Full meeting transcript - March 26, 2024

» test test mr tucker can you hear me yes i can okay we have a couple more minutes we just wanted to test the connection thank you you're welcome thank you good evening kershaw county citizens that are here with us in person and watching online this is the march 26 regularly scheduled county council meeting and i call this meeting to order first agenda item tonight is our invocation this will be delivered by pastor rosalyn watson hi miss watson thank you for being here rosalyn watson pastor of house of prayer ministry in the dusty bend area let us pray father god we come to you because of the people of kershaw county and everything in this county belongs to you father god we need good leaders to come from you lord this nation need leaders with discerning hearts and wise minds we come to you t

» oday asking you to give us wise leaders that will lead this county in the right direction remove wrong people that are corrupt and living against your word from influential positions let our leaders be people who honor your holy name for it is only from you that they will get true wisdom it is in the mighty name of our lord and our savior that we believe and pray amen amen thank you ma'am please stand for the pledge of allegiance thank you and mr tucker are you on the line yes madam chair i am and you have to give me just a few seconds because i got you muted um to come off but i am online okay thank you um miss hannah let the record show that mr tucker is online with us mr shoemake will be late he is working in greenville today so if he joins us it will be late all right up to item number

» four adoption of tonight's agenda are there any motions pertaining to a night's tonight's agenda yes madam chair i'd like to make a motion um to adopt tonight's agenda with two amendments okay motion to adopt with two amendments what are the amendments mr tomlinson um i move that we amend the agenda to add an additional executive session item uh receipt of attorney client privilege legal briefing regarding land development regulations pursuant to sc code 30-4-70 a2 and also do i need can i include the next one in my motion yes also i would like to make a motion that we strike and remove 8d ordinance first reading of case 2407 okay motion to approve the agenda with two amendments adding executive session charlie under item 12 and striking 8 delta is there a second i'll second that motion oka

» y second by mr cato any discussion yes madam chair yes mr tucker you have to split those it takes a two-thirds vote on one and the simple majority on the other say again mr tucker you need to split those amendments because one is deleting and one is adding takes a two-thirds majority vote on one and then the other is the simple majority please okay thank you mr thomason can you split those yes i will separate motions i will redo my motions um motion number one i move to amend the agenda um with a motion to add the executive session c receipt of legal advice covered under attorney client privilege okay is there a second to that motion i'll second that okay second by mr cato any discussion on adding an executive session item tonight okay all those in favor of the addition to 12 charlie adding

» executive session indicate by raising your hand okay mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazil mr tucker how do you vote on adding executive session yeah okay yes madam chair all right please add charlie to item number 12 madam chair my next amendment okay um i move to amend the agenda tonight to strike and remove ordinance 8d uh first reading of case 2407 from the agenda okay motion to strike eight delta is there a second i'll second that motion okay second by mr cato into discussion um i do have an email from the owner of the property and he is wishing to withdraw his rezoning case so that's why we were striking this item any questions or discussion on that strike yes yes it was your property correct yes it's um an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of kershaw county to rezon

» e 23.4 acres owned by largosy limited performance llc co-owned by george delk located on the east side of ross road with the addresses of 1512 ross road and 132 golden pine trail in elgin south carolina from r15 low density residential district to r6 high density residential district he has requested we remove that um rezoning application if i could please i'd like to say that i spoke with mr delk as well as i think some other council members and he's a good guy he's a he's a straight up straight up guy and he understood that the community was not in favor of this so he withdrew it so i i thank him for that and i thank all the folks that are here too that are concerned about the direction we're going with uh growth in the county thank you for so much yes thank you mr jones all right any oth

» er discussion okay all right all those in favor of striking eight delta from tonight's agenda indicate by raising your hand mr brazil myself mr cato mr tomlinson mr jones and mr tucker how do you vote yes madam chair okay all right that amendment passes please strike eight delta and now to adoption of the rest of the agenda any discussion okay all those in favor of adopting the agenda as amended indicate by raising your hand mr brazil myself mr cato mr tomlinson mr jones and mr tucker how do you vote on adoption of the agenda vote yes madam chair okay all right this is our new agenda up to number five public comments mr debose can you hand me that sign in sheet please so that while that's coming up here if you are here tonight to speak on that case 2407 when i get your name if you'd still l

» ike to speak absolutely please come to the podium um if you no longer wish to i certainly don't want to waste anyone's time but we will not be voting on that rezoning tonight um the rezoning application has been withdrawn yes we won't be voting on it period yeah we won't be voting on it period unless the applicant applies for another rezoning of the property correct all right the first speaker tonight is kenneth parker and mr tucker and counsel there are 18 speakers signed up for county or for public comments tonight you you read my mind thank you hi kenneth hey how y'all doing well since it's not going can we leave yes sir you absolutely you can stay or leave it's up to you thank you okay thank you mr parker the next speaker is karen boone hi karen how are you good i want to say thank you

» and i'm so happy that that was withdrawn but i do have a question yes if he does um apply for another rezoning will it it'll have to be posted again i'm assuming so we'll be able to see that in our area could we give the attorney to give a legal update on that yes um for everyone that's here so karen we don't usually respond during public comments but this is kind of a extenuating circumstance so mr debose if you'll give us all an update correct if uh if a rezoning is applied for a subsequent rezoning it'll go through the entire process that this one did go to planning commission same notices would occur in the paper same physical postings of the property same notices to neighboring property owners yes all right thank y'all so much yes ma'am the next speaker is anthony fullerton hi anthony

» good evening madam chairman council members i'd like to make a brief a comment and reference to this rezoning withdrawal we appreciate a the withdrawal but one of the concerns that i have is this even though he's withdrawing this proposal without any permission or any permits he's already came along representatives of whoever he hired filled in all the drainage ditches in front of the property backing water up into my property which violates the federal riparian right laws i went to the highway department to have them reopen the ditches the highway department chief engineer informed them to cease and desist and re-establish the ditches they also filled in the detention pond that was holding water because that place does flood out since then they've dumped over 3 000 tons of backfill dirt in

» there once again without a permit and when they back when they informed me when i informed them they were backing up water on my property they informed me that they owned the property i said no that's that them ditches are in the highway right away and you need a permit to do anything in the highway right away that went past them so i went to that chief engineer in park street he told him he cease and desist and re-establish the ditches but even though with no permit he's come in and dumped over 3 000 tons of dirt on that property and the reason i know it's over 3 000 first of all i worked as a civil engineer for 40 years there's over 150 almost 200 loads of dirt in there each load is 20 tons five loads 100 tons 50 loads a thousand tons so if you got 300 in there you're talking hundreds hun

» dreds of thousands of tons of backfill so if we're not going to do nothing why are we backfilling in this property and why don't we have any permits i mean every other contractor in in america has to buy the permits so that the county can the county and appropriate regulations are being met so it seems like these people aren't looking for a permission they think it's easier to operate and hope for forgiveness and so i think that still needs to be addressed just because they said we're not going to continue on with this project that they've addressed in reference to the high density housing why are we putting 3 000 tons of dirt out there and where is the permit for it all permits need to be requested through the county they need to be posted during the can the duration of the construction it

» 's never been posted in fact there's zoning signs that were installed they by county law in reference to having them posted for 30 days the people in ross road just found out about this project within the past several days because the signs were taken down on ross road we went hunting my neighbor went hunting my son went hunting on the right of way to see where the sign is to see if it was knocked down it's not grass cutting season so i mean there ain't no tractors knocking nothing where is the signs that makes me very suspect considering the previous dealings i've had with these people and it still concerns me even though they don't they want to withdraw the request for zoning why are we investing over a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of dirt in the approach into that place and w

» e're doing nothing so it seems to me that there is construction going on no grading permits on two different occasions they should have had a grading permit you never had any permits from the highway to fill in the ditches to do work on the highway right away that's why i'm suspect of it just because you see we're not going to do it what comes next and that's my concern and i appreciate your time and i appreciate the the decline to pursue this too that's obvious because my property is the longest contiguous property to this property another thing that concerns me where they have all this dirt that they're dumping in there they're dumping construction trash in there mr fullerton i'm so sorry but you are out of time i have your address as 1540 ross road is that correct okay and i also have yo

» ur phone number okay mr templar can you please take a note to call him tomorrow and get some of his concerns addressed with the permits and the his ditches yes the administrator will call you yes sir council members thank you for your time the next speaker is john britain hi john first i want to say thank you for allowing us to speak and thank you uh for taking this off your agenda and brother jimmy good to see you thank you for the those remarks and i hope well they did it thank you and so i met i i wanted to ask one question did john did each of you get my email that i sent you on friday the 22nd uh i had my daughter to do it and she sent an email for me with what i wanted to say to each and every one of you council members and so if you didn't check the email and see what i had to say i

» just wanted to let you know that i'm a long time resident in that area 50 years and so we really want to keep that as a residential area for single family dwellings and i hope that we can see it and see it grow in that area thank you all so much god bless you thank you sir all right the next speaker is jenny benning hi jenny did i say your last name right okay how do you say it banning okay and rotate that microphone down so that we can catch your audio thank you okay um i just want to say thank you for the decision and wanted everybody to know my property is at the end of ross road at highway one if anybody knows anything about that area it's terrible the traffic is terrible i have wrecks at least once a week you can check to see if that's true because it's terrible nobody pays attention c

» oming over the hill into elgin because everybody's turning on to ross road now because of what is already there so i just want to say thank you because we don't need any more traffic um i can't cut my grass in my ditch therefore i can't have grass in my ditch i have to kill it with poison and they put a i guess you call it a caution sign at the there's a sign above but it's still where everybody stops in the area that hasn't seemed to do any good um they've been on the had the news come out there and ask us so it it's it's problem already and ross road is very short and it's split by a railroad tracks that makes it really that much shorter we don't need any more traffic there so thank you everyone and thank you for your time thank you jenny thank you all right the next speaker is marilyn ka

» ne hi marilyn thank you for taking these rezoning off the petition i'm glad that the owner did miss kane can you raise the microphone a little so we can hear you better yep thank you thank you for not for us not having to vote on this were you not having to vote on this we are glad that the committee listened to the neighborhood and the community and as the previous community members stated there is a problem at highway one and ross road every time i travel highway one coming home i literally turn on my turn signal at the furniture store so that i can get the traffic or the person following behind me to back off it's been too many traffic accidents on that highway do we need a stop maybe a traffic light maybe is it going to cause more traffic problem yes along with ross and watson road ever

» y day where the me and my husband is walking out for exercise we watch the traffic go up and down that highway i would imagine they're going like 70 miles per hour speed you can't even be out there safe you have to literally get all the way off the road because you're afraid you're going to get hit so we literally have to walk in the community and stay off in the grass it's a concern i have voiced it to the kershaw police department on our walks and they specifically stated to me it's we're not in the city limits so they can't come down on our end adding more traffic and rezoning to our r6 it just brings more traffic i'm afraid of crime coming to the area by our community having a swimming pool if no swimming pool if they decide to put apartments if he requests a rezoning again that just me

