Machine transcript of the county's live stream. Each » marks a change of speaker; the captions don't say who is talking, and names are often misspelled. For the readable version see the recap; the official record is the county's minutes.
» Good evening, Kershaw County citizens that are here with us at the meeting and online. This is the first meeting of April and I call this meeting to order. Madam Chair, before we get started, I know we got a heavy agenda tonight. I'd like a point of personal privilege, if I may, just for a couple of minutes. Yes, sir, go ahead. Okay, thank you. I had, folks, listen, I had the wonderful opportunity this past Saturday to participate, I was invited to a promotion ceremony by the United States National Guard. Katie Gwynne got promoted from a Warrant Officer Two to a Warrant Officer Three, Chief Warrant Officer Three. And I tell you what, we are here because of our military and we owe them everything. And I have never been so proud of somebody as her receiving that.
» And the reception she got from her command staff was just overwhelming. And I have, very quickly, I've asked Sergeant Major Scott Tyson, if you mind coming up to the podium, he's gonna read to you the bio that was read on behalf of her at her promotion ceremony. Go ahead, Sergeant. Sergeant Major, we appreciate your service to our country as well. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Jones, county council, constituents. Real quick, I just wanna go ahead and read over that Ms. Gwynne was recognized from being a CW2 to a CW3, Chief Warrant Officer Three, which is a huge accomplishment. Chief Gwynne, enlisted in the South Carolina National Guard in 2007 as a combat medic. She served full-time medic at the 218th Regiment Leader from 2009 to 2011.
» She deployed in support of Operation Enduring Freedom in 2011 to 2012. Served as the female engagement team member of the 10th Group Special Forces Airborne. Upon returning from Afghanistan, she served as a full-time state medical board specialist in what we call the G1 Human Resources side and a combat medic of the 1st to the 115th ARB. In 2013, she was selected as a warrant officer flight candidate and was the first aviator to attend the WOCS, which is Warrant Officer Training School, at the 218th RTI, the first. Chief Gwynne attended the U.S. Army Rotary Wing School and graduated from the AH-64D Apache Longbow Course Attack Helicopters in 2015.
» After returning to South Carolina from flight school, she served as the state medical board officer in charge and was assigned to the Charlie Company 1st and 118th Attack Reconnaissance Battalion. In 2018, she transitioned from full-time to the state equal opportunity specialist and assisted in developing and standing up the civilian and military equal opportunity programs and served as the 351st Aviation Support Battalion safety officer from 2018 to 2023. Chief Gwynne transferred to the Joint Force Headquarters, which is downtown in Columbia, in spring of 2023 and currently serves as the state mobilization officer in our training and operations. Currently a traditional National Guardsman, Chief Gwynne serves as Kershaw County Chairwoman and resides in Camden.
» Chief Gwynne is also enrolled in Embroidery Riddle Aeronomical University on a path to graduate in June with a bachelor's degree in aeronomical science and a minor in aviation safety. Military education includes the U.S. Army Medical Center of Excellence Combat Medic School, the National Registry Emergency Medical Technician School, Advanced Life Support School, Advanced Trauma Life Support School, Detainee Healthcare, Warrior Leadership Course, which she was the Distinguished Honor Grad, Combatives Level Two, Warren Officer Cannon School, Physical Fitness Award and Leadership Award, Equal Opportunity Commission Mediator Counselor Course, Equal Opportunity Leaders Course, U.S.
» Army Aviation Center of Excellence, Initial Rotary Wing School, Advanced Warfighting Skills, AH-69 Dequalification Course, Aviation Life Support Equipment Course, High Altitude Aviation Training Course, and Warrant Officer Advanced Course. Her awards include the Afghanistan Campaign Medal with a Campaign Star, the Army Accommodation Medal awarded twice, Army Achievement Medal awarded three times, the National Defense Service Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Non-Commissioned Officer Professional Development Ribbon, the Army Service Medal, Overseas Service Ribbon, Armed Forces Reserve Medal with an M-Device NATO Medal, Combat Medical Badge and Combat Action Badge, basically Aviation Badge.
» With rolling all that in, I know that Kershaw County very much supports our military, our veterans, and our first responders. We want to say thank you and congratulations on your promotion, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Tim Hopkins, who is a tremendous patriot as well, a man who served our country, thank you, Tim, but thank you to all. Would all the veterans stand for one quick second, please? All the veterans in here. Well, thank you guys. Okay, she didn't know I was gonna do that, but I felt it was well-deserved. Sergeant Major, thank you so much for making that very special. I could not have read those big words like you did. You did a great job. All right, Madam Chair, thank you for the point of privilege. I'm done. Thank you. Thank you. I'm red, I'm sweating. Mr.
» Titus, I thought you were here to speak on growth and Vice Chairman Jones, I never know what you're gonna do, so. Thank you. Tonight is about military kids, but I really appreciate you guys. All right, item number two, the invocation. Invocation tonight will be from Pastor Quentin Chavez from Belmont Baptist Church in Westville. Thank you, thank you. This is not about me, though. Really good, I'm glad you did that. Madam Chairwoman, when Pastor Bennett asked us to do this, he didn't tell us whether or not y'all wanted the long version or the short version. We have a lot of veterans in here, so. Reverend Blankenship said the short version. Okay, I heard you, all right. And for the record, I am from the Belmont Baptist Church downtown Westville, the metropolitan area of Westville, okay.
» You're invited anytime. Let us pray. Master Father, we thank you for this time of sharing. We thank you for the opportunity, Lord, just to call your name and know we are heard. Lord, we ask that you come in to what's taking place here. Stay with us, keep your hand in the middle of whatever is said and done here this night, that it might yield a kind of fruit that will help the Camden area and Kershaw County as it moves forward. Bless the members of the board, bless those that are here to speak, guide their voices that it may give positive outcome. Remember the sick and the shut in, the bereaved, the careless and unconcerned. And those, Lord, that we label that out of the arc of safety. Bless now, only as you can, this we pray and ask in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Thank you, pastor.
» Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Up to item number four, adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion pertaining to tonight's agenda? Madam Chair, I make a motion that we adopt the agenda as presented. Okay, Mr. Tucker, with a motion to adopt, is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. Any discussion? Madam Chair, I'd like to make an amendment to the agenda. Yes, sir. I'd like to make a motion that we remove item 10A, a resolution opposing the widening of 521 at this time off the agenda, please. Okay, amendment to remove item 10 alpha, resolution opposing the 521 project. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson.
» Any discussion on that removal? Yes. Yes, Mr. Jones. I'd like, if we could, to add it in the motion to, it's gonna be back on the table, it's gonna be back on the council on May 14th. You want it back on the agenda on May 14th? I have no problem accepting that in the motion. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, amendment is to remove it, remove 10 alpha from tonight's agenda and put it on May 14th's agenda. Mr. Tomlinson, you still second? Second. Okay, thank you. Okay, all those in favor of that amendment, tonight's agenda, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brazel, and I forgot to ask if Mr. Shoemake's on the line. Okay, all right, Mr. Shoemake will be late, Ms. Hanna. Okay, please strike item 10 alpha from your agenda and Ms.
» Hanna will have that on May 14th. Any other amendments to the agenda tonight? Madam Chair, I have an amendment to part B of resolution item 10, section M of personal policies. It's a motion to add a row that reflects 15 years or over of service for an eight hour work week. It was just a simple clerical era and it would change and it would have 15 years and over. Monthly hours would be 14 and annual accruement would be 168. Okay, Mr. Cato, thank you. Do you need to remove item B? We're just keeping it on the agenda though, correct? Keeping it on the agenda, we're just adding this line. Let's handle that when we actually get to the agenda item and we get into the resolution. Thank you. All right, any others? Discussion, okay.
» All those in favor of adopting tonight's agenda as amended indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Tucker and Mr. Brazel. This is now our agenda. Up to item number five, proclamations. All right, so we have two proclamations tonight. Both are very dear to this council. The first one is a proclamation recognizing the month of the military child. Whereas in 1986, Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger established April as the month of the military child to serve as an opportunity to recognize the contributions and personal sacrifices that military children make in support of the armed forces of the United States of America and their bravery while their parent or parents serve our nation.
» And whereas there are more than 1.6 million military children who face challenges and unique experiences as a result of their parent service. While military members serve around the world, we often forget the challenges faced by their children. Military children are faced with adapting to new environments, changing communities and support networks at each duty station which present unique challenges for military children. Each year, the DOD, Department of Defense, joins national, state and local governments, schools, military serving organizations, companies and private citizens in celebrating military children and their sacrifices they have made.
» And whereas the average military student faces transitioning schools every two to four years and will attend six to nine different school systems throughout their lives from kindergarten to 12th grade with approximately 5,500 veterans residing in Kershaw County, Kershaw County Council, Kershaw County School Board, Kershaw County Veterans Affairs Office, Kershaw County School District, the Montessori School of Camden and the Military Interstate Children's Compact Commission, MIC3 are committed to assisting military children through educational and community transitions and are committed to ensuring that they are afforded the same opportunities for educational success as other children and are not delayed in achieving their educational, recreational and social goals.
» And whereas the month of the military child serves as a reminder that when a parent or parents serve in the military, that children serve too. And whereas Kershaw County Purple Update, Purple Up Day will be Wednesday, April 17th, 2024. On this day, County Council encourages our entire community to wear purple and pay tribute to the military children of Kershaw County and the 1.6 million military children of all ages through their strength and resiliency are the heart and the soul of the military family. Now, therefore, Kershaw County Council proclaims this April as month of the military child in Kershaw County and encourages all residents to honor the courage and sacrifices of our military children who so faithfully uphold the American spirit to support those children and their families.
» Is there a motion to adopt tonight's proclamation? Madam Chair, I'd like to make the motion to approve this proclamation. Okay, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Tomlinson with the second. Any discussion? Mr. Tucker? Anybody first? Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanna say, I know it's not about you, but I do wanna say congratulations, Vice Chair, you did very good on what you did earlier. But I wanna say to the parents and to the military children, and I said this last year when I adopted this, thank you because you truly, truly, truly serve along with your dependent, your father, mother, whoever it may be that goes out and protects our freedoms and liberties in this United States of America. And you don't have to be deployed in order to do that.
» Sometimes you go overseas with your families and sometimes you stay back here on the good homeland of the United States, but wherever you are, you're serving and it's a different life. So I say thank you. It's a life that a lot of people, sometimes as they get older, wish they had the experiences that you grow up with and have experienced doing the careers of your loved ones. But I can't say thank you enough and continue to support because without our military, we're nothing. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to echo on what Mr. Tucker said. There's two families in the military. You have your military family and your family back at home.
» And a lot of times your family back at home, your spouse and your children have to play the hard part in the entire role while their mother or father is overseas serving, serving our country. It's really hard on the children. And thank you so much. I see there's at least two military children here in the audience. You got Arnett and Gwen right there and some in the back. Yeah, raise them hands. Yeah, if there's children in the audience, I'd like y'all to stand up right now. Yes, if you're a military child. This is about y'all today. Please come up. Yeah, yeah. Please come up to the dice. Yeah, have all y'all come up here up front. This is what it's about right here. Each and every one of you. Y'all should be proud of yourselves, proud of your parents.
» And we're proud to have you here in Kershaw County. Eli. Let's take a vote real quick. All those in favor of accepting April in Kershaw County as month of the military child indicate by raising your hand. The vote is unanimous. All those in favor of accepting April as month of the military child indicate by raising your hand. Come on back. Eli, break the crowd back this way, Eli. Come on back. Smile back. Smile on back, please. Smile on back. All of you. All right. Let's vote. We're all good. I don't have any more kids. There you go. Yeah. I'm not pushing you. I'm not pushing you. I'm not pushing you. I'm not pushing you. I'm not pushing you. Eli's right. I'm not pushing you. Oh, does it? Yeah. You get it. It's hanging there. Yeah, I know. I know.
» Is this something that you don't want to do? No. Right. Right, right. Look at Hantai. It's good stuff, Madam Chair. Thank you all. Thank you all so much. And parents, thank you for bringing your children to county councils tonight. Great job. Ms. Sarah Jane Arnett, can you come to the podium, please? Yes. Thank you for your contribution and everything you do. I went to drill this weekend in Columbia and she was even at drill. So she's everywhere supporting our military kids. And I think there was someone you wanted to introduce or something you wanted to say. There's someone that I want to publicly acknowledge and thank and he's sitting right behind me. Mr. Hopkins, if you don't mind standing up. Absolutely. Mr.
» Hopkins has served at Kershaw County School District for how many years, sir? Ever. It's been 30 something. 30 something. He is a very, very, you think I'm busy? He puts me to shame. He's actually the deputy superintendent and he's been the acting military school liaison for the district for years now. And he somehow manages this all. He puts on trainings for the staff and he never forgets a student. And I know that personally. And even his assistant says he's wonderful. So you know when your assistant says you're wonderful, you're pretty big. You're a pretty big deal. So I just wanted to thank him and publicly acknowledge him for all the work that you do for our military families. And again, thank you for always supporting this proclamation, our military kids.
» And I'm not going to get emotional about this because, you know, this is a lot. I feel like I am. We've been doing this for years. Just again, thank you and Kershaw County. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hopkins. Thank you. All right. And we will get the 2024 one framed and we'll have it in the lobby for the whole month. Next proclamation tonight is a proclamation honoring North Central High School Weight Lifting Team, 2024 AA Team State Champions, whereas the North Central High School Weight Lifting Team located at 3000 Lockhart Road, Kershaw, South Carolina, has been titled as the 2024 AA Team State Champions. And whereas the members of the North Central High School Weight Lifting Team have accomplished an outstanding record, which was defeated a 33 year old state record in South Carolina.
» And whereas Kershaw County Council is proud to recognize the athletic director, coaches and the athletes for their hard work and dedication that led the weightlifting team to become the 2024 AA Team State Champions. Daniel Sisk, the athletic director, Dennis Stevens, the assistant strength coach, Ryan McDonald, head strength coach, Sheldon Van Dyke, assistant strength coach, DJ McClinton, second place individual who broke the 33 year old state record with a 550 pound squat and a total weight of bench and squat combined. Aiden Riles, second place individual. Jackson Rogers, completed at the JV level, competed at the JV level. And Zaman Bennett competed at the JV level.
» Now, therefore, be it resolved that Kershaw County Council do hereby honor the 2024 AA State Champions of the North Central High School Weight Lifting Team on this day, April 9th, 2024, for winning the AA State Championship. Is there a motion to accept this proclamation? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion we accept this proclamation to honor the North Central High School Weight Lifting Team. OK, Mr. Cato makes the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. And into discussion, Mr. Cato, you have the floor. First of all, congratulations. I am very proud of North Central High School. They have come a long way. They have an outstanding program and outstanding school up there.
