Full meeting transcript - March 12, 2024

» All right, good evening, Kershaw County citizens that are here with us in person and watching online. This is the first meeting of March, regularly scheduled meeting, and I call this meeting to order. We're going to start this meeting off with an invocation from Pastor Steve Lee. Pastor Lee, thank you for being here. And when you get to the podium, can you tell us what church you're from? Do we have a, I'm sorry, Pastor Lee, do we have a microphone? A mic. Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the privilege of government in which we can take part. And Lord, we honor your word where you told through the Apostle Paul to Timothy.

» I exhort, therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercession, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior. And Lord, that is our desire. I pray tonight, Lord God, that we might seek that from the county council chair. We thank you for our leaders, Lord God, to every county council member, Lord God, and for everyone that came to this meeting tonight. Lord, we ask that we would desire, that we would desire peace, Lord God, and that we might lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty, because that's acceptable and good in your sight.

» And we give thanks always for all of the goodness that you shed into our life, from the beauty of this day, to the blooming of the flowers in the early spring, to health, Lord God, and the gift of salvation through your son, Jesus Christ, in whose name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Item number four, adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion pertaining to tonight's agenda? Madam Chair, I make a motion that we adopt the agenda as presented. Okay. Mr. Tucker makes a motion to adopt the agenda as presented. Is there a second? Second.

» Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion to amend the agenda. Okay. Mr. Brazel with the amendment. I'd like to add a proclamation to line item five. It would be 5A. Okay. Before Women's History Month? Yes. Okay. Is there a second on Mr. Brazel's amendment? I'll second it. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson with the second. Any discussion on adding a proclamation tonight? Okay. And all those in favor of Mr. Brazel's amendment to add a proclamation to 5A, making Women's History Month 5B, indicate by raising your hand. Right. The vote is unanimous. So please add 5A, an additional proclamation. All right. And any other amendments to the agenda? Okay. All those in favor of adopting this agenda as amended, please raise your hand. And the vote is unanimous. All right.

» Madam Chair, just a quick little point of order. Yes. Mr. Jones, what's your point of order? When we do the recognition of all the votes are unanimous, can we, for the record, make sure we call each individual council member's name out that voted in favor? That voted in favor? Yes. On unanimous? Yes. Just recognizing each person by name. Okay. I'm going to ask Mr. DeBose if that's required for unanimous. No, it's not required. This is something that we have, we've always done in the past just for better records. Okay. So Mr. Jones, I've, I've used each person's name when it's not unanimous. And then I use unanimous to speed up the efficiency of the meeting because it's the, the attendance record is on the minutes. So if it's unanimous, everyone in attendance voted for it.

» I'm happy either way. You were on a great meeting. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, sir. All right. Up to item number five, proclamations. We will start with the added proclamation by Mr. Braswell. This is a proclamation in honor of Charles J. Neese. Whereas Senior Chief Petty Officer Charles J. Neese, Charlie, was born and grew up in Kershaw County, South Carolina, the third of four sons of Ray and Carol Neese, attended Kershaw County schools until ninth grade and graduated from Thomas Sumter Academy in 1997. And upon graduation, entered the United States Navy in 1998. And whereas Senior Chief Petty Officer Neese enlisted in the U.S. Navy as an AeroGrapher's A.G.

» Mate, and in his culmination of 25 years of personal and professional sacrifice to the armed forces, he has become lauded as the most seasoned combat chief in naval meteorology and oceanography in the United States Navy. He provided precise forecasting data for multiple intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance assets in missions against foreign terrorist groups, advises the chief of naval operations on future capabilities, and is currently the senior enlisted forecaster for the Atlantic fleet, and will retire in June 2024 at his final duty station, Naval Station Norfolk.

» And whereas Senior Chief Petty Officer Neese was assigned to SEAL Team 6 and carried out highly sensitive missions at the direction of the President of the United States, where his expertise and professionalism were critical to national security. And whereas Senior Chief Petty Officer Neese is a graduate of the Naval Technical School of Meteorology and Oceanography, a graduate of the Navy Senior Enlisted Academy, trained near shore ocean wave forecasting, qualified as an enlisted information dominance warfare specialist, qualified as an enlisted exponential warfare specialist, and qualified as a Navy Command career counselor, and whereas Senior Chief Petty Officer Charles J.

» Neese has been awarded the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, two Joint Service Accommodation Medals, five National Defense Medals, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, and NATO Medal, and whereas Department of Defense Colleagues described Senior Chief Petty Officer Neese as a man of high respect, knowledge, experience, exceptional abilities, with a passion for meteorology and oceanography, a man that epitomizes the Navy core values of honor, courage, and commitment, and a man of unmatched discipline and perseverance. And whereas military service impacts spouses and families, and we recognize the service and sacrifice of Mrs.

» Christine Neese, and we acknowledge her dedication and support to her husband's career, and we honor his son, Sam Neese, his daughter and son-in-law, Anna and Jake, and his grandchildren, Amelia and Alex, who all undoubtedly faced challenges while their father was deployed in support of worldwide missions. And whereas the outstanding achievements of Senior Chief Petty Officer Charles J. Neese in the United States Navy, his selfless service to the United States of America, the American people, and the citizens of his hometown of Kershaw County are not only recognized, but celebrated with extreme gratitude. Now, therefore, be it resolved, Kershaw County Council expresses its gratitude to Senior Chief Petty Officer Charles J.

» Neese, and proudly dedicates this 12th day of March, 2024, as Charles J. Neese Day in Kershaw County, South Carolina, in his honor. Is there a motion to accept this proclamation? So moved. Mr. Brousel, with the motion, is there a second? Second. Second, Mr. Tomlinson? Mr. Brousel, we'll go to you first. You have the floor. Charlie Neese, it is not often in a man's life that he can honor a friend in such a way. It is my absolute privilege to call Charlie Neese a friend, a fellow American, and a naval hero. Charlie has many accolades that were noted in the proclamation tonight. But now let me add that he is all of those things, plus one of the truest friends any man could have. He has served his country, his family, his friends, all without fail.

» Charlie Neese, you have made Kershaw County proud. May I introduce Charlie Neese to Kershaw County. All those in favor, real quick, we'll vote. All those in favor of accepting the proclamation in honor of Mr. Neese, Senior Chief Petty Officer Neese, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. Hold on, Neese family. Hold on one second. I think there's a couple other folks who would like to say something. Yes, absolutely. Mr. Jones? Well, I just want to say, Chief, we're very proud of you. You're a prime example of what our country is all about. Appreciate your service. I was honored to have Russell Brazel ask me to sign that resolution. I'm going to tell you something, Russell. Good job tonight. That's some good stuff. Well, let me tell you something.

» It wouldn't have been possible without Chairwoman Gwynn. Absolutely. Everybody worked on that. And I'm not going to talk about my military service as a clerk typist, because it wouldn't go anywhere near yours, Chief. We're proud of you. God bless you and your wonderful family. And it was an honor and a privilege for me to do that, to sign that tonight. Thank you, sir. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senior Chief, you can tell he's Army. He's calling you Chief. See, that's how they do us. That's right. I want to say congratulations and thank you for your service. And just share a little tidbit of an experience I had about two weeks ago. I went to Wilson, North Carolina, to visit some Navy buddies. And we had from an 06 full bird down, about 20 of us.

» And, you know, you make friends in the United States Armed Forces, no matter what branch you're in, for life. But the good part now, you get to enjoy your family more and go when you want to, to see them. But nothing but wishing you great travels and great journey on your retirement. And we can't say thank you enough for your service. That's an impeccable record that you have. And it shows on your sleeve right there. I'm very proud of you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Yes, please. Charlie, while you're coming up. So I had a list of people that had worked with you in the past at different duty stations. No, it was phenomenal. The things that were said about you were just phenomenal. The proclamation, there's not enough room for me to put everything that was on there.

» So sincerely, thank you for your service. I was really honored to do that for you tonight. And thank you, Mr. Brazel, for bringing it. And it was his idea to honor you in your retirement. So we're very appreciative. You have the floor. Let me have an open microphone. Absolutely. You can't say anything any worse than anyone else has said, Charlie. Go ahead. Challenge accepted. This is not how I thought I was going to end my day today. My oldest childhood friend is here. We went to kindergarten together, Nick Voss. I didn't, had no idea. I don't even know if you knew I was going to be here. You probably had an inkling. And of course, Russell and his family, who I've known since I was in the sixth grade. My thoughts are all over the place right now.