» ans kids coming over to our area more problems and that's what we're trying to avoid thank you for your time thank you miss kane right the next speaker is madam chair could you ask mr templar because you're dealing with a federal road a state road to maybe follow up and i wrote that down i was going to get through public comments just to see if there were some other traffic concerns that people had and then and i apologize didn't mean to jump ahead mr templar go ahead and make a note um so you and i get on that tomorrow request a cdot take a look at ross road and highway one please the next speaker is andrew beck thank you mr jones pass yes absolutely thank you andrew the next speaker is rinald johnson ridgenald i'm sorry reggie okay hi reggie so you'll have to move the microphone up oh yea

» h yeah it's a lot better right yes sir yeah we just moved to the area fairly recently my wife is from south carolina and her brothers they went to the citadel and one went to university south carolina and um our older brother went to the citadel he has macular degeneration lost his eyesight so my wife wanted us to move so i went out to lowe's i bought a for sale sign and put it for a house so we came here just to you know help family and do what's right however after building our house the owners of the lot which is next door to us and the builder corroborated together to blatantly circumvent the permitting laws by even prior to the permit being approved from kershaw county they actually demolished the topography of the lot next door to us which is about it's elevated so it's about 20 20 yo

» u know about 20 feet above us right and they actually signed indicating that they will get the correct permits from dhack however they blatantly refused to do that as well as a result of that our property it's infected a good part of the community however our pot our property during mo through most of that building process you call you're talking about months has become their retention basin there are a couple times that i felt we would have to go out and buy a boat to leave our property that's how bad it was right what i'm trying to express is that for the most part the accountability for folks who do that based on what could actually happen end to end is not even close to what it should be and i know the the engineers are diligently working on this dhackers pursuing this matter as best as

» they possibly can or as fast as they possibly can however there should be some type of notification process in place that notifies everyone who's involved especially the financial institutions because from what i understand and what i've researched and i've called my insurance professional that once a building has been built without the correct permitting the insurance company has the right to cancel the policy with an effective date as of the start date of that policy and once they've done that you can probably never get insurance again which creates another problem when you talk about it end to end if you have individuals who go on that property or in that property or whether they're a welcome individual or invited individual or an uninvited guest which would be you know postal workers ca

» rriers people like that meter readers and they get hurt and they want to make a claim against their property and the insurance company finds out oh the correct permit thing was not in place they do not have to honor the claim and they can just cancel out the policy that's why it should go from end to end there should be some type of process in place to make sure that everyone who could be impacted is notified and the banks wouldn't be too happy about that either they would call they would call that uh possibly something like you know begin with a f ends with a d i used to be a vice president jp morgan chase before you know left there i was there for 23 years but just understanding what's took place it just it just doesn't make good sense to me that there isn't more teeth in you know at the

» county level to hold these folks accountable thank you for letting me speak yes sir are you finished okay i just wanted to make sure you're finished i didn't want to cut you off yeah thank you mr johnson madam chair could you well i wanted to make sure we have your address 832 hunter hill road is that correct that's correct okay okay and we have your mobile number um mr templar i see him writing something will you write that will you add that one to the list please do some research on that and then let council know what you find out thank you thank you mr johnson madam chair yes sir i think there's some folks that don't realize how the public speaking works they're waiting for us to say something if you could briefly yes absolutely so um public comment is a time for council to receive input

» it's not a dialogue we don't answer questions or respond um so if you see me um sitting here kind of stoic that's why it's not a dialogue between council it's just a time for us to receive information we don't tolerate inappropriate language or um inappropriate comments towards council members or any citizen in this county do you want me to read the rules the entire book okay we usually do that so my apologies all right public comment guidelines public comments is an opportunity for members of the public to share information with council it's not a time for debate or questions for council to answer it's a time for council to receive input and it is not a time for council response in short public comments will kind of council will listen to public comment but not comment thank you mr jones a

» ll right the next speaker is bill kissler hi bill is that how you say your last name kissler kissler okay that's right well um what i just heard they said they dropped everything and we're not going for r6 so that's good news but what i did not hear i guess y'all could send it to me on my mail it to me or call me or whatever it is that you can do since you can't answer the question is how long before he could possibly or anybody could possibly reapply to do this that's just my one question that's just a concern i'd like to know because uh like it was said earlier somebody said they didn't even see the posting i never saw a posting on ross road i did see a posting on watson street so that was just a concern i'd like to know and like you said you can't answer questions so but if you could get

» that back to me i would like to know yes sir thank you mr kissler so i wrote both those questions down and someone and if it's not one of us i'll have the administrator get back to you thank you thank you and madam chair to end the public speaking i would certainly support if want to get some clarification on a couple of the questions for them tonight okay but you you would have to do that okay thank you thank you all right the next speaker is carol okay i think it's um buett hi carol barnett my apologies how are you from reggie okay we have similar um miss barnett can you put the microphone just rotate it down so it's closer we can pick up your audio thank you um i live across the street from reggie so mine is sort of along the same line same problem with the same builder uh my statement i

» s to the best of my recollect collection august 21st 2023 i filed a formal complaint with the county concerning the problem of erosion onto my property from 823 hunter hill road after repeated attempts over a three-week period to get both the owner as well as randy bach and christine bach to do something about the problem of erosion not only did they ignore the problem they were belligerent on august 29th 23 2023 a stop work order was issued on 823 hunter hill road despite the stop work order eight windows were installed the work order was lifted even though there was no protection put in place on the back half of my property in terms of the erosion not even a silt fence it has been seven months since my first complaint the back half of my property is still suffering the consequences of ero

» sion the most recent stop work order was put in place friday march 22nd and on sunday march 24th the workers arrived around 8 a.m and left around well left exactly at 6 41 p.m this means they were working at the property approximately 10 consecutive hours despite the stop work order some of it was on the outside of the property which they were certainly encouraged to be working on and a good bit of that time was inside the property the erosion has gone down as far as 841 hunter hill road which is three doors down from 823 hunter hill road at the current time there are no consequences that are enforced if a stop work order is violated i am requesting that the council put consequences in place that are strong enough to support the stop work order i'm also asking that the council recognize ste

» ven staley appropriately he has stood by me throughout this tedious process within the limits of his job and i am very grateful for his support i would very much like to see some teeth put behind stop work orders at the present time they mean nothing and the builder knows that so the johnstons as well as myself have been having to deal with this for quite some time so thank you for listening thank you miss barnett all right mr tembler add that i think it's the same property but we need to um get resolution on this tomorrow we're already working okay thank thank you today and point of order madam chair with yes with mr guns it point of order with individual names point of order with individual names being mentioned per prior rules if we want to change the rules i'll be glad to change rules b

» ut as rules state we're not mr jones is referring to the speaker calling individual we can't and i didn't want to interrupt because i wanted to hear what she had to say um okay she spoke very well but offensive and inappropriate comments will not be tolerated if a group would like to speak we request that a spokesperson be selected public comment is a time to discuss issues public comment is limited to five minutes maximum per speaker public comments to councils and agenda items shall continue uninterrupted and be live streamed by audio and video until public comments agenda item is finished or concluded so i don't think the speaker violated our rules okay thank you madam chair yes sir make sure that that people can call our names too i want to i want to make sure that if if i do allow it y

» es okay very good um not in an inappropriate way though the next speaker is tom webb the third hi tom yes absolutely okay miss chrashonda torres is going to approach the podium and mr tom webb the third i'm going to put you in chrashonda's spot yes thank you hi miss torres no problem good evening council good to see you again uh thank you so much for what you're doing for the community with uh withdrawing that uh application so i'm going to be brief as always um i have some information to share with you and to share with kershaw county um first sorry i have to bring it up okay so the public is invited including council members to attend a six-week workshop which will provide attendees with a practical common sense understanding of how the constitution was intended to limit government and no

» t the citizens this class is called the constitution is the solution we hold this on thursdays beginning april 11th 2024 at 7 30 p.m and we meet at american patriot coffee shout out to councilman brazil for his support and always providing a place for us to provide educational information to the community second point madam chair um i won't be able to stay to get this answered and i know you can't answer the question so i'm going to make the assumption that since councilman cato and councilman shoemake put this on the agenda regarding the adding to at-large membership positions for the kershaw county clean community commission that i should just reach out to them if i would like to volunteer or apply for those positions because i don't see any paperwork on the wall to be able to put my info

» rmation down so i know you can't answer i mean i know i wish you could blink once for yes twice for no but um i'll just reach out to them via um email and that'll be my assumption that i just need to reach out to them to find out more information yes ma'am and we look forward to seeing you at the constitution is the solution class and thank you for your time thank you miss torres all right the next speaker is lynn canto tom webb tom webb met him um so mr webb is in crescendo torres's spot the next person that signed up is lynn canto okay miss canto please come to the podium i already switched him on my sheet so how are you my name is lynn canto i live in kershaw county and i've lived here for 30 years and i'm involved in the horse community and i attended a planning meeting on monday of las

» t week i think i've been to so many meetings i can't remember which one's which um and during that planning meeting they presented an overlay for the airport which i thought was really interesting and a great idea i like the airport my brother used to take flying lessons as a kid woodward field has two jets 60 piston aircraft and one helicopter that's a total of 63 types of planes i'm here to talk to you about the number of horses that are in kershaw county and the impact it has on kershaw county and the impact that the camden training center has on kershaw county it's historic one as i've spoken to you before but i want to explain to you that kershaw county needs the equine overlay as much as the airport right now at the as far as flat race horses there are 25 to 70 through donna frayer's

» barn woodens have 28 contos have eight kingsley steeplechase has 23 dalton has 18 valentine valentine has 12 gomina has 12 voucher has seven hendrix has seven white has six gillam has had four cutteth has has four watts two elliot has one edwards has one ruck has one that means between 158 to 203 horses just in training now not all with our breads are in training you have the stallions are for breeding you have foals you have yearlings that come in but my reason for being here is stuart grant i don't know if we're allowed to mention names so we'll say the developer of the cam and training center um said there were no horses and these are just race horses i come from the background of show horses i've done trails i've done western i showed for usc and hunt seat and western so i know how many

» horses are in kershaw county i know there are at least 1500 thoroughbreds in some fashion or form i know in my neighborhood right now just my neighborhood trail winds in foxwood there's 16 farms with 75 horses at red fox road 20 farms with at least 100 horses what i'm trying to say is if you develop allow him to develop the training center which is not you but the community there's no going back it will change the image of camden and we compete with tryon we compete with aiken if they know that this is allowed to happen it changes the equine community for us so why am i talking to you because the property one of the properties is still in the county and i need you to understand the significance of this decision i'm recommending an equine overlay for camden and kershaw county no annexation o