» Assistant, I mean, Athletic Director Sist, head football coach also does an outstanding job and all the coaches do. Ryan does an outstanding job. He always has on strength and conditioning. I was fortunate enough to have children to play at the school and attend this school and I'm very proud of the accomplishments they make. As I am the rest of the schools in this county, to win a state championship is an outstanding accomplishment for any student athlete and it's a very small percentage of student athletes to get to experience a state championship. So it deserves to be recognized. So I thank the coaches and I thank the athletes because it takes a lot of hard work, dedication to keep up with your school, your grades, your strength and conditioning programs.
» So I thank you also for your participation. Thank you, Mr. Cato. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to say, you know, Central High School, congratulations. And as I always told everyone who's come in these chambers, you are the hidden jewel of the district. I know sometimes you don't think that and you think you're up there all by yourself, but remember, you have less population. You have less issues than the other two high schools. And that is a great thing. And you've got phenomenal facilities and teachers. So you are totally blessed. Congratulations on all your hard work. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. With that, all those in favor accepting the proclamation honoring North Central High School weightlifting team indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous.
» If you're here tonight with the weightlifting team, coach or student athlete, please come up to the dais. We want to see how big you guys are. That's who was in the parking lot blocking me from parking. You. Camel legs. Back to the agenda. We're up to item number six, public comments. Well, Mr. DeBose is bringing me the list. I'm going to read the public comment guidance guidelines. Public comment is an opportunity for members of the public to share information. Thank you. With council. It is not a time for debate with or questions and answers from council. It is time for council to receive input, but not a time for council to response to respond. In short, during public comment, council will listen to public comments, but not comment.
» Offensive and inappropriate comments will not be tolerated. If a group would like to speak, we request that a spokesperson be selected and that person indicate which group he or she is representing. Public comment is a time to discuss issues. Public comment period is limited to five minutes maximum allowed per individual speaker. Public comments to council as an agenda item shall be continued, uninterrupted and live streamed by audio and video when available until public comment agenda item is finished and concluded. There are 12 public speakers tonight. And the first speaker is Miranda Servos. Hi, Miranda. Hello. How y'all doing today? I'd like to inform you all of a problem that's going to happen on Holland Road and Cassette.
» There's a developer by the name of Glenn Hall of Hall Custom Homes LLC of Elgin. He's building a subdivision on 99 plus acres there. The problem with that is that I've already talked to several archaeologists for the state and local. There are artifacts on the property for the Catawba tribe and from early archaic period, which are like 10,000 years old. I've got some of the pieces here that I found myself. Let's see. He's cleared off 90% of the acreage that's there. And some of the wildlife has been displaced, including the red-headed woodpecker, which is an endangered species. I want this property, at least the developer, to stop and at least do an excavation so at least somebody can get this documented at the archives. There's artifacts there. I've talked to the Catawba Indian tribe.
» They did tell me that this is their native homestead. And they are looking into whether or not there's actual burial there. I'm still waiting on the phone call back from Dr. Wynonna Hare from the Catawba tribe to verify if there's any types of remains there. But this developer doesn't care. He just wants the money. He wants to build $500,000 houses first. And then he's going to take the rest of the acreage separate into five-acre lots. And then he's going to sell it off. But the problem with that is that since he owns this custom home place, he wants the people who want to live on the property to build with him. And this property backs up to a wetlands, which also backs up to the Big Pine Tree Creek, which was one of the major waterways here in Kershaw County.
» And no one's looking after this stuff. I'm doing my best now with the Catawba Indians, the DNR, Land and Water Conservation, South Carolina Historical Preservation, just to get this site looked at. I just need some other help to get this stopped, at least for temporary. If anything could be done, please help me. I mean, this is something near and dear to my heart. Besides, I live right there on Holland Road. And I don't want to be next to a subdivision either. But I've been here for 25 years. And I don't want to be run out because of a subdivision either. So like I said, if I can get somebody to look into this, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mr. Service. Ms. Service, and you have your phone number on here. Yes. Yes, ma'am, we have it. Thank you.
» Madam Chair, how do you spell the last name? S-E-R-V-O-S-S. I'll just give you the military spelling. Thank you. The next speaker is Julia Fisher. Hi, Julia. Good evening. Thank you very much for this opportunity to discuss and provide some information that I consider near and dear to my heart. And that is horses in the state of South Carolina. The impetus for my remarks was the recent conversation regarding a proposed development in Kershaw County, referred to as the paddocks. This development is proposed that would effectively repurpose, that's a good choice of words, 150 acres of a historical thoroughbred training center as a housing development with over 350 homes.
» The Planning Commission and councils are charged with making decisions to support the residents and constituents of their cities and counties. And I would hope that these divisions, I'm sorry, these decisions are made having considered all relevant information. And on that note, in this case, the South Carolina Horse Council, I represent the Secretary of the South Carolina Horse Council, considers relevant information to include facts and figures regarding the economic impact of the equine sector in the state of South Carolina. To that effect, I have provided the council members individually with a copy of the University of South Carolina Economic Impact of the Equine Sector of South Carolina Report, which was published in 2019. The full report is available online for anyone.
» I have copied the relevant, again, I hope relevant features from the first report, part of the report. And I will read part of it very, very briefly to help fill in for the rest of the parties here what I'm actually talking about. So the purpose of this study was to specifically quantify the economic impact of the equine center in South Carolina. It's pretty well known that South Carolina is recognized as horse country. The study specifically addressed race horse training, polo, fox hunting, showing, and trail riding, but they left out a whole bunch of other disciplines, which most people in Horshaw County, I think, and the city of Camden are familiar with. That would include steeplechase, for one, as part of that thoroughbred racing, dressage, jumping, eventing, rodeos.
» I personally am involved in, I'm sorry, endurance racing, I do 50 mile races on my horse, a little Arabian mare in the state forest here in South Carolina. We have more endurance races in South Carolina than any other state in the conference for that particular sport. So this report, I'm not gonna detail all of it, obviously you have a copy, but the relevant feature is the bottom line, almost two billion dollars in business for the state of South Carolina generated by the equine industry in the state. In spite of that rosy picture, in 2021, the South Carolina General Assembly established the South Carolina Equine Industry Support Measure Study Committee to try to determine why it felt like our equine industry was declining rather than thriving, as that report seemed to indicate.
» And part of what they discovered was in the course of that report, I'm sorry, in that study, which I've also provided for the council members of the relevant pages from that report, was the fact that a lot of the neighboring states surrounding South Carolina have actually taken the initiative to be much more proactive and support the equine sector and their states and are actually attracting a lot of business that is basically flooding over the borders from South Carolina into Florida and Georgia and North Carolina, while South Carolina has been dragging their feet. So the result of this study that was done in February or reported on in February 2022 was that, in fact, there is a number of things that the state could be doing.
» There is a bill that has already gone through, approved by the House. It's now sitting in the Senate subcommittee. It's expected to be out of subcommittee in the next two weeks for a vote that would provide an Equine Advancement Act, is what it's called, that would actually provide support for horses. So I would encourage that all of these places where we're looking at building houses instead of trying to maintain some historical equine industry would actually not benefit the state nearly as much as some of the developers and other financially interested parties would try to suggest. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Fisher. The next speaker is Cindy Titus. Hi, Cindy. I'm the Titus that's gonna be speaking on growth.
» I'm here tonight to express my concerns for another large development that is in the works. Plans were submitted last week for a build project near the Valley Park community located off of Malvern Hills Road. This build is planned for the areas around Malvern Hills, Beverly Hills, and Jefferson Davis Highway. The number of homes allowed to build per acre is going to make a big negative impact on our rural community. I've heard that the plans at this time are two homes per half acre. The type of housing that would be built is more of a starter home size, which would potentially decrease the value of our homes as they are much bigger in size and pricing valuation.
» The roads, schools, Jackson Elementary, Camden Middle, already over capacity, Camden High School, already over capacity, grocery store, emergency services, newer sewer systems can handle this amount of growth at this time. In order for the development to work with our current sewer system, a pump house would be required to be installed somewhere on or near the area in order to handle the outflow of sewage. I am not sure that the county sewer capacity issue has been resolved at this time. The cost would be passed to the taxpayers, and this amount would be quite substantial. Why would the taxpayers, why should the taxpayers have to incur the cost of the sewage for a developer to build? This cost should either be incurred via the new homeowner or the builder.
» I would better support a new community that would only allow one home per acre with a minimum of 3,000 square feet with a septic system installed, so no additional taxes or fees would be built out to the county taxpayers, and the valuation of our homes would be protected somewhat. Furthermore, I request that the roadways into and out of the neighborhood be on number one, Jefferson Davis, versus Malvern Hills or Beverly Hills Road as another way to protect the integrity of our community and to keep the traffic down in our area. I support responsible growth and protecting the integrity of our county. I feel that the builders should be required to do the same. They should be required to install certain buffers, landscaping, fencing, et cetera.
» Going forward, it would be a good idea to make sure this is a standard when building new neighborhoods county-wide until there have been some updates to our current infrastructure, both on paper and actually in place. I passionately request that this type of build be placed on hold as it would be detrimental to our whole community and county as it stands and would not support responsible growth for our county. I would also like to request that our councilmen, District 5, be our voice and stand up for our small community that you so passionately spoke about when running and to help protect this integrity. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Titus. The next speaker is Jessica Hankin-Colter. Hi, Jessica. Say your last name for me. Hanik Colter. Hanik Colter. Yeah, it's Chick, so sorry for that.
» But good evening, council persons, and thank you so much for your time this evening and the opportunity to speak. My neighbor and I have been residents of this Camden community for 50 years and 10 years. I'll let you decide which one's which, but we've always cherished the small, rural feel of our neighborhood. The peace, tranquility, and surrounding wildlife are integral to our way of life. However, new housing developments threaten to disrupt this harmony. We're not against development per se, but we believe it should be done responsibly. It is crucial that any developments on Beverly Hills or Malvern Hills roads maintain the maximum open space and buffers to preserve the character of our community. We also want all traffic to enter and exit on Highway 1.
» According to a study by the American Planning Association, excuse me, maintaining open spaces in residential areas can enhance property values, improve residents' mental health and wellbeing, support local ecosystems' biodiversity, and contribute toward climate change mitigation efforts. Therefore, we call upon local authorities, you, to mandate that all new housing development plans submitted for the Beverly Hills or Malvern Hills road must include the maximum open space and buffers, and traffic patterns to Highway 1. This will ensure that while our town grows with time, it also retains its unique charm, which has been home for so many of us for all these years. The property at 579 Highway 1 North is currently zoned G.D., General Development.
» In the regulations, it says that it should be used to promote the highest and best use of the land without negatively impacting the surrounding land users or environmental resources. When I spoke to this body in January, I asked these same questions. What assessment has been conducted to determine whether the plans have or will negatively impact surrounding land users or environmental resources? Or when will the assessment be done prior to the approval of any plans? I would ask that we maybe consider some additional questions. Ways to consider responsible growth, might they include minimum lot sizes, sewer capacity considerations, or schools and our emergency response systems, or might we consider impact fees? I know this body has discussed those as well.
» I submitted a FOIA request to the county so that perhaps we can have an informed discussions on the plan. And I wanna acknowledge the staff of the county, all of whom have been very professional and prompt in responding. I believe this is a demonstration of how we can work together. Included in this packet are the signatures of almost 400 community members so far. Also examples of some of the letters that have been sent to the county staff. This is evidence that the community is expressing our need to be considered. Whether any development will impact our land uses and environmental resources. As you make plans for growth for our rural community, I formally request you take the concerns of the citizens seriously.
» Oh, by the way, before I left this evening, Councilperson Jones, one of my neighbors, Benny Hall, wanted me to tell you that he doesn't want all that traffic in his front yard. I know Benny. I know you do. Thank you all very much for your time. Thank you, Jessica. Jessica, do you have the petition? Can you give that to Hannah, please? And do you need it back? Okay. The next speaker is Elizabeth Higgins. Hi, Elizabeth. Thank you for letting me speak. And also, I wanna thank the Cameron Chronicle for their reporting on all the complicated issues that are swirling around us. Last week's paper included an article that I was very happy to see. It was on the front page, and it was entitled City and County to Form Joint Equine Committee. I do hope this works out.
» Kudos to Brant Tomlinson and to Jeffrey Graham for spearheading this, probably as a result of the proposed development of the Cameron Training Center and all the vehement opposition to it. The first item on the committee's agenda, I believe, should be to establish equine overlays on many parts of the community and historic equine overlays on many areas such as the Cameron Training Center. That entire facility, the Cameron Training Center, is eligible to be on the National Historic Register as a, quote, a property associated with events which have made a significant contribution to the broad pattern of history, end of quote. This training center is the only public thoroughbred facility planned and built by a woman in the United States in the 1930s. Marianne DePont Scott was unique.
» She did what no other woman did in her era, and the CTC is a product of the huge strides she made, including the design and construction of some of the stables and barns at the CTC. There are many local residents who would be great serving on this committee, and as we know, the horse industry impacts an economy that ranges from professional sports to individual ownership, almost $1 million in, $3 million rather, in yearly revenue to Kershaw County. We need to fight to preserve it along with the CTC, and we may want to consider a moratorium on development for a few years until a comprehensive plan can be reviewed, put in place that emphasizes quality of life and really sets those standards for the community, and it should be transparent, and so those are my thoughts for this evening.
» Thank you very much. Thank you. Madam Chair. Yes, sir. Will you follow up to see where that committee's at? Yes, I will. I haven't heard anything else about it since it was in the paper. Yes, absolutely. The next speaker tonight is Chris Shermerhorn. Hi, Chris. Did I pronounce your name correctly? Okay. Good evening, Council. Thanks for hearing me talk tonight. My name is Chris Shermerhorn. I'm a managing partner of Mohawk RV. We're a leading holder of Quality Recreational Vehicle Parks in the Southeast. Thank you for the IT gentlemen for putting our PDF up. I hope you guys can see it in your screens. Basically, why I'm here tonight is there is a road, Dolan Lane, in unincorporated Liberty Hill area, District 1. This street is about 2,500 feet long.
» Currently, it's an unmaintained county road, dirt, gravel base. It serves about 25 houses, parcels, and the RV park. My request tonight is I spoke with the Planning and Zoning Commission and Dan Canty, Public Works Director, regarding the improvement of this road. We are willing to put a sizable contribution to improving this road by an asphalt layer on top. We actually have a development arm of our company that has internal, we can do paving internally. We actually just finished a project in North Carolina, Iredell County, where we contributed $118,000 to about 1,500 foot of county road up there. And we're looking to really do the same thing down here and partner with you folks.
» The reason I'm coming to you guys, not the Planning and Zoning Commission, obviously, is there's no real mechanism to allow the approval of these kind of funds directly from the planning board. Based on the size of the road right now in the current condition of the sub-base, it's pretty well-prepped. The Public Works Department does a great job as it is right now. They run a motor grader on it about every month. And so the base is real packed in. We can pretty much go over it fairly quickly. I think our estimate is around $80,000 to pave this road. Not only will it serve about a 40 foot access to our parcel, but again, it'll also serve about 25 other lots throughout that right away. So there is a land code in the zoning and land development regulations that stipulates this.