» So I'm going to say a bunch of stuff, and then something's going to make sense here in a second. But I see some retired military hats out there. I see a Vietnam and a retired Air Force hat. Thank you for your service. And thank you both for your service. And thanks for putting this together for me. I'm pretty infallible until you get to the part where you start talking about my family. They couldn't make it today. We're banking leave right now, so I can take my terminal leave and get out. So my wife is staying home with our son and making sure he can get to school and so she can work as she did all these years. And I couldn't have done any of this without her. She really pushed me through.

» There was a lot of deployments and a lot of hard days that she had to endure, and I can't get that back to her. So I really appreciate her sacrifice in this. But I won't keep you. I really appreciate you letting me have a little bit of time with you. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. Thank you, niece family. And Charlie, if you'd like to retire in Kershaw County, come on down. All right. Thank you, gentlemen. All right. Next item is five, bravo. Women's History Month. Right. A proclamation recognizing Women's History Month. Whereas Kershaw County recognizes the month of March as Women's History Month and March 8th as Women's International Day to honor all women of every race, status, ethnicity, who have made historic contributions to the growth and strength of Kershaw County.

» And whereas women play a critical role in education, industry labor, civil rights, peace movements, medicine, government, and military. And whereas the culture and leadership accomplishments of women often go unnoticed. So Kershaw County believes it is important to recognize and bring attention to the valuable contributions that women have made to our society and the important role that women have played in our history. And whereas women have been at the forefront of every major social change movement in history, whether in home or outside of the home. And women have made great sacrifices to pave the way for current and future generations of Americans to enjoy and exercise those rights, duties and responsibilities that are afforded equally to all citizens of the United States of America.

» And whereas Kershaw County celebrates and recognizes and will continue to celebrate and recognize women in their achievements and their contributions. Now, therefore, I, Caitlin E. Gwynn, Chairwoman of Kershaw County Council, along with the members of Kershaw County Council, do hereby proclaim March 2024 as Women's History Month in Kershaw County. Signed and sealed this March 12th, 2024, Kershaw County, South Carolina. And with that, I make a motion that we accept this proclamation. Second. Second, second, second, second. You, you, you. Okay, Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones with a second and into discussion. I first want to give kudos to Ms. Hannah who put this on my radar. We are the mayors of Bethune, Susan Holley, Elgin, Melissa Emmons, Anne Camden, Alfred May Jakeford.

» They all have recognized this month as Women's History Month, too. So, we're following suit. And thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. It's a pleasure working with you. I am not your mom, though. Mr. Jones. Thank you very much. My mic will not stay up. It keeps going down. Is that on purpose? Yes. Okay. I have a surprise tonight. And she doesn't know I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway. And she was fussing me in the back. And I said, you're not my wife. Don't talk to me that way. I'm talking about you, Madam Chair. Let me say something. I want to give a big, fat, great, big, fat congratulations to our Madam Chair, who got promoted to CW3 in the Army, which is Chief Warrant Officer 3. There are five ranks for a warrant officer.

» And sometimes, I think, Madam Chair, we forget up here that you are still in the National Guard in the military and serving our country. And so, you're moving up in your military career. You're in school. And you are chairing county council and you're being a mom. And I don't know how you do it all because I don't think any of us men could do it. But moms seem to be able to do it. But I want to say congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I think this county council is very proud of you. And they didn't know I was going to do this tonight. So, but how appropriate, gentlemen, for it to be, you know. Women's month. At least it's not diapers month because, you know, we had one of those a while back and I couldn't figure that out. But anyway, this is great stuff.

» And congratulations and thank you for your sacrifice to our country to serve. And thank you for your sacrifice that you give. Sometimes it's battlefields up here, folks. But thank you so much. Mr. Jones, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Any other discussion on Women's History Month? Shout out to all the women in everybody's life. And my wife, who cut my hair this morning and has been cutting it since COVID and hates doing it but does it anyway. It does. It does look good. It's so cheap. That's not a hard job. I bet. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. She cuts my bang very well. My bang. With that, we'll go for a vote. All those in favor of declaring March as Women's History Month in Kershaw County, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr.

» Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel. That was for Mr. D. Chairwoman Gwynn, if I may, I may say hello to my beautiful bride who is in the audience who is rarely, if ever, here. Hello, dear. And can I have the ladies, if you'll join me in the dais to take a photo. If you're a lady here tonight, please join me in the dais to take a picture with us. I guess we're supposed to stand all back here. I think we're supposed to stand all back here. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're just standing all back here. No, no, you do this for the ladies. You do this for the ladies. That's very nice. You're for the ladies. Guys, guys, sit down. This is the ladies. We're standing at attention. Come on over here. Hey, Mayor. How are the mayors? Doing well, thank you. It would make sense.

» As long as it takes you to get ready. All right. All right. Miles, everyone. You welcome our mayor. Ladies, thank y'all. You read that one, right? Thank you, gentlemen. That really wasn't supposed to be about me, but I appreciate it. All right. Moving on to item number six, public comments. We have 20 speakers tonight. All right. I'm going to quickly go over the public comment guidelines. Public comment is an opportunity for members of the public to share information with council. It is not a time for debate or questions and answers from council. It's a time for council to receive input. It's not a time for council response. In short, during public comment, council will listen to public comment, but not comment on public comments.

» Offensive and inappropriate comments will not be tolerated. If a group would like to speak to council, we request that a spokesperson be selected and that this person indicate the group he or she is representing on the sign-up sheet. Public comment is a time to discuss issues. Public comment period is limited to five minutes maximum allowed per individual speaker. And we will have a timer on the screen for you. I do not like cutting people off, but I will. Public comments to council as an agenda item shall continue uninterrupted and be live streamed by audio and video when available until public comments agenda item is finished or concluded. Our first speaker tonight is Rick Detweiler. Hi, Rick. How are you? I'm fine, Madam Chair. Thank you so much.

» And thank you for your service here and to our country. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate it very much. I'm here today to speak on behalf of the Watery Valley Preservation Group, which is a 501c3 in-organization. And one of the hardest things that I will ever do in my life as a lawyer is to shut up and cede the rest of my time to my good friend and neighbor, Renee Castro. Thank you. Mr. Detweiler, can you tell me the group again? Watery Valley Conservation District. Watery Valley Preservation. Preservation. And it is a 501c3 organization in-organization. Okay. Thank you, sir. All right. Thank you, Rick. Mr. Benet Castro. Thank you. Good evening, members of county council. We are here to address some points of concern related to the COG's proposal for the widening of Highway 521.

» We realize that the public portion of this council meeting does not allow for discussion with the council. Therefore, our goal is to make you aware of these points in the hope that you will actively advocate for the citizens of Kershaw County by challenging members of the COG to explain their actions and hopefully reverse course on this project. What we have pieced together so far causes us great concern. At the January 23rd council meeting, it was stated that 521 expansion is not a done deal and that COG was just doing a feasibility study. But a feasibility study means that a decision was made and the study is to determine how to do it. There was never any determination of the need to expand 521.

» It is our belief that the proposal to expand 521 is motivated more by outside political interest than by demonstrated need or objective analysis. In October 2023, we were told by a member of COG that there was nothing going on related to 521 expansion. However, we have learned from reviewing minutes of core board meetings that a feasibility study was approved in early 2023. The plan for that study had been supposedly posted for public comment, but we have seen no evidence of any public notice. We have been requesting COG board minutes and other documents related to widening 521, but we have been stonewalled and have had to resort to Freedom of Information Act requests to obtain them.

» Why has the public been excluded from this process? Why aren't the interests of Kershaw County related to the proposed 521 expansion being represented at COG? We have located and reviewed a document entitled U.S. 521 Transportation Improvement Program, Statewide Transportation Improvement Program Transmittal. According to that document, the plans for a 521 widening feasibility study had been posted publicly from April to May 2023. Why haven't the citizens of Kershaw County seen or heard of this public notice? In addition, the document states there were no comments to the public posting.

» Why hasn't been discussed this discussed here at publicly at County Council? How could something as impactful as widening 521, if it really was made public in a conspicuous enough manner, not raise any public comment? Why didn't that surprise anyone on COG? Why didn't any COG member question it? Why didn't any members of County Council question it? The narrative section of that same TIP document states, and I quote, 521 has inadequate shoulders and minimal turn lanes, end quote. These are the only potential concerns raised with 521 in that document.

» What data and analysis are there to support that these are actual problems rather than just opinions? How does this translate to necessitating widening 521 to four lanes? These points are similar to those raised in 2014, but those 2014 COG documents, those issues were to be addressed by remediation within the right-of-way. No widening to four lanes was actually required. Why is widening being proposed now? The current document also states that widening 521 would somehow improve safety and travel time. What analysis and data is this based on? No analysis or data is provided in that document.