» f the camden training center and no housing development that the facility should remain some type of equine related activity connecting springdale by bridle path camden needs to develop a horse district based on equine cultural promotion an equine activities committee must be organized to address development equine activities and education should be available through central carolina campus and agriculture willard's technical center and a moratorium on subdivisions needs to be put in place because there's too much development going on i'm all for developing but at a reasonable pace you see i work in the schools and canton elementary sees elementary is almost at capacity which would force rezoning to jackson and pine tree which would force the district to have to purchase 25 acres to build a

» nd build a 35 to 40 million dollar school they can't afford to build another new school right now because they have to build a new school in the elgin and lugov area which require a bond referendum and lugov and elgin would have to have that first so my point of being here is to the powers that be i encourage i beg that we not allow the camden training center to be developed into 350 houses for now as he says to 800 houses later because we can't handle the traffic we need further study for traffic for schools for public safety i highly recommend this and i bet there's quite a few people in the back here that agree with me miss kanto thank you your time is thank you miss kanto the next speaker is ted brunson hi ted be very short and quick which i know would be a surprise to most people behin

» d me you can read the whole thing for five minutes if you want to well i'm not an auctioneer but anyway um i'm going to dovetail off of what miss kanto said um and also let you know that i just left the city uh meeting just a few minutes ago and uh quite surprised but quite pleased uh jeffrey graham has come forward and said that he would like to do some sort of joint city and county uh committee uh to possibly pull two from you know various resources uh two from the equine industry to look at studying you know the camden training center which has been the impetus of a lot of my efforts but also knowing what we have out at maverin hills i know that y'all had heard me talk about the impact fee that we had up in the fort mill area that it brought a ton of money into the city and into the coun

» ty to and i'll steal one from mr roy i think the only thing i ever agreed with him about when he said you know the been here's don't need to have to pay for the come here's so the people that come here need to pay for their fair share and so um instituting a higher impact fee uh would would solve a lot of problems as far as the schools are will light the tax load on all the other people uh that are here right now but i was very excited to hear that jeffrey is is going to reach out to y'all which is a very southern term thank you but i was going to reach out to y'all and and and come forward with that uh i think that's exactly what we've needed and and a lot of people um you know that that i've been in contact with or you know really want to see that happen and and for the life of me i could

» n't understand why it didn't so anyway wanted to let y'all know that and again hopefully he'll be reaching out to y'all real soon um gee and i don't have anything else to say and i've got three minutes left consider yourself lucky thank you thank you mr brunson the next speaker is tammy livingston hi tammy so the case that i was going to speak on has been withdrawn however i do want to encourage county council to look at some traffic concerns the highway one issue has already been mentioned however on watson street which is one of the roads that this property borders on because i work from home and i see my office is there and i have a full view of watson street every day as i'm working i see the foot traffic and the vehicle traffic my concern is the safety of the walkers we do not we do no

» t have sidewalks um and the vehicular traffic has increased tremendously over the last few years and because of the foot traffic i'm very concerned about the safety of the walkers we just had a death on white pond road because an older lady tried to cross and was hit by a vehicle we have foot traffic on watson street that includes families with children with no sidewalks we also have military personnel who are carrying rucksacks we call them ruckers and they're trying to get in there exercise with their rucksacks and then we have individuals some of them are in high school and are walking to and from the store or they're getting off a bus so i'm very concerned with foot traffic additional development and the impacts to safety in that area regardless of how we further develop that area i thi

» nk some additional studies need to be done on the traffic and the safety in that area thank you thank you mr livingston the next speaker is charles says job you'll pass can you please tell me how to say your last name shatty shatty mr shatty i apologize for that okay and now we are up to tom webb the third looks like to me if you could just uh stop improving the sewer system or expanding the sewer system that would have a great effect on the uh these uh housing developments and too many houses but uh how are you going to feed them if things go bad things could really go bad they've been bad before been a long time people forget but if we get into a war emp social unrest and the food quits coming how are you going to feed these people we had been on would have been on starvation diet before

» they came in it's going to be really bad but what i wanted to really speak about is the flower pot law your new litter ordinance all of y'all on county council i can count as friends and all the people out in the great boondocks of kershaw county they are my kind of people and i must look out for them they live in the great expanses between camden casset bethune pisgah liberty hill the east and west side of the river and lake down to boykin and over to elgin's and lugov's backwoods in other words out in the country these people live out in the country these are some of the dearest people in the world and they only want to be let alone and not be regulated out of existence would some of them have marched off to war and never come back would they ever do it again perhaps not if american style

» liberty is whittled down to nothing the whittling is happening everywhere even in kershaw county and that brings me to the flower pot law your new litter ordinance i know some of y'all don't like to read but if you're going to lead you have to read with a very critical eye for what's in an ordinance and what it really says and what its intentions are so if you connect the dots in your new litter law it explains it right there in its own words that uh flower pots are outlawed they're outlawed you can't have a flower pot on your private property you read the new litter ordinance carefully you can see it outlaws crockery on private property way out in the boondocks crockery is an earthenware pot a flower pot your new litter ordinance is among other things a flower pot law so i'm turning mine i

» n to avoid a 250 dollar fine i can't have this anymore the old litter law signed by governor mcmaster was kind of uh good to private property your new ordinance is not you've all heard the uh the words the punishment should fit the crime mcmaster's law does that 25 for a lesser infraction up to a thousand for a greater infraction your litter ordinance 250 dollar fine fits all breaks the eighth amendment in the bill of rights and is unconstitutional the bill of rights the constitution it's not it's not just something that it's kind of the guidelines it is the supreme law of the land it is the supreme law of the land so i'm turning in my flower pot it's uh it is a taking in the fifth amendment requires i'll be paid for it but um i like y'all so i'm not going to acquire any payment from y'all

» i'm just turning in my flower pot to you just this is now your flower pot to worry over how you're going to avoid 250 dollar fine i'm letting go of it that's the end of that thank you mr webb all right this concludes public comments for this evening evening thank you to everyone that spoke and signed up and gave council input all right up to item number six public presentations we have one public presentation tonight it is mr dean durham um i am so happy to welcome him to the microphone my brother in arms former deputy commandant of the drill sergeant school at fort jackson thank you for your service dean and welcome thank you madam chair thank you can i say one thing about yes absolutely this man's out trying to help vets he's going to get into that with fisher house and other issues and h

» e's the real deal but he's just not talk this man is action thank you so much for what you do for our vets and your service and your friendship cool thank you once again madam chair uh the fisher house we talk about because because it can make a true mr durham can you extend that microphone so it's a little closer there you go thank you all right cool because you know the support when these folks are going through unforeseeable medical conditions and they need to stay within the fisher house what is the fisher house the fisher house is basically similar to a ronald mcdonald house we refer to it as a ronald mcdonald house on steroids right and what it does is is it provides at no cost to the families during these trying times right uh free of charge because we know that there's different typ

» e of organizations that have been out there taking advantage of those loved ones during these trying times and that's just not okay for those that have made the true and ultimate sacrifice for this great nation zachabee and elizabeth fisher identified the needs back in the 1990s right now we are at 71 fisher houses the latest we have two in the state of south carolina one in charleston and the latest one here in columbia south carolina it is located on the campus of doran va this fisher house is unique because it's both a private and a public relationship with the department of veterans affairs and we would like to also extend out an invitation to the council board where we get you all the tour over there um so that you can truly see how these donations taxpayer dollars were not a part of t

» his but donations we fell a little bit short on our capital campaign but nevertheless the fisher foundation saw the need particular since we have four jackson one of the largest training installations in the world here it's also designed for those active duty service members that get injured in training unforeseeable illnesses and their loved ones and they need to come in and support them the fisher house itself is 15 000 square feet we got 16 beautiful suites there once again this is at no cost to the family to include the mills we have outdoor patio living rooms libraries the fisher house overall is a cost savings to family members that are going to be occupying for the mere fact that don't have to pay the fees out there in the civilian sector we did some calculations we know it's right b

» etween eight hundred thousand a million dollars cost savings a year once again ladies and gentlemen city council madam chair we now have that fisher house here in columbia south carolina how can you all help spread the word it's veterans families that are in need one of the criterias you have to be outside a 50 mile radius from the dorm va the other way is donations but most importantly we have the food train it's a meal calendar have your organization sign up let's really make sure that we wrap our arms around those that are in needs that are in need because once again there will be a time when we will be in need thank you very much madam chair jimmy city council members thank you mr durham all right yeah thank you so don't go anywhere it might be with some questions yes yes um thank you f

» or being here tonight this is near and dear to my heart and all of council i think i can speak for each of them can you tell me just briefly the process so a veteran will be being there treated at dorm va for and is it an extended period of time yeah so so what happens madam chair say hypothetically speaking we get a veteran over that needs uh it's coming out of the anderson or rock hill area and needs some type of surgical procedures going to require that veteran to stay in that fisher house or to stay somewhere right um not the veteran itself the veteran be admitted into a medical facility right while they get treatment and at the same time we want to have their loved ones in close proximity to them so normally the social social workers get involved to make sure that they fit the criteria

» to actually be granted permission to stay within the fisher house okay and so their loved ones will move into the fisher house while they're undergoing their surgery or procedure until they're done okay and the meal train a meal calendar that is to feed the families while they're there okay and that's something kershaw county citizens can sign up for and get involved we will love it awesome gentlemen any questions comments i'd like to make a comment i think it's a wonderful um wonderful facility and a vision for what what you're doing for veterans um so many are forgotten and and and looked over and um they they fight a battle that the civilians don't fight they bring things home with them and we know that it's physical and mental this is a very well put together i had no idea that there we

» re this many of these you said it was 71 in the state 71 worldwide and we have one in germany as well we've got total 71 and the fisher foundation has identified their next three locations well i i'm sure we have information on this here in the county office is that right we have information on the fisher house here in in our department we we got it we we have it now good i'd like to make sure that we have it available for everyone locally and um anyone that might need the service and anyone that might be interested in donating to the calls thank you for presenting very nice thank you thank you thank you mr brazil yes mr tucker thank you i don't know if mr norman can hear me or not mr durham yes he can hear you um mr yeah mr dean i don't know why i said mr norman mr dean i just want to say

» thanks again for the presentation and sorry i um wasn't able to get up with him earlier before today my question for him though is what's the uh extended stay like um say you have a loved one that's a veteran and you're from out of town the 50 mile radius um what's the max can they stay while they're being uh while the loved one is being treated mr durham he can't hear you unless you're in the microphone yeah so right now we're looking at it's a three-week process but what's good to social workers will be the ultimate deciding factor uh based off their uh communication with the physicians is there a maximum no no okay no max mr tucker depends on the social worker and the physician and the treatment okay i just wanted to clear that up okay thanks again and i appreciate this presentation than