» But again, there's no real mechanism for potentially partnering with the county to utilize some of these funds. I've kind of looked through the Public Works budget. Obviously, I don't want to strip them of any of their funds, but they do have a sizable expense for stone that I see every single year in the tune of about $300,000 for fiscal year 24. So I know it is a problem for some of the unmaintained roads. And I do think that if we were able to put a surface layer on top of this road, it would not only help us, but the county as well, fiscally. So I appreciate it. I think I left my number with the clerk. Is that how you go? No, sir, it's not on this form, but if you will write it down and give it to Mr. Templer, please. Cool, okay. Madam Chair. Yes, sir.
» The Transportation Committee, CTC, we need to make sure if you'll have Mr. Templer contact him with their information so he can get in and meet with them. Yes, sir. What's the CTC? We're not gonna get into a discussion right now, sir, I'm sorry, but if you'll give your number to Mr. Templer, him or I will get in touch with you. Great, okay. Go over the details. Thank you, folks. Have a good night. Thank you. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Braswell. Being that it's in District One, I'll be happy to help. Okay, thank you. And Chris, thank you for being here tonight. The next speaker is Scott Chambers. Hi, Scott. Handouts for you folks. There's gonna be a test at the end of this. Mr. Templer. I'll be quick, I promise. So my name's Scott Chambers.
» I'm a Kershaw resident, and I'm also one of your volunteers at the Airport Commission at the airport. So I came to speak a little bit about the development that's being done out in that area. So with continuing development in Kershaw County comes the opportunity for inappropriate land use near the airport. David Smith with the South Carolina Aeronautics Commission has a great presentation that could be used by the council to better guide policy and decision of appropriate land uses around Woodward Airfield. The information will be presented in a PowerPoint presentation by David, who is also the manager and airport safety inspector for the South Carolina Aeronautics Commission. The purpose of sharing the information will be answering questions. David is also a resident of Kershaw County.
» I respectfully suggest that the Kershaw County commissioners invite David to share his presentation with you and his awareness and help educate and report with no political bias one way or the other, just to share what he knows. That's it. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Chambers. Thank you. The next speaker is Sue Sensor. Hi, Sue. Good to be here this evening. I don't know that there's a whole lot more that I can say that hasn't already been said about the development of the training center. I've seen it when it was looming with horses. I watched them gallop on the track and I watched them follow their career when they went to the races and see it every month when I read in the magazines how they're doing. I miss seeing the Camden Training Center in that magazine.
» I saw it drying up and I've seen the horse population in Camden diminish over the years. I just hope that you all will listen to the people in this town who do not want another development. If you've not been to Columbia recently, I was just going in there today and on both sides of the road, as far as the eye can see, it's development, development, development. Out where we live, it's happening out on our side of town. When just going into the area near the Walmart at rush hour, it can take you five minutes to get to the right if you've come out of the Walmart parking lot. We don't need more houses. We need more open space and there's much better options to use that property. I think most of the horsemen would agree with me that a vet clinic would be an ideal place for that.
» We need one closer than Tryon or Raleigh or Georgia. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's lost a horse that couldn't get to a clinic in time to save them. If we had one here in Camden, it would be a very, very, very good use of that property and actually all of the suggestions, the jockey school, the retired horse park, it could all be done in that land and you'd still have some open space. Someone, I read something today about a proposed turkey farm and all I could think of was coyotes because coyotes love turkeys and if you have a turkey farm near you, you can hear the coyotes at night. I thank you for your time. Thank you, Ms. Sensor. The next speaker is Melissa Barton. Hi, Melissa. I'm actually really impressed with the county.
» I have attended a lot of meetings lately at City Council fighting this Camden Training Center development. I've actually been to a couple meetings here as well and I think that what we have here is an attempt to slow the development down. I know you've heard the cries from the people. That's what they want. In every corner of this county, someone is asking you to slow the development down. If you haven't spent the five minutes at Walmart, I implore you to please do that. Please just go and watch the traffic. If you don't like it there, try downtown Camden.
» We have places that are suffering that could really use development, that could use some revitalization, things that we could do that would better the environment around us for everybody that doesn't benefit just one singular person which is what the county's here for. That's what you guys are here for. You're to make sure that everybody's happy and I know that's a hard job. I know there's a lot of people that are gonna get up here with their torches and their pitchforks but I've seen you change the minimum lot sizes to help us control the growth. I've seen that happen. I know that we're going in a good direction. What I'm here for is to ask you to keep it going because today's a good day for military kids but I'm a mom of just regular kids but they're your town kids.
» They live in your county. They go to your schools. Their mom shops at your stores. If we don't take care of what we got, my kids won't have anything and they have no voice. There's no one saying, hey, you know what, this development might be a problem for these kids in 15 years. There's no one saying that the widening of 521 could create problems for my kids in 20 years. You guys, I want you to vote like it's gonna matter in 20 years. I don't want you to vote for me. I don't want you to vote to make me happy. I don't want you necessarily to even worry so much about your own situations but I know there's parents on this board. I know you want what's best for the next generation.
» So when we're all out here asking, consider the next generation that's gonna be up here asking what they're gonna want, what they're gonna need and vote for them. Every time a development comes across the table, think is that's what's best for our future. Not for us but for the future because those are the voices you're not hearing. Those are the little kids. Those are the ones like my kids. My kids wanna speak here. They wanna come to this podium and they wanna ask you, my children wanna ask you to slow it down. Take care of the town that used to belong to my granddaddy. My granddaddy that remembers before you got on council and I know he would want me here asking you to keep it slow. 97 Highway, it's coming our way.
» The land that my family owns has owned my entire life that is gonna be handed down to me and my kids. It's gonna see a development on its doorstep if we don't do something. We, all of us, the voters, the people we vote for, that's the program. We have to work together. You have to hear the voices and you have to act on what we need and that's what I'm asking you. So when you don't see the little people, you don't see my beautiful 18-year-old daughter who wants to come back from college in a few years and start a bakery downtown because Mulberry was the best thing that she can remember and that's what she wants. We don't want a chain on Main Street. We want her to come home to Kershaw County and make this her home and maybe send one of your seats one day and make us proud that way.
» You have a chance to either raise the bar, hold the standard, or let us become just another town, just another county, undistinguishable from anybody else. And that's not what we want. I know that's not what anybody here wants. That's not why you got elected to your position. You got elected because you cared, every one of you. And the people behind you care, behind me care. I care. This won't be the last time you hear from me but I do it respectfully because I know that the people up here doing their best. And I implore you in the future when you see things that come across your table, voting second, voting third, to think about my kids, your kids, your kids. I know your kids. These kids matter and they're not able to, they don't even know what's going on.
» So take them into consideration and thank you for the work you have already done. I appreciate it very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Ms. Barton. The next speaker is Ted Brunson. Hi, Ted. Hard act to follow there. Sorry guys, best you got. Thank you for your service. I can now see how you can keep this herd of cats in line. I think they all appreciate and understand. I think y'all are about to enter one of the most challenging times here in the county in watching this county grow. So I'm gonna keep it short. I even said that the last time and I think somebody appreciated it. So I'll try and keep it. So what I did, and this is of course about the CTC, I pinned a letter and I'll tell you who I send it to after I read the letter.
» But it says Camden, South Carolina is the oldest inland city in the great state of South Carolina is currently wrestling with what we have become the fastest growing state in the union. Growth doesn't necessarily mean prosperity. Uncontrolled growth is called cancer. The residents of Kershaw County and the city of Camden itself have a New York slash Chicago lawyer that has proposed making one of the earliest and best known equine centers in the nation into a 790 home housing development. Granted the current owner has property rights to basically do as he pleases but when the owner does not even reside in the state and while this housing project will overwhelm the existing school systems along with our other public services, something needs to be done on both the state and federal level.
» The Camden Training Center was built by Marion Dupont Scott in the late 1930s. Ms. Scott constructed a state of the art horse facility that went on to be copied across the country based on many innovative designs still used today. She would later donate the Springdale Race Course portion to the state of South Carolina which has thousands of visitors yearly and brings in millions of dollars annually into the local economy. The current owner will send his profits north while saddling the residents of Kershaw County and the city of Camden with strained public services, higher taxes and a school system that is currently short of 42 teachers. The property in the county but is surrounded by the city.
» The property is located in a predominantly African-American community where several generations have worked on the CTC. If the housing project has built many long-term members of the African-American community will be displaced by higher tax burden and a huge buyout offers from other greedy real estate developers. Ms. Scott employed many of the very first African-American trainers and jockeys in the horse industry. Not only was she the first woman to do so, Ms. Scott also had the courage to do it during when the Jim Crow laws were at their height. She was also a driving reason behind the building of the May Plant just across the Watery River in Lugoff. The plant still provides many jobs and tax revenue to the area.
» What we're asking for is for the state and other federal portions of our government to investigate an alternate outcome to this very important and historic piece of property. This could come in the form of grants, land commission opportunities, tax opportunities, options, excuse me, and equine-centric businesses. We have identified three possible businesses that would provide local jobs, horse-centric in nature and all the while providing both taxes and local revenue, which would remain here in both South Carolina and Kershaw County. The last thing we need to see is a bulldozer's blade continuing to rake the land of history and of industry of what may very well be the best equine center in the Southeast.
» We don't want to see the only thing left remaining of this patch of green as a bronze plaque explaining what used to be there. Sincerely, Ted Brunson. This letter was sent by registered mail to the Governor Henry McMaster, Pamela Everett, Lindsey Graham, Tim Scott, Ralph Norman, Penry Gustafson, Ben Connell, Christine Spain, she's the director of the Democratic Party, Drew McKissick, director of the South Carolina GOP and former governor, Mrs. Nikki Haley. Along with that letter, again, which was registered, was the contact information of both the city of Camden Council as well as your contact information, including names and any email. So if you get a letter or an email or a phone call from Washington, D.C., please pick it up. Hopefully this will not fall on deaf ears.
» And I have a copy for all of y'all. And again, I cannot express my gratitude for your service. It goes deep in my family, so I sincerely appreciate what y'all have done. You've got a tough time calling ahead. If you need any help, give me a holler. You got my number. Thank you, Mr. Brunson. The next speaker is Lynn Canto. Hi, Lynn. Second, don't start yet. I'm Lynn Canto. I live at 1265 Sanders Creek Road. And I wanna thank you, first of all, for being willing to support an equine committee in Kershaw County with the city and the county. It's been long overdue. Second of all, I wanted to let you know, I bet you didn't realize the horse that won the Carolina Cup actually trained at the Camden Training Center.
» They were in the barn of Shadwell and then later got purchased by another group and raced in the Carolina Cup and won. That's just a little tidbit of history. Another tidbit of history is Battleship is the only horse to have won the Grand National and the American Grand National. Let me put this in statistics for you so you understand. There have been 13 horses that have won the Tripper Crown, okay? This is the only horse in the whole world to accomplish this. And 36 horses started out in the race and only 16 finished. That's huge. So let me tell you what I think you need to know about the horses in Camden. Springdale currently has 45 horses stabled there now. During the Carolina Cup, 39 horses were racing, three outriders riding, and about almost 40,000 people in attendance.
» 15 additional horses were stabled to go on to Aiken for the next meet. Hotels were booked from Camden, Lugoff, Bishopville, and Clemson Road. But I bet you didn't know, on the same weekend as the Carolina Cup, there was the Hallelujah Ride, which is an endurance ride, and there were 83 horses with 83 riders participating. This past weekend, there was the Boykin Spring Fling with 50 horses and 112 people participating in a lunch. And this same weekend, on the fifth, sixth, and seventh at the South Carolina Equine Park, you had 125 horses, 112 riders, and 30 trainers, and at least 100 plus parents and grandparents watching. You had the Camden Hunt Horse Show where you had 30 horses participating.
» So it's very important that we participate in what's called an equine overlay with the city and county to understand the impact that horses are having on our community. And have a designated horse district, have an equine committee that works towards responsible development, a moratorium for the city and county on subdivisions, limiting and reducing the impact on our infrastructure, and have an equine impact follow-up with our representatives. Because I really don't think they know there are 94,000 horses in Kershaw County. A lot of them we don't even know about. A lot of them don't get their shots, but they are impacting the feed store, the vets, the chiropractor, the horse dentist.
» And I really don't think everybody clearly understands the impact of removing an equine facility in Kershaw County. Please, please take a great amount of time and think about the impact this will have on our community. Thank you for my time. Thank you, Ms. Condeau. That concludes public comments for tonight. Thank you to everybody that signed up and everybody that spoke. We're up to item number seven on the agenda, approval of the minutes. This is the Tuesday, March 26th regular meeting. Is there a motion pertaining to those minutes at this time? Madam Chair, excuse me, Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Tucker. I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes. Okay. That's a minute. Mr. Tucker makes a motion to approve, and Mr. Tomlinson seconds. Any discussion? I'll be abstaining. Okay. Mr.
» Shoemake is abstaining. And I just wanna say thank you to Ms. Hannah, Madam Chair. Yeah. We'll wait just a second to let the public speakers leave. All right, we're in discussion for the approval of the minutes. Thank you, Ms. Hannah. Again, another wonderful job on the minutes. Right, any other comments, concerns? Okay. All those in favor of approving the Tuesday, March 26th, 2024 regular meeting minutes indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel, with Mr. Shoemake abstaining for absence, correct, sir? Yes. Thank you. Right, up to discussions. Report concerning the RX and illicit drug summit. Please chime in at any point in time. I just wanted to bring back the information from the drug summit in Atlanta last week.
» It was eye-opening. It was wonderful. It was also very heavy because it's a very heavy topic. So some of the things that the coalition is working on right now are things that we heard from other states that they're doing the same thing. One is naloxone, naloxone distribution in our schools. Some things other states are doing that we want to do, for example, commercials and education in the community. The coalition is charged with opioid overdose response and prevention, but what we learned from the other states and some of the other coalitions is that it's very multifaceted. It's a problem that touches other drugs, substance abuse disorders, mental health, and there's a lot of tentacles that kind of come out from there. So I wanted to extend the invite to counsel and also the community.
» If you have any interest serving on the opioid coalition, we need people from every geographic location in the county. We are underrepresented right now in Elgin area. Even though there is data on overdoses there, we would like to have somebody on our coalition to serve just to be in that part of the community. But if you have any interest in serving on the community, please, this isn't like only so many council members can be their kind of thing. It's gonna be all hands on deck to figure out how to spend the settlement money and how to best position this community to respond to this crisis. It was very scary to see some of the new ways drugs are entering the country and how they're getting in here. Very scary.
» It was very scary to learn there's 300 deaths a day and half of those are accidental and they were even starting to call them poisonings, which means someone took a drug that was laced with fentanyl or laced with something that killed them that they never intended to do. That's very scary when we think about the way drugs are introduced in the schools and to our youth. So it was a very heavy topic, but we learned a lot. So if you have any ideas or interest in it, I just invite you to come to a meeting. You don't need to be on the coalition. You can come to a meeting or two if you want. If you have any ideas for your district or you have any citizens that wanna get involved, just please let me know. And any questions about the summit or, yes, Mr. Tucker.
