.
» So we were down there we came back we had baby shower. So during that time, I'm sitting here looking at it and looking at kind of um what I felt was right for Kershaw County and and I talked to actually a lot of small builders in general and they said that I mean a lot of them saying there's they're behind right now. They got they got enough work to for them to handle for the next year. U majority of them do and it's still not taking the fact away that they can build a single family residence. So they, you know, their local builders are the one who's going to be who going to be contracted to build those single family homes. Um, and so with that part, I I I'm not trying to hurt local builders. I completely agree.
» I'm I'm pro anybody here in Kershaw County as as we voted for for a gentleman who tried to re resone a property. Um, you know, I think there's there's things we can we can look at, but for for right now, just kind of the timeline I'm on, I I think minor subdivisions and and our or ordinances um are anything less than 10 lots. And I want to stick with that for right now. You know, you make a good point and the point you just made is the small builder. You don't want to hurt them. They are in direct competition with the national builders and every small builder I've talked to as well says they are working me out of a job. So, I will support it with your amendment. Thank you. Any further discussion or comments? All right.
» Well, gentlemen, before we call it to a vote, I'll just close with I really think this is going to take longer than 6 months based on the study information. We might be educated. I might be educated and with such a short period of time to do some research. I might learn something new between now and uh the next reading. I hope y'all will have open dialogue and communications with that. But um with minor subdivisions being included, I just can't vote in favor of this because I think it'll impact people's property rights too much um too substantially. And I don't think, as I said before, that it's the least restrictive way to accomplish this goal. And we got three readings. We do have three readings. Yep. All right.
» Um just to make sure we're clear on the amendment, including minor subdivisions, exempting PDDs, and single family and and single family. Okay. Yes. All right. All right, with no further discussion, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor of the mortorium on the Tomlinson amendment, which is the one on the floor. We've got Schumank in favor. Brazle in favor. Mr. Kato, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Jones in favor. All against Mr. Tucker, Mr. Connell against. Thank you, gentlemen. That takes Is that a 5-2 vote now? I couldn't hear. Correct. 52. takes us to the next agenda item which is let me grab this hand. Oh goodness gracious. All right. Um 10 A next agenda item 10 A. Lug Fire Department budget. [Music] Can you give me just a minute Mr. Chair? Yeah. Let's let let's let everybody clear out.
» And by the way, anybody on council need a quick break? Yes. Yeah. This is particularly long meeting. We're going to take a quick uh let's take a 3minut recess. Thank you. We're in recess. And we're back. Thank you for Thank you for having the mics on. This brings us to item 10A, Lugall Fire Department budget. Um, Fire Chief Chris Spitzer. This would involve two potential motions. One will be to bring up uh Chief Spitzer so we can hear from him on the presentation and the second one would be in relation to any budget that is presented. Do we have a motion? I make a motion that we um hear from Mr. Spitzer on his 2526 budget. Thank you, ma'am. All right, we've got a first. Is there a second? Mr. Shoe has a second. Chief Spitzer, please come up for your presentation. Thank you, sir.
» Chief, they fighting over you this time. They fighting over you for the motion in second this time. I was waiting on you actually. I was just glad y'all got some energy left. I thought we was going to need a fire hose up here. What you think? Well, we may have a few out there in in the parking lot. I just got a couple piece of paper here I'm getting here together. The packet was sent over um on Tuesday and I know Miss Hannah took care of that for me. Thank you for doing that for me, Miss Hannah. You're always so great. So, um members of council and chairman, um it's unfortunate, but we have uh I have struggled with this since January. the um the the budget has been really tough this year. Um we're no different from anybody else.
» Um and I made this on uh on May 19th, Lug Fire Department Board of Commissioners unanimously approved the new tax increase and of course we held a public hearing with no opposition. Um no one showed up for opposition. I didn't receive the first phone call. Of course, we ran everything in the paper like we were supposed to and advertised in the in the manner we were supposed to. So, in the past, and I spoke with this in in depth with my with my uh board of commissioners, is I've taken great pride in the last 13 years of not having to raise taxes. And when you sit down and think about that, that is absolutely unbelievable that a government agency has not raised taxes in 13 years. And I took great pride in that.
» And I I I you know, I stand up here every year and I haven't been chief for 13 years. I became chief in 2017. And but the research shows that it's been back since 2012 that we asked for a tax increase. Now, we did get the fire fee increase in 2022 um when the uh Kershaw County Fire Service received that fire or fire fee increase. So, I really kind of lay that blame on me because over time, instead of taking so much pride in balancing the budget, I should have been more focused on trying to equal this thing out over time and I did not do that. which brought me to of course having to get in touch with our uh with our fire department attorney Lawrence Flynn from Pope and Flynn, one of the best special purpose district attorneys in the uh in the state and getting with him.
» So we since we have not gone and and and sought um a tax increase, we were able to go back of course the previous three years which brought us to 2022. And what we saw was we've had um of course growth. Growth has been um one of the biggest issues that we've seen. Um we've outgrown the fire department. We've outgrown staffing. 2022 um we had a CPI of 1.23% a population growth of 1.08% and 2023 CPI of 8%. population growth of 2.47%. 2024, we saw a CPI of 4.12% with a population growth of 4.87%. And as of the time that these numbers were run, approximately 2 months ago in 2025, um CPI was at 2.95% with a population growth of 2.21%. And of course, we aren't finished growing. um that's still going to continue. Now, it's been a very hot topic tonight.
» So, what has happened is one of the reasons why we have not sought increases because we've been so successful with getting grants and the grants have dried up. We just don't have access to them anymore. And it's unfortunate because in the last 10 years, we received $1.1 million in grants. And I contribute that to uh Battalion Chief Chris Jones who works his butt off to write these grants for us. And I want to thank every member that has showed up here tonight and sat through uh roughly three and a half hours of county council with some very important topics that was taken care of tonight. What we've seen is of course we had federal grants, state grants, local grants, but here's what's happened. All of our vendors have not changed their pricing.