» k you yes thank you mr durham do you are y'all working on any future houses in south carolina you keep walking away from the mic you might just want to say no ma'am not at this time um and you and i had spoke about the dorn va employee appreciation day can you remind us all when that is yeah let me that's going to be sorry to put you on the spot you put me on the spot ma'am no problem i love it um i think it's may 17th at the dorn va and what we'd like to do ma'am is uh we like to tell those that are providing services and care to the our veterans that have served we want to tell them thank you and it's okay and you know to tell people thank you and that we truly appreciate the sacrifice that they made as well because sometimes it can be quite trying and in saying that we have identified ou

» r employee appreciation date at dorn va on the 17th of may 17th of may okay so that's another way we can get involved here in kershaw county and show our appreciation to everyone working with the veterans are there dorn va employees working at the fisher house or is it completely private one we have two one full-time uh house manager candace uh campler and then we have one assistant manager yes okay okay well i love the private public partnership there too so okay i don't have any more questions i promise anybody else this man lives eats and breathes this mission yes that's what's so good about you know what were you how many years did you serve uh 28 years you've got a vietnam vet right behind you watching sir but we think and i i was drafted doing that where i didn't go to war i was a cle

» rk typist i got i had to go learn how to type 21 words on typewriter but i did myself i did my service and i'm so proud that i was able to serve and uh i'm so proud when i see our vietnam vets especially come in here with uh their hats on and thank you so much again dean and i'll be in touch and i won't help in any way i can personally as well i look forward to it and thank you thank you yes thank you mr derm and thank you for your service if we can give him another round of applause for being here tonight all right item number seven approval of minutes so we have three to approve tonight we'll start with the first one our retreat from thursday february 1st these minutes are a little delayed there were some additions and some corrections that needed to happen so thank you miss parlor as alw

» ays for getting these ready for us is there a motion pertaining to the thursday february 1st this is the first day of the special called meeting for budget retreat madam chair i will be refraining from this since i was absent okay all right motion to approve these minutes um i'll make a motion to approve the thursday february 1st budget retreat special call meeting is there a second second okay second by mr brazel and mr tucker are you trying to come through i was but uh you got it then bravo got it okay thank you all right any discussion okay all those in favor of approving the thursday february first budget retreat special called meeting minutes indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr cato myself mr brazel and mr tucker how do you vote oh mr tucker you were yes but thursday february 1st

» well i've sustained if i'm absent okay yes i was the first day yeah all right and sustains mr tomlinson and mr tucker all right we'll get those on the website and filed next is saturday february 3rd um this was the second day of the special called meeting budget workshop retreat madam chair will be abstaining again okay all right motion to approve these minutes madam chair i'll make a motion we approve the minutes february 3rd okay mr cato with the motion is there a second second second by mr brazel any comments concerns concerns or amendments okay and mr jones you are also absent on february 3rd i was gonna say that okay at the appropriate time okay all right all those in favor of approving the february 3rd minute meetings indicate by raising your hand mr cato myself mr brazel mr tucker an

» d let director share that i abstain i'll vote yes okay and with mr jones and mr tomlinson abstaining okay we'll get those filed and on the website next our last our first meeting in march tuesday march 12th regularly scheduled county council meeting is there a motion at this time madam chair i'm making motion we approve march 12th meeting minutes okay mr tomlinson with the motion is there a second thank you okay second mr tucker all right any updates amendments or changes concerns with these minutes okay all those in favor of approving the tuesday march 12th meeting minutes indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazel and mr tucker how do you vote oh yes madam okay all right up to item number eight ordinances first ordinance this evening is a first reading of

» an ordinance of the kershaw county council to amend the membership provisions for the kershaw county clean community commission by adding two at-large membership positions this was placed on the agenda by councilman cato and councilman shoemake is there a motion pertaining to this ordinance madam chair i make a motion we approve this or not this ordinance to add two members to the clean commission okay mr cato with the motion and mr tomlinson with this mr tomlinson with the second mr kato you have the floor for discussion so after some discussion with chairwoman wolf who who chairs the clean commission um it came to our attention that bethune town the town of bethune uh did not have a representative on the clean commission um so as it stands now they were supposed to be um each district had

» a representative and in each um municipality in the county had a representative um somehow or another over time that has has got out of sorts and bethune is lacking one of their representatives so after speaking with with the chairwoman and and others um it's it's my recommendation that we up the um commission to 11 um clean commission can always use extra help we have people that are willing to serve as as you heard tonight i know bethune has a a person in mind for their representative and she's willing to serve so i think it would be a great help to clean commission if we add these two two members and uh this is one of those commissions that can always use extra help without causing any extra issues if that makes any sense so that's that's my recommendation tonight thank you mr kato mr to

» mlinson i would just like to piggyback off of what mr kato said um the clean commission does outstanding work across the county um everybody could always use a little bit extra hand especially when you're picking up all the trash that we like to talk about on the side of the roads uh in kershaw county um appreciate all they do so just to clarify all this is doing is adding two at-large positions we currently have nine correct mr debose um we currently have nine this is adding two more so we will have 11 positions on the clean commission um if you would like to volunteer for that you can go on the app online and get an application fill out the application online which will be submitted to miss hannah and then put on the thing so um we'd love to have volunteers um and i'm assuming after we ge

» t through third reading it'll be coming up so that's all i have thank you mr tomlinson anything else madam chair yes mr tucker i just want to uh remind my colleagues to be cognate of um i'm in support for the two additional uh at-large members but uh we want to make sure that we cover as much territory as possible in the future only placing board members because we don't want the board to get too big because then it becomes a matter of being able to be functional and have a quorum and all that good stuff so it's fyi right um thank you mr tucker so yes i'm absolutely in support thank you for doing this this will have each of the municipalities involvement in it um the only thing that i want to do with you mr cato for second reading in section 2444 it says the six members will be nominated by

» each council member per single member district and then two members shall be at large by any nominated council member i would like the chair to be included in that single member as part of the six so actually change it to seven just to give whoever's in the chair an opportunity to nominate someone but from their seat as well the only the only thing problem that i see with that um is that if you once you have you have you have three c let me make sure i got my math right so if you have six and then you have three municipalities would be nine and then that adds you two at large so each minute once you have six members six districts then you would have three municipalities that would give you um it would it would it would it would take up three more seats and then you would have two at large s

» eats so the two at large seats could be nominated by anyone including the chair well i think the chair should get one of that large because yeah that's all i'm saying the chair should be able to each member of county council gets a nomination and then there's just one at large by anybody just split it seven and one instead of six and two but yeah i'm definitely going to support it it's just maybe something we can work on okay we'll just change our second reading put it in there it's the right thing to do madam chair yes mr tucker so if i follow you correct you just say and appoint one of those at large seats to the chair yes yes just one of those right where you where you have i think that's fair enough i think that's fair the chairwoman has an appointment like we all do okay yeah okay i me

» an we're still in this amendment now yeah um would you i mean i'm happy to make a motion okay i'll make a motion to amend okay i'll make a motion to amend that we add one of those positions are given is given to the chairperson of the county council um just as each single member each district has a representative so does the chairperson okay thank you mr so amendment and second by mr tomlinson um section two dash four four four mr debose you can help me but we would change that six to seven and that two to a one okay okay any discussion on that change it was just no oversight let's we need to vote and go on okay um all those in favor of the amendment striking six to seven striking two to make it a one indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazil mr tucker how

» do you vote on the amendment i vote yes on the amendment okay yes to the amendment and back to the motion on first reading any other discussion okay all those in favor of this first reading of these ordinance of this ordinance as amended indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazil and mr tucker how do you vote yeah okay thank you that passes first reading thank you gentlemen next case third reading for case 24-05 i will make a motion that we approve third reading of case 24-05 okay motion to approve by mr tomlinson is there a second second second by mr tucker and this is kershaw county planning and zoning commission request for text amendment by kershaw county in ordinance to amend the kershaw county south carolina unified code of zoning and land development

» regulations section 3 1.3 table 3-4 to provide greater clarity to the develop to the distinction and maximum allowed residential dwelling densities between single family residential development and multi-family apartment development the public hearing was march 12th and this will be the third and final reading any discussion i just like to say thank you to the planning commission and chair chairwoman fiona martin she's doing a fantastic job she is she's phenomenal they all are they all are and all this is doing is just clarifying um just to clean up the existing ordinance no real changes to it yes and mr shoe makes not here but i want to thank him for his work on this so all those in favor of the third reading of case 24-5 updating section 3 1.3 indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tom

» linson mr kato myself mr brazil mr tucker how do you vote i vote yes okay mr tucker is yay all right charlie first reading case 24-06 an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of kershaw county to rezone approximately 4.9 acres of property tms 348 0000120 and 085 owned by joe and cindy smith and located on the north side of mill creek trace with addresses of 116 and 120 mill creek trace elgin south carolina from r15 low density residential district to rd2 rural resource district is there a motion on this ordinance i'll make a motion okay mr brazil motion to adopt yes i'll second okay second by mr tomlinson and into discussion uh mr brazil if it's okay to yield to mr dubose so he can give us yes of course um an update on this okay so madam chair um this uh rezoning proposal uh was forwar

» ded to you by the planning commission with a unanimous approval um there are two parcels totaling 4.9 acres um one of the parcels is vacant the other is occupied by the um applicant the thrust of this amendment is that the applicant would like to place a double wide manufactured home on the address for one of the um their sons um of course conditional zoning is not allowed in south carolina so y'all would need to consider all the potential allowed uses within that rd2 district um curiously directly across the road the zoning districts will allow for a double wide manufactured home and in the vicinity of this property there are several uh mobile homes on other properties that either pre-existed the prohibition on double wads or or um single wide um themselves one of the concerns that the pla

» nning commission was whether the applicant would be able to further develop this property or subdivide it um perhaps even um institute like a mobile home type park uh none of those possibilities exist due to limited road frontage of the property um and that appeared to satisfy the uh citizens that came to speak at um the public hearing in front of uh planning commission um miss martin the chair just remarked that um you know a double wide is not dissimilar from a single wide mobile home and the fact that there is this uh geographic dividing line of the road where one use is allowed and one is not um to her spoke that uh the new comp plan and new zldr might need to uh consider more overlap and allowed uses among districts um in any event uh that's kind of the high level summary if y'all have