» Yes, ma'am, can you shoot those dates to us if y'all have them already pre-planned for the meeting? Yes, absolutely, yes. And I know I was supposed to be an initial part of this when it started and I had a lot going on personally, so I wasn't able to travel, but I'm happy to get more involved and do what I can because that's dear and near to me as well. And it's not just fentanyl now, it's horse tranquilizers that they're doing these things with. It is incredible what young minds and foolish minds can come up with to kill themselves. Yes. Georgia has made a lot of advancements at their state legislative level, too, so that's one of the things we're gonna invite the legislative delegation to start coming to our meetings to see if there's something we can do on a bigger scale.
» There was a mother there that spoke. Her son thought that he needed Xanax and he ordered it somewhere online illegally because he thought that he was self-medicating and thought he needed it. It had fentanyl in it, it killed him, one pill. So that's the kind of stuff that's happening that's super scary and the coalition wants to educate the community and get in front of it so that we can do anything we can to save someone's life. It makes you almost afraid just to take your prescriptions that you get from the pharmacy because you don't know what crazy people are doing. It's sad. Yep, it is. But thank you for going. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule. And it's already planned for next year, the third week in April.
» It will be in Nashville, so if you're interested in going. They have different tracks, so I went on kind of more legislative tracks, but they have EMS, FIRE, clinical, different tracks for any kind of, we had jail representation there. Will Dolly be in town that weekend? Will who? In Nashville, I'll go if she's gonna be in town. You will? Well, Madonna was in Atlanta. I missed it. Yes, Mr. Jones. Madam Chair, if I may, I normally don't comment on these things when they're connected with Alpha Center, but this is a little bit different. One thing that I have learned living with Mara Horton-Jones is she told me, Jimmy, I don't think any child said, I wanna grow up to be a drug addict. Nope. Any child, I wanna grow up and be addicted to alcohol.
» So you know what? I commend y'all for what you're doing and I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. One other topic that I wanted to bring up that I think that council can help in our districts and around the community is the stigma associated with substance use disorder. So there's even stigma with the Narcan and the Naloxone use that's negative and I really wanna try to change that as a community. Should people be doing drugs? No, they shouldn't. Of course, no one would choose that like Mr. Jones said, but we do have an opportunity with the Naloxone to save someone's life. So I think we should, whether they got into drugs on purpose or not, we really need to combat that stigma that lives are important and saving one is important. Madam Chair, I don't think a lot of people understand it.
» It doesn't have to be ingested. It could simply be something that you could get at the gas pump if somebody had it on their hands or had it and put it on the gas pump handle and you touch your mouth, your eyes, your nose. I mean, you can overdose off the simplest stuff. We've had several officers before that were doing searches and hit fentanyl dust and it go in your nose and they overdose immediately. So this is very important in letting the community know that it's not just if you're taking a drug, it can happen in many, many different ways. Yes, thank you for bringing that up. Mr. Tucker. Yes, ma'am. I would like to too, because I know we're doing it out at my job.
» AEDs are big in the industry and where you work at and with schools and things, but we're putting the Narcan in our first aid stations on our job because of these reasons that you're speaking about. And so we might wanna try to educate our local industry and try to get some type of commitment where they can have some on site. Just a suggestion, but I can talk more to you personally. Yes, absolutely, thank you. And Kevin Rhodes is the director of the coalition and any member of this community can go to the Alpha Center or contact Kevin and get naloxone and keep it in your car, keep it in your purse, keep it on your person. That is open to every single person. So help me spread that word also. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Jones. I'm remiss if I didn't say thank you for your leadership on this.
» I mean, you jumped in at head first and I appreciate it. Well, thank you. All right, item number nine, ordinances. First ordinance tonight, second reading of an ordinance of Kershaw County Council to amend the membership provisions for the Kershaw County Clean Community Commission by adding two at-large membership positions. First reading was March 26th. Is there a motion for the second reading? Madam Chair, I make a motion for we approve second reading. Okay, Mr. Tucker makes the motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Cato. Mr. Tucker, you have the floor to start off. I just wanted to say thank you when we discussed this last meeting. I know Mr.
» Cato wanted to raise it up to make sure that we had representation in all of the districts, but also our chair position would have a opportunity to select someone as well, so thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Cato. Yes, just something simple here. I think we may have overlooked. It was actually brought up to my attention by one of the commission members. But maybe we need to clarify a little bit in section B to make sure that we have some verbiage in this ordinance to say that each district has a representative, must have at least one representative from each district. I know it says that each councilman can nominate one person, but I think we need to have it in there to where it more clearly identifies that it needs to be one representative from each six districts.
» Can I comment on that, Madam Chair? Yes, Mr. Tucker. If you go that detail, and this was deliberate when we first did it up, what if you can't get someone to serve in your district? Then you leave a vacancy or a void versus that I'm hoping that every council member, and I believe this honestly, will always pick someone from their district. But what if I've honestly search and I do not have a person that wants to serve? Now I'm stuck with no representation at all that I appointed. I think that can probably come before a special vote or something by council to add someone outside of the district.
» Or could we make an exception to saying, you know, search, have an appointment within your district if there's not a representative within a month timeline, then you're able to pull from somewhere else in the county. Because I'd rather have someone serving than no one serving. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that 100%. I mean, I'll go along with whatever you guys wanna do. I don't know that we need to say that. I think that obviously we all know we should be doing that, but you know, you may have a particular council member that feels differently. I always nominate people from district three for district appointments, but I don't have any heartburn one way or the other. I'm fine with it not being in there, but if you guys think it should be in there, I'll join that course as well.
» Mr. Cato, you got some feedback from some of the commissioners. Have they seen that in the past where they have? Well, I think it goes from the past. As a matter of fact, I don't think they have but one representative from over in the low golf areas from what I understand, and maybe y'all can help me with that. And she didn't live in my district, but I've been trying to get it for four years. Look at the job she's done as Chairman Jill Wolf. Right, yeah. And that's what I'm saying. So I don't wanna be able to limit myself when you have someone that you know wants to put the hours in, wants to put the work in. Do the work. I don't think we need to, with all due respect, tie our hands. And she's one of the ones that came to me. I'm encouraged to go with our district, absolutely. But.
» She's one of the ones that came to me that was concerned that maybe each district wasn't getting the proper representation. So. It's a fair concern, yeah. It's a very fair concern that there was more people from one particular area of the county on the commission rather than spread about the county. And I think this council is working to try and correct that at this time. It may take a little bit for the cycle to come around. But it was just something I wanted to bring up to see if maybe there was some kind of verbiage we might wanna change in this. And I'm good either way. Okay. Madam Chair. Yes, go ahead. I'm sorry. I would certainly support it if you wanted to put that language in it or if council decides not to.
» I will commend this council though for doing a much better job at diversifying every single board and commission and going into your districts and nominating. Just like Mr. Shoemake said, that's something we've just all done a better job at doing. Yes, ma'am. Because this is not the only board was a little lopsided, Mr. Cato. But also remember this board went dormant. Mr. Jones, before we started it back up. And so- We had to fight to get it back up. Yeah. And so it may not be picture perfect, but I think with the members that's sitting up here, we'll get where we need to be on our own. Just duly noted that we need to do some work in the west of the waterway. Okay. Any other discussion, amendments? So- Yes, Mr. Brezel. I heard from Mrs. Wolf as well, same concern.
» And I think the idea is that we have people from every part of the county keeping their part of the county clean so we keep the entire county clean. So that's the idea. And I'm kind of like you, I'm okay either way. I think we're doing the best we can with the volunteers that we have. Secondly, she had a few other items that she wanted to reach out to us about. So if I receive an email, I'll share it with everyone. A few minor changes. And they were all pretty valid and simple. So I just wanted to share that with you all as well. Okay, thank you, Mr. Brezel. And maybe we can all get together in the meantime and make those changes for third reading. Just make your amendments before county council and county council on third reading. Yes, sir, we will.
» All right, any other comments? All right, all those in favor of the second reading of this ordinance, an ordinance of Kershaw County Council to amend the membership provisions of the Clean Community Commission indicated by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Kato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brezel. All right, we'll see that April 23rd for third reading. Next ordinance, second reading. This is case 24-06, an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of Kershaw County to rezone approximately 4.9 acres of property owned by Joe and Cindy Smith, located on the north side of Mill Creek Trace with addresses of 116 and 120 Mill Creek Trace Elgin, South Carolina, from R-15 Low Density Residential District to R-D2 Rural Resource District.
» Is there a motion at this time on the second reading? I'll make the motion. Okay, motion to approve by Mr. Brezel. Is there a second? Second. Okay, second by Mr. Tomlinson. And Mr. DeBose, are there any changes on this second reading? No, Madam Chair. Okay. Any questions for Mr. DeBose? No, no discussion. As I recall, they're actually going to a lower density. Is that right? This is, yes, going from R-15 to R-D2, so it's a down zoning. Yeah, and they wanted to allow for a mobile home or on the property, was that the case? Okay. All those in favor, I'm sorry, Mr. Brezel, any other questions? No, all done. All those in favor of approving the second reading of case 24-6 indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. Third reading will be April 23rd on that property.
» Next is a second reading, case 24-08. In ordinance to amend the official zoning map of Kershaw County to rezone approximately 6.3 acres of property owned by Andrew Collins and located on the west side of Smyrna Road with an address of 1147 Smyrna Road, Elgin, South Carolina, from MRD-1 Rural Resource District to RD-2 Rural Resource District. Is there a motion at this time for the second reading? I'll make the motion for that as well. Okay, Mr. Brezel makes the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. Mr. Brezel, you have the floor. Same scenario. More or less, Councilman Brazel, this is a rezoning for a single-wide manufactured home to be placed on the property as a primary residence. The current zoning only allows for double-wide.
» There was, I believe, a concern expressed at the Planning Commission meeting about whether this property could be further subdivided, turned into a mobile home park. That's not the case here. It has a limited road frontage, so further subdivision would not be. No issues, thank you. Any other questions, concerns? All right, all those in favor of second reading of case 24-08 indicate by raising your hand, and the vote is unanimous. Third reading will be on April 23rd.
» Next, a second reading, case 24-10, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations to remove Table 5-10 and amend Chapter 5, Section 3.8-3 and Chapter 5, Section 3.8-6 to update and clarify road design standards by reference and incorporation of design criteria and standards of the South Carolina Asphalt Pavement Association, also known as SCAPA. I would move that we adopt second reading of this ordinance. Okay, Mr. Shoemake moves to adopt it. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. And into discussion, Mr. Shoemake, you have the floor. No, I mean, I was not here, but I did listen, I watched the recording, and I'm supportive of this amendment.
» I think this road standards kind of comports what we're already doing as a practical matter, and I think it goes with our, I think it goes in line with our efforts to try to make quality growth a thing, a big thing going forward. So I'm supportive of it, that's all I have. Okay, thank you. If I may. Yes, Mr. Jones, and then Mr. Cooper. I'm in absolute disagreement with that. I think it's more bureaucracy. I think it's just, once again, affordable housing is gonna get hard with this, because it's gonna be passed right down to the consumer. And not only that, we've been living with what we've got for the last 20 years, and I haven't seen any of some of our subdivisions deteriorate that fast. You know, whatever the restriction is now has seemed to be working well. Mr.
» Jones, I will tell you that I have seen numerous, I've gotten numerous calls in my district, and have been out. In fact, Mr. Templar and I went out to one that the road is, Indian Meadows, it's just been getting repaved, but an absolute mess. And I've seen even newer subdivisions with cracks. I live in a newer subdivision, and there have been already potholes and cracks in the road, and it's a subdivision that's only five years old. I think the way we did things 20 years ago was a better way, probably would've been comport with these standards. But I think now people are going for the cheapest thing they can do to build as much as they can. So I would respectfully disagree. And I respectfully disagree with you.
» But let me say this, I would like it if we'd give ourselves a little bit more time to look at this, instead of just kind of... This is second reading, so we've got two more weeks before third reading. Mr. Templar, did you have any data for us that we asked for on first reading? As far as number of roads that aren't lasting 20 years and... No, but this is a subdivision that was paved around two years ago. We keep rolling through, there's three photos. So what we're ending up doing is because the thicknesses are just not sufficient. You said this is two years old? This is two years old. And so... Is that in Elgin? Is that in district three? District three. So this would be the current standard set. All these new developments that are being proposed would be under, correct? Yes, sir.
» And this is what we're trying to get away. So what we're ending up doing is when these roads fail, they typically have a performance bond on them, and then we have a one-year warranty period. We'll do a final inspection of that one year, but these are not, they're just not sufficient. So we met on this particular road. We extended the warranty. The installer manufacturer of this road went out and sealed some of the cracks at the time, but you can see these are not sealed. And then there were some other photos. I don't know if it was back one or two, but that crack, can we go back one more? You can see some of the sealing material in there, but you can see where it is kind of is deviating from that repair. New cracks. Going out. And what's gonna happen is what they call alligatoring.
» There's gonna, moisture's gonna seep under this surface and then start to crack, and then you're gonna have where it looks like little, like an argyle shape. Call it alligatoring, and it's from moisture. And this is what we're trying to get away from. We just want one solid standard across the county. Personally not interested in any kind of custom road for this area or that area. The soil is different in different parts of the county. It is. Yes sir, it is. That would be an absolute unnecessary burden. I mean to say you want it county wide all the same. Well it's, and it's what we're doing right now with the CTC. This is a standard. So three and a half inches is when the CTC comes in and paves a county dirt road when they design it and drain it.
» So when it goes from dirt to pavement, this is the exact same standard they're using. And it's sufficient. It's a 20 year surface. We were, again, going back to the previous meeting, we were warned by CTC that our inventory is growing with these massive subdivisions coming in. And what concerns me is we have a road fee for Kershaw County residents. We have some CTC money. It goes to resurfacing, it goes to building roads where they will again go from a sand road or a dirt road over to a paved road. Not every road is a good candidate for that. But what concerns me is we, as we continue to build and we have subpar roads, we are gonna outpace our road fee significantly. And that's gonna mean just if in the future we're gonna have, there's gonna be road increase in fee, road fee increases.
» But I think if we just go with a standard, a blanket standard, three and a half inches throughout the county, we end up with a 20 year product. And again, a lot of these subdivisions are being put in roughly at the same time, within a year, 18 months of each other. So arguably they're gonna fail at the same time. And so if we end up with subpar roadways failing at the same time, all we can do is patch. And that's a prediction? It's, yes, sir. It's just a prediction. I mean, I've walked, I don't think there's many houses in West Worley that are streets I haven't been and we've had some issues with paving on some, no question. But you got one crack there. I just would like some time to really look at it before we come back and make a standard such as this county wide.