» Their pricing still remains the same as if we're still getting handed millions of dollars when we're not. The average firefighter stepping off of a fire truck equipped from head to toe is wearing $26,000 worth of equipment that is made to survive one thermal event. meaning exceeding a certain temperature level. Friday night, we lost a set of gear to a structure fire because we exceeded the certain temperature level. Now, did we lose the full 26,000? No. The SCBA made it through. The radio made it through. The helmet did not make it through. The pants, the coat did not make it through. The boots made it through, but the gloves and the helmet included did not make it through. That's going to be roughly $6 or $7,000.
» We had a wreck on not a wreck, we had a fire on the interstate approximately two years ago, and I spoke in depth about this with our chairman, Connell. That one fire alone on a packaging truck cost my fire department $19,000 to put out. That's $19,000 that we don't recoup, that we don't see, we we just can't afford to keep doing this. The average firefighter who I care for deeply within my organization, the average firefighter is making $1543 within our organization, putting their life on the line every single day. And let me tell you something, if you think they're not, you're sadly mistaken. You know, I hear all the time when I'm out and about and I'm and I'm listening to folks that say, "Hey, man.
» Did you see what happened on live PD last night and I'm sitting there thinking, you have no idea what's going on in your own county. It's the same thing. The same things are happening. What these these these firefighters are exposed to is unbelievable. If you go back and look at firefighter deaths, firefighter issues, firefighter uh fatalities, it's not happening in the big cities. It's happening in the small towns in the cities like we reside in. And it's unfortunate. I will tell you this. If I do not get this budget increase, I have prepared a budget that is balanced. And with that balanced budget, I will have to cut 11 line items in half. I will have to lay off or fire approximately seven part-time firefighters who make up a very large portion of our fire department.
» I will not be able to give any firefighter any increase cost of living, any promotions, any money related to promotions, not just the simplest 3% cost of living raise that I think everybody deserves. Again, we proposed and speaking with our attorney, we were eligible for 7.62 62 mills, which equates to $400,000. That's $400,000 is going to make the difference between life or death for us. When I have to go back and look at my budget and figure out that I gotta call cut fire equipment in half, when I figure out that I have to cut training in half, when I figure out how I have to cut my professional fees in half to afford our attorney, but what it does is it also affects our ISO rating.
» If we're not meeting the standards, whether it comes to equipment, whether it comes to manpower, whether it comes to training, then our ISO rating goes up. We are a proud fire department with a ISO rating of two. The best you can possibly get as a one. We are a two in Lugoff. We are saving taxpayers money on homeowners insurance. We worked extremely hard to achieve that and we've got to ensure that we can keep that up. It broke my heart. I lost so much sleep. My staff noticed that I was acting different. My staff noticed that I was not the same guy. Of course, my wife obviously noticed. But I lost sleep over having to ask for a tax increase. And I'm still losing sleep because this ain't done yet.
» It broke my heart because I was always so proud of balancing the budget without asking for a tax increase. But I can no longer ask for that. I can no longer settle for that. And I think I gave y'all a little hint last year when I gave my budget to county council. And I remember you, Mr. Tucker, looking at me and saying after I said, "Don't forget, I'll be coming for you next year." And you in turn said, "We'll just have your numbers ready." That's right. Well, my numbers are ready and our vote, our board of commissioners voted unanimously to increase our taxes. 7.62 mills, which will bring us from 25.8 to 33.4 brings an additional $400,000 in to the Lug Fire Department. That's guesstimated. That's estimate.
» I don't want us to focus on the on the on the millage increase because we're just only we're only 53.8 8 square miles that 7.62 mills in the county would would just be astronomical. But we're only talking about tiny little Lugoth. But we're talking about Lug Fire Department to where we are wore out. We are tired. Our guys are just working to the bone. They're running so many calls. April, according to our stats, was the busiest month we've ever had in the history of Lugall Fire Department since 1968. When I first came with Lug Fire Department in 2013, we're running approximately 500 calls a year. We're over 2100 calls this year, and we're we haven't completed the year yet. We're running million-dollar fire trucks up and down the road for medical calls. But let me tell you something.
» I wouldn't change that a bit because our prehosp intervention is unbelievable. We have saved so many lives and I will not change that. with the additional $400,000 that allows me to hire four additional firefighters, bring my staffing up, put a little bit in our contingency fund, and keep us level and exactly in line where we currently are on the 25 24 25 budget. I'm not getting any big huge increases. Health insurance is going up 9 to 11% every single year. I don't have human resources. I have Miss Rhonda who helps me. I don't have a finance committee. I don't have anybody to help me with those things. All those things I do myself. I have to shop around every year for insurance. Retirement's up 21.24% for employer contribution. Everything is rising. Workman's comp is up.
» We've had a lot of workman's comp claims. We've had a lot of firefighters hurt. And when I go back and say I want I want the this council to understand when I say I have to lay off seven part-time firefighters that is part of our family that makes up the fabric of Lugall Fire Department. Without those folks we cannot meet our minimum staffing requirements. Without those folks we cannot meet the staffing requirements set forth by ISO. And that breaks my heart to know that I've got to cut seven positions loose if I cannot get a increase in taxes. I'm here tonight to propose that my board of commissioners and it's in your packet adopted our budget with additional 7.62 mills which would bring our current millage rate up from 25.8 to 33.4.
» And again, it would bring a roughly in $400,000 in revenue to the Lol Fire Department. That's my presentations and I am open to any questions. Thank you, Chief. Any questions or comments before? Yes, sir. Mr. Tucker. Yes, sir. If you don't mind, couple quick questions, Chief Spitzer. One being um is there any fees at all increased in this? No, sir. We're keeping the fee exactly where we're at right now. The only thing we're asking for is the millage increase. All right. And do you know on the millet what is that looking like per household? Did you It is roughly $310 per $10,000. Okay. Per. So $100,000 home is going to cost you additional $30 a year. Okay. $200,000 home $60 a year. $300,000 home $90 a year. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Any other comments, questions? I was writing, but it's okay.
» Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Mr. Tucker. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Chief Spitzer, I'm going to say this to you because I've been here a long time approving this budget and um the old saying um from the Bible, you have not because you ask not. And I'm glad you've swallowed that pride in your call thing called your tongue to to come before us because what I do know is the cost of living uh living the cost of things are not going to go down. And um sometimes you have to come and ask uh when you probably know the answer already, but you still have to come and ask. And I say that because you never know until someone tells you you got that answer. That's what my parents used to say. You know your answer is no if you don't ask. But if you ask, you might get a yes.