» any further questions i'm i'm happy to answer them okay thank you mr brasil uh no further questions about the use of the property um are there different underpinning requirements this may be a little bit on left field for a double wide versus a single wide are they pretty similar i'd have to let uh mr adams roskowski uh the uh planning director speak to that mr templar can we have planning and zoning director approach the podium okay can i say something while he's coming up uh mr brasil has the floor if he yields one second go ahead jim thank you sir i just like to say i think this is a great thing you know this is this is the kind of stuff we want to see is when we work with the citizens and their properties and to see that the plan commission is you know is doing that and it's coming to u

» s in a positive way so i just want to say i appreciate that i'd be happy to address your question uh yes double wides must be either uh brick curtain wall or a type of like hardy plank uh cement fiber type siding and you can do a vinyl siding on a single wide yes any specific reason why that is i had a um i had a fella ask me the reason why and while we're on the subject i just thought i'd ask you why why for vinyl yeah why that why the why the difference for a double wide versus a single wide well uh we see a lot more double wides actually become real property uh they retire the title whereas single wide mobile homes tend to be more literally mobile uh they they move from park to park or from rented lot to rented lot so the the actual use of a single wide versus a double wide is is certain

» ly different and so the vinyl the vinyl skirting allows that in a single wide to be um you know less less cost prohibited to be able to move it is that typical for double wides to to have that the more expensive underpinning and brick and hardy plank is that typical in other counties or is that something just specific to kershaw county no you see that quite often because again uh double wide manufactured homes in south carolina can be retired the title can be retired and it can be taxed just like a site built home single wides cannot correct okay mr brazil thank you yes sir this some years back before i was on county council i think that this was enacted by the previous council and i never agreed with it well i mean i mean i just don't i didn't then that was 20 years ago and i don't now but

» but it is the law it adds a pretty substantial cost yes and i appreciate your comments on it mr brazil and that's something we're in the rewrite okay to if if that's council's wish and stay right there mr tucker yes ma'am it was done some years ago and the purpose behind it is because we didn't want to become a mobile home part there was a lot of mobile homes being moved in single wives at that time and of course you know the double wives and the marginal stuff have more value so it was um we we wanted to dress them up to give them more value and we wanted to deter as many single wives at that time as we possibly could um so that's why those uh ordinates were in place i don't agree with it thank you mr tucker okay all right any questions for planning and zoning director or mr dubose thank y

» ou joy um i absolutely have explanation okay yes sir um no problem allowing this rezone is the property owner here tonight can you approach the podium please um and i just want to confirm you all rezoned another portion of your property already to do the same thing correct we did okay we have a son that we already rezoned for okay beside us already and then this one will be beside us okay and thank you for being here tonight um any questions for the property owner from council uh phoebe have a right to do it okay i would just like to say um sorry it takes so long to get this done it's it takes a little bit too long really to have have it done but thanks for your patience all right thank you and i'll just ask council as we do our rewrite let's take this into consideration um it does seem a l

» ittle silly to me that right across the street um those homeowners can do this and um these owners have to apply for rezoning to do the exact same thing so madam chair yes mr dubose that was a slight misstatement earlier i do apologize um it's not a permitted use here the matter i was thinking of and again i apologize because there are two matters 24 08 correct okay that's the one with the property across the street that would allow it okay thank you for the clarification i still think they should be allowed to do it so um all those in favor of this first reading of case 24 0 6 indicate by raising your hand mr brazel myself mr cato mr tomlinson and mr jones mr tucker how do you vote i vote yes okay mr tucker votes yes and that will be on the next agenda for second reading thank you for bein

» g here mr and mrs smith next case is echo first reading of case 24 0 8 very similar situation so this will be a rezoning request of 6.3 acres of property owned by andrew collins located on the west side of smear to road with an address of 1147 smear to road elgin south carolina from mrd1 rural resource district to rd2 rural resource district and correct me if i'm wrong mr bose for the same reason to build yes ma'am for a wide home not allowed in the current district okay wide here only allows for double wide across the street um allows for both is my understanding okay is there a motion to approve this first reading on case 24 0 8 i'll make a motion to okay mr brazel with the motion and is there a second i'll second okay second by mr cato and into discussion mr brazel you have the floor uh

» i'll yield to mr debose i just want to make sure that we're clear on the facts of the case and then we can vote okay mr debose if you'll give us the update on this one yeah um basically i'll recycle my prior um discussion for the prior case since i conflated the two similar issue though um again current zoning will not allow the manufactured house that the applicant wants the place on the property um this one point in fact is the uh rezoning matter where directly across the street it is allowed in that entire district thank you um so again that same same discussion point applies um this would just allow the use of that um single wide again there is not sufficient frontage on this property for any further development or subdivision okay thank you and is the property owner here mr andrew coll

» ins okay all right council any questions or comments mr tucker no ma'am i'm good thank you okay all those in favor of this first reading of case 24-08 indicate by raising your hand mr brazel myself mr cato mr tomlinson mr jones mr tucker how do you vote i vote yes okay mr tucker is yay and we'll see that on the next agenda for second reading okay eight foxtrot first reading case 24 10 an ordinance to amend the kershaw county unified code of zoning and land development regulations to remove table 5-10 and amend chapter 5 section 3.8-3 and chapter 5 section 3.8-6 to update and clarify road design standards by reference and an incorporation of design criteria and standards of the south carolina asphalt pavement association also known as scapa is there a motion at this time for this ordinance m

» adam chair make a motion we approve first reading of ordinance okay mr tomlinson makes a motion to approve is there a second okay i'll second second all right i beat you mr tucker all right madam chair can we get um attorney to give us a brief mr debose we're yielding to you can you give us um an update on this and you have some design standards that mr templar passed out at the very beginning of the meeting also those go with this ordinance correct um madam chair members of council uh there are um road design standards contained within the zldr um set forth as both general design criteria and as a design thickness um chart um it has come to the um county staff's attention that the chart thicknesses um have proven insufficient in many regards in satisfying the general design um requirement

» and criteria that roads in kershaw county have a 20-year lifespan um the uh presumed policy intent behind that um was so that uh maintenance activities on publicly dedicated roads would not occur prematurely and that taxpayers wouldn't be um saddled with the burden of repairing a prematurely failing road so a 20-year useful life was um landed on again the uh pavement thicknesses required in the chart um have been determined to be outdated not as robust as those uh that would be required to satisfy a 20-year life design this text amendment seeks to clarify the ordinance by removing the table and referencing the scapa design standards and pavement thicknesses my understanding is scapa bases those design thicknesses on various soil types and site conditions that may be present kind of in broad

» buckets of categories but that is essentially uh what is occurring here scdot was consulted that is south carolina department of transportation because the general design criteria says to scdot specs and a 20-year life scdot was consulted some years ago to determine what a acceptable pavement section would be to yield a 20-year life based on their experience of road building in kershaw county and um they had suggested a 3.5 inch pavement thickness that was based on their rural local classification roads with an average daily traffic count of under a thousand vehicles that's applicable to um all but you know the most gargantuan planned unit development type subdivision so it would be applicable to broadly to um almost all development work and any pdd work of course would be before you offer

» approval and could have additional um standards attached to it there is a um representative from scapa here to um speak to the technical requirements and how they develop their criteria um just by uh way of broader background incorporation of a design criteria from a professional organization um will also assure that the county's um design standards stay up to date as uh technologies evolve material sciences evolve um but again the scapa representative um certainly available and um has come to speak to those matters and perhaps give y'all some background on the um scapa process and how they come to their criteria awesome um would the scapa representative please approach the podium could i start with one thing yes absolutely i don't support this it's just more bureaucracy okay thank you mr j

» ones sir what's your name my name's cliff sulkinghouse cliff yes yes okay thank you for being here tonight um my first question is how often does scapa update their requirements so you're at 3.5 right now right can we expect that to jump to four in the next year or there's no plans to to increase that number these are based on uh ash toe 93 and 98 standards which is basically what the dot uses okay for their payment design programs um i i retired from the dot i was working with them for 28 and a half years in the construction materials division and now i work for that obviously the asphalt payment association as their technical director and that manual was developed by clemson university um and basically took the consideration of the 93 98 that uh designed the program and kind of make it a

» little simpler for the counties and cities to use um as a pavement design program okay do you know if there are any other counties that use your information as their standard yes ma'am uh right now i can just say off the cuff at lexington richland i've adopted those okay mr dubose do you know of any other counties that are going by this standard instead of sc dot dot so um to that point i know that um lancaster county while i do not believe they utilize sc dot standards they have typical cross sections and i believe their pavement thickness requirement for their least intensive road is three and a half inches okay all right thank you all right gentlemen if what was um did y'all work with some of our country by the way thank you for being here yes sir did you uh did y'all work with some of o

» ur contracted engineers earlier in kershaw county yes sir uh mr hogue he's the one that brought me here today and he he's with who with kershaw kershaw county yes sir you tell me jonathan okay okay where's jonathan at just wait okay um with road and drainage yes sir so y'all never did have any conversation or contact with a contracted engineer that we've had in the past uh no sir okay thank you thank you mr jones any other questions for the scat the representative yes mr basil so where are we at now what's what's the standard that we've been adhering to what was the thickness the standard that is typically used as referenced and i think in that early uh memo that was dated february 21st of this year is uh six six inches of a granular aggregate base and two inches of asphalt so you're increa

» sing your thickness by inch and a half so by doing that you increase your your your lifespan of your payments that six and two was basically set up on a 10-year design life and uh the new proposed uh guidelines are based on a 20-year as mentioned earlier um uh mr but debose so basically what you're doing is increasing your your lifespan of your pavement and reducing your your future maintenance costs on your taxpayers so does this does this apply to the parking lots now is there this is strictly used for uh residential neighborhoods with a high percentage of vehicles just your consumer vehicles and uh your school buses and your trash trucks not anything higher as far as volume uh was considered in that pavement design so this is for residential neighborhoods how how does it apply to um say

» if i don't know we've already got loads but but a home depot comes in and they they built a big parking lot right yes what is their standard in that case you're gonna you're gonna jump significantly higher classes because you're having to deal with a lot heavier traffic as far as your truck traffic and your heavy loading that's concerned and the pavement design so you're you don't want to track your trailers so you're going from a class three to a class four um somewhere i would say not quite to the interstate section but you have a lot of standing traffic which requires a lot more aggregate to be put into the mix and obviously the pavement thickness has to be increased to uh withstand those heavy loads and that's in here as well yes sir that's in the that's in you're going down in that in

» that handout that was given to you i um one that says poor sub gray at the very bottom looks like this mr brazil it gives the different classes yeah they weren't i'm yeah i think it's a 1 1-13 at the very bottom of the page section 1-13 and you see in your class like class 4 this is when you're talking about your in this particular case in that if you were to put down a class 4 payment you'd be way over designing your payment so in other words that would significantly increase your your cost of your of your uh road by doing that yeah so in a class four you only have a two inch asphalt layer that's correct but you also have two if you look in your middle section you have two inch over two inches again which we're proposing you know inch and a half on top and a two inch intermediate but you h