» When we know that, that is absolutely not fair when you talk about the soil samples and treatment is different in different parts of the county. Mr. Temple, is it fair to say that doing this, that this is increasing the quality of the road from what our current standard is? You said number one. And one you just said about the road user fee. So basically by doing this, we're creating a longer lasting, better quality road that in turn will allow these new developments and everything that are coming to pay upfront without putting the update of the roads on the back of Kershaw County residents and taxpayers. Correct. Okay, I'm a hundred percent. So I don't, we're not changing the standard.
» If I'm reading the exhibit one correctly, a 20 year roadway life is the design requirement for Kershaw County. That's the standard. You pave a road that lasts 20 years. So Mr. Templer, did the staff research at all how to hold the people accountable who are not meeting that standard? Because I also agree that a blanket, there are good roads in Kershaw County. And the extra cost, it's kind of like a punishment for all. The people that didn't do good on their roads, we're gonna do this blanket kind of bureaucratic way of making sure it doesn't happen again when I wanna hold the people who aren't meeting the 20 year standard accountable. So we don't have this issue with every road builder.
» And to be quite frank, our large track builders come in and they'll put four inches down and they don't bat an eye. Their infrastructure, now we're not getting probably the best product in terms of housing, but their infrastructure, the way they roll curb, gutter, drainage, spot on. I mean, it's exactly what you would want. And so some of the smaller builders that come in, they just don't have that cash flow. And so they're looking to go thinner, typically speaking. So we do have performance bonds and it's for one year, but this is two years. So if we performance bond this product, this is two years out. And then now we're gonna be repaving this in probably three or four years. We'll patch a lot of this complaint based. I don't know what the subsurface looks like.
» We've had to go in and fold that patch and mill. And what concerns me is when some of these are in smaller subdivisions, it's a small street. It may just be 30 houses with cul-de-sac. So the CTC is not gonna be inclined to go and mobilize significant amounts of equipment just to patch that, even though it's in dire need without a stronger project being around the corner. And it's just about economics. So if there's a large project in proximity, they can better justify the mobilization cost to do these smaller streets. So I just. I'd like to see 10 of these. I'd like to see 10 rows that looks like this, not one example. The standard is written. We're not changing the standard. Can we not go to.
» Isn't it changing the standard of the classification? Because currently it's SCDOT, and now it's changing it to South Carolina Asphalt Pavement Association. It's changing it to a different association. Right, but the 20-year road life design requirement is still there. So a road needs to last 20 years. The problem is. Why do we care how it lasts 20 years? Well, I think the problem is that's. That's fairish care. If it lasts 20 years on two inches or three inches, it needs to last 20 years. Well, the problem too is you've got ambiguity about what to say what a 20-year road is. That's the goal, but then you got to read deeper and say, what is the standard for a 20-year road? And right now our statute, our regulations say that a lesser inch of asphalt will be a 20-year road.
» 20-year road is almost like a term of art. You can try to enforce it, but we've defined ourselves into a corner in saying that we believe a 20-year road is this thinner asphalt. So what we're saying now is that a 20-year road is actually the sticker asphalt. Is that fair? Well, we actually say it. I'm sorry, Mr. DeBose. Go ahead. I think the current posture with this is that the ZLDR contains a provision that all roads need to be designed to SCDOT specs are better and have a 20-year pavement design. There's also a table that has, I believe, a two-inch pavement design or two and a half.
» It is staff, through real-world evidence and even reports that are submitted, geotech reports, have determined that that standard or that thickness in the table certainly does not reach a 20-year design standard. Because the code contained a 20-year design standard in reference to SCDOT specs, staff reached out to SCDOT for a 20-year design based on Kershaw County soils and SCDOT experience in Kershaw County. And SCDOT basically said to satisfy your 20-year standard, you need to be at three and a half. I believe SCAPA mirrored that statement at the last meeting. So yes, Mr. Shoemake, to your point, there is this conflict within the regs of a chart with a thickness that has clearly demonstrated not the last 20 years.
» And right now, if we were to go after someone and say you didn't build a 20-year road and they said, but I used your chart, we'd have a very difficult time holding them accountable when they used our own chart. I think, I don't wanna hypothesize our guess as to assess on the merits any dispute in that, but there's certainly appear that there's a basis for a dispute. Again, I think the more restrictive standard probably rule the day, which would be a 20-year design. But nonetheless, there is a specific chart in the code that has a design standard that staff does not believe reaches 20 years. SCAPA says does not reach 20 years. And we've got two-year-old roads built with that standard that aren't. Do we know how thick this road is? This was a soil cement.
» And if I'm not mistaken, it was two inches. Soil cement. So we're basically saying soil doesn't matter anymore. So wait a minute, so this is soil cement, this isn't petroleum-based asphalt? Not this particular one. Then why don't we just do away with that? Because we're seeing this, this is just a good example. Soil cement should be done away with, but it can be put down appropriately. We've made moves to have a third-party inspector at a soil cement application, as opposed to the developer having their own quality assurance person at a soil cement application. Soil cement can be a really good product if it's done right, if it's done consistently, if you are taking quality assurance measurements at each space. But we're just in, we're getting painted into a corner.
» We have 300 miles of dirt road and our paved inventory is growing and we are outpacing our people, our funding and our ability, our skill set to keep up with roads in Kershaw County. I hear you loud and clear and I wanna help. But here's where I'm at. I don't wanna vote on asphalt if the problem's the soil cement. I wanna vote on a solution. Yes, and the solution is three and a half inches. As the administrator, that is my solution that I'm bringing to council. Three and a half inches and anywhere in Kershaw County and we get a better product. So would the soil cement product still be allowed? At three and a half inches. I think you make a good point, Mr. Brazel. Mr. Templer, how many mileage of paved roads do we have? Probably approaching 90 miles right now.
» Well, I don't wanna punish someone that uses a good pour of asphalt because it's just like concrete, you can have a bad pour. So if these people did a poor job, they need to be held accountable, but everybody that does it right doesn't need to suffer at the same time. I don't have an issue of upping the standard, but I have an issue with lumping it all into one category and saying this is the problem. I think we need to dive just a little bit deeper into this and maybe work on our language before we vote on this. I mean, I'm ready to vote on this now. Yeah, I'm ready to do it now. We still got third reading, right? I'm not ready for it now. Well, that's what the vote's for. Here's the thing. Well, that's right. That goes back to you. Mr. Brazel has the floor.
» I don't know that we're solving a problem because I think what we're looking at is a bad job. And agree, I'll be real honest. I've been over here Googling different things. There's even issues if asphalt is too thick and not properly compacted that it'll run out. The heat, I mean, the colder it is when you put it down, the hotter it is. We can't control the surface. What we can do is control the product of what we're holding the standard of in Kershaw County. And eventually it's gonna come down on the taxpayer. I was just getting you a little question, sorry. Yes, Mr. Brazel. It wasn't a question, it was a statement question. I was thinking, sorry. Go ahead. So if you pour the asphalt at four inches or three and a half inches and it's done improperly, you're gonna have ruts.
» You're gonna have a concrete truck come across it and it's gonna rut the actual asphalt if not compacted properly. Look, I called the American Civil Engineering Society to try to get answers on this. I hadn't gotten a clear answer yet. Are there roads in Kershaw County that are two inches? I agree that it needs to be fixed, but let's separate the two issues. I wanna talk about, I don't know a thing about this soil cement issue, but if it's different than asphalt, it needs to be treated differently. I don't wanna lump into the same thing. And if everybody wants to vote on it and pass it, that's fine, I'm not ready to do that tonight. Very well said, Mr. Brazel. I'm sorry, go ahead.
» I was just gonna say, in my eight years in administration, I've dealt with two things consistently and it's trash and dirt roads and paved roads or trash and roads. And looking at the poor quality of work we get and it's thin, we do our proof rolls, we go out, we look, but when there's so many projects going on, we don't have the ability to go and see whether this is two and three-eighths of an inch or this is three inches. And this is just a huge drain on staff. It's a huge drain on our resources to say if you're gonna run two and three-eighths of an inch up at the lake because the soil is much more dense up there, we just don't have that skill set on our staff. We don't know soil types. I don't employ geotechnical engineers.
» I employ public works employees that go out and patch potholes. So I'm just asking for a little relief and if we can just ensure that we get a quality product in Kershaw County for a road and it's three and a half inches stem to stern, we're gonna be able to focus on more important places with public works, namely the 300 miles of dirt road, the solid waste issues we have that we're underfunded there, I'm just trying to fix a problem here that I have seen demonstrated almost daily for eight years. And I think everyone sitting here wants a quality product too and we don't want roads to continue to deteriorate or not meet the 20-year standard.
» Where I'm at is is this really the issue and what this targets is our local builders, the Kershaw County residents that are developing some of these developments. Like I feel like they're being targeted in a way. So you are absolutely sure that going up 1.5 inches is gonna fix everything and the roads will last 20 years. That's where I don't, I'm getting a disconnect. Does this really solve the problem? I have seen countless roads fail just due to thin asphalt. It's soil cement, every one. Mr. Braswell just brought up a perfect example of why else they fail though. Yeah, it's poor application, it's a very, varied number of reasons, but I just don't think the Kershaw County taxpayers should be, whether you're a big builder or a small builder, should have to subsidize pavement thicknesses.
» I just, I'm a taxpayer too. No, they shouldn't. I don't understand. Well, I think it's a logical fallacy to say because roads fail for reasons other than this, this is a bad idea. This will make things better. Nothing makes anything perfect. And the person that we've hired to be the professional CEO of this county is telling us he needs this. And I have walked these roads in District Three. I know exactly where this road is and we're not punishing local developers. We are asking people to meet a very basic minimum standard and I don't think it's punitive. I think it's necessary and I'm gonna support the person we hired to come up with these decisions and give these advice to us. So again, I'm 100% in support of this and I'm ready to vote. Thank you, Mr. Schumacher. Mr.
» Templer, I certainly respect your expertise. I just represent the people of Kershaw County so I'm bringing their concerns. That's my job. Mr. Templer, would you repeat the people that recommend this, the actual geological people and the, I believe you named about three different people that recommend this being done? Well, SCAPA for one, DOT, and then I also have Dylan Windham from Michael Baker who is the engineering, represents the engineering firm for SCDOT and he can speak more to the intricacies of soil cement versus petroleum. And he did, I think, in the last meeting, I think he, was that the guy that got up and gave it? No, sir, that was, he was from SCAPA. I try to get somewhere from SCAPA but Dylan is as good as it gets.
» Any road paved in Kershaw County, he's here with CTC so if there's technical questions, I'd be glad to pull him up and see if he can help us sort this out. I'm chair. Yes, Mr. Tucker. Thank you. I think I've tried to talk about it five times. My apologies. No, no, no problem. So. You ain't behind on talking. I'm gonna find you some opposition so you can cool your pipe. It's too late, he's home free now. Mr. Tucker has the floor. You can't get rid of him now. See there. There he is. So I have to agree with my colleague here to my left, Mr. Shubate. Our administrator doesn't come to us for a whole lot. He's asking to put a tool in toolbox so he can better do his job. And we sit here and we reduce or we give more acreage to houses and try to slow down growth.
» All of us up here has done that and you talk about not taxing the existing people that's living here and paying the taxes. Well, this is a mechanism that does that as well. The new people that comes in here needs a standard to live up to and make sure that we're not taking the money that we need to be resurfacing roads that's been here 20 years and then surface roads that needs to be surface that were dirt roads. We're not using those resources to patch or even resurface a road that hasn't even made five years. That makes no sense of resources. And so I'm gonna trust in the administration and all of his reliable resources that he put here in this ordinance for us to review.
» And furthermore, I don't know how many of y'all did or didn't, I asked you last time, please talk to the CTC committee. You have a former resident engineer that sits on that committee that chairs that committee. A wealth of knowledge, a wealth of knowledge and darn good at what he does that can fill you in why this is necessary. I'm still not voting for it tonight. That's okay, I don't care how you vote. It's a progressive vote. I'm just saying, talk to other people other than just trying to understand who is doing this for a living and who has more expertise than any of us sitting up here. And they're definitely accessible. And that's why tonight, I'm gonna support this. One more time. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr.
» Tucker for bringing up the CTC because I did speak to someone at the CTC and there are a lot of different reasons why roads fail or why they're. So I just wanted to make sure that we did the proper research that this is actually gonna fix the problem because there are some two inch roads on compatible soil that do not look like this. So does it mean we don't have a problem? No, it's not just a thickness issue. And if I may just kind of interject one piece that is just a looming issue for us. Is stormwater. And so if these roads, you can have a vintage kind of two inch road made out of much more robust material but if it's not taking a watershed because it's in a higher area or it's in a maybe like a dead sand area or something like that and it drains different. No water is standing on it.
» It's properly drained from back when it was designed. You probably would get a little more time out of that but just what we're seeing now and into the areas that our development is being pushed, we are just experiencing an inordinate amount of stormwater issues in there. And so standing water, despite them being this, these subdivisions being designed, a vast majority of them are subpar when it comes to drainage. So there is an issue with standing water. And so thinner top layers, it's gonna start to alligator and do things like this much quicker. Thank you, Mr. Templer. What was this other product called that's not asphalt? Soil cement. Soil cement. Soil cement. Yes, and it is a petroleum. I'm still trying to understand what it is. Dylan. Okay, let's move on if we can.
» This is not gonna change my mind, so you can let him talk all night if you want to. Can you state your full name? I'd like to, I wanna know what the difference is. So my name is Dylan Andrew Windham. Bring the microphone a little closer to your, what's your last name? You're too tall. Dylan Windham. Dylan Windham, okay, and where are you from? I'm from Lexington. I'm sorry, what organization or company? I work as a consultant for roadway design reviews working for Kershaw County. Okay, thank you. So to help clarify the soil cement versus the asphalt. So my background is in transportation. I have a little bit of pavement experience, but not the in-depth technical to tell you your traffic loadings and everything. But soil cement is basically your base course.
» So when you think of asphalt, there's different layers that go into your pavement section. Soil cement is what is basically your base course. So it's not your actual riding surface. It's not what you see. So the three and a half inches of asphalt is basically what you would see that you would ride on. But the soil cement is something different. It's not something that, it's not a riding surface. It's what you basically put down above your subgrade that you then pave over with asphalt and then you ride on top of that. So what we're looking at in this photograph, he was described as soil cement. So that is the surface course. So that's what you would see literally on the surface. That is asphalt. Underneath that pavement is the soil cement. All right, so now I'm more confused.
» So how do we know what people are doing? What we're looking at here is actually asphalt. That is correct. So the soil cement is under the asphalt. That's correct. So that is the actual asphalt that we're looking at right there. And this would be two inches thick in total? So typical pavement section consists of multiple layers. I believe in this scenario, it was six inches of soil cement and then two inches of asphalt on top. Okay. Is that what this is? Particular road? Yes. Okay. So we're then increasing the asphalt by an inch and a half on this road. So the soil cement would always be under the asphalt and asphalt is always the top layer. Correct. You would not be seeing soil cement as what you would ride on. What your tires would actually be riding on. Okay.