» And what I can say, what I've realized about the citizens, they want a A1 fire department. They want those calls to be answered when they call in in in a fashion that is going to be of service to save lives and save injuries and structure and things of that nature. So people don't mind giving a little bit more when they've got A1 service, but you have to ask. And putting it on millet versus fees, it grows with your population, correct? versus the fees. Fees like buying a vehicle. I tell people this all the time. What happens to a vehicle when you drive it off the lot? It depreciates. Yes. That's what your fees do. Yes. Yeah. And the longer you go on them, the less their value are. I agree. So keep that in mind and share that with your folks and your citizens.
» And the main thing you can do is just keep educating your folks that you represent and that you serve and let them know this is why you have to do things. Not because you're greedy, not because you're not a good steward, none of that. But we appreciate all that you do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Any other questions, comments? Yeah, Chief, if I may. Go ahead, Mr. Fasel. You didn't necessarily ask to be in the hottest spot in Kershaw County, did you? The hottest growing area. I mean, that's that's who you're serving. You've Yeah. You're you're covering you're covering a lot of homes that are built side by side on small lots prior to zoning regulations. You didn't ask for that.
» So, I I hear where you're coming from and I want Lug Fire to know that I support them and their mission. And you and I both know that I'm a very conservative, fiscally minded individual. Yes. But I've seen you in action. I passed a Lugal Fire truck on 601 the other day and there was a horrendous wreck where a tractor trailer had turned over in front of the pilot station and there was a a minivan and I was a fear for the lives of the people involved. Yes, sir. and you guys were were there in moments and um we want to see you be able to continue to to respond like that. No different than we want to be able to see u the county's fire service be able to continue to respond like that. So, we appreciate you being here tonight and uh we really value you and our community. Thank you.
» I appreciate that. And but on behalf of my staff, I know they do as well. Yes, sir. Not my staff, they're my co-workers. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Brazle. Any other questions or discussion? Chief, I just want to say thank you. I thank you for your professionalism, how you bring this to us each year, and I appreciate that. You know, Mr. Jones has said this many times. I I represent District 6, but I represent the whole county. And I have a I have a daughter, a son-in-law, and a grandson that live right there in Lugof. Yes, sir. And I feel very comfortable with the services y'all provide. And I thank you for that. And you know, it's just the day and time we live in. We're going to have to face it that things are going up. So, I thank you. I thank you for what you do. I thank you, Mr. Kato.
» Thank you for always being there for me and listening to me. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Any other questions or discussion, council members? Chief, I'll just say thanks for uh covering my business. that ISO rating being low. Um, and you've actually controlled every variable you can. Some of it relates to hydrant locations and those kinds of things, but you don't have any control over. So, for every variable that Lugall Fire can control, they have got the max training. They got the max uh or best equipment. They've got really everything they need to keep your insurance rates relatively low and respond quickly. So, I appreciate that. Jim, if there's no further discussion as he's been called up, we need a Yeah, I tried to get your attention. You just didn't see me. Go ahead.
» Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chief, uh, one thing I will say to hear Mr. Brazle sit down there and say what he said about you is pretty good because he is a very conservative type person. Of course, so am I. Uh, I live in Lugoff and uh, I've watched your fire department grow. I was here along with Mr. Tucker all the years that you came in here. How many years you've been chief? Uh, eight. Eight years now. 2017. Is this the first time you've come in here? Second, I think it's the first. I mean, asking for a tax increase. Yes. Yes, sir. The first time, you know, in eight years. That's remarkable. Remarkable. What I don't want to see is you have to lay any of those young healthy guys off back there and girls and ladies, ladies. But, uh, I think you've done a fine job.
» You know, I've always supported you guys and I know we have put money and put money into our system, but I know one thing about it. The money we put into you is going straight to Lug Fire Department. Yes, sir. It's going for every penny you say it's going to Yes, sir. And if you tell me sit there and you're telling me that you would have to lay off X amount of people, there's no way I can not support you. And I know now I'm not your favorite anymore, but but bottom line is I'm still here and listen to me. I appreciate what y'all do. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Jones. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any other comments or discussion? All right.
» If not, we need a a motion in the form of approval of the unanimous recommendation that came from Chief Spitzer's board for the uh What's that? We did a motion for the presentation. Oh, I got you. Yeah, we did a motion for presation. We definitely have to have another motion to to confirm um the budget request you have which was if you'd clarify for us the mill number I have at uh 7.62. That's correct. And that equates to $400,000 approximately $400,000. That is correct. Is that the exact number or do you have That's not the exact number. That's based upon what u auditor and Mr. Arlage has given us. We're kind of conservative on it. We we try not to go too high or too low.
» We try to meet in the mi in the middle to make sure we're pretty comfortable about where we're what we're bringing in. Yeah. And before we get the motion, 7.62 is an exact number we can work off of. Correct. This would be um not us directly spending money as a council, but acknowledging uh the budget that Lug Fire Department and its own board wants to set for itself. Correct. Approving it. Is there a motion? Mr. Jones, don't call me out like that. I support you. I made the motion. We support the chief's request. Mr. Jones has a motion. Is there a second? Second. We have a second from Mr. Tucker. Any further discussion needed? We kind of covered it all. Any other discussion? Seeing none, we'll put it to a vote. All those uh in favor of the motion, Miss Hannah, it passes unanimously.
» Thank you, Chief Spitzer, for coming out tonight and waiting so long. No, thank you. And I do appreciate it along with uh my co-workers that are sitting behind me. Again, thank you so much for being who you are. and we really appreciate everything you do and working with you in the future. I know you have a couple of the best grant writers in the state. I hope that those grants journey up again and we can we can start to get them back. We can use them. All right. Thank you so much, Chief. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you, too. And all right, all the employees. Yeah. Thank you. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to uh we already had item 10B earlier in the meeting. That takes us item 10 C, request for onetime donation of $30,000 placed on the agenda by vice chairman Russell Brazzle.