» Why is COG secretly pushing a project of this size, destructive impact, and cost with no supporting data or analysis? One of you stated at the January 23rd Council meeting that the feasibility study will analyze traffic data to determine if there is a problem with 521. But in referring to three proposed feasibility studies in those COG minutes from early 2023, the 521 study is characterized very differently than the other two feasibility studies. 521 study was described in his evaluation of options for 521. Essentially, it was a foregone conclusion that widening or some other major modification will be pursued. It was also stated in those COG board minutes that funds for the project have already been guaranteed by the Infrastructure Bank.

» So much for the project not being a foregone conclusion. As mentioned in the same COG board minutes from early 2023, state funding for 521 expansion has been guaranteed by the Transportation Infrastructure Bank. But in response to a FOIA request that we put in several weeks ago, the South Carolina Infrastructure Bank stated in writing, I quote, the bank does not have any documents responsive to the FOIA request. In fact, the bank does not have any information or knowledge related to the widening of U.S. 521 to four lanes or other significant alteration of U.S. 521 between the city of Sumter and the city of Camden, end quote.

» So what inside information does the COG have that isn't being shared with us? On January 23rd, we presented the council with a petition from over 250 concerned citizens opposed to the widening of 521. The room was packed with county residents who objected to the project. We had half a dozen citizens speak, pointed out the enormous negative impact the project would have on the environment, on our communities, on local historic sites, and on the already uncontrolled growth of Kershaw County. Not one person, not even a member of this council. Just a minute, Mr. Castro. Yes, Mr. Jones. Time. Okay, Mr. Detwire, your time is up. The next speaker is Renee Castro, which you are Renee Castro. I'm going to allow you to continue. This is a very unique situation. Mr.

» DeBose, does that violate any part of our rules? Okay. It does not. Okay. All right. You're the chair of the meeting. Can you start the timer? All right, Mr. Castro. Thank you. And your time starts now. I appreciate that. So no one argued that 521 actually needed to be widened to four lanes. Since we prepared these remarks for you today, we actually did receive a response to our FOIA request from COG late this afternoon, around 3 o'clock, about 24 documents, several hundred pages. We tried to get through as much of them as we could. Two important things were noted so far, although we still want to do more analysis. Nowhere in the documents that we received from COG responsive to our FOIA request was any analysis of need done for the widening of 521.

» There's no data presented, there's no data presented, traffic issue, safety issue, nothing related to an actual, an analytical data-driven need we need to widen 521. Multiple documents, though, did measure when they referred to 521 as widening 521. And this is important because when we discussed this on the 23rd, some folks said, let's just see the feasibility study readout, they're going to analyze traffic data. Well, no, it's all about widening 521. That's what the documents that we receive today say. It's important to realize that all anyone had to do was call up a friend on the COG and say, hey, Mr. and Mrs. COG person, you know, these folks from Watery Valley Preservation are here with their pitchforks and torches all up in our business.

» Can you just send us your analysis data suggesting 521 needs to be widened? That's all we needed on the 23rd. That's all anybody's had to do to now. We haven't received that. We didn't even get it today as part of the FOIA request. We're assuming that does not exist. So, respectfully, some of the comments raised on the 23rd suggesting, hey, let's just let the feasibility study go. It's not a foregone conclusion. They will look at traffic and data and da-da-da-da-da. Based on what we know today, unless the COG is withholding documents, respectfully, and I realize you were giving your colleagues on the COG, you know, the benefit of the doubt, those comments don't hold anymore. I don't see how you can objectively continue to support this process that the COG is running.

» So, here's where we are. We have a project that would cause huge destruction in Kershaw County, environmental impact, private property, farms, historic sites, all sorts of destruction. Enormous cost, hundreds of millions of dollars. No need has been substantiated by Kershaw, by Sumter, by the COG, by anybody, as far as we can tell, based on a FOIA request. And there's no benefit to Kershaw County or to Sumter County. Even Sumter hasn't explained why there's actually a need for this or a benefit. So, what we ask you to do, based on all of this, is to please adopt the resolution that we have proposed and that is on the agenda for discussion later tonight. But more importantly, we ask you to please help us in engaging with the COG to understand what is going on.

» We're not trying to be difficult here. Just explain to us why this project is needed based on everything that we know. And if not, we need your help in getting COG to reverse its course on this project. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Castro. The next speaker is Marty Daniels. Hi, Marty. Can you hear me? Is that all right? Yes, ma'am. We have good news to share. And we need your help. We've created a new organization, Watery Valley Preservation, WVP. It will be a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Our mission, and we need your help, is to preserve this rural 30,000-acre part of southern Kershaw County, west of the river, east to Lee County, south to the Sumter County line. There are forests, farms, wetlands, and river-bottom swamps with giant ancient trees like the Congaree Swamp.

» The Watery Valley has miles of undisturbed habitat and wildlife corridors, nesting eagles, small cats, and big cats, no kidding, even bear sightings. There are tens of thousands of shorebirds and waterfowl nesting right next to 521, egrets, herons, great flights of ibis, mute swans, and wood storks. Some farms produce food and plants for our farmers' market, a huge contribution to the local food supply. We're in the Kawasee Basin, the green heart of South Carolina. We're in the Coastal Conservation League's area, all the way to the fall line of Camden. We have conservation easements with the Congaree Land Trust, Ducks Unlimited, and advocacy from the Nature Conservancy. Everyone needs to see just how valuable this big green area is. We need your help.

» Historic towns like Camden that are acreed by big rural areas are well-positioned for the future. Heritage tourism, hospitality, commerce, agriculture, food production, country bicycling, river recreation. Camden is surrounded by others on the other three sides by commercial and housing developments. Kershaw County lost 2,000 acres of farmland last year. We need your help. Watery Valley Preservation will promote conservation, education, conservation easements, and collaboration with state and national groups. We need to send a message to the COG. Go back. Do a real, honest transportation study. We need your help. We know you know that something is way off on the COG's rush to expand 521.

» We hope you are as alarmed as we are about the secrecy, the no-see-in-public comment period, and the obsessive focus on 4 Lane. We all know that 4 Lane really means eight lanes by the time it is built out, and then come the dollar stores, fast food, and strip malls. To get to the truth, we've engaged a nationally known transportation expert for an independent study. We already know two lanes are sufficient. Watery Valley Preservation is going to enlist a lot of allies. We need your help. We're talking with people statewide and nationally, the Coastal Conservation League, South Carolina Environmental Law Project, Congaree Land Trust, Kawasee Basin, Ducks Unlimited, Conservation Voters, South Carolina State Historic Preservation, archaeologists, local churches, sportsmen and women.

» Their eyes are going to be on what we do here and what you do. What is at stake is whether we roll over to an invasive freeway that opens uncontrolled population growth, or we work together. We push ahead on conservation easements, and you make responsible growth a priority with new rules on housing developments, setbacks, agricultural overlays, service boundaries. Our district needs a change, too, our district. We need a representative. We need someone who represents us all, who will come and talk with us, who will listen, who will answer the phone, who will return our calls. We need you to be as alarmed as we are about the Cogs rush to four lane. A vote for the resolution tonight is a vote that says, whoa, we oppose jumping right to four lane without due process.

» It's a vote that says secrecy is not okay. It's a vote that says, from all we've heard, Cog, you requested a four lane plan. First, we should see a traffic study to see if there's a problem, and then SCDOT should come up with the recommendations, not the Cog. It's your response to us citizens in good faith that you'll push for transparency and truth. County Council, we need your help. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Daniels. The next speaker is Andrew Whitaker. Hi, Andrew. Hi, Katie. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and congratulations on your award this evening. And thank you, Kershaw County Council, for tonight's third reading of the Kershaw County Litter Ordinance. We have, as you know very well, a huge roadside and property litter dumping problem here in our beautiful Kershaw County.

» I know, as I remove it from our property and road multiple times a week, every week of the year, for the last four years. As you all know, when faced with a problem, the definition of ineffectiveness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We see and know of the Kershaw County Council's improved efforts to attack our county litter problem for the full benefit enjoyment of all 60-plus thousand Kershaw County residents. And this is via a multi-point plan, a solution for a multi-point problem. First is the community service pickup service that our good volunteers all do every year, every month.

» Second, the increased removal of the Kershaw County Council initiated by getting South Carolina Department of Transportation to add increased removal of roadside rubbish. Third, the tools and empowerment and equipment for code and law enforcement. And four, education programs. That's for another day. We see community service volunteers continuing to do very heavy lifting. However, given the large amount of trash on roadsides and property in Kershaw County, that by itself isn't enough to fix the problem. We see the Kershaw County-led getting SCDOT to hire the additional contractors to increase the amount of roadside removal. And this is also a very good step, but also by itself isn't enough to fix the problem.