» ave three more additional inches of asphalt aggregate base which that total is that total obviously in the middle right there is uh seven inches total so you're effectively doubling the thickness of your pavement so significantly increasing the cost of your of your end product and in that particular case which is way extreme what you're looking at is under 1 000 cars per day is the uh payment design and the second and third pages that you were given which covers more than is adequate for your uh residential neighborhoods um madam chair madam um yes mr tomlinson and then mr tucker if mr basil is done so i i'm not quite done i'm sorry you're fine no you're fine and the reason why i'm not a civil engineer so i don't understand these things um as well as you do but if if i were to vote on it i

» would i would need to understand it a little more right um you have a traffic class one with two inch and a a half layers for a total of three is that not sufficient for a residential neighborhood that that's yeah that's something that would be recommended for a a church parking lot where you're talking about cars on wednesdays and sundays only for the most part so you're just talking about you know very very few zero trucks just just a few cars per day in those particular cases so that's the reason the pavement's thinner in those particular cases because your traffic traffic expected traffic levels are extremely small right so they're bare minimal if we're going from two inches to three three and a half i think three would probably be sufficient just looking at the cost of petroleum and th

» e cost of what it what it takes to do this we keep adding costs to the cost of a home so everybody likes to talk about um affordable housing and this while on one hand right gives us a better long-term road we're also adding cost to homes aren't we that's right that's correct and that would be obviously passed you know onto the builder to the to the new home buyer but that is basically extends that maintenance cycle for you guys in the county so your your current taxpayers won't have to absorb that cost yeah i see both sides um i'd like to see us look at the the traffic class one i think if we're going if we're going from two inches to three inches that sounds like a a pretty large jump in durability would that be satisfactory is that you're doubling your your life your exact design life fr

» om a 10 to a 20 years so that adding an inch basically what you're doing now is substandard as far as our designs where it's written right now with this the six and the two only being a two-year basically a two-year uh surface layer i mean i'm sorry a two inch surface layer um so you're you're increasing your your your your um your up front costs but as far as long term you're going to you know decrease your maintenance cycle and that's one of the issues that you know with my experience with the dot that we've run into that situation where approximately 45 to 50 percent of our payments in south carolina are considered poor as far as the condition surveys and that's because of that two and six situation where they were under designed the payments long term because of the growth in their part

» icular areas is going on throughout the state but uh basically that's in turn turn into a future nightmare for the dot to have to maintain those those payments so those payments have turned into reconstruction candidates where we have to do a major reconstruction on those payments because there there's so many of them in our state 45 to 50 of our payments and as far as the dot we have 42 000 miles which is a huge number but as far as the upkeep and having to maintain that number of lane miles that that's the situation that the dot is in right now because we're having to rebuild those roads because we did not increase those standards like they should have and i think another another fair point would be that those different soil types that that roads are built on would come into play that's t

» hat's correct is how well the contractor does stumping and clearing and packing and getting the aggregate base ready before pouring the asphalt so it's a lot at play here absolutely i think i'd i'd like to have a little more time before voting on this i just got this handout when i walked in tonight and this is a relatively serious topic absolutely it's a relatively costly topic for a lot of folks like i said if you look at page that the second and third pages that were given to you the uh i would look at the uh one that says uh three inches of surface and versus the three the basically the two the one and a half plus two which equals three um you see your design life there this is good data from from our software which is pave express which you see at the very top the references the ashto

» design manual and you see the the design life 10 years 75 percent reliability that is a good standard to set your uh your payments program up on okay using a two and a six that you're currently doing it's going to give you reliability of less than 50 percent so you you're really taking that you're setting yourself up to a lot of risk by using two inch and six inch using one and a half and two one and a half inch layers or a one and a half and two inch layer gives you a lot of serviceability extended pavement life smoothness etc um mr brazil may i interject yes um cliff i'm going to get you off the hot spot mr templar did you put this on the agenda for us uh yes that's okay staffs so i want to hear from you and why this is on our agenda and why you're asking us to apply these because he didn

» 't put it on the agenda he's here as an expert okay and i appreciate mr um talking house be here um this has been a pinch point for us operationally since i've been in my previous positions over the last eight years we have um had a lot of subpar and inferior paving jobs done um that someone else's shortcut became the county's problem okay so uh we we looked at um what if a soil engineer was involved or you know would there be different types of soil compositions throughout the county um but this is just regardless of where you're at in the county this this uh this thickness is sufficient um we have roads that are i think two projects three projects if i'm not mistaken i won't name but they are we have had to sit down and have extended warranties put on these roads that were just freshly pa

» ved they're cracking from curb to curb they went out and sealed them it was kind of hey let's wait and see what's going to go on here i was i received pictures today of these roads and those sealed cracks have cracked again and that they've even expanded so i just also if you look at the amount of development we have in kershaw county our paved road inventory is growing significantly and it's growing at at a rate that if if we put in three or four or five subdivisions within a year or two of one another if if we're going with a subpar road arguably they're all going to fail at the same time and we've been warned about this from the ctc that's our funding mechanism for paving so um and that was probably about five years ago they warned us about our paved um inventory um just from a just from

» an upkeep uh standpoint so this is something that um i as the administrator i i i need i need this durability um in it because we have a very limited public works division we don't pave we patch patching is just not going to be a long-term fix um so i i i just think um with all the other issues we have we being um operationally public public works you know storm water aside we just need a durable product and i think this is um it is an increased cost to the developer i understand that i'm sensitive to that but um at the end of the day i just don't think that um it's it's the taxpayers obligation to ensure the profitability of of our builders here and that's just where i stand on that thank you for that so currently our ordinance does state a 20-year roadway life design is required in kersha

» w county so we have a table that gives us different thickness based on different soils that we're using and so this table is not lasting 20 years so we're saying two different things in our ordinance correct and this will this cleans that up and it makes us consistent removing the table going to 3.5 across the county we can ensure 20 years out of our roads okay current madam chair if i may um presently the i got you mr jones three and a half um standard has been applied um one because it was the recommendation of sedot per their designs and specs what they would they would do if they were doing something okay when did we start requiring the 3.5 i want to say within the last six months maybe a little longer than that okay okay um and part of that madam chairs uh just in in um referencing the

» conflicting provisions uh clauses of the zldr um it's kind of a truism that the more more restrictive or higher standard within conflicting provisions of a regulation um are set forth as the controlling provision okay so when it was determined that the two and six was not yielding anywhere close to a 20-year road and the zldr says 20-year road um county staff went out to um determine definitively what a 20-year road would be okay this um reference to scapa standards if adopted would kind of formalize that standard but also provide a lot more guidance and um particular guidance uh through the scapa manual to uh okay community i think we understand all that thank you uh mr tomlinson um so just to clarify basically um i think one of our public comments said mr templar you just said it so what

» this does is it increase the quality of our roads increases the longevity of our roads in turn taking the risk off of the people who have been here the taxpayer absolutely that is that a short short end of what this is absolutely i i love the taxpayer here so this is something i'm going to support and i've been to the ctc meetings um i mean there's a list of 40 people who've some have been waiting 10 20 years to get their pavement fixed um so that is true about the ctc next is mr tucker and then mr jones thank you madam chair and i think what i was thank you for being patient no problem the uh i spoke to a couple of ctc members commissioners uh when i got my agenda last week and they're in full support of this because of the reasons that were stated of having long longevity uh roads paved a

» nd that they're able to stretch their monies not repeating pavement on subdivisions that have not lived the quality of life that the roads should have and for those reasons tonight i will be supporting this and what i would ask my colleagues too um it's just first reading so once you don't get answered tonight let's do a little dialogue a little research and see can we um you know make amendments or make adjustments second reading if need be thank you madam chair okay thank you mr tucker mr jones thank you uh quail hollow has been there how long not uh maybe 20 years plus mid 90s yeah conifer acres has been there how long probably since before i was born yeah those roads 1985 those roads have done pretty well i said i like what russ uh council president said let's do we know the thickness o

» n those roads well it would be under the old standard i mean they might be 3.5 i mean we don't know they're not 3.5 can you can you tell us as far as those developments no i cannot tell you that as far as it short of you know have an engineering firm come out and cut cores to check thickness yeah if you already don't want you know somebody to do that we could probably arrange for that to be done but obviously the roads the roads mr jones how can we ensure that every development does what conifer acres and quail hollow does i think if you look at all the subdivisions and look at their roads um you know i hear we're talking about a problem i just uh i just think it's more bureaucracy i'm not going to support it and i would i would like to ask for more time to look at it i know some of my subd

» ivisions that are newer uh their roads are already falling apart the ones on black river um and those are newer subdivisions that were built within the last 15 years yes they are they're underneath the same standards uh i don't know if it's different soil type different location what it is but i don't i don't see why we continue to put the you know we sit up here and we talk about being um stewards of a taxpayer we've gotten a plan where we as directly said we're taking the pressure off the taxpayer and we're putting it on what about affordable housing what about more bureaucracy well i mean the taxpayer we keep adding and adding and adding more rules and more rules and more regulations and more requirements and we're just increasing a standard we're not adding rules and regulations that's

» increasing the standards that's that's that's a good way to put it just like safety for our school buses i mean we use we use the trick words like that to make it look like if we're not in favor of it that uh we're against safety i just don't see it as a pressing need at the moment mr kato mr temper question first of all question so i understand this right the initial cost of the paging paving project would be on the developer correct okay so if we're looking at bringing our developments in our county to a higher level and to a higher standard then we ought to be making sure that we bring the roads and those developments to a higher standard and keeping up with the standards so i'm i'm going to be in favor of this tonight thank you mr kato cliff do you know how much approximately 1.5 inches

» of payment is per mile it depends it depends on your on your on your you know the size of your development so the larger larger size projects obviously are going to be less expensive to pay because of the mobilization and bringing all the equipment in to do the work versus smaller scale projects or smaller neighborhoods are shorter in length you generally have a cost per ton that's generally higher than than the large scale project so okay throwing a number on there without a you know actually you know that's okay you know i mean as far as the dot 150 to 200 thousand dollars a lane mile okay or two inch resurfacing which is milling two inches and putting back two so you're doing new construction so there's no milling no milling okay just a matter of placing an additional inch and a half on

» top okay i do thank you for being here though yeah i appreciate it yes sir and i don't support but thank you very much for your you know comments one more question so after the paving project is done in these developments what is the time period between when it becomes actually becomes the county's issue do is there a warranty on it a five year ten year what what's the warranty between the development between the development taking care of it and the county's problem mr dubose currently um kershaw county has a one-year performance bond guarantee on um roads and um it is at a percentage of the total road construction cost but yeah it's a a one-year warranty period um there have been some discussions about looking at that and tweaking at that but um nothing's obviously been advanced to y'all