» So I just wanted um for a point of clarification that we had sent this to finance. I did not see it. I probably overlooked it in the budget. You didn't over it. It's in there. I'll tell you. Go ahead. Okay. So, it's it's in there, but maybe I'm I'm going to just ask our chairman of finance to explain to me where it is in the budget, and I'd like to um to just ratify this tonight with a vote. Okay. Um you said chairman of finance. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Go ahead. So, um the 30 up to $30,000 was put into the budget uh that we just passed on second reading. Um it is um for the administrator to spend up to that. He is trying to figure out what other um folks are doing that has a part in this uh watery basin that we're trying to clear from algae. And so um that could be 10 that we contribute.
» That could be the 30, but that's going to be up to the discretion of the administrator as he communicates back with council and finance. Also that um that money is in our a tax money. Mr. Um, so I would like to formally make the motion that we solidify $30,000 um as a one-time donation to the Kataba Watery Water Management Group. And that changes the dynamic just a little bit, but I'd like to make that in the form of a motion. I second with some clarification. I have a question, but I'll wait till Yeah, it's already in the budget. So, but you have the floor. You have a second. So, so the way um Councilman Tucker just explained it was that it was up to um the discretion of the administrator and respectfully Danny, everything that we voted on tonight is um up to the discretion of council.
» And the one thing that that I promised the citizens of Lake Water is we would return them some of their money. Um there was one gentleman in here in here tonight that called me earlier. He he lives in Colombia, but he said, "You know, my taxes are $5,500 a year because it's a second home." He said, "And everybody on my roads probably that or more." Um he said, "This this has got to be a major issue for Lake Watery." Um the the sad news is is is Duke is not doing what Santi Cooper would do. I worked for Santi Cooper for 10 weeks and two of those 10 weeks it was a college internship. Um we we were on airboats and they were they were treating Hydrrella. They had a complete management team to treat the lake. I mean, I don't know how much money it cost them, but it was their cost.
» It was their burden to bear. It's very unfortunate Duke has only contributed $5,000. Uh, I think it's egregious, and I think it's um it it's a very sad situation that Lake Watery is treated so poorly by the the entity that that creates power from it. Um, I reached out and tried to have have a positive conversation and got nowhere and I was told someone would reach back out to me. So to Duke, I say this, do better. But to the citizens of Kershaw County that enjoy the lake, whether you live on it or not, we shall do our part. And I would like to solidify that tonight with a $30,000 commitment to the Kitaba. Let me make sure I don't misspeak. It's been a long night. Kataba Watery Water Management Group. They have gone above and beyond. They've they've gotten professor from Clemson.
» He's a nice gentleman. Um he's he's retired. I think he was an aquatics professor. He's donating his time. Um, they're doing this. I mean, we've got people in the audience still. It's 10:00 at night. He's not getting paid to do this. They're doing this because they're protecting the lake and they're paying a high tax. If if you collectively look at the amount of money in revenue that comes from the homes on Lake Watery, it it's astounding. So, I'd like to do better than our friends. Um, I will say that that Duke Energy has provided um some assistance. So, not in the way of a cash donation, but in the way of um some training and that sort of thing. I think he spoke to that earlier.
» Um, but in my mind, it should be completely their responsibility and unfortunately just haven't been taken care of. And I don't want this just as um Chief Spitzer spoke about things getting out of hand. This thing can really get out of hand. Then we're going to have a mess. So if they can stay on top of it with this amount of money, I'd like to approve that tonight. You got the second? No, I just I won't let you explain why you put it in the budget the way you did. Okay. Um I got a I got a point on it if you care to hear. So I just point of clarification. I don't think the administrator has any discretion um except for recommending the initial budget. It's over $25,000 which is discretionary limit caps out at 25,000.
» We're talking about a 30,000 or $30,000 line item in the budget that we just approved on second reading. And so it's as locked in as locked in can get. This would be a redundant um expenditure that's actually not an amendment to the budget. And so I think it's already covered. I asked for it to be included in the budget. Um, and it was and then we just approved it on second reading and it's above the threshold that the administrator can can alter it. So, I don't I don't want to do it twice. Um, and I I don't want to get into a confusing situation because the chairman of finance just told me that it was at his discretion. So, I'm now I'm for initial recommendation. Right. Right. So, the reason why we're doing that is for some of the stated reasons you just talked about.
» Duke's putting in 5,000. You got Fairfield, we don't know what they're doing. City of Camden, Lug Water, you've got um Lancaster County, you've got um uh Rock Hill, York County up there. So, we can put in 30,000 and do all we can for 30,000 here in Kershaw, South Carolina. And they do nothing above us. And I I I I don't like using this word, but I'm going to say it. We just pissed away $30,000 because it's coming right back downstream to us because that's the way the river flows. So, we've got to get all parties involved and make sure they're doing their equal share. So, that's why we just didn't say, "Here's a check for $30,000. Run and do what you want to do." Because we don't govern like that.
» Well, I and I I I hear your point, but there's also a saying that I only control me and we only control us. And believe you me, I have been I have been bending ears. Yes, sir. And we need more ears to bend because what they do above stream is definitely going to affect all our work, our due diligence we do below stream. And so that's why we're trying to make sure that um we are fully funded on what they requested, but we're going to be very careful to release what is needed because we need all parties on board. That was the tactic. That was the the mission behind our decision. Well, I I I I get that, but this body can't vote on what somebody else does. So, we can control what we do.
» And again, as much money as it comes off that lake, I'd like to solidify it with a vote because there's too much gray right this minute for me. So, I'm sorry you feel that way. Well, I don't I mean, I'm not I'm not sad over it. I'm not angry either. I I have to agree with him, Sammy. I'm gonna have to vote for this. So anyway, if I'm Well, if if it's in the budget and it's approved in the budget, I mean, if if we've already got it in the budget, I mean, I I kind of agree with you, uh, Russell. I mean, if if we if if the budget passes and it's in the budget, then let's let's give it to them. It's in the budget. Well, he he just said that it was at the administrator's discretion. Yeah, but I'm agreeing with you up to that. Okay. So, you you don't mind? Let's if we can take it to a vote.
» I mean, I I don't I don't mind just giving that, you know, go ahead and saying they get 30,000. Now, I my question is is do we do this all in one one lump sum or do we give it to them kind of like a a draw, so to speak, um as to when they're We could have him come up here and and talk if y'all like or Well, I'd like to I'd like to do a point of order I if I can. Sure. Point of order takes presence. Mr. Schumake, I just the one concern I have is if this isn't an amendment to the budget, which has already passed and the fi this matters already come to the finance committee where the recommendation had been voted on for the budget.