» We see Kershaw County Council and the Kershaw County Sheriff's Office recruitment now underway for a litter officer and team for code and law enforcement, empowered by tools and equipment in order to be effective. This, too, is another strong step, but that by itself also isn't enough to fix the problem. What we don't have yet in Kershaw County, critically for Kershaw County, is the ability of one missing key tool, and that is deterrence to only the litter lawbreakers responsible and to hold them accountable. We see to the north and to the south and to the west of us, in North Carolina, $250 fine, eight hours community service pickup, Georgia, $1,000 fine, plus one year in jail.

» Tennessee, $50 fine, 30 days in jail, 40 hours of community service pickup, Virginia, $500 and or one year in jail, Alabama, $500, Florida, $150. We note these fellow southern states have established their respective states' rights to be litter-free. They have also set the precedent of establishing the fines that are considered acceptable and not excessive at the state level and not at the federal level or at the congressional level. It's worth noting, the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution was ratified as a check on federal power and on Congress, and not on states' rights to decide for themselves what it is they want to do.

» Last, and by no means least, for all 60,000 Kershaw County residents, full benefit and enjoyment of all our county has to offer in our beautiful rural outdoors, we ask that in Kershaw County, we add deterrents to community service, we add independent contractors, increased removal, and to code and law enforcement to tackle our multifaceted trash problem with a multi-point plan solution. In Kershaw County, commit a litter crime, and you have pickup time, and you pay the fine. Let's all clean up Kershaw County. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Whitaker. The next speaker tonight is Nicola Garcia. Did I say your name right, ma'am? Yes, you did. Hi. I'm very impressed. Good evening, and thank you for letting me speak tonight.

» I am here to support the changes that Kershaw County Council is proposing for the county's litter law ordinance. I actually find it extremely embarrassing that our county is so riddled with litter and that as soon as we clean it up, it gets trashed again extremely quickly. It is extremely discouraging to all of us who are trying to help, and it does not look very good for all the new tourists who are exploring our area. The present fine of $25 is not acting as a deterrent. It is not even worth the policeman's time to write anybody up. But if we start fining $250 and then start doing community service hours, they need to be enforced. Once it is enforced, people will talk. Word will spread.

» Maybe the number of people caught littering could start being listed on the crime page of the newspaper, and then hopefully people will think twice about littering. The Clean Community Commission is also working on positive ways to encourage people to clean up. But I want to thank this council for now paying attention to this litter problem and for this new ordinance. We need to send a message loud and clear. If you don't want a fine or to do time, don't do the crime. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Garcia. The next speaker is Wanda Swan. Hi again, Wanda. Good evening, Madam Chairman, members of the County Council, and thank you for your service. Thank you so very much for pursuing a litter control ordinance to prohibit the disposal of litter and solid waste in Kershaw County.

» As one who has served on the Clean Community Commission for several years and have realized that education and enforcement are the keys to combat the litter issue in Kershaw County, I applaud you and your efforts to take the necessary steps to hire a litter control officer and provide the necessary tools to enforce the litter control ordinance. I challenge anyone who objects to the litter control ordinance to join the Kershaw County Clean Commission's litter pickup on Saturday, March 23rd. If they spend a tenth of the time that I've spent over the past six years picking up litter, they will change their minds.

» Because when you look around at the litter, you'll be enlightened, you'll be angered, but once you've been made aware of just how bad the litter problem really is, you will never see the highways the same again. Here's what's at stake. Visitors to our community, like those attending the Carolina Cup, judge communities by their warm hospitality. But they also judge a community by its appearance and what they see. Looking at our roads, do they see a community with pride or do they see one with great apathy? Potential new businesses and industries do the same and ask the question, do I want to be a part of this community? Do I want to raise my children here? This litter ordinance will help remind offenders that our roadways are for transportation, not for refuge and garbage.

» Is it perfect? Maybe not, but it's a great start and goes a long way towards solving a problem that's been around for years, a serious problem in Kershaw County. I'd like to send a strong message that Kershaw County is serious about their litter control. And by the way, you did miss one important state, the state of West Virginia. You don't see any litter in the southern part of West Virginia. Why? Because they have a huge sign that says littering is a $25,000 fine. But you don't see litter anywhere on those roads. It is amazing. It is beautiful. And we're asking for a $250 increase so that we can deter litter. That's a very small price to pay, along with community service. But it will change the minds and the hearts of those that are offending. Thank you so much for your time.

» Thank you, ma'am. The next speaker is Christine Dennis. Hi, Christine. Good evening. Thank you for allowing me to speak to everybody. Move the microphone really close to your mouth so we can hear you good. Thank you. I have lived in this community for 34 months now, and I've probably picked up more than a half a ton of trash since I've lived here. I joined the Kershaw Clean Commission because I am concerned about the environment, and I love living here. And we have beautiful lakes. We have rivers. We talk about the conservation. People aren't going to come here if our roads look like they do right now. And charging someone $25 for littering is not enough. There needs to be ordinances. We need to make sure that people enforce the ordinances.

» And I really think the community service aspect of this will be great. And there are people out there that volunteer with us to clean, but I find that it's getting harder and harder to get volunteers to help us. And we need to change people's behavior so that they don't continue to make this a trashy place. And you have to look at the impact of, like, this trash getting into our waterways, the water that we drink, the tires, just everything. It just, things need to be changed. And I'm really in support of the ordinance to increase the fines and also allow community, put community service. And we definitely need a litter control officer. We need someone to, you know, enforce these policies. And educate people. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Dennis. The next speaker is Jill Wolf. Hi, Jill.

» Thank you, Madam Chair and members of council and administration. I do appreciate all y'all do for our county. I am here also to speak on behalf of the litter ordinance. And I'm not going to go through all of my points because they have already been covered. It's needed. We really need it so bad in our county. And I thank Derek Sheemate for all his countless hours of work on this and research. And looking through some research myself, South Carolina and I believe three other states have the lowest fines and the lowest mandatory service that's required. As Andrew said, a lot of our neighboring states, the fines are twice what we're asking. We do ask for volunteers to help and would love to see y'all on March the 23rd to come and pick up litter if you would like.

» And as everybody said, it just gets harder and harder to get people to help because they say, why? It's going to look just like this next week. It's very disheartening. And I do believe that the increased fines and the mandatory community service will deter some of this. It just needs to be done. We have a beautiful, wonderful county, a beautiful river, lake, and we need to take care of it. Let's get this little ordinance passed and clean up Kershaw County, and let's get our little officer. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Wolf. The next speaker is Tommy Swan. Hi, Tommy. Thank you for letting me present tonight, and I just want to speak briefly on the litter issue, and I applaud your efforts to come up with a good recommendation that's suitable for our county. And it's a great first step.

» But what I want to remind people is the burden is really on the citizens of Kershaw County and neighboring counties. It really begins with you because smallest things like if it's trash, someone throws trash out on your property. It's true you didn't put it there, but as a powerful homeowner, it doesn't take much effort to go out there and pick that trash up. And I'm sure the Clean Community Commission, whenever they get ready to do their litter pickup day, which I encourage everyone to be a part of as a pride of our community initiative, clean up your yard first.

» That would be a tremendous help to this commission who has limited resources, but also challenge you to get involved with the big litter pickup that we have in preparation for the Carolina Cup when we've got so many visitors coming into our county. It's a great opportunity, and it's an educational opportunity. And I can say, as the husband of the lady who used to be in charge of the Clean Community Commission, you see all the effort that goes into it. But once you volunteer to get out there to pick litter up in the highways, you will not be able to pass that particular area where you picked up again without observing the litter that's on the side of the road. And any litter will not be acceptable, and you'll be just as passionate as we are about it.

» So if you complain about the litter, there is a solution. Get involved first and be part of the solution. I appreciate all the efforts that everybody's doing and applaud your continued efforts. The second thing I wanted to talk about was something that's also near and dear to me is the Goodall State Park. We're part of the Friends of Goodall State Park in Kershaw County. We're a 501c3, and the purpose of our organization is to enhance the amenities of Goodall State Park. It's run by South Carolina Parks, Recreation, and Tourism. They have limited resources, and the Friends program is a common program throughout the state of South Carolina where citizens get involved, and they assist the parks with their efforts.