» Any other questions for Dylan? Well, you don't necessarily have to use soil cement, do you? You just use a base layer of rock. That's correct. So as a little bit of background, DOT is actually not really, we solicited some feedback from them. Soil cement is not widely used anymore by the Department of Transportation. It's usually more of a crush and run, graded aggregate base course, or asphalt base, which is an asphalt course, but just a thicker layer. So like I said, there's multiple layers of what you consider your pavement section. So it could be asphalt, graded aggregate, or in this scenario, soil cement. So does DOT recommend soil cement? Is it a base layer? They would not. So historically they have had issues with soil cement in the past, but.
» If soil cement is a mixture similar to concrete because it has cement in it, is that right? It's similar. It's got a component. I mean, it has certain components of cement and then it's mixed with usually clay or whatever soil is out there on the site. So that gives it a harder subsurface, right? Correct. Would that cause the two inches of asphalt to crack easier than if it were just put on a typical base layer? Someone more on the technical side from an actual, from the pavement lab or a pavement engineer would be able to explain that. But I will say, historically speaking, we do have inspectors that have gone out and looked at these. And there are some scenarios where if the soil cement is not applied properly, then it could cause cracking.
» But there's also the issue with the weathering of the actual riding surface itself and just two inches of asphalt. I think we just need to get rid of soil cement in Kershaw County. I mean, to be fair, I don't wanna make a rash decision because I'm not an expert. And Danny has done a tremendous job. This has got nothing to do with your passion and your research. But like you said, you're over a lot of things. I'd like to find out more about soil cement and how it affects asphalt. I'm not opposed to voting in favor of three and a half inches of asphalt, but I'm more interested in finding out does soil cement need to be a part of any road in Kershaw County. And I'd like to incorporate that into what we're talking about.
» So in regards to the soil cement and the feedback we got from DOT about that, that was after we solicited feedback about a pavement section on DOT roads at which they had recommended an asphalt thickness comparable to what the scaffold representative from two weeks ago recommended as well for Kershaw County. And that feedback that we got was based on their experience with the county, working in the county with their roads in Kershaw and based on road classification and the amount of vehicles per day that would be expected to be traveled in the subdivisions that are being developed in the county. So is that a yes or a no to the fact that we need to have soil cement? I think that is, I would definitely recommend someone on the more technical side. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
» I need to learn more about this before I can vote on it or to vote to be a yes vote on it anyway. Dylan, are you familiar with the different soil types across our entire county? No, not exactly, which is why we were not the ones that made a decision on it, but we were the ones that requested feedback from the materials lab over at DOT. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chair, if there's no more questions, I'd like to call for the vote, please. Okay, all those in favor. Just a second. All those in favor of second reading of case 24-10 indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, Mr. Shoemake and Mr. Tucker, all those opposed. Mr. Jones, myself and Mr. Basel. Third reading will be on April 23rd. All right, item number 10, resolutions. Alpha is stricken, so we're up to bravo.
» Resolution for amendment of the section M of the personnel policies and procedures. Madam Chair, I have amendment. Okay. A resolution by Kershaw County Council to amend section M of the personnel policies and procedures of Kershaw County relating to the minimum employee probationary period required before an employee may accrue annual leave. You want a motion to approve it as amended or with an amendment? I have an amendment. We have a slight clerical error on exhibit one of the resolution under M. Wanted to amend that under eight hour work schedule, it should be 15 years and over to show a monthly hours accrued is 14 and annual accruement of 168. That should be an extra line item, if you will, under eight hour work schedule. Madam Chair, point of order. I'm trying to follow here.
» Are we doing the motion then the amendment? Mr. Cato, are you motioning to approve this with an amendment? With an amendment, yes, ma'am. Okay. I would second. And second by Mr. Shoemake. Okay. Into discussion. If you can repeat that. I think it's the eight hour work week, which is the second row of work schedules. So, Madam Chair, under exhibit one, under item M, annual leave, there was a slight clerical error where 15 year employees and over, that line was left out. It should have 15 year and over under eight hours work schedule, and it should say 14 under monthly hours and 168 annual. Okay. And any discussion? Is this, forgive me, I wasn't here. So maybe I missed it. Is this something that staff has asked for? Like, where's this? I mean, I just, I'm for it. I just want to know.
» Yeah, so let me, let's back up. I'm gonna read the entire thing. All right. Resolution by Kershaw County Council to amend section M of the personnel policies and procedures of Kershaw County relating to the minimum employee probationary period required before an employee may accrue annual leave. Whereas Kershaw County is authorized pursuant to South Carolina Code section four nine dash 30 to develop personnel policies and procedures for county employees. Whereas Kershaw County has adopted the personnel policies and procedures of Kershaw County. Whereas Kershaw County wishes to recruit and hire highly qualified candidates to fill county employment positions.
» Whereas Kershaw County believes that allowing new full-time employees to accrue annual leave on their first day of employment rather than being required to wait until the end of a probationary period will assist in attracting more highly qualified job applicants to the county. Therefore, be it resolved by Kershaw County Council that the personnel policies and procedures of Kershaw County are hereby amended as follows. Section N, annual leave is amended, set forth in exhibit one. And that's the, that is what Mr. Cato was just referring to, there was a, there was 15 years and over left out of one of the works. Why are we doing it in a resolution form? Why don't we just do amendments to the policy? Mr. DeBose? Clarification on requirement of the resolution to make this change.
» So I believe y'all would have to make some affirmative vote to approve any of these personnel policy changes. I've never noticed a do it in a resolution. Correct. I believe there have been. Whose idea was that? I believe there have been resolutions in the past, Mr. Jones, but your recollection on that's probably better than mine given your service up here. That said, you know, this amendment's not requiring of an ordinance, it is requiring of some positive vote. The resolution though does go into county records and memorializes the reasoning behind these amendments and is a record of council's approval of the amendment. I don't think it's necessary.
» I do think it's necessary to try, I don't mind how we do it, however council wants to, but I do think it is necessary when, last year when I first took office, Mr. Templer and I met about recruiting highly qualified candidates and to Kershaw County as employees and I asked him to come up with some solutions and some ideas of what would attract people to work at Kershaw County and this is one of the things that he came back with. So I'm definitely gonna support it and I did wanna tell you guys, so a new employee, they'll start earning PTO on day one, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. DeBose or Mr. Templer. If they need to use more leave than they have, they go in the hole. So they're not getting any additional leave, they're just allowed to accrue it immediately once they're an employee here.
» Madam Chair, I don't have a problem with what we're trying to do, I have a problem with, I just didn't understand why we did it in a resolution form. Just make your amendments to the issue at hand. We do need to vote on amending it on the policy. We could vote on amending it without a resolution. Is our personnel policy in an ordinance form? Sure it does, resolution absolutely cares. It does not, it does not, absolutely does not. A resolution is an abiding, if we vote on a resolution, a resolution absolutely has binding. So our personnel policy is not an ordinance. Right. It's just a policy. Well, we can change the policy without doing a resolution. Maybe, but a resolution does have binding.
» Like there's nothing procedurally wrong with this, even if it's one, once we haven't done before, a body can pass a resolution and that resolution has the full force of the body. Once this, if this resolution passes, Mr. Templer will update the personnel policy as we vote. So I'm okay with the form we're doing it. If it's overkill, I'm okay with that too. But I am thankful that we are thinking ahead to do something. A decent policy manual. Okay, thank you, Mr. Jones. Any other questions or comments on the policy change? We don't have a handout policy manual. How about we just get a decent policy manual instead of hitting and missing these issues with resolutions? I don't agree with that. I do think that's what Mr. Templer is attempting to do.
» I understand, but I just say I don't agree with the process we're using. I mean, I support the concept of what we're doing. I just don't support the process. Okay, thank you, Mr. Jones. You're welcome. All right, any other questions on this policy change? Okay, all those in favor of the resolution relating to the minimum employee probationary period and occurring annual leave, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Schumacher, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brazel. All right, Mr. Templer, attract some new hires with that change, please. All right, next resolution.
» This is for employee telecommuting, a resolution by Kershaw County Council to adopt a policy for employee telecommuting as part of the Kershaw County Human Resources Manual of Policies, HRMP, to be known as the HRMP policy. Whereas Kershaw County is authorized, pursuant to South Carolina Code 4-9-30 to develop personnel policies and procedures for county employees. Whereas Kershaw County has adopted the Kershaw County Human Resources Manual of Policies, HRMP. Whereas Kershaw County wishes to recruit, hire, and retain highly qualified candidates for county employment positions.
» Whereas Kershaw County believes that adopting a telecommuting policy which permits telecommuting options for certain employees will assist in both attracting more highly qualified job applicants to the county and retaining employees of the county. Now, therefore, be it resolved by Kershaw County Council that the telecommuting policy is hereby adopted as part of the Kershaw County Human Resources Manual of Policies, HRMP, as follows. And that will be adopted as Exhibit 1. Is there a motion at this time? Madam Chair, I make a motion that we approve. Okay, Mr. Tucker. I defer. Okay, Mr. Cato with the second. Mr. Tucker, any questions or comments on this? No, ma'am, let's get away. Wait a minute, wait a minute, question. Yes.
» Does this mean people get to stay home and work from home? I don't agree with that. Yes. Mr. Tumbler. Yeah, so what this allows is, because what we've had, and I'll use Tyler as my poster child for this, he commutes a long way. He is an invaluable piece to this organization as it relates to budget management. There are times where he does not come in and report in to work, and this is something we've been testing, but he is just as productive, if not more, at home. It's not gonna extend to everybody. Obviously, we can't. There are fail safes in here. So a department head, if they're gonna opt to do telecommuting, they're gonna come to, they're gonna identify that individual or individuals. It's not gonna affect the output of that department.
» It's actually meant to do just the opposite, is to increase productivity. This doesn't take the place of any kind of seat time in the office, so this wouldn't be anything where somebody would never come into this building because they are working remote. So typically, it's one day or two days a week or when specific circumstances arise. So, Mr. Templer, this would not be something that would be a week-long process or a monthly process. This would be a random thing. Typically random. It can be scheduled, again, for people that commute. We just don't pay enough for people to relocate to Kershaw County. We bring in a lot of talent from other counties. Things arise, certain circumstances arise. This is a recruiting tool.
» This allows me to bring in people because in this day and age, when I'm interviewing department heads, this is one of the first questions they ask is, they're telecommuting. We have skilled positions such as our engineers that can work from home. They can review plans. It's very specific as to who can, not everybody can. So it really boils down to skilled positions as in finance, engineering, the assessor's office. And we know this works because of 2020 when we shut down. We had a lot of people still turning and burning during the time when this building was shut down. We didn't lose a bit of work in the assessor's office because they were able to work remote. So there are certain factors that boil into this that are such as IT connectivity.
» We're not gonna just have someone's home computer tie into our networks. So it's not a cross-spectrum kind of solution, but it is a recruiting tool. So on the way of the recruiting, did he have the floor? Yes. So in the way of recruiting, I mean, this could be a recruiting tool for parents, so to speak, that if they had a child, had to stay home sick, instead of taking a sick day and not being at work at all, they could at least accomplish something during the workday from home. I mean, that'd be an example. Deputies do it too. They need to work at home too. When a lot of times- Mr. Jones, I think if you was in law enforcement, you know that's a little bit different, but that would be left up to the sheriff, because he's an elected official.
» So if he wanted his deputies to work from home, he could do that. If people can't come into work, they don't need to be hired. I am absolutely against this. This is something that would be a random thing. It wouldn't be something that would be done but not be random. Over and over. And you would be overseeing this. You and administration would be overseeing this. We oversee it. And if you just reference this policy, it's, there are certain points in here where there's reassessments, six months. And it's not just somebody that comes in and says, hey, I'm gonna work every Friday from home. It's not gonna work like that. This helps the single mom or the mom that has a, you know, school's closed but daycares don't or vice versa. This is just kind of getting in line with 2024.
» What, and this is also a code that many Fortune 100 and 500 companies really implemented during COVID. They realized that instead of having the overhead of having the facilities, they were allowing people to work from home. And if they were productive and able to be able to manage their time properly, they were actually more productive and the company, when turned, made more money. That's kind of where all this came from. It came from during COVID. Yeah, I think this is ridiculous. Mr. Jones. I think this is ridiculous. This is a very common tool and I'm glad that Kersar County's coming into the 21st century. Only in government. Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones, I wish I could say it's only in government.
» Well, listen, I can tell you our company's astounded because it's been abused. It's happening right at my job every day. And, Madam Chair, we do this on the cog. Santi Lynch's reason council of government. We have a planner who comes in when required. He's a very smart gentleman, holds a PhD from Clemson and he lives in the Clemson Greenville area. And I'm not impressed with cog at all. That's a bad illustration. Look here, buddy. I can't impress you. I'm tired of trying. So let me finish please. So I'm in full support. Once again, another tool the administrator's asking for. He's already told you and it's in here written where they're gonna do the assessments as it roll out.
» Danny, the only thing I would add to that is to make sure, I know what we do is make sure that everybody who is doing a remote work from home or wherever that they're up to date on their cyber training. So they can fully understand and that you guys just track it just as fine and clean as you possibly can and make sure the firewalls are in place that they need to have outside of this building. So that's the other than that. I'm with you. Hey, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Jones. I'm not voting for this. Okay, thank you. This is absolutely ridiculous. Mr. Templer, thank you for coming up with this policy. I think it does bring us into the times. Actually, in my job search, I'm only applying for remote jobs. So thank you.
» And also, it could also be for single dads, single parents in general. Anything else? Let's just build a daycare and put it here and there. Come on, guys, this is ridiculous. If you can't come to work. I said that because he said single moms, but there are single parents in general. Period, yeah, and I agree 100%. But here's what I do know. This administration, Mr. Jones, is not looking for folks like you and I. They're trying to attract a new generation. Well, you know, the public looks at folks like you and I. And this is what they need to do that because you take any young person that's wanting a job, it is all about being able to work remote and just as relaxed environment as possible. I think they all Google kids, but it's okay. They're productive. They get the job done.
» And that's what the bottom line is all added up to. I don't agree with that. No, I can talk down purple in the face. You're not gonna agree, but it's okay. It's progressive. Yes, Mr. Brazo has the floor. I would vote in against this. You said that. Mr. Brazo. Tell me when y'all done. I'm done. The thing that worries me is this. I can see where you may have somebody that you wanna bring in that lives in Greenville or something and bring them in for a project or whatever, but when society starts to see, well, he gets to do it, why don't I? It's gonna spread throughout the entire county. You're gonna have other employees go, I wanna work from home. People got spoiled during COVID.