» and there's some consideration about whether that be more appropriate in the zldr rewrite or as a standalone matter so if we've only got a year warranty and even if we were to put a three and a half inch asphalt layer down and you got a stump left in the road and it takes two years to rot you're going to get a major pothole you can't avoid that that's just poor construction and in lack of uh inspection as far as the uh the engineering or whoever's involved with the inspection work on the job just making sure that that everything is removed when you're talking about a rotting stump or you know preparing preparing the subgrade preparing the the granular base before you even start paving all that is very important to that to make sure that the project's successful here's where i'm at i'll supp

» ort it on first reading but i would like to see the other um issues addressed as well and i'd like to do a little bit a little bit of research as far as to how much it's going to cost and um before i support it on second or third so i appreciate all the information yeah thank you mr brazil um yes mr tucker i just want to tell councilman brazil thank you and i appreciate the position that he's taken you're welcome sammy thank you mr tucker mr templar um for second reading i'm going to need more data on how many roads we've taken in and are busted up or in need of repairs how quickly they got to that point i just need some hard data in the county how many roads we're taking on how quickly and how many we're we're having to repair because i think that would help this council determine the exte

» nt of the problem also the cost and then also a recommendation from your staff if we need to increase that warranty period please yes okay thank you all right all those in favor of this first reading of case 24-10 amending our zldr to development regulations indicate by raising your hand mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazil mr tucker how do you vote i vote yes madam chair i'm talking to a mute phone sorry okay mr tucker yes and all those opposed mr jones all right we'll have that second reading at the first meeting in april all right up to item number nine council member briefings um mr jones can you start us off tonight please i will you know i just want to give a shout out to madam chair you know we talked about how she got in a promotion the other day and we're very proud of that she's

» in the national guard she's thank you she's a veteran and um also i she's gonna probably shoot me for this but she's also been accepted to uh school which is fixed winging school am i correct on that what can you explain what that is i mean um it's not county related so no it's not but i can talk about it it can be county related but i can talk about it and uh and i'm very proud of you on that you on your promotion i'm very proud of you on your service i'm very proud of you um getting accepted to that class that i know that was very important to you serving serving our country and i want to say as far as myself whatever you're doing when it comes to your military career and your service to your country don't you worry about county council we got your back on that well thank you you know whe

» n you're out there serving serving our country in the military and you can't make a meeting i got you back i support you on that and i've been in 18 years and uh i would say the large portion of our community 90 percent support you and would never condemn uh remember this council serving their country well thank you i appreciate that if they do i ask them speak up now thank you um and this council loves when you run the meetings too they have told me that you haven't let me forget that ever since uh when i made it thank you mr johns i feel the love i think it's more because he can't talk as much okay uh mr brazil are you mr brazil yeah thank you madam chair um hey i'd like to say that i drove across uh the watery river bridge earlier and both lanes were open i was pretty excited about that

» it's been it's been a horrific winter um so thanks to to all the guys at south carolina department of transportation for finally getting that project moving um i don't have a whole lot to say tonight i i would like to say to our administrator thank you for bringing up the the asphalt situation those are things that we're not experts on and might be why i ask a few questions but um appreciate all the work that that you're doing to improve um improve the county so we really do appreciate that sir that's all thank you mr brazil mr tucker yes ma'am madam chair thank you um just very quickly uh this is for everyone but especially mr temper um i should be in touch with you hopefully by the first of april um the cog meets um next monday which should be the first april april food day and um just fy

» i we are and myself and the director cov executive director and uh cm cov are in conversation on some things uh won't go into detail because we haven't had final discussion but we're making some head rows or over there and trying to get things done or at least in the pipe for the west of watery with that being said um i want to just say for the finance committee uh we met on the 19th and 21st last week we are completed with all the elected officials now and uh we're doing some non-profit and we have a meeting this coming thursday the 28th at 3 30 at the government center for all who wants to attend um other than that that concludes my report okay thank you mr tucker mr cato so just a few things um first of all this past friday we had an opportunity to um host the kershaw county leadership i

» think years ago might have been called junior leadership um so there was a few of us that got to attend that with those students to juniors and seniors from our area high schools i think every school every high school in the county was represented they came here for a brief overview of the county council and they actually had a malt council meeting and it was it was a great time and uh i hope it was very informative and i thank everybody that took the time to put that together um to really especially uh mrs amy counter she'd done a great job um arranging this meeting uh this mock meeting and uh it really was i hope it was informative to the students um also i want to send out and there's going to be more on this in the future but i want to send out a congratulations to the north central wei

» ghtlifting team they are the uh 2a state champions they won the state championship in weightlifting and one of their athletes actually set a 2a state record that had been held for over 30 years by squatting 555 pounds so we're gonna i'm gonna have a little bit more on that in the future but but congratulations to them i hope everybody has a safe weekend we have the cup on saturday and easter on sunday so i hope everybody has a safe and enjoyable weekend thank you thank you mr kato mr tomlinson thank you madam chair um i'm gonna be quick and brief as always thank you staff thank you mr templar for all we've put on your plate recently and and your um willingness to do all that miss hannah thank you as always um big bucks that's right um and just as a gentleman brought up earlier in the public

» comments section um i've been working personally with some members of city council to look at developing a kershaw county um equine advisory council um so this is something that we're going to be looking at having in the next couple of months coming up but members from the equine park the south carolina equine park board carolina racing cup racing cup association horsemen's council other equine related industry if they want to come on and then two appointments each from city and county to do that and i think it's looking at the future and it's both within our strategic plans that we have currently um so that's something i would like to work uh directly with madam chair and council sooner yes absolutely yep yep to y'all that's great i mean quicker is better and then also i know i'd like ther

» e was one thing tonight that just kind of you know spoke and i think it was actually the same gentleman the impact fees that he mentioned that's fort mill where before he'd mentioned those impact fees were seventy five thousand dollars or something that is not related to anything that we can do on council we are regulated by law i believe is based upon census data data for homes and everything on the amount if we were to do impact fees that we could do i think right now once current things come in maybe 2500 would be our max i just wanted to put that out there again because the 75 000 that was mentioned the fort mill is not related to anything on impact fees that we have going on um and as mr cato said thank you again um we look forward to seeing everybody at the carolina cup and happy east

» er thank you mr tomlinson um i echo um what you said about the equine park board i'm very interested in getting that up and running um thank you to mr graham who reached out to me um to get it together it is needed it is something um if this council thinks that i need to serve on it absolutely will um but if you're a member of the community interested in serving on that board please reach out to myself mr tomlinson um or mr graham at the city so we can get that going as soon as possible i'm going through my notes because i do want to answer some questions from public comments bill kistler um the reapplication process uh mr debose the applicant for rezoning once they withdraw their rezoning application they do they have to wait a certain time period before they reapply no um a denial of a re

» zoning requires a year wait before someone can apply for that same zoning designation that they saw um a withdrawal would not prevent a reappligation okay for the same request but again the entire process would start over with planning commission okay posted notices etc so to answer mr kitzler's question um yes the owner can reapply immediately he's withdrawn his application and he can reapply as far as the public posting um mr templar i'm going to add that to your list let's make sure we have public postings in adequate locations so the community knows there's a rezoning application in the works um thank you steven staley um thank you for working with the johnstons and the barnets the constituents getting their problems resolved um i've heard nothing but great things about mr staley since

» he's come on board so i'm really happy about that all right um health service district of kershaw county i want to give them a shout out and to mr brazel thank you um for working with me on getting the grant for um the park um that was it went towards a senior a senior walking trail they did receive the grant and they were able to make those upgrades so thanks for working on that and thanks to the health service district for approving that grant um scdot requests so we had a lot of constituents and i wrote them down so i will put the request in scdot myself but anybody can go to the scdot's website and request a traffic study or request a stop sign yield sign traffic light whatever the constituent thinks is the traffic problem you can go to dot's website you'll have to submit your personal

» information name email contact information but you can request that they look into that so my feedback to that is as many requests we send to scdot i do think that the greasy wheel will or the squeaky wheel will get the grease on that so um go on that website and let's just keep sending those requests for ross road and highway one specifically white pond road i am tracking the traffic issues there too um so thank you for bringing those to our attention mr john britton i did get your email um i did respond contact me if you need more information for council impact fees um i am ready to move forward with that and give staff the go ahead to start their preliminary work and bring back to us i think mr templar correct me if i'm wrong staff is kind of waiting to hear something from this council b

» efore you spend the money and you do the work on what is needed okay so i'm going to put that on the agenda for april 9th um just get that and you know so we can start thinking about that but i'm ready to move forward on that one way or the other um to take action on it all right i want to thank mr kurt arnold um for his 15 years of service in the assessor's office he will be retiring um from kershaw county service so thank you mr arnold kershaw county council meeting clergy prayer schedule the concerned clergy of kershaw county has put together a prayer schedule for the rest of the year for county council and they have a dedicated um clergy available for us during that week of council so i just want to thank them um thank thank you to their involvement with government and everything they d

» o for the people in kershaw county that group they meet every month and they talk about community needs and issues that they are seeing in their churches and their communities so keep up the good work to the clergy community thank you last thing um this is for mr templar and i we need to research and get on the bridge repair on wildwood lane in elgin it's been a couple years that that bridge has been out and we need to get an update from um whoever's responsibility is to get that open so um that is a segue from columbia to elgin so with all the traffic on the other roads and the growth issue we need to get that bridge open as soon as possible all right that's all i have mr templar thank you um i just have a few things first off i just want to start out by thanking everybody um that came out

» to do the uh the trash pickup last weekend um i eat probably saw the orange and green bags everywhere also like to thank staff that came out we we jumped on shiraw road and park road which is out near our spaces at the uh park road landfill a lot of trash out there i think we ended up with well over 50 bags and it sadly wasn't that long of a distance but it was just so dense in terms of trash um if anyone sees a an area on shiraw road that has not been picked up that's where i met the pit bull that charged me so kind of got out of there wasn't worth it so maybe we'll get back there one day um a couple other things that were put on uh mr brazel you'll be happy to know we have a cost opinion for the boat ramp um we've got two options one with a paved parking lot one with a gravel parking lot

» that first option with the gravel parking lot is totaled at seven hundred and eighty five thousand dollars you remember we had five hundred thousand dollars from the state from a a grant and then we had a hundred thousand dollar match so we're a little short on that but i think this is a a really neat project i think this gives us an opportunity to do something really neat and useful and impactful down at one of our green spaces at the river it's been mentioned time and time again that this is one of the very few if not one of the well the only public river access on this side so we have a neat opportunity to do something there and i know we're a little short but i look forward to working with council to perhaps um close that gap and and make this project happen so um we'll uh look at that