» So I mean I guess my issue is is this even an appropriate form for this to go forward in because we we're voting on something we've literally already put money in. I didn't I didn't see it in the budget. So where's it at? Show it to me. Show Show it to me in the budget. I've got the budget here and I've got all night. It is in the line item for contracted services for administration. So, it's it's it's again it's it again it's very gray and it could be used. It it could be 5,000. It could be 2,000. It could be 30,000. What what I'm asking is that we solidify it. And Mr. Mr.
» Deose, am I fair in this request? As I understand your request and what's been discussed, it is budgeted up to $30,000, but the exact amount would be at the discretion and ad of the administrator considering other people's buyin. What I understand you're saying is you want it to be 30,000 to them. Period. Correct, sir. And I I think um that distinction and also it's in within a larger line item. I think yes, if you want to get granular and say 30,000 is going to this entity specifically, I don't know that it's improper for a vote given the the context in which it was explained that it's not definitively $30,000 as it stands in second reading. And that is what you were asking it to be, definitively $30,000. So, yeah, I think I think it'd be proper appropriate for your motion. Thank you.
» Now, now, let me ask one question. You know, I don't mean to throw sand in nobody's eyes, but how what do we have to protect us to make sure that that $30,000 is being spent to treat the shores of Kershaw County and it's not going to the Fairfield County side or it's not going to the Lancaster County side? How do we make sure we make sure that it's being it's treating the the issues that's on the Kershaw County shoreline? I've got a uh hang on just a second. Good question, Councilman. That is a very valid point. Somewhere in this atrocity of paperwork I have is a map. This that's a 2021 map. Is the 2021 the newest or is there a newer map? the the spots that are highlighted in red or they they go around and spot treat it just like you're spraying Roundup.
» I have a question for clarification. So, Mr. Templer, in our discussions, uh I've asked you about whether these funds are in the budget and was told unequivocally they're in the budget. They are. And so do you have that in the form of some confirmed writing with a third party or or how do you how can we confirm that they're in the budget beyond uh what you've told me? Uh I've never had to produce definitive receipts for I'm just I mean do you have emails going back or is there something there or No, I mean I I mean as y'all's administrator I'm telling you this money is in there. Okay. That's the response I got from you that if we need $30,000 for this, sir, I will get it. My and then sourced from a tax sourced from a tax. No, I have I did not use a tax.
» I had thought about uh three different pots. A tax I thought about um sewer um as a utility. Mhm. Um, and my tension came from we have utility water providers on both sides of the river that are only given $10,000. Um, so I just wanted to have an equitable uh contribution. Fairfield County is at 5K. They may go up to 10. 10K seems to be the going rate. But at this point, I can tell you on record, there is $30,000 in this budget for that. And if you all want to spend it all there, let me know. I would be happy to accommodate. Okay. If I may, Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I um I I understand what Russell's trying to do. Um but I have full faith into the administrator and staff. He's reaching out to these other entities as well.
» Some of them has not been apprised of any money being asked and this is just as recently as last week where he's reached out and tried to make communications to these folks. So, um Danny's really trying to play a a team leader here on getting more people to contribute to the pot and I appreciate that because we need more than just our 30,000 to do the job appropriately. So, um, Russell, as much as I love you tonight and, uh, we're about to spend the night together, um, I'm going to have to not support this amendment tonight. Okay. Well, I got no problem with that. um is as I I I'll never fault anybody for how they vote, but I don't think you can compare a water provider's net revenue or gross revenue to the gross revenue of Kershaw County as a tax collector. No.
» And that's not what I'm trying to do. But if you participate parties if Well, I do too. Yeah. like like I will use a term that I hadn't heard since Julian Burns was the chairman. We viciously agree. Viciously agree. So violently violently agree. Was it violently? So um we are are violently in agreement and I would um I would like to ask the chairman to call the vote please. There's no further discussion, no other comments. Uh and it's not an amendment. We just have a motion on the floor. All right. So, all in favor of the motion, raise your hand. We got Mr. Brazzle, Mr. Kato, and Mr. Jones in favor. All opposed. Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, Connell, and Tomlinson. For the record, Miss Hannah. Motion fails. All right, that takes us to the next. Well, let's be clear.
» If the budget passes, the 30 is still there. Absolutely. Unless unless somebody amends it on third reading and just wanted to make sure that's clear. Okay. Um, thank you, gentlemen. That takes us to the next item which is uh item D. Um my motion and this is regarding the summer meeting schedule. This is 10D. My motion is that we amend our meeting schedule to delete the June 24 meeting due to summer travel of various council members and uh have that meeting on July 17th. That's my motion. Is there a second? Second. Got a second from Mr. Tucker. All right. And so for discussion, uh, various council members are on travel, summer family vacations.
» I announced this over, I think it was about a month ago, talking about this already, trying to coordinate everybody's schedules, u moving the June 24th meeting to, uh, June 17th. And, um, we do intend to have third reading of the budget on that date so that we have additional time instead of doing it on the June uh, 10th meeting, it gives us another bit of time to work on the budget. And uh I feel like it's complete um an adequate notice for the public because we've been talking about this for month and a half or so. If if I if I could uh just add just a slight correction. So it's actually moving up a week because third reading was actually the 24th. It's a special called meeting. Um yes sir, it will be. Um so we'll get that notification out.
» But the biggest thing I think we need to do is make sure we notify the public that third reading will be on the 17th, not the 24th. We've been talking about that. And then Mr. Mr. Deose also has uh with the the local publication being the Chronicle. Mhm. He's already worked out the schedule where that complies with all notice requirements. So, Mr. Chair, June 10th, June 17th will be the next two meetings. Correct. We're not canceling the 10th. We're just doing two. Okay. That's what I was making clear. I want to be clear on that. We're not canceling two meetings and June 17th. June 17th replaces June 24 due to uh travel schedules and we're going to read the budget on the 17th. That would be third reading. Okay. Just want to make sure. Yes, sir. Okay. And that's my motion.