» It was a necessary evil at the time, but I know, Grant, to your point, companies did do it and then they made them come back to work and it was like, oh, we're being tortured. We're having to go back to work. I have worked for 24 years and I've had to go to my job every day to get paid. So I'm gonna be quite frank, I'm against it. Your young generation. I think society has weakened and I think people need to get up and move and get out of the house. I think it's good for you mentally. I think it's good for you physically. Amen. So no offense, I think it could be further reaching than it's meant to be and that would be my reason for voting against it.
» And a lot of those companies still have that policy in place like Blue Cross Blue Shield, one of the largest companies in South Carolina, still have majority of their employees working from home instead of in office since COVID. And this is today because they've realized that it's more productive for them and actually better on revenue stream. So there's companies who still do it. I mean, it's not for everybody, but I'm glad. Blue Cross actually did it before COVID, didn't they? No, they actually implemented that policy right in the peak of COVID and then it progressed. They started doing it, the telehealth, telemedicine for insurance purposes. That was completely different.
» The employee basis was one of their big tools and the main push was during COVID and they now kept a lot of their people at home. So it's a new progressive policy, right? It doesn't work for everybody. I'm happy to vote yes to give our county the tool. So if I may just say, and I'm not here to change anyone's mind, I'm here to present what I would like to see implemented but this is not an affront on the 40 hour work week. I am not, I've been going to work all my life. I served in the military, deployed twice. I didn't get to do any of that remotely but this is gonna be one or two days a week, just one or two days a week as needed. I'm not sending anyone to Greenville for 40 hours a week and they're gonna just buzz in.
» This is gonna be a situational piece, a tool in that department heads toolbox and quite frankly, there may be a department that everybody qualifies to work remote but nobody does it because of the workload or just because of what's going on. I might not like the plan they have in place for it. So there's so many safety mechanisms in here that allows me to have the ultimate oversight to make sure that we're getting our job done, that it doesn't impact the output that is expected out of any of these offices or departments in this county. I just, I think it's good for business. I think it's pro-employee and I'm pro-employee. I'm gonna look out for my people. That's what they expect me. Well, I'm pro-employee but they get a paycheck, they get benefits, they come and apply for the job.
» We give them the job, they come to work. I'd be darned if I'm gonna support this. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. When constituents call Kershaw County and the phone is answered and the emails are answered, I personally don't care where the person is sitting. I want the constituent services to be able to maintain at a high level and I think they will. It doesn't matter where the person is. And quite frankly, that's a good point. This is gonna most apply to the deepest departments that are not constituent facing. This is gonna be the assessor's office where they're doing, if they're under reassessment, finance, crunching numbers, HR may do something like this. It's not gonna be widespread.
» There's just not that many opportunities to do it but where there are opportunities, there are some of our most skilled people. I've heard time and time again, everyone up there compliment Tyler on his ability and we were lucky to have him. But he needs to come to work. He needs to be able to come to work. He comes to work. His butt is in the seat five days a week. But yet you said he's an example of why we're doing this. But the ability for him, for us to retain those individuals. He can go to another company where he can work remote. Everybody's replaceable, guys, including us. That's all I have, Madame Jones. Thank you. All those in favor of this resolution for employee telecommuting indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr.
» Tucker, and those opposed? Mr. Jones and Mr. Brazel. And I'm gonna be watching the outcome of this. I really am, because this really upsets me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. All right, up to resolution. It's listed as delta. Yep. Maybe we should have done a policy instead of the resolutions, Mr. Jones. Compressed week schedule. That's exactly what I said. Did someone have a copy of it? Why are we doing this if you're not doing a policy manual? Resolution for compressed work schedules. A resolution by Kershaw County Council to adopt a policy permitting compressed work schedules for county employees as part of the Kershaw County Human Resources Manual of Policies. Mr. Jones, please do not be disruptive. To be known as HRMP Policy 1-2.
» Whereas Kershaw County is authorized pursuant to South Carolina Code Section 4-9-30 to develop personnel policies and procedures for county employees. Whereas Kershaw County has adopted the Kershaw County Human Resources Manual of Policies. Whereas Kershaw County wishes to recruit, hire, and retain highly qualified candidates for county employment positions. Whereas Kershaw County believes that adopting a policy permitting compressed work schedules for certain employees will assist in both attracting more highly qualified job applicants to the county and retaining employees of the county. Now therefore be it resolved by Kershaw County Council that the compressed work schedule policy is hereby adopted. Is there a motion pertaining to this policy? I would move to accept it. Second.
» Okay, Mr. Shoemake with the motion. Surprised. Mr. Tucker with the second, thank you. All right, Mr. Shoemake, any comments or questions for Mr. Templer? That makes sense to me. I have a couple. Yes, Mr. Tucker. So I just wanna make sure I'm reading this correct, Mr. Templer. When we talk about the compressed work week, so if I can get those hours in four days, is that what you're looking at? Yes. When you say that. You're correct, and it wouldn't be, it would be scheduled, broke up across the department. So if an employee got their work hours in Monday through Thursday, or Tuesday through Friday, they would have that ability to have that day off. Okay. And then the other one is your flex hour. So as long as it's in the same time period of payroll, yes, is what I'm understanding.
» So let's say I end up working a 35-hour week this week, next week I need to work 45 within the two-week pay period. Everything has to add up. Okay, I just wanna make sure I'm clear. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Templer, thank you. Again, on this one, we specifically talked about the four-day work week before. I want to let my colleagues know that no department will be closed an extra day of the week. That's not the way this works. It just allows different schedules or schedule flexibility. The National Guard's been doing this for years. So has DOT. I understand, Mr. Jones, but it's not gonna hurt Constituent Services. It's not gonna hurt any of our county services. You don't know that, you absolutely don't know that. If it does, Mr. Templer will not allow this.
» You'll be the first to get a call. I'll be the first to get a call. Thank you. Any other comments or concerns? You got a defibrillator? We might need one. Okay. This is bad for the county and I'm gonna stand up against it. Any other comments, concerns, or questions for Mr. Templer? But it's been that way for 17 years. Okay. All those in favor of resolution for compressed work schedules to be adopted as part of the Human Resources Manual of Policy indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and opposed. Mr. Jones and Mr. Brazel. All right, up to item number 11 on the agenda. New business. Executive session. We need to discuss negotiations of a purchase of real property. We do expect to vote coming out of executive session.
» Is there a motion to enter executive session? Like a motion, we enter executive session. Okay, Mr. Cato makes the motion. Tucker second. Any questions before we go in? Right, all those in favor of entering executive session indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel. We are now in executive session. Are we on, Chris? Is there a motion to come out of executive session? Make a motion to come out. Okay, Mr. Tucker with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cato. Any discussion on coming out? All right. All those in favor of coming out of executive session in a regular session indicate by raising your hand. The vote is unanimous. We are now back in regular session.
» County council did discuss with legal negotiations of real property in Kershaw County. We do need to take a vote on what was discussed. Mr. Tomlinson. Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion that we move to authorize the county administrator to enter into negotiations for potential purchase of real property and at the administrator's discretion to enter a contact for the purchase of the property, of the real property provided that the contract contains a clause that is not legally effective until a less ratified by affirmative majority of Kershaw County Council. Okay, Mr. Tomlinson with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. Any discussion or questions? Yes. Yes, Mr. Jones. This is some good stuff. Some good stuff. Appreciate it, Danny.
» I'm looking forward to seeing this. Sorry, Mr. Jones. I just said I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. I would like to state for the record and just for the public, we are being vague because it does include negotiations of a potential contract. So we don't wanna necessarily let any other potential entities involved, let them know what we're doing. All right, all those in favor of authorizing the administrator to enter negotiations of the purchase of a real property that will at a later date and time come back to this council for ratification of a contract, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. Right. Thank you. Item number 12. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Item number 12, appointments. Clean Community Commission. We have two at-large vacancies and one applicant.
» Madam Chair, do we need to wait after the third reading in order to make any appointments? Do we have any, Ms. Hanna, do you know if we have any vacancies without the change to our ordinance? Okay. Then yes. Thank you for bringing that up. Point of order. Yep. We do not have any vacancies at this time and we do have one applicant and we will wait until the final reading, the third reading of our ordinance update. Yep. That will be April 23rd. And just, I know we have two applicants. We have one already for Bethune for the position for Bethune. We have an applicant for that. Okay. Municipality. Cool. And that ordinance, yes. Thank you. Good stuff. We'll vote on that ordinance prior to appointments on our agenda so we could potentially appoint the people at the next meeting.
» If it gets approved. All right. Moving on, item 13, old business. First item is impact fees, authorization for the county administrator to move forward on developing an ordinance to institute impact fees. This was placed on the agenda by Councilman Shoemake. Mr. Shoemake, you have the floor. Yeah, so I'd like, we can discuss it after I move, but I would like to make a motion, or make a motion that we authorize the county administrator to move forward on developing an ordinance to institute impact fees to include impact fees to benefit solid waste. Okay. Motion for authorization of the county administrator as stated on the agenda, second by Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Shoemake.
» Yeah, so basically, obviously, to actually impose an impact fee, we have to go through the ordinance process, but there's some logistics that need to be done. We had an impact fee study come in, but there's a couple of updates that need to be tweaked and that'll take some time and some resources. And so I wanted to put this vote to authorize the county administrator to show whether or not we're supportive of this as a general concept. Obviously, the amount we can adjust once it comes back to us, but it would be an impact fee. And generally speaking, and we remember this from our briefing, it's an impact fee on new homes, new residential homes. So, well, not just the residential homes, new structures. So that's, I mean, that's the bad, but we had a whole big briefing on impact fees.
» So that's what it is. So this impact fee would affect anybody that builds a home in the county? I believe any structure, correct? It's not just residents. It's like any building permit, correct? Any new building permit. Correct, there's some limited exemptions for destruction by fire if you're not creating additional square footage and you're merely replacing a structure. But yes, new structures, broadly speaking, subject to a few just very minor exemptions. Like hurricanes, tornadoes, fire. If you didn't destroy it yourself, you're not gonna have to pay this impact fee to build back. More or less, correct. And well, Mr.
» DeBose, talking to the city of Camden, the city of Camden has it where, say if I bought a property, an old dilapidated house, I'm redoing the house, so I'm pretty much building the house to scratch and then building a house back in that same property since it's not a, you're not adding a new house to Kershaw County, you're buying a property, tearing down a house, building a residence, that could be an exemption. Underneath the code, correct? The exemptions are statutory, but yes, that could possibly be. That could potentially be an exemption. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we could put it on based upon new homes. And to, go ahead. Well, I was just saying to be clear, Mr. Thompson, my motion, I intentionally didn't get into the weeds because again, you're right, we could do that.
» Obviously, I wanna be clear for the public too. If a yay vote on this doesn't mean impact fees are here, what it does signal to the public though is that a majority of this council supports impact fees as a concept, and then we can actually get into the weeds of what they look like. What are we trying to accomplish with impact fees? Solid waste. So do you mean like, well, I'm gonna answer, I think I haven't answered your question if I don't, let me know. So the two things I think we're trying to accomplish is one is it's putting the burden, new people moving here create a burden on the system. The people who should pay for that burden should be the new people moving here. So solid waste is a good example where as more people move in, the Recycle Center's solid waste has a burden on it.
» So basically, it's putting the burden that we need to improve these services on those new people moving here. That's the main issue. That's the main thing that the mayor is gonna do. At one point in time, we talked about using it as a tool to slow down growth. It won't slow down growth. I think that's generally correct. I think, now let me rephrase now. I do think school impact fees can slow growth because they can be fairly astronomical. These are fairly low in the grand scheme of things. So Councilman Jones, I generally agree with you. They don't necessarily slow growth. I mean, I guess they might be to some small, small degree but I think the bigger issue and the reason they make sense is new growth does create a demand on services. Solid waste is a classic one.
» And all the people living here shouldn't bear equally. The people moving here should basically pay a higher premium because they're the ones creating the extra additional strain on those services. But wasn't something that's service-driven, you would want it to be repetitive, not just a one-time fee. I think what this does is it gives a developer leverage to make us feel good about what we're doing, letting them in here and build a bunch of houses. It doesn't make me feel good. It makes me feel slimy. I think impact fees are a key that unlocks a door to development and I'm against them for that reason. I think it's minimal. I don't think it's anything that's sustaining and I don't think at the end of the day it helps a darn thing. Spot on, Mr. Griswold.
» So I would just say, I'm not prodding this book when I said services. I was just speaking more kind of colloquially. But what I was referring to is infrastructure. The actually expanding and making the solid waste places better because impact fees cannot go to recurring revenue. They go to specific capital projects. I don't think that changes your opinion. I understand that. It doesn't change my opinion because I've been approached by developers that say, we'll pay an impact fee. We won't encourage y'all county. I'll pay an impact fee. And I said, you think that makes me feel good about track homes on a 400 acre farm? I don't disagree with that necessarily. But what I do disagree with you respectfully is I do not think that an impact fee encourages development.
» Nor, and I will see to your point that an impact fee at this level doesn't necessarily slow development. It's about burden shifting to me. Now again, if we're talking school impact fees, it can be a 10 grand hit. I think those have shown to slow growth, but we're not talking about that. I'd like to look at it more as a user fee. What it does is it allows the big developers to come in here. It makes us feel good about it or that's so they want us to feel good. And then it hurts the little man. It hurts the people that grew up here. It hurts the man that lives out in the country that wants to build a son a house. I'm 110% opposed to impact fees for those reasons. And they were confusing when they came and spoke to us.
» If somebody, if a large developer thinks they can come into Kershaw County and buy us with some little petty impact fee, they got another thing coming because I will stand up against it and I think it's complete and total BS. I'm with you 100%. It's great Southern Homes are already here. Munga Homes are already here. But it ain't here yet. They ain't here yet. They will be here in full force, but they hadn't even begin to target Kershaw County I'm just at Mr. Templer. Do we already have those developers here? You got 5% of what's coming. 5%. I don't think impacting, what y'all are trying to do is spend this all. This is a user fee. This is allowing for new permits. And that permit and that fee is in turn gonna be put on the house, right? We can call it.
» It's not gonna be put on the little developer is what you're trying to say. I'm talking about my son. I'm talking about my grandson. I'm not talking about a developer. I'm talking about my children. I'm talking about your kids. I have kids here too. But what it is is it's gonna take that user fee. It's not a tax. It's not anything. It's taking a user fee and it's allowing us to repurpose funds. There's more money out of the people's pockets into the government's hands. Amen on that. That's exactly right. Gentlemen, I'm gonna interject. This agenda item. So when they came to us about the impact fees, the consulting agency, there's a lot of work that staff has to put together. We have to do a capital improvement plan. We have to do a list. There's a lot of things that go into the ordinance.
» This specific item is just telling the administrator, yes, please start putting that stuff together so this body can decide if they wanna do it or not. So we're getting ahead of ourselves in my opinion. I will be supporting. I do want the administrator to bring us a impact fee package is what I'll call it in an ordinance form. And then at that time, I'll be deciding if it's the best thing for Kershaw County. This council has done a good job slowing down growth and I have supported that. And I will continue to support. This is not gonna slow down growth. This will not slow down growth. I agree. Let me finish. Everything Mr. Broussel said is true.