» and then the uh the other option with pavement was uh nine hundred and seventy thousand dollars um all right so we're let me let me write some of this down 780 but it's a cost opinion that's not necessarily a cost we're going to go through a bid process right so the yes potentially come in lower they usually estimate pretty high right and with this design too can we make sure we get it out to the folks the public so they can see it before we start making a decision yes absolutely get their feedback on it um well just to that point we had several public input um sessions uh mr blanchard went down himself to the the old boat ramp and when we polled people we asked what you all want and this is this is kind of an aggregate of what the public input was so i feel pretty did the only other apprec

» iate that that's good to know yeah it and and from what i've uh what i've seen it's it's definitely what i've heard the the floating dock being of course upstream from the from the launch points uh being the biggest point of contention parking um what was the number i'm sorry nine how much was was the cost estimate for the as if we asphalt the parking lot 970 970 and was that two or three and a half inch asphalt that is two i knew that was coming i knew it so that number will go up a little bit because it'll be three and a half yeah that old boat ramp was very dangerous i actually saved a life out there one day they got sucked under it pulled them out that was myself myself listen um i'd like to have a can we have a just a short discussion about the boat ramp i want to make sure that he has

» a clear okay for um mr tumbler is that okay with you sure it's your brief okay and make sure we have a clear year four or two so from what he's telling us it sounds like he thinks he can close the gap financially does anybody is this body have a problem with him moving forward with that and in proceeding to the bid process or do we do we need to make a vote we need to know where the money's going to come from it needs to be stated then we we need to vote on this okay so i think mr bose can jump in if i'm wrong we've he's already allocated to spend 600 he would have to go out and get the bids and if they come if then it goes over 600 and he'll come back to us and tell us how much money he needs he doesn't need 785 or 970 right now oh it's just an opinion mr bros and i'm sorry madam chair are

» you talking about the pave the pave portion well and i think that well that's a that's the b part of the question um do we want to do we want to pave this do we want to try to stretch to pave this or do we want to leave it uh like a question and that's a very good question but where i'm at i would like to see some detail on the money and where the where the extra money is going to come from i think the gravel with it being along the river and i mean and other things i think gravel would actually be more economically beneficial we'd be able to put it back on and stuff um what is um patriots landing right now gravel okay so do we know if any of the public said they would prefer paved i mean was that any of the public's input okay i'm sure yes mr tucker um i would just like to say if we do the

» um if we do the gravel for now let's make sure that we prep it for the page so that way we would only need to put a light coat over it whatever it be a sand base or gravel base and then we can pave in the future just don't put a two inch layer there and then when it's time to pave you've got to build up two more inches or whatever that's a good idea mr tucker thank you so gravel for now and then but if he can if he knows later i think we had a work i think the gentleman in the back would you would you tell us what you heard from the public gerald mr blanchard he was he was nodding his head and i couldn't understand him do you mind coming up and telling us and i'm sorry to drag i like how you say the gentleman from the back it's um our deputy administrator gerald branch and how many people y

» ou talked to how many people uh over the four or five days that we were out there we probably saw 30 30 people at different times um primarily we were over at patriot landing in in that area um actually um like danny and i spoke about a few days ago when we were talking about the boat ramp uh several people mentioned um the gravel when they're pulling their boat out uh when they're pulling out it tend it has a tendency to get dirt dust and and actually mud when it rains on their their boat their trailer their vehicle so they were actually uh very adamant about paving uh the boat ramp if at all possible in fact a couple actually mentioned uh the duke uh boat ramp that's on the lake side of course but uh but they mentioned the duke ramp being paved and nice that's all okay that and the the ot

» her thing that was very important to a lot of folks um were light it was lighting and i don't i'm not sure if that actually is included in this but security lighting so okay per the cost opinion it's 180 000 difference which which is a good bit of money but i think the added value i think we'd be done with it we it's kind of like moving into your house before you you're quite finished with it you never do finish the last few things and what about security lighting for us how much would that cost did that include that it didn't and i would have to look at that because of the the um we have power down there but um we have to make when the water comes up because obviously this this area does is susceptible to high water that's my only concern with electrical down there okay so um i mean if it

» i will certainly look into that because to gerald's point i can't believe i forgot about the thousand year flood so could we i don't want to just you know hey have it my way but could we could we point them in the direction of taking vids with asphalt and if the if the monies are available move forward that way and that way it's just done put on the mr debose do we need to take a vote for him to open up bidding on this project 600 is is budgeted i mean if a bid comes in at um 600 obviously the the project could proceed if additional funding uh is needed there'd have to be some approval by council for the additional funding um i don't know that um you know the expectation when you put it out for bid is that the people bidding on it you know the project is proceeding but not not 100 of the ti

» me so i'm equivocating but um yeah i think y'all could put it out for bid to see if you um receive bids within the budget amount or very close to it we don't need to vote on approving this plan i think y'all would want to probably approve the plan i think that'd be a good idea this plan out for bid yeah yeah okay can we can we have that on the next agenda then i'd like to move move forward i don't know i'd like that yeah yeah i thought we're going to try to and and and let's let's do it with asphalt is that agreeable to put it on the agenda with asphalt yeah i'm fine with that put it out the bid and then with asphalt yeah we can always go lower from there yes mr timber put it on the agenda how you and staff and the citizens have determined you want it to be and then april 9th we'll bottom t

» ier sounds good and that way once we get bids we'll know you know the cost opinions are always really high um we've seen that with with other things i feel like they're covering their bases and overshooting a little bit and i think if we get some competitive bids we may be able to get everything we need one other thing the um you know we still have the old the floating dock from the other location so that's that's going to be a mitigating kind of circumstance there so um okay so how do you bid it that way it just they'll they'll they'll set the iron there and then have that and then some of it will be new and some will be okay so so the cost opinion probably they probably figured using a new dock didn't they i'm almost 100 and that's probably that's probably 100 grand that's half the asphal

» t so let let's move in that direction if we could and um let's get this thing going let's get it to bid stage well the folks won't it no question about that no no question thank you thank you mr tucker thank you mr brazil sorry to cut you off mr tucker did you have something to add uh yes i was just asking um the way he got the um folks just now um because i've seen bids sent out this way before which i'm for the pay but why couldn't you give them the bid on both while they're bidding they can that could be in the bid package you bid on the pavement bid on the gravel and that way we have working documents to do what we decide we can find the money for okay that's why he's cheering okay thank you mr tucker so mr templar um bids on both so that we have comparisons you okay with that but the c

» ouncil brazil not really i don't want to push me to be completely and totally honest but it's a fair it's a fair and valid point uh i won't contest i mean we have to yeah we won't have to uh keep the um one for the gravel but it's good to look at just in case money's funny i just i think we'll be dumping gravel on it having a motor grader down there and working on it all the time and people's trash will get down there in the gravel and you'll have to pick the trash up out of the gravel it's easier to maintain an asphalt parking lot 20 years i'm with you on that two inches all right thank you mr tucker um back to you danny for the rest of your brief please um moving on to the uh the sewer expansion project uh staff met last week with davis and floyd so just wanted to remind you all of some o

» f the target dates obviously the completion date is the most important because we have arpa funds that have to be expended by the end of uh 26 so 6-1-26 is the estimated completion date for construction in the meantime for uh 4-1-24 will submit for construction permits and applications for uh stormwater permits through dhek um 7-1 we hope to of 24 we hope to acquire those permits and then um 8-1 we're going out for bids for advertisement for bids and then 11-1-24 begin construction so um this this project there's there's a lot involved in permitting and designing and things of that nature but looking at the the feedback from the the meeting uh staff had with davis and floyd there's a lot was discussed and and so i feel i feel good about this project moving forward so with uh as it relates t

» o its its time um woodward park continuing to move on with that um we've completed a topographic service wetlands delineation uh design level geotechnical subsurface exploration um traffic impact analysis so and now we're starting into the architectural engineering design and permitting um so that's that's just starting to kind of ramp up there um so this uh the next rep commission meeting i excuse me i think it's on the 8th will be um we'll present that design to the rec commission for any adjustments they would have uh some input on um i'm sorry april 3rd uh next wednesday so they'll review the committee will review the rendering and make recommendations for any change um i do feel there's opportunity for change for some cost cutting there but we'll still end up with a really nice project

» um the next step from there would be the full design of the facility with an architectural kickoff and and as it relates to the upper part of the county uh with bethune and mount pisgah alliance is reviewing the proposal for well bethune and westville we had talked about lighting up there but there are some field adjustments we're going to make with the design of the field and the fencing and moving that so what we'll want to do is obviously do that before we place lighting so um and i want that to move honestly at a much quicker pace because i just feel like that is a simpler project on an already existing facility up there we're just upgrading and reconfiguring the field and installing some nice lights so yes thank you for making them a priority yeah so um and that is all i have thank you

» okay thank you mr debose legal briefing nothing outside of the executive session matters okay up to item number 12 we have three matters on executive session this evening is there a motion to enter executive session at this time make a motion we enter executive session mr cato with the motion is there a second second second by mr tomlinson any discussion okay all those in favor of entering executive session indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazel and mr tucker how do you vote entering entering executive session yes okay we are now in executive session and chris if you'll please get okay is there a motion to come out of executive session okay mr brazel with the motion second mr cato with a second um into discussion mr brazel or mr cato anything okay um co

» uncil did meet an executive executive session we had three issues that we needed to receive a legal briefing on um no votes were taken and um we will have action once we come out all those in favor of getting out of executive session indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazel mr tucker how do you vote coming out of executive session yay or nay i vote yeah okay all right we are out of executive session at this time i move that we authorize the administrator to initiate combination actions as needed in connection with the county's southern loop sewer project as discussed in executive session is there a second second second by mr brazel um into discussion this is a necessary motion so that we can complete the southern loop project and mr templar can you remind

» us how much money we have the county has um invested in the southern loop project it's close to six million dollars through the phases the various phases okay and what phase are we in now this is 2a okay if i could yes mr jones i i will be voting against this to stay in tradition with how i feel about condemnation taking someone else's property thank you thank you mr jones you're welcome any other discussion questions for the administrator mr tucker uh no i'm good thank you okay write all those in favor of authorizing the administrator to take action as needed in connection with the southern loop sewer project condemnation action as assessed discussed in executive session indicate by raising your hand mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazel mr tucker how do you vote vote yes okay mr tucker is

» yay and all those opposed mr jones back to the agenda item number 13 is there a motion to adjourn mr tucker with the motion mr tomlinson second all those in any discussion mr jones okay all those in favor of adjournment indicate by raising your hand mr jones mr tomlinson mr cato myself mr brazel and mr tucker how do you vote i vote yes okay mr tucker is yay this meeting is adjourned thank you