» Any further discussion? Any other comments, questions? All right. Move to a vote. All in favor? Did you get a second? Yes, I second it. Well, I have a comment. Go ahead. Um, here's where I'm at. I'm going to support it. Absolutely. But I think we need to be careful when we start moving third reading to a special call meeting because, you know, there's not as many people to come to special called meeting or they don't know about the special call meeting. And I know this council would not do that, but there could be the intent that we're trying to keep low volume for third reading. And I know I I'm not I'm not accusing anybody of that, but I'm that could be perception.
» So I would like to ask my colleagues for the future if we could really plan to make sure we schedule third reading, you know, properly. So we don't have to do a special call meeting for third reading. But I am going to support y'all. And I I do know this is in good faith, but I had to say that. That's the way I feel. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Yes. Like I said, we started talking about this over a month and a half ago uh openly and in part it's due to um local publication run less frequently than they used to. Um that's just the schedule. A lot of stuff's online now, but we actually have to put it out in the publication and so that lined up best with summer travel schedules. Seeing no further discussion, we'll move it to a vote. All in favor? Miss unanimous.
» Summer schedule is changed is voted on. All right, we've got um item number 10 E, approval to live stream planning commission meetings by Mr. Jones. Is this for discussion or is there a motion? Uh I got on new business, don't I? Yes, it's under new business. Might want to take a vote. U I make the motion that we approve funding for the not funding, but that we approve for live streaming with the uh planning zoning department. I think well I'll talk about when we get there. I want to see the zoning zoning board of appeals will be different. Do you mean planning commission is stated on the agenda? The planning and zoning commission. Okay. I want to see them live streamed the same way county council is. Okay. All right. That's a motion. Is there a second? I'll make a second. Thank you.
» But I've got a question. Absolutely. Is I mean is this something they've asked for? Something I've asked for. Oh, they they would want it. I can assure you of that. But think about what we've been going through with planning zoning guys. Other than county council, that's probably the hottest body that meets. That really really uh affects a lot of people in this county, everybody in this county. And some folks would like to attend, but they can't because they they can't get there in time or whatever. and and I think it's it's it's good transparency, good sunshine, and uh the more meetings that we put out there in the open. But that's just my opinion. Well, they got they got a six-mon shot clock to make something happen. So, um suits me.
» But I mean, anytime we can put a meeting into public, I think that's a good thing. You have the second. Any further discussion, Mr. Razle? Nope. Any other comments, questions, discussion? It speaks for itself. So, I um I just asked about any associated cost. I didn't know if it cost anything to live stream something. Apparently, it does. Um the cost per for a year, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Templer, would be roughly $3,000 um for any one of our commissions to go live stream as opposed to recorded, which I understand the meeting is already recorded and and gets put out. you I think you said the last time it was like within 14 minutes the entire meeting was published on the web as opposed to having to live stream and incur some cost.
» Well, they had an issue with the so that was kind of a one-off. I think it was a um not quite 14 minutes but it was like 40 minutes or something like that. Well, they had it finished and then um but they typically uh they record their out the next day. So, I'm planning a zoning site. So, okay. So, it's either out within shortly thereafter or within 24 hours and depending on and so if we run into something uh you know we've had our our meetings get dinged for copyright issues and I don't know what could be a copyright issue in this forum but it I think it's maybe some of the uh you know the the scanning software that YouTube or whoever else has it it just glitched and picked up something so we had to resolve that.
» So, you'll have these oneoffs, but we staff does a really good job of getting them out and getting them up and it's it's reflective of what goes on. Well, I'd like to see them live streamed and I think it speaks for itself. And if we don't do that, we at least we are recording it and and it'll be out there hopefully very quickly after the the Danny, what's the average time of putting that meeting out? Um, so they are up within normally within the next day. I'll refer back to my uh text if you'll give me a minute. Uh, it's ready to be published the morning after the meetings. Um, P&Z staff will usually post it within a day or two. So, and we could modify that to make sure that it is the next morning.
» So, barring any unforeseen issues like copyright or anything like that that randomly comes up. All right. I'm going to remove my motion. Okay. The motion's withdrawn. I'm just doing that because I know you guys have the best intent. I don't make you vote against something that's really good like that. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Motion's withdrawn. We move on to the next agenda item. No vote. Um 11A. Mr. Chairman, we don't really have anything on the agenda. This is just as a reminder. Yes, that's what I was about to say. I don't I think we need more time to research out some candidates. So, can we continue this uh for another date? This is this is uh continued and I don't see a motion to actually have active discussion on it, but it was a reminder in place.
» So, I know a couple of council members are working on identifying the right person to fill particular positions. All right. Uh, that takes us to council member briefings. U, Mr. Kato, you love starting with me, don't you? Well, you did say you're the prettiest. You love starting with me. Well, I'm gonna be brief because I'm ready to go home. But you believe that? No. I just want to say tonight, I think the spiritedness of this council shows the love and care that each one of us has for Kershaw County. And so, I don't think the public needs to take anything to heart that was said or done in here tonight because I think it's u it's kind of like a football team. When you get to sparring against one another, you go at it as hard as you can.
» And then when you get done, you're still a team and you you go on back to the locker room and you go home and you get ready for the next game. But I thank each and every one of my colleagues for their input. And um I I hope that we're going to be able to move forward in a positive direction on some of these these issues to include this budget. Um I just want to have a reminder of a general public meeting at the Mount Pisar Resource Center. That'll be uh next Monday, June the 2nd at 6 PM. And um we'd love to have people come up there and attend that meeting. It's very informative and you can see some of the stuff that they've done up there. They have done an outstanding job. Um other than that, I wish everybody kids are out of school. Wish everybody a happy and safe summer.
» And that ends my report. Mr. Thomasson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, in in honor of Memorial Day yesterday, one day behind, um, you know, we we sit up here and and have heated conversations and and and doing what we believe is is right for Kershaw County. Um, but real heroes, both men and women, lost their lives while fighting for the freedoms that we're allowed to sit here. And yesterday was that day and it should be every single day because that is something that is a sacrifice that that lives on for generations, not only through families, but we that's the reason we're allowed to sit here right now. So if you've had family members or loved ones, friends that have been lost um at a time of war while serving our country, I'm with you. Um thank you.