» Particularly noteworthy is right now we're doing a membership drive, and there's more information on that for our Friends of Goodall Facebook group page. But we have an event, Mark your calendars, on April the 27th. It's our first Family Fun Day. There's no admission to the park. You're welcome to join us. We're going to have a lot of exciting things for the kids, for the family. It's just going to be a good time, but it's a chance for us to show what our mission for the Friends of Goodall is all about, what we've accomplished already, and also plans that we have for the future. So as a member of the board of the Friends of Goodall, I invite you all to come. And, again, I applaud and thank you for your efforts and your service to this county through the county council. Thank you.

» Thank you, Mr. Swan. Mr. Swan, can you give that flyer to Mr. Templer, please? And we'll copy it, and we'll make sure everybody gets a copy at the county. Thank you. The next speaker is Rob Brown. Hi, Rob. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak this evening, and I'm here on the support of the litter ordinance. We live on 521 and 261, so we get the experience of picking up litter probably once a week out there. And it is very interesting. It reminds me of the joke of the South Carolina coach. It said, this state must have the cleanest cars in the country because all the trash is along the road. So that's a little bit of truth in that. It just really destroys the community. I gave Andrew credit. I saw him the other day. He was out there picking up this trash along his road.

» We pick it up along. But I will tell you the other thing. Anybody that's been on 521 or 261 picking up trash, it's not the easiest or safest thing to do. That's for sure. But I believe the whole idea of community service makes the difference. The fine is one thing, but community service, getting them out there and having their friends see them out there picking it up is a big difference. And so I think that's just so important. As you might know, I've got some investments downtown. When I'm walking around downtown, I make a point of picking up any litter that I see and put it. We have plenty of trash cans. There's no reason that you can't put it in the trash can.

» But it's amazing when I'm walking with people, other business people or whoever, when I'm picking it up, all of a sudden they're picking it up as well. Same sort of idea. So I just can't say enough about it's a beautiful community we live in. It's got a great area. It's a shame that the roads look the way they do. But I think y'all are making the right decisions, making the right efforts to make it a difference. And I think it will pay huge dividends. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Brown. The next speaker is Joe Menendez. Hi, Joe. Thank you, council members, for the opportunity to talk to you tonight. I'm also in favor of promoting this litter ordinance. So I want to tell you a personal story.

» I live in Elgin on Veterans Row, about a half mile off of where it intersects with Sessions Road. And back in August, well, actually, we pick up trash all the time along that section of road. In fact, we participated last year in the litter pickup, and we plan to do it again this year. But my wife and I picked up 15 bags of trash in a half mile section there. Incredible. But anyhow, last August, August, September time frame, we noticed that there was a bag like the tall kitchen trash bags. It was neatly tied and thrown on the side of the road. And on my way downtown, I stopped the pickup truck and pulled over and picked it up, threw it in the back of the truck. I was on my way to the dump, in fact. And when I got there, I opened a tailgate. I couldn't believe what I was smelling.

» I was like, this is urine. And so I handled it a little bit more carefully and dumped it. Within a couple of days, there was another white bag, neatly tied, human waste. Well, this went on for a couple of weeks, and I called around to figure out who it was that I needed to talk to. I finally got a hold of enforcement. And while I didn't get a hold of enforcement, I couldn't get anybody to call me back. And out of desperation, thanks to Derek Shoemake, my wife contacted him, and he responded immediately. The next day, there was an enforcement officer at my house, very nice lady, total disbelief as to the fact that this was now going on for about two months, every couple of days.

» She came out on two occasions, was kind enough to actually pick up a couple of these bags, so she knew it was no joke. But several of the neighbors, including myself, went out and bought camera equipment to post out on the road, see if we could catch anyone, to no avail. It's hard to do. Saw plenty of deer, but that was it. But it lasted until about Christmastime. That's how long it went on. And then all of a sudden, it stopped. I have my suspicions as to maybe what the circumstances were that people would throw human waste on the side of the road. I don't understand it, but I can understand maybe how it came to be. I'm not going to waste your time by reiterating what so many people have already asked for here, but the carrot is fine.

» We live in a beautiful place, but without enforcement as a deterrent, I just don't see us getting anywhere. And I don't see what the blowback would be to a stronger deterrent to what we have today. We are losing opportunities in our county to attract businesses, to attract residents. I don't want to ramble, so I just wanted to make the point here of what my personal experience has been. I'm looking forward to the next trash pickup day. We've recruited a couple of neighbors. There's about a half a dozen of us that are going to be picking up on this day. And, you know, the goal is to keep our county looking attractive and to hold those people accountable that are doing this.

» I guarantee you the word will spread if they see their buddies out there with the trash blowing out of the pickup trucks or literally just throwing beer bottles or beer cans out of their windows. I guarantee you that it will help to deter these occurrences from happening. Anyhow, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Menendez. The next speaker is Di DeBose. Hi, Di. Sure. Sure. Thank you, everybody, county council. Trash and litter on the four arteries coming into Camden has never been worse. I used to pick up trash on 521 South. The cars come so fast now, I'm afraid to. Birds and other wildlife are eating the plastics and dying. Hopefully, Kershaw County will pass this litter ordinance and thank you wholeheartedly if you do so.

» And kudos to Andrew Whitaker, who has been painstakingly working so hard to improve the way Camden appears. And first impressions mean a great deal when visitors come to seek out our charming, historic equine town. Ma'am, can you state your name for the record, please? Liz Beard. Liz Beard. I'm going to add you to the public comment sheet. Okay. Thank you. I'm definitely for the ordinance for trash. And I think the fine should be the highest it could possibly be so that it'll be effective. I've lived in Camden for 47 years and have been a realtor for 30 years. And I can tell you that when I bring customers into town, they're not just looking at history, horses, and hospitality. They're looking to see the appearance of what properties in the downtown or, you know, in the county look like.

» And I won't say all, of course, but a good number of people have been dissatisfied with what they've seen, which is terribly embarrassing to me because I'm trying to show them around. And one of the worst embarrassments is I sold Andrew and Pam Whitaker a beautiful home on Knights Hill, and never did I think that Andrew would be picking up the trash at least two or three times a week from Walgreens to the cup office. And this is a customer and friends. And they used to have, before the Carolina, the Colonial Cup, the Correctional Institute, used to, facility rather, would send a group and they would clean up the week before a race. But other than that, over the years, it's just gotten worse and worse.

» And there is a sorority, and I'm not sure if they still have their sign up there, that they were supposed to be, this is one of their duties, to pick up trash. I have never seen anyone on that road picking up trash except for Andrew. And for that matter, I drive around town all the time, and I don't see anyone picking up trash. So I think you need to do a little scare tactics or something to make people realize how important this is. And that's all I have to say. Thank you, Ms. Beard. The next speaker is Gregory Fisher. Hi, Gregory. Can you hear me? Last time I messed this up. Good evening, counselors. First, I'd like to thank you for removing the trespassing portions of the previous version of the letter ordinance. Second, this ordinance never defines what constitutes an offense.

» If there are 10 pieces of litter, is that 10 offenses? How long between tickets? Is there ever a reset in the penalties? Because the penalties keep escalating. Third, how does a grocery seat being blown out of grocery bags in the back seat generate a minimum of eight hours away from a family on a weekend? There is simply no justice in this type of punishment for a single piece of litter. We are not talking about people who are deliberately throwing bags of excrement or whatever else. That is a different story, but there's nothing limiting any of this in here. And there's no judgment for an accidental piece of trash versus someone deliberately throwing lots of litter all over someone else's property.

» This community services portion, which the rule even says isn't limited to litter control, so they could be assigned to something else, whatever that may be, is forced conscription and unacceptable. Finally, and this is the worst item, this ordinance still punishes the victim for someone else's crime. Section 5B is very clear that the property owner, the victim, is punished with having to clean up the mess. And if they don't, then joined with Section 7, they can also be issued summonses and punished in violation of this order. This is not only un-American, it is unconscionable. This violates the very core of modern judicial practice, not to mention the freedom that all people are owed. If a person doesn't want a speeding ticket, they can just not speed.

» If they don't want a jaywalking ticket, they use the crosswalks. How is the property owner supposed to avoid being penalized under this law? Do they have to patrol their yard 24-7 looking for trash? Once every day, every week, every month, every year? There are no limiting principles in this ordinance. It is a hammer looking for a nail. This ordinance, as written, is simply a random land tax. And as such, it is unconstitutional. It certainly won't be enforced evenly, as there aren't even enough police in the state, let alone the county, to do so. Combined with the forced conscription, it is a modern form of indentured servitude. I ask that you do the right thing and toss this ordinance in the trash. The goal is to clean up litter.