» But by the way, I'd rather see us focus on, especially when it comes to slowing down growth, one house per acre, one house per half acre, whatever. And we've done a good job of that together. We've done it. We need to move forward on that. But this is, you're exactly right, Mr. Broussel. I will not support this just based on what Mr. Broussel said. This is absolutely true. I would like the fee to be put on the newcomers and not the has-beeners. And that's why I would like, that's all I can say. But that's not what this does. I think we should call a vote. Well, that's not what this does. We agree to disagree on that. That exactly. Yeah. Wait a minute. My son's gonna pay for that fee. He's a has, he's been in Kershaw County his entire life.
» Yeah, but it's a new house, right? My kids are too. In 20 years. In it's land it's already bought and paid for. There's ways to, more money doesn't equal a solution. Never has, never will. More money, more problems. It helps with the strain on infrastructure. We need to move forward. Right, all those in favor of authorizing the county administrator to move forward and developing an ordinance to bring back to county council to institute impact fees or not institute impact fees with a capital project indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and those opposed? Mr. Brazel and Mr. Jones. Right, Mr. Timber, we look forward to seeing what staff comes up with on that. Just the heat of the discussion. All right.
» Next item is boat ramp plan selection placed on the agenda by Councilman Brazel. Mr. Brazel, you have the floor. Okay, Danny Templar, our wonderful administrator was gonna have the options available. So we had an option to vote on asphalt or no asphalt. I'd like to vote on, go ahead and asphalt the thing and let's do it right. So I'd just like to put it to a vote. I think according to my notes, we had an estimate, but it hadn't gone out to bid. So I'd like to vote to put it out to bid. Mr. Brazel, on the screen, is that the layout that you wanna make a motion on? Yes. Okay. I'll second. Can you state what your motion is? I, let's vote to have a bid for a conceptual layout two for the Kershaw County Veterans Park for a paved boat ramp. Okay. And Mr. Jones, I second. Okay. Okay, Mr.
» Brazel, you have the floor still. Well, we've talked about it. We've been talking about it for two years. So I think everybody knows what it entails. If anybody has any questions, we can surely discuss it. Mr. Jones. I do have a question you know I support the vote, but when we talk about, are we talking about cement or are we talking about what are we gonna, what is it gonna be? I mean, basically when the water rises, it's gonna cover, so we have to use- Asphalt. Okay. Will the asphalt up, will it be, will it hold up when the river rises? I think so. Okay. That was my only concern, but do I- Three and a half inches, it will. As long as we don't use soil, cement up underneath it. Two inches.
» If I may, I mean, that will be part of the spec is to understand that they are bidding to place a surface that will experience, you know, times underwater. Yes, a lot of time underwater. Right, I agree with that, yeah. Okay. It is the first thing that I've ever voted in favor of on Veterans Park. Okay, all those in favor of the motion to open up bidding to conceptual layout number two. That's all I wrote down, Mr. Brazel. Tell me the rest. I'm sorry. Conceptual layout number two for the boat ramp in Veterans Park in a paved setting. Okay, paved. Paved, yeah. All right, all those in favor of motion to open up bids for conceptual layout two, fully paved, indicate varies in your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Schuettmeier. Is that- Oh yeah, sorry, sorry. Tucker and Mr.
» Brazel. Sorry, my arm's tired. And then Mr. Temple, I think he's done a great job on this. I appreciate it. I appreciate getting the two. This looks really good. Thank you. And keep us- And I thank my colleagues, even though I disagreed on the last few subjects that you all still support. We still love you. Thank you. Yeah, well plus, I mean, you've done, I mean, you've done, Ramari, I mean, this has been- A long time. You've been like a carbon bone, and I mean that in a complimentary way. Like it's, this has been something a long time coming that's had about five roadblocks that you've been able to navigate. So, I mean, you should feel very proud of this because you've been the kind of architect of this. I'm also very proud of our house member, Ben Connell. He really worked hard as well.
» Yeah, he did. Making sure we had the money from the state. And that was big and very important. Mr. Templer, when can we expect bids to start coming in? What's the timeframe? So with this, I will let Alliance know to move forward with this plan. There were some permitting, but I'm not 100% sure when the bid will come in because there's a bid process. Okay. And that can be up to 30 days. Just keep us posted. You will engage with them within the next week? I will send them an email in the morning. My man, thank you. My man, that's what you said. All right, item number 14, council member briefs. Mr. Jones went first last meeting. So Mr. Brazel, you're first. I don't have a lot for tonight. I wanna thank all of you guys for working with me on the boat ramp.
» That's been something, definitely has been a passion. I wanna thank, or congratulate rather, everybody that was here tonight for the proclamations. I always enjoy that. And also to the folks expressing their concerns about rapid growth in our county, I do too see the problems that can come from too much growth too quickly. So while we do support home building, and I mean home building, we do wanna handle everything with kid gloves. I want you guys to know that we are listening. We do hear you, and we will be addressing these things properly as they come before us. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brazel. Mr. Tucker. I thought I was gonna say no report, but I do have a question. Ms. Lauren, do we have anything pending for the 11th? All right, so what we're gonna do, decision's made.
» We're gonna send out a notification that we will be counseling the finance committee's April 11th meeting. Because I think we've taken care of all of our business thus far. We had a meeting, we had two scheduled last week. We made one, finished up everything. So we should be on track to have the budget and what do you call it? Title only for the next meeting. That concludes my report, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Mr. Schumacher. Yeah, so just wanted to say a couple things. Sorry I missed the last meeting. I think most of you know this, but I was asked to chair a panel that is picking a short list of someone who's gonna be our new federal magistrate judge in Greenville.
» Our state only has eight federal magistrate judges and I've been working pretty exhaustively the last couple of weeks, whittling down a big list of candidates with a panel that we interviewed our last group today and we're submitting a list to the judges. So I'll be back in the normal swing of things. So I've been, other than my drive from Greenville and sleeping, I've been in meetings for the last 16 and a half hours. So I'm looking forward to going home. I wanna echo Councilman Brazile's comments about growth. We're obviously not gonna agree on everything up here on all these issues, but we have a fundamental agreement. I want you folks are talking about growth. I do wanna say something because I've always been very direct and honest about these growth issues.
» South Carolina law says that if zoning allows something and someone applies for it and it's legal, they get to do it. It's our job to figure out ways to curb that zoning. But because of the way the law is written, it's not written for speed. So when someone comes and says, I wanna do a development here and legally submits an application, it isn't always possible for us to say that can't happen. Now, maybe the next one can be addressed with some of these issues you're talking about and we're working on that. It takes time. It's a year long process from here to rewrite as the LDR. So to Councilman Brazile's point, we do hear you and we are working on it and if you have ideas, let us know because we've been very amenable to those. But I just appreciate everyone up here.
» I think it's one issue that I think has unanimous support up here. Maybe not every facet of every decision, but unanimous support up here is this idea that we cannot become nothing against Lexington. But that is not the vision that any of us have, I think, in Kershaw County. So I wanna thank you all for your hard work on that. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Cato. I wasn't gonna say anything, but I just wanna say thank you, Derek. You explained that very well and to all the people that spoke tonight, I'm with you 100%, this equestrian overlay. I think that's very important to this county. That's the heritage of this county and the history of this county and I think that that's something we really need to take seriously and look into. But other than that, I have no other report, Madam Chair.
» Thank you, Mr. Cato. Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to thank Cindy Titus and Jessica Coulter in the audience here. Cindy, thank you for recognizing me as the voice for District 5 and I look forward. We've all been up here and you could see it tonight. We're all passionate about growth. We all sit up here and we, I mean, I plan to live here for a long, long time. I know I'm getting gray, but I'm still pretty young. I don't know why I'm getting so prematurely gray, but no, I really appreciate it and a lot of council and everyone up here is really taking a role to try to be responsible about how we look for the vision of Kershaw County in 20, 30 years. And it takes each one of you to work with us to get that together. And I'm always available by phone, by email.
» I'd rather meet for coffee, to be honest. I love meeting people in person. So if you need anything, just feel free to get with me anytime. So thank you. I will. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Duns. Just a couple of things. I want to congratulate Russell Brazo and Derek Shoemake. You got your elections with no opposition. That's very strong, very strong. I hope it had to happen twice. Three times I had heavy opposition, but I'm glad to work, I'm proud to work with y'all. I don't agree with you on everything, but bottom line is we do have the same mission when it comes to slowing down growth in this county. And that's something that I hope we can approach very quickly, but also make sure we do it legally so we don't get a lash back and get sued.
» But I'm concerned with what these folks said tonight, with these housing developments going on right next to them. And we just need to make sure that we got everything in place and we need to get really tough on our sides of our lots. We just need to do it. But I hope that there was some notes taken on what they said tonight so we can kind of make sure we keep those in the forefront of our minds and maybe come back at the next meeting ready to do something. Okay. Now, having said that, I know it's hard for you guys to sit up here sometimes and I know it's hard on y'all when y'all know I'm right, when y'all vote the other way, but I forgive y'all for that. I enjoy working with you, don't agree with you on everything, but that's all I have, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Jones.
» All right, a couple things. Mr. Jones, you embarrassed me at the beginning of the meeting. Thank you, I guess. I never know what you're up to over there, but I do sincerely appreciate it. I assume it was involved. I'm gonna be kind of bold. So before the last meeting, I had this idea to rezone the CTC property to one acre lots. And after talking to planning and zoning, that would minimize the amount of houses that could be built there from the 300-ish down to about half of that. That was my bold idea. I got a lot of different feedback.
» I do regret not putting it on the agenda, even if it wouldn't have passed, because that's the kind of decisions and things that need to be put on the agenda right now, because there's too many cans that have been kicked down the road from prior councils or just prior entities that we are now faced with, and we talk about it a lot. I am not worried about getting sued, Mr. Jones. If we need to make a tough decision or a bold decision for CTC or any other property that is gonna be exactly in line with the comprehensive plan and the heritage of this community and what the people want, then I think we need to do it. That's why we're sitting here. Unfortunately, the developer did submit a plan, so I can bring that up now, but it's not gonna change anything after the submission, like Mr.
» Shoemake said, his current zoning will stick. So I do regret that decision. I just wanna tell the folks out there that came to speak, and Ms. Titus and Ms. Hennack-Colter are still here. Thanks for sticking with us. But those are the types of things I'm just gonna start putting on the agenda, because we've got to do it. And if it's too bold or someone wants to sue us, I mean, those are the things we have to do. That's why we sit here. So we've got to start getting creative. I didn't say violate the law. I wanted to rezone the property. I understand, but we have to follow the law. That's all I'm saying. Applying for rezoning is not violating the law.
» Madam Chair, let me just say this about, if we don't work with planning and zoning, there's certain home rule statutes that we have to abide by, and we can still get the job done. I had a bold idea to rezone CTC to minimize the amount of homes that could build in Kershaw County, and the feedback was that that was too bold. What I'm telling the public and the people that came to speak tonight, I am just gonna have to start doing bold things. I'm not worried about the backlash from one person when it is clearly evident that this entire community does not wanna see the equine industry be diminished or our historic value be diminished or our comprehensive plan be completely ignored. I will not break a law. That will be my boundary, of course.
» And I support everything you just said, Madam Chair. Everything you just said, I'm just gonna follow the law. Moving on, submission to finance. I would like the finance committee to look into the Association of Counties Conference and the amount that we spend on that, and if there's a better use for that money. So the courses that are offered at that conference, it is once again in a more expensive area of South Carolina, and the courses offered there are also offered in October in Columbia. So if we are going for an educational value, I'd like us to do it in Columbia. If there is another value for council members, I would just like the finance committee to look into that, because it's very expensive.
» I in no way wanna inhibit staff from going if they feel they need to, but elected officials, I went last year and I don't know that the amount of money is worth the value that I personally got there. So if you'll please look into that and how much it costs and how much it's gonna cost moving forward. If we're gonna do that, I'd ask that we look into other council expenditures as well. Yes, absolutely. And have a holistic look. Yeah, and that's all I have. Mr. Templer. Just a few things. A couple updates, Madam Chair, members of council. The Woodward Park continues to develop there. The last update I gave you was that they were scheduled for, I'm sorry, the rec commission was scheduled for a meeting that's been rescheduled till tomorrow.
» That's where the committee will go over and make some recommendations for any changes to the rendering. Material costs are starting to rise and as the result of the traffic study indicated that there were some DeKalb Street improvements that needed to be made. So we will, after the rec committee looks at this, staff will look into this as well and try to look for any kind of cost savings, opportunities to keep this project within the confines of what council agreed to, the original budget. So I'll keep you all updated on that. Alliance is still reviewing the proposal for Bethune in Westville. I look to have that back, maybe a cost opinion, perhaps by our next council meeting. So I'll certainly keep you all up to snuff on that. Boat ramp, we talked about that tonight. Mr.
» Brazel, I just took advantage of my iPhone and sent that email while we were sitting here. So why not? There's just some things to go along with that because we're gonna be putting another pier out there. We'll have some Army Corps permitting. I don't see that as a big issue, but it's not just as simple as putting a dock out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of federal regulations, but we will get going on that and I will look to push that along as much as I possibly can. Wastewater treatment continues to go along on schedule. I'm happy about that because our funding is time-sensitive. We're still gonna shoot for our 6-1-26 completion of construction. So this week we had submission for construction permits and stormwater permits.
» So talked to the consultant today, the engineers rather, Davis and Floyd, and everything is at this point holding on schedule. So I think that was, yes. And I appreciate Council's willingness to listen to my new ideas or just something different. I know I get a little, sometimes a little heated, but that's just my passion for my position here. I truly believe in what I do for this county and for staff and I appreciate all the work that y'all put in behind the scenes. Y'all call me a lot. We were working on a lot of stuff outside of this meeting and I just, I appreciate what y'all do. I appreciate what y'all allow me to do as the administrator, so that's all I have. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Did Larry Doby get mowed? Yes, it did. Okay, thank you. Mr. DeBose.
» I have no briefing outside of item number 17, which will be very short. Okay. So we are up to item number 17, legal briefing on an economic development matter and no vote coming out. Is there a motion, thank you, Mr. Tucker. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Shumake. All those in favor of entering executive session, indicate by raising your hand the vote is unanimous. We're in executive session. Is there a motion to come out of executive session? Motion to come out of executive session. Okay, Mr. Tucker and Mr. Tomlinson with second. Any discussion? Okay. Council met in executive session to go over an economic development matter. No vote will be taken. Anyone who's in favor of coming out of executive session? Right, vote is unanimous. Up to item number 18, adjournment.
» Is there a motion to adjourn? Second. Okay, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Cato with a second. Is there a discussion? Stay here if you do. Okay, all those in favor of adjourning tonight's meeting, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Basel? He's gonna stay. Vote is unanimous, we're adjourned. Hey, sorry I wasn't here for that.
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