» Thank them for their service because that's why we're here. Um, I really appreciate all of my colleagues. Um, and I've enjoyed the discussion tonight. I don't, you know, I think there's going to be many more discussions going forward, but thank everybody for the time and um, the audience for the time of being here. That concludes my comments. Thank you, Mr. Thomasson, as well. Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I want to start with uh, no report. No, listen. I am Mr. Tucker, please. I am. First off, let me say this. You making it I appreciate the good spirited debate tonight. I do. And Mr. Kato, I think you do a fine job for your community, by the way. I want to be the bigger man and say it first. Anyway, uh guys, on a serious note, Decan Orchard needs help.
» I find out tonight we I didn't get a call. I didn't know that we had been turned down on a grant, but we have been. But the problem's still there. And these people pay their taxes. They live in and it is probably the worst drainage of any subdivision. They probably had the worst drainage of any subdivision in Kershaw County. And um I'd like to ask y'all to think about it and let's figure out what we can't do to help those people out there. And if somebody could get back with me in a week or so or call me, got some ideas, let's let's just try to do something for them. I I would do it no matter where it was in the county. I would do it. But so anyway, that concludes my report. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Shoemake. Yeah. Three things pretty briefly. Uh Mr.
» Thomas already mentioned uh Memorial Day. Um, Corporal William Thomas Perkins Jr. is the only combat photographer uh to ever win a Medal of Honor. Did so by jumping on a grenade while covering the Vietnam War. And as a former combat correspondent myself in the Marine Corps, it's always something I like to remember um because he was, you know, right there in the thick of things. So, but again, thinking about all those veterans that we lost on Memorial Day. Um, want to talk briefly about the moratorum. I think we've still got a lot of work to do. I said as much in my briefing. I I do not think we can do what is proposed to be done in 6 months. So, um I look forward to working with some of the other council members.
» I thought Chairman Connell's idea about limiting maybe the geographic scope was a really good one. It was first reading. So, um I just want to make that very clear that I absolutely support this moratorum uh in or a moratorum if we'll be able to get things done. But I think that my research over the next week or so is going to show me that getting a countywide assessment done at the scale that planning commission proposed isn't feasible. And I don't think there's an appetite here to extend this moratorum at 18 months. So I'd rather have something that works than something that sounds good and doesn't work. So I'll continue to work with Councilman Brazzle, um, Chairman Connell, and others to find something.
» And I I think we all express some concern about Councilman Jones some concern about, you know, this not really being the right type of moratorum for what we need. So I I look forward to working with all my council members to figure out, you know, how to refine this as we go to second and third reading and appreciate all the spirited discussion. And last, uh, Councilman Brazle, congratulations to your son and to your son as well, uh, Councilman Jones for graduations. Um, you know, we've, uh, and my own son graduated, Lug Felgian this past week. So, obviously, you know, that's why I think we get so spirited up here, uh, because we have kids that we would like to see in theory return to this county. Your son's going to go be a super musician somewhere.
» We don't have the the Phil Monica Kershaw County yet, but maybe when we do, he can come back, too. But I think we all want our kids to have a place to live and to grow old and have their own families, and that's really what this is about. no matter what we agree or disagree with on here, fundamentally every single one of us wants that. So that's all I have. And I heard you did a good job at the graduation. I tried. I tried. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Tucker. Uh thank you uh Mr. Chairman. Very briefly. Uh I want to ditto what uh Councilman Shoemage said about all the grads, whether it was high school or college. Congratulations. These are two big moves you'll be making in life. One of them will welcome you to adulthood if you're graduating college.
» um keep working because I hope to retire one day and someone needs to keep paying in. And the other one is I hope that you get the college of your choice. Live the next four years like you've never lived before because it'll be all business when you leave there. So So do do enjoy. I want to say to uh my two colleagues, Thomasson and Shoemate, I can't thank you enough. I know we're not finished until uh June 17th when we adjourn on this finance committee, but um this could not be done without you. Um thank you for the time that you put in. Thank you Danny and staff, Lauren and Gerald, uh Tyler to to the fifth power, man. I can't say thank you enough. This has been a year that I have never experienced before in a way that I don't want to ever experience again.
» So keep that in mind as we move forward. But I think that um it's a solid budget and we have a few more things to take care of. And on that note, Mr. Chairman, I want to remind everyone, you got to have your stuff in writing. You got to identify where the funds are coming from and where they're going to be expenditure for third reading. So you got about two weeks to make sure that's in to Miss Hannah by that Thursday um before the review of the agenda. So know that the uh the meeting is going to be on the 17th, but your uh your amendments need to be in before then. So I just wanted to make that clear to everyone.
» Um I say to all of us uh let's do say a nice healthy prayer for one another tonight and ask God to continue to guide us and um and support us and um there should be no ill feelings, no malice, no none of that from our hearts when we leave this place. We have done the people's business. probably not in the best way that I see fit, but I do understand spirits and I'm going to ask that um we move forward and we learn and do better. That concludes my report. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Brazzle. Thank you, Chairman. Um Coach Kato. He coached, right, Coach? What you talking? Coach Kato was talking about football. I think I got a concussion tonight. Coach, nothing a good stiff drink ain't big. Concussion protocol is you have to miss the next four meetings. I think don't tempt me with a good time.
» I would like to uh I'd like to thank I'd like to thank everybody for uh the debate. We hadn't had um we hadn't had a good one in a while. And you know, Sammy, you're right. And Danny, what you said earlier, even if we get a little hotheaded up here, it's it's all because we care so much about what we're doing. Absolutely. And we care and and Derek said it many times, sometimes the path to correct decisions is sloppy. And I can assure you people ahead of us probably gotten much worse tiffs and riffs than we have. No, no, but I mean there were duels. South Carolina guy went to Washington to beat someone to death with a cane. That was Yeah. So, we hadn't had any of that happen. So, capital. I'm I'm thankful for that. Um and I'd like to say thank you to Danny.
» Danny, I wasn't um trying to say the the 30,000 wasn't in the budget. I just didn't see it. So, I just wanted to um as as a representative for Lake Watery, it was my duty to solidify it, but you did that by stating on the record that $30,000 is in the budget for them, and I thank you for that. So, even though the vote failed, we know the money's there. We know they're going to receive it, and thank you for that. And um with that, I want to say one positive thing. Um, my wife was texting me telling me to shut up earlier and um, right after she told me to shut up, she told me that um, her mother's cancer has shrunk. Great. Amen. Great. And her mother's Kathy Merritt. If if anybody would want to pray for her, we will take the prayer.