» There are far better ways to do it that don't enslave the population to accomplish it. I have two minutes left. No one is talking about people who throw trash. I was out two weeks ago, picked up a whole bag of trash, and I'll be out there, again, this coming weekend, picking up more trash. People throw trash. Go after the people who are throwing trash, whole piles of it, or just throwing out your McDonald's bag or whatever else. Nobody disagrees with that. And make the fines more. $25, I agree. I talked to the sheriff two weeks ago, and he says that you've got to raise the fine. I don't have a problem with that for people who are deliberately throwing trash. But you can't punish the victims. That's just not right.

» So I ask that you either rewrite this or start over or do some of the other ideas that will work to actually keep the trash gone in a way. Everyone here passionately wants a beautiful county. I certainly want that, too. I don't want to be out there every weekend picking up trash, but I don't want tickets and fines and then forced community service when I don't pick it up fast enough or whatever that isn't described in this ordinance to meet whatever arbitrary rules are set or promulgated in the future. Let's make something that will actually work and that doesn't punish the victim. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fisher. The next speaker is Jim Steele. Hi, Jim. I moved to Kershaw County in late 2012. So I've been here about 12 years now. I know a lot of people.

» A lot of the people I know litter. But I don't know anybody that's ever been fined. Okay? So what are we doing? Let me read a little bit from South Carolina law that was signed by Governor McMaster. Litter of less than 15 pounds, for example, cigarette butts, food wrappers, beverage containers. A $25 fine to $100 fine and eight hours of community service. The actual fine with assessments and buyouts is $221.88 to $377.50. Litter of less than 15 pounds in an illegal dump site will get you a $50 to $150 fine, 16 hours of community service, and you're made to pick it up. Total fines with assessments and buyouts, $393.75 to $601.25. Illegal dumping of $15 to $500.00 gets you a fine of $200 to $500 in 16 to 32 hours of community service.

» The actual fines with assessments and buyouts, $705 to $1,327.50. Illegal dumping with more than 500 pounds will get you a $500 fine to $1,000 fine, and you must clean it up. Total fines with assessments and buyouts, $1,567.50 to $2,605. Now, if the state of South Carolina thinks that this is punitive enough, why do we need to pass something more punitive? It seems to me like more enthusiastic enforcement would solve the problem based on existing South Carolina law. Now, I've not heard anybody here that's come before this panel that said how many people they've arrested. So, if it's not being enforced, it don't matter what kind of penalty you put on it. So, more enthusiastic enforcement is the answer. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Steele. Right, the next speaker is Julie Strickland.

» And I think this says Julie and Larry Strickland. Is that correct? Hi. Good evening, counsel. Whoops. Yeah, you have to put it very close to your mouth. Let me get it back in the hole. Good evening, counsel. I'm Julie Strickland. This is my husband, Larry. So, I'll be as brief as I can so he can talk. This is concerning the litter ordinance. And some of what I wanted to say has already been discussed, but I'm going to expand on some of it. The old, as was discussed, the old, or the law signed by McMaster, is not being enforced. Not that anybody's mentioned. Not that y'all have mentioned. But I want to say this. I'd like to introduce my family. My family goes back. Larry's family goes back to the very inception of Blaney.

» From our family, many people have arisen as community servants to this county throughout the years. To include my husband and my mother-in-law, who were both with the Kershaw County Clean Community Commission and served very diligently with them. What I see as part of the problem is we are not training our children to get out there and do community service. They are inside. They're playing video games. They are, the parents are allowing that. Parents don't even care about community service. Therefore, children don't. We had our children out in the community for the pontoon classic, cleaning up Lake Watery. We had our children, we need more projects like that. We do not need this ordinance.

» As was stated, if any trash falls in my yard, well, let's just say they'd be coming down the wrong path to get to my yard because it's so far off the road. But that leads me to the question of, with my property being on the border of county maintenance, are you allowed to come to my property and just willy-nilly and look at it? That's eminent domain. How is that? I don't live in an HOA for no reason. I live in the county. I have livestock. I have things that will be found on my property that probably wouldn't even suit this ordinance in order to maintain my livestock. I think the previous law is probably as good as it can get, but it needs to be enforced. I see I don't have much time left. I'm going to let my husband take over. Thank you. Sorry you know my age now. I grew up in Blaney.

» Served on the Clean Community Commission in the 90s with Lansing Brewers. Some of you remember Lansing. We worked hard, river sweep, clean-up days like we have now. Yet, this was in the 90s. Keep America Beautiful was a program we worked with in this county to get started. Slaved over it to get the program going. Recycle centers set up here back in the late 80s and 90s. I'm sure Sammy would remember those. Worked hard and diligent farmer. We got them. There's an expense to maintain them now. We understand that. Is the money going in the right place? I think so, yes. Other programs throughout this last 30 years, there's been the Palmetto Pride that's been mentioned. It's not being enforced. Something told them, why enforce it? Were they putting fuel to a fire? The fire was out there.

» We all see it. Adopt the highway program. What happened with it? That worked. I think we as a county need to look at what can we do, like my wife mentioned, make a difference with our kids. Langston and I, it was during, I think, Steve Kelly was the chairman then, we went in schools to teach the kids. Is that being done now? Are we putting the money in the right place? I don't know the answers. Do we need to rewrite this ordinance to make it more enforceable? Is it still going to teach the kids? We got five kids. Don't think we hadn't littered. How do you enforce it even with your own family? The county as big as we've gotten, over 60,000. Oh, time's up. Appreciate any consideration you can make for us. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Strickland. Right, the next speaker is Krishonda Torres.

» Hi, Krishonda. Good evening, Madam Chair, County Councilmembers. I see we meet yet again. Last time I was here, I said I would be brief, I would be concise, and then I'd be gone. I'm going to do it again. I spoke to you about my concerns with eminent domain, still remains, my concerns with the fact that I don't want to see Kershaw County turned into a big HOA. Otherwise, I would have remained in D.C. where I was being fined $1,100 a year to live in the community that I was living in to be told where and when I could put my trash can. The third thing I told you last time I was here is that I don't want to live in a police state. So I do appreciate the rewrite that has occurred, but my concern is still the fines.

» As Jim Steele mentioned, I'm thinking of the mother whose son accidentally let the piece of paper blow out of the car that she didn't notice because she's got her eyes on the road and she's driving. And now she's getting a ticket for $250 for littering. And by the time the fines are paid, she's now got to pay $705 to $1,327.50 when she's already working two jobs. And now she's got to be taken away from her family even longer to do community service. One of the solutions that I heard continually mentioned, because I do agree with the Watery Reservation community, that we want to have a beautiful county. It's one of the reasons why I moved here from D.C. and retired here. Instead of going back, it's beautiful. Kershaw County is a place that my husband and I are raising our family.

» But one of the solutions is, why don't we enforce the actual law that's already on the books with the fines that are already on the books? Why do we need to add an additional ordinance? As I said, I would be brief, I would be concise, and now I'm going to be gone. Oh, wait. One thing, Katie, go ahead. Sorry, ma'am. Madam Chair. Since it is Women's History Month, happy Women's History Month to you and to all the women in the room. Thank you, Ms. Torres. And to your point, Councilman Jones, you mentioned it, so I'm going to give you a quote. I don't know if you've seen the movie. I have time. Cabrini. But the guy was talking to her about pushing back against all of the things and all of the challenges she ran through in order to do what she did.

» If you haven't seen the movie, I highly suggest it. But he said to her, you would have made an excellent man. And her response was, no, because men could never do what we do. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, Ms. Torres. The next speaker is Gene Gazzara. Hi, Gene. Thank you, and I hope all is well with everybody. So I've been here for about three years. My wife and I, we come from Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Any of you all been to Cape Cod, Massachusetts? It's a very, very beautiful place. And everybody does a pretty good job, or the best job they can, rather, of keeping the place beautiful. It's a tourist attraction, and it's very popular. And as beautiful as it is, there's trash. People are slobs, and there's just trash.

» I recall signs up there from $250, maybe even as high as $1,000, but yet there's still trash. The thing that I hate trash, and I wish this community and all communities were pretty and in order. I really think that education and punishment are necessary, and the punishment should be community service, never mind the money. I mean, I don't care if you charge someone $25 or $100, that's fine and dandy, but if you had first offense, and you put somebody out there for eight hours, and you started doing that on a regular basis, that word would get around quicker than me getting fined $100. My family might know that I got fined $100, but lots of people are going to know if you're standing on the side of the road in an orange suit picking up trash for eight hours because you're a litter bug.