» She's been fighting cancer for about 15 months now and it has not been easy on my wife and all of us and all of my kids. It's it's been a very tough situation. So, um, anything good that can come out of a little sparred fight, I'd do it again if that was the end result. So, that's right. Anyway, God bless y'all. Y'all have a good night. She's a fight. Thank you, Russell. Thank you, Mr. Brazzle. Uh, just a few things, Mr. Administrator. I was checking my timeline and it was back on February 22nd, 2022 when we had the initial vote on the impact fee to approve and move forward towards a study. And so on the next agenda, I'd like uh impact fee placed on the agenda again voted in favor of that and supported it. I think we had a study.
» I hope the study hasn't aged out in the meantime since I left for the state house and have come back. Um, but that's something I think we also have to look at as a comprehensive part of this discussion we're going through on growth, how to pay for it, how to address it, and do it smartly in Kershaw County. Um, update for council members, in case you hadn't heard yet, there's, I think, $167,000 that's allocated via ARPA funds to completing the comp plan and the ZLDR. That money has to be spent by October 2026. And that means the comp plan has to be completed. I mean, just ASAP. All, you know, immediately. It has to get done. We can't have any more delays. We're looking at $167,000 getting clawed back from um one of our budget line items. And that's just unacceptable.
» So, the comp plan has to get done. It's been three years in the making and I think uh it's a project that would typically take typically take 8 to 12 months, sometimes two years in much more in larger jurisdictions that have um you know ports and various other issues that are very complex. And so we've got to get it done or we're looking at losing over $150,000 that October 2026. October 2026. And so we've got to get on top of our ZLDR work immediately and, you know, not have to say we need a fee or some other type of increase or cut services somewhere else because we lost $167,000 that we could have spent towards completing um a smart growth plan.
» I wanted to mention tonight that the council's work and economic development's work and staff's work related to um business development has been outstanding for us over the last u year and a half plus. And I think in part that resulted in no millillage increase requests from the school district this year. Of course, the school district receives a significant portion of their budget from Felo monies. But that's really I still think and believe, guys, that's where we've got to focus is bringing jobs to Kershaw County, generating Felo revenue, doesn't require any additional residential development, but it brings jobs back. It helps pay for school items and county items, and we don't have to increase taxes.
» And so I'm going to continue to focus on the economic development front in Kershaw County and I thank you for your support in that. Um, regarding the moratorum, like I said, there there is a a world in which I could be supportive of it. But I hope that uh between now and second or third reading, we can identify greater protections for liberty and individual freedom and narrowly tailor this thing to address the concerns that are stated in dense population areas or suspected dense population areas. That's just something I believe at my core. Obviously, it's not real politically popular right now, at least not it wasn't in this room, but it's something I believe and I'm willing to state the things I believe and stand for them. And so, I think there is a path forward there.
» And then lastly, we've talked about your your uh sons and I um I appreciate good fathers. I'm glad we did have that presentation tonight, Miss Hannah. Thank you for putting that on there. These three young men, Frell, Taylor, and Davis, are outstanding young men. I've known some of them since they're much younger. I actually got to wrestle with Taylor at one point in your yard, Jimmy. Tried try to teach him some moves to to throw on you. I was going to jump on you, but I changed my mind. Yeah, you should have changed your mind. Believe me, there's a couple times tonight I I wish I would have gone each each other so I can employ my true skill set, which is uh which is manually manipulating people to do things they don't want to as a wrestler.
» And anyway, um these are outstanding young men and that's a reflection of good dads who care and are in their lives. I'm impressed with them. They're going back uh they're going to college in u outstanding universities and I just hope I just hope I hope that they'll have the opportunity to come back if they want to and work in Kershaw County. Yep. I hope that I eventually got to do it after being gone for 15 years and it's been one of the biggest blessings in my life. And I just hope we'll have an environment where there there are jobs here. Um there's the type of um growth, smart growth that we'll have here where those guys will have opportunities to come back and be here because it will it will heighten the community. It really will. We agree on that, sir? All right. Thank you.
» That's uh concludes my report. Um administrator's briefing item number 13. Anything for us, Danny? Just a few items real quick. Uh, yes, the Pecan Orchard grant was turned down, but um we do have grant match money there. So, I'll be looking for more direction from council as to what y'all want to do with that. It's there in the budget, but I certainly intend to continue looking for uh any kind of revenue sources out there. We've reached out to the COG and we've also reached out to our engineering firm to start looking for um alternative sources to hopefully fund that. Um so we'll I'll keep you all posted, but we'll certainly be looking for some direction on what that grant match does that is already in the budget um projects.
» Just real quick, it's been raining a lot, so I would expect some rain delays in in some of these, namely the boat ramp, but uh it's um you know, just everything's still going on. It's just weather. Uh so, and with that, that's it. That's all. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Um Mr. Deose, any legal briefing beyond executive session? No. All right, gentlemen. That takes us to two items for executive session. We've got uh executive session item A and B, both falling under SC code 30-4-70A2 regarding legal advice for uh potential claims threatened or actual. Do we have a motion to enter executive session? Make a motion we enter executive uh session for two contractual matters uh with our attorneys. Um what's the guest attorney? I I'll clarify. They're not contractual matters.
» They're um uh legal advice for a pending threat or potential claim. Well, legal vice or potential Okay. claim. Okay. Second. We have a second. And I wanted to include the attorney. What was his name? Mr. Krabs. Mr. Krabs. Okay. There we go. Thank you. Any further discussion? All right, let's move to a vote. Executive session. All who are present except for Mr. Bowser. Vote in favor. Miss Hann. Okay. Thank you. We are in executive session. Motion to uh come out of executive session. Mr. Second got a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor? Miss Hannah, for the five who are present, Shoe, Kato, Tucker, Connell, and Thomasson. It's unanimous. We're out of executive session. Is there a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion we adjourn. Second. Mr. Kato. Mr. Tucker has a second.
» Seeing no discussion. All in favor? It's unanimous. Sand for the record. Thank you. We are adjourned. And you have the names. You got
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