» So, skip the money, go right to that enforcement, allow the police to do that, and the only other thing I would say about that is I don't know the other end of the enforcement if that requires a judge. I don't know if there's court action involved with that, but then the judges have to enforce it, and the reason why I'm pointing that out, I can't tell you how so many times I've been to court for different reasons. We recently had an issue at our place, and we had to go to court three times. They put in an illegal dog kennel. I'm sorry. I'm trying not to embarrass myself by saying I go to court, but the judges are very lenient. You watch one case after another, and nobody gets charged. The dogs are barking. The dogs are barking.

» Poor people can't sleep, and the judge just slaps people on the wrist, and they go away, and the dogs keep barking, and everybody's miserable. You want the trash picked up, you've got to enforce it. Just simply enforce it. Done. Thank you, Mr. Gazzara. The next speaker is Tom Webb III. Hi, Tom. I'm on the Clean Community Commission, too, but I see things a little different. $25,000 fine in West Virginia. It sounds like a police state. I'd rather live somewhere else. Well, maybe it works, but doggone, there are a lot of things that work that we might not want. And as far as the Constitution, supremacy clause in the Constitution says the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and that includes the Bill of Rights and Amendment 8, in which you have excessive fines prohibited.

» And $250 for a cigarette butt is an excessive fine. Nobody could disagree with that. I don't know how West Virginia gets away with it. Anyway, I say that politics comes from your guidance principles, and we're trying to be good Christians here, and it should show up in our politics. Someone asked Jesus one time, how many times should I forgive my brother seven times? Jesus replied, 77 times. In other words, forgive someone when he wants forgiveness. Always forgive if they want forgiveness. But there are times when someone doesn't want forgiveness quite enough, and he just throws trash out the window as he drives along. He might be a full-size human being, but he's immature in some way.

» So we resort to Solomon's words in Proverbs 13, 24, where we get this saying, spare the rod and spoil the child. But it goes a little further than that. It says do it carefully because you don't want to create animosity. And we don't want to create animosity with an ordinance, I don't think. It puts something between the people and the government. The person knows when he's done wrong, and it doesn't take much to bring somebody around sometimes. So it's not what we can do to someone, but what we can do for someone, bring them into the fold with mature, reasonable people. The punishment should fit the crime, I claim, and not so with our proposed litter ordinance. $250 fine, one-size-fits-all, is itself a sin. The Bill of Rights, Amendment 8, prohibits the excessive fines.

» And I hope this litter ordinance fails, and we honor the litter ordinance signed by Governor McMaster. It is careful of property rights, and it's graduated. And if anybody has not seen, it's on palmetterpride.org. Here is the ordinance. I suppose you've all seen it, but maybe not. I have a lot of these copies. If you would like them, you're welcome to them. But there's more to this ordinance than just fines. At one time, it had something in there about an officer could come on your property without permission, look around, see what you got. It was struck. It was taken out in order to get it to pass second reading. But there's still some stuff in here that's pretty egregious. It says here, litter and refuse are the same thing.

» Refuse means collapsed cardboard cartons or boxes, but excluding barrels, wood, tree branches, yard trimmings, wood furniture, or bedding. Nobody cares if you've got bedding, I guess, out in your front yard. But the term refuse also includes non-combustible trash like tin cans. That would include oil cans, aluminum cans, glassware, glassware, that's a vase with flowers in it, and crockery. That's an earthenware flower pot. Why in the world would that be in this ordinance? We're out in the boondocks, way out in the country. You can't have these things. You can't have – this ordinance is telling us what we can and can't have on our property. It stinks. It's a bad ordinance. Get rid of it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Webb. And can you give Mr.

» Templer a copy of the document you brought for us, the Palmetto Pride? Thank you, sir. The next speaker tonight is Steve Lee. Pastor Steve, welcome back. I would like to say that I'm Steve Lee I, following Tom Webb III. And in his honor, I would like to start by reading a poem. I looked up two poems. Tom writes his own. And I actually have to lean on others. But I wanted to read a poem by William Blake about anger. It's called The Poison Tree. I was angry with my friend. I told my wrath, my wrath did end. I was angry with my foe. I told it not. My wrath did grow. And I watered it in fears, night and morning, with tears. And I sunned it with smiles, and with soft, deceitful wiles. And it grew, both day and night, and it bore an apple bright.

» And my foe beheld it shine, and he knew that it was mine. And into my garden stole. And when the night had veiled the pole, and when the night had veiled the pole, in the morning, glad I see my foe outstretched beneath the tree. I've been here a number of times in the past, and have seen angry people. I have a couple of things. I'm not angry about ordinances particularly. I would like to add to that ordinance a special fine for, because I live on a very rural road, where deer hunters are wont to throw carcasses. I would like to see a $1,000 fine added to anyone caught doing that. I live near a bridge overpass over I-20. Councilman Tucker, you probably cross over I-20 on Black River Road.

» And much litter is thrown out of the back of trailers, because the approach on both directions of that bridge is so rough. It just throws your car. And I've watched the trailers, because they used to live in the parsonage right there. And they would bounce over the thing, and litter would just load itself into the yard of the parsonage on the other side. I'm not sure how many tickets have been given with the current ordinances that are in place. But I would agree that if we're going to have an ordinance, it should be fair, it should target the guilty party, and it should be enforced as much as possible. I got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. I didn't argue with the police officer that wrote me the ticket. I simply paid my $25 fine.

» And I was probably 80% more inclined to fasten my seatbelt after that. If I get another one, I probably will always fasten it without my wife reminding me. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you, Mr. Lee. All right, our final speaker tonight is William Robinson. Hi, William. Bring the chair with you. All the gentlemen in their suits this evening. I probably should have stopped by the closet before I came in this evening. Madam Chair and other council members. Mr. Robinson, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Can you, yes, move the microphone higher, yes. Thank you. I'm with the Knights Hill Historic Preservation Board this evening, and wanted to ultimately invite you all to an event that I'll talk about in a minute.

» But first, I wanted to thank you and Councilman Brazel for signing a support letter for a recent grant that we submitted. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that that's going to happen for us. I also want to give you a progress report. I was complaining a little bit in January when I was here about some things that were not happening at our park. And I'm happy to say we've had a meeting with the deputy administrator and the park's executive director, and those things are being addressed, number one. And there's also a new commitment on the table to help us restore our baseball diamond that has been needing for 30-some-odd years, probably. And they began work on that actually today. So we're very, very, very pleased with that.

» And the last thing I want to do is invite you all to our 100th and first community meeting in Knights Hill area. It's our May Day Festival this year. It'll be happening on Saturday, May 11th, which is the Saturday before Mother's Day. We have some Corvettes rolling in from Columbia. We're going to have some horseback riding, DJs, music, fun for everybody, and all kinds of food. So we wanted to invite you all. And I have a flyer for all of the members. And hope to see you on May 11th. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Robinson. Back to the agenda. This concludes our public comment portion of the meeting. We'll move on now to public hearings. Mr. DeBose, can you grab those public hearing sheets, please? We have three public hearings tonight.

» The first public hearing will be on an amended and restated ordinance to create a joint multi-county business park, Lee County and Kershaw County. There is no one signed up for the public hearing. If there's anyone in the audience that would like to come forward and speak on the multi-business park, please do so now. Okay? So I'll open this public hearing and close it with no speakers. The next public hearing item will be an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations, Section 313, Table 3-4. No one signed up for this public hearing. If you do wish to speak at this public hearing, I'll open it now. Please come forward. Okay? No speakers on this public hearing. That public hearing is closed.

» And the third public hearing is on an ordinance of Kershaw County to establish a litter control ordinance, which shall prohibit the unlawful disposal of litter or solid waste in Kershaw County. There are two speakers this evening. And the first speaker is Gene Gazzara. Okay? Mr. Gazzara. Okay? And the next speaker is Tom Webb III. Hello again, Tom. This is a public hearing, and it's on this ordinance specifically. You have 10 minutes. I'm in my old age, so I use notes. I care about private property and individual freedom, and individual freedom is the only kind of freedom there is. I care about these things for my friends and kin and the unincorporated boondocks of Kershaw County and for everybody else.

» But I perceive somebody on council would write off our wonderful freedom and give us rules and regulations instead, rules concerning what ordinary things we can have or have not have, can have or not have on our private property. But let me bring up Holocaust Remembrance Day. We forgot something we should not have forgotten. January 27th, Holocaust Remembrance Day. I knew someone with very different perspective from our councilman writing rules. I knew Philip Silverstein, the rabbi of Beth Shalom Synagogue in North Trenum. He and his family got out of Europe just in time through Belgium. It would have been in the late 30s when Nazism was running rampant.

» He had witnessed the erosion, it could have even been a little bit later, he had witnessed the erosion of freedom for Jews in German-occupied territory. The Jews were law-abiding people, and they obeyed the changing laws until it was too late. I want to say that again. The Jews were law-abiding people, and they obeyed the changing laws until it was too late. Then came the Holocaust. So Philip Silverstein came to America and joined our military to fight the Nazis. It was especially dangerous for a Jew, but he came through it all right and died in the veterans' hospital several years ago. He was really old. And in my opinion, he was a hero among heroes. He told me one time that private property was the root of civilization, and gun ownership was the root of private property.

» I'll say that again. He joined the National Rifle Association, lending his support, even though he didn't own a gun. So it's good we have our Second Amendment back, where it ought to be, and Rabbi Silverstein would be proud. But this litter ordinance we've been talking about seems to have no regard for private property. I don't know what more to say about it. Private property is mentioned twice in it. Well, maybe three times, but twice where it might matter. And I don't know how they're going to consider they won't have a litter officer come on your property anymore. That's been struck. How are they going to enforce it? How are they going to enforce anything? Anybody can just drive down the road and throw something out.

» The fellow that spoke about finding human excrement in a bag, time after time after time, couldn't catch who it was. It's so easy. If you've got something you want to throw out, just a look in the rearview mirror and toss it, and nobody knows any better. I don't know how you can enforce it. I don't think you really can. Somebody's just going to have to pick it up. I guess it'll be volunteers, I hope. There'll be that many volunteers. I know it's hard to get volunteers, but I thought of something that I'll run by you very quick. The county could start it off and then turn it over to business to get rid of beer bottles, for instance. Beer bottles and the trash on the side of the road could offer two or three cents for a beer bottle.

» And it could come out of taxpayers' money funding to begin with, but then maybe get businesses to come forward. And a lot of businesses, they could do it, and it would get the beer bottles off the side of the road. But it could apply to bags of trash that a person walking the road, picking up trash, picking up trash, when they get a trash bag full, they might get a dollar for it. But the intention is for them to give that money, not to themselves, but to a good cause. There are good causes out there. I see frowns, people thinking it over. I hope you think it over. I think it would help. There are good people in Kershaw County. There really are good people. They just need a little bit of a nudge for them to get out and pick up litter.

» And if they knew that the litter that they were picking up, a bag of trash, would bring a dollar or two or three for a full 25-pound bag of trash, they might be inclined to do it, even though the money would not go in their pocket. It would go to whatever good organization, elementary organization there is, that they would want to contribute it to. Anyway, I've said about enough. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Webb. And did Mr. Gazzara come back in the room? Is he here? Okay. That concludes the public hearing sign-up. If there's anyone else that would like to speak at the public hearing, please approach the podium now. Yes, ma'am? Please come forward and state your name for the record. Lynn Conto. I'm all for no trash on the side of the road.

» The problem I have is I live across, I have a house, a farm across from Camphor Lumber Company, and there may be 30 to 50 trucks that come through there. And they have a trash can that's located where the trucks come. And when it gets full, it overflows. And when it overflows, it blows onto my property. It blows in the ditch, into the field. And my question, I guess then, is am I the one that's going to be penalized for someone else's trash? Because I work all day. I work at schools. I have no control over when the trash comes in my yard. Do I need to set up a camera? The property line is on the other side of the ditch. There's no markers of where the property line is.

» How do you determine who's going to be penalized based on the property line? And maybe these are questions you've already answered, and I missed that part. But I guarantee you, every other day, there's typically some kind of a trash that blows into my yard. If not my yard, the yard of the man that owns the land next to me. So please, when you're making considerations, please don't find me for somebody else's trash. I'd be really upset about that. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Canto. How to enforce whose trash it was along? Correct. So the provision that has been referenced, I believe, twice about where property, if litter is on property more than 30 days, that is verbatim from South Carolina law. There's nothing we can do to change that.

» That's a function of state law that if litter is on a place for more than 30 days, it's the responsibility of the owner. What we have done in our ordinance is say that basically the owner has to clean that up. And, you know, after 30 days, it falls on the owner. That's all in state law. What we took out of our ordinance is any provision that sets, like, you know, the penalty structure that you're talking about. So, and again, I can, we'll talk more when it goes to discussion, but, you know, this ordinance is not fining property owners for not picking up. In fact, it does the opposite, because right now under state law, it just says if stuff's on your property more than 30 days, you're guilty of the state law. Ours actually says after 30 days, you can have an opportunity to clean it up.

» It specifically prohibits, the way it's written would specifically prohibit just coming out and fining someone that's on their property after 30 days. State law doesn't do that. So, it's actually making it a little, it's actually putting in more protections. We cannot change the fact that under South Carolina law, if litter is on your property more than 30 days, state law says it's your responsibility. What we can do is mitigate the penalty. I have a question, if I may, Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Drens. Mr. Shoemake, under this mandatory state law, how many times has that been enforced in Crusoe County in the last three years? Well, I mean, I'm not, on that provision, probably never, and I suspect it probably never would be.

» But, when you're doing an ordinance like this that brings in state law, you want to make sure that you're clear that, again, these fines, a property owner can't be fined out of the gate after, on day 31. And that's, that's what I wanted to make sure, with the ordinance, that you couldn't find a property owner after day 31. It would probably, initially, need a complaint to even go up there and investigate. Correct. This is a roadside litter ordinance, but we can't just ignore state law, unfortunately. Sure. Exactly. And I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you, Councilman. And I have, and I'll wait until we get to the ordinance, but I have some other things I want to say as well. Thank you. Okay. Real quick. Thank you, Mr. Drens. Mr. Tomlinson. Yes, Mr. Brazel.

» At the end of the day, wouldn't it help her in her situation? If she has someone else's trash blown on your property, ma'am, this ordinance would actually give you better leverage to reach out to code enforcement here with the county and have that addressed with the property owner, with the person who's infringing upon your rights. That's the way I read it, Mr. Shumai, am I right? Yeah, in fact, I'm glad you brought that up because, actually, if you look at section, to your point, Councilman Brazel, if you look at section 7C, 7B obviously codifies what all ordinances do, which is say sworn law enforcement officers can enforce it. 7C says any person reasonably believed to have violated the provisions upon probable cause may be issued a summons.

» That would allow non-law enforcement officers to go to code enforcement, and we don't have a – this is step one, getting an ordinance. We don't have an official mechanism because we never had this statute, but this allows a citizen to go to code enforcement, show probable cause, and then they could assist them in getting a summons issued. Now, we'd have to, you know, clean up that process because we don't have the ordinance to enable it now, but you're exactly right. This statute actually would allow someone like Ms. Conto to make a complaint and then make that probable cause showing. It doesn't have to be just a code enforcement official. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Right, this concludes the public hearing on this ordinance. Right, up to item number eight, approval of minutes.

» This is the regularly scheduled council meeting for Tuesday, February 27th. Is there a motion regarding these minutes? We'll make a motion. We'll approve the minutes from last meeting. Okay. Mr. Tucker makes the motion to approve. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Shoemake. Any discussion? Any updates? Again, Ms. Parler, thank you. Very good job. I will be recusing myself from this vote because I was absent. And all those in favor of approving the Tuesday, February 27th, 2024 minutes, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel. Those minutes are approved. Ms. Parler will put them on the website. Right, item number nine, ordinance. Third reading of an amendment. Hello? Can you hear me? Okay.

» Third reading of an amendment and a restated ordinance to create a joint multi-county business park with Lee County. This multi-county business park to be comprised of property located in Lee County and Kershaw County and established pursuant to South Carolina Code of Laws of 1976, Section 4-1-170. Is there a motion at this time on this third reading of this ordinance? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion to approve the joint multi-county business park with Lee County. Okay. Mr. Tucker makes a motion to approve third reading. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. Into discussion. Mr. DuBose, have there been any updates or changes? No updates and changes since the last readings. I believe it, well, it might be on this reading. It might have been second reading.

» I think one of the property descriptions was updated in the list of properties. That was the last thing. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Tucker? I'm good. Thank you so very much, Madam Chair. Okay. All those in favor of the third reading of amended and restated ordinance to create a joint multi-county business park with Lee County, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Braswell. Next ordinance. Second reading. Kershaw County Planning and Zoning Commission, request for a text amendment by Kershaw County, case 24-5. I would make the- Do you want to make a motion? Yeah, I was just going to read the- I would make a motion that we adopt this on second reading. Okay.

» Motion to adopt this text amendment by Mr. Shoemake. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Braswell. And Mr. Shoemake, you have the floor for discussion. Yes, Madam Chair, thank you. This is an amendment, we talked about it last time, but just very briefly, it gives some clerical fixes to our zoning table and makes it clear about the residential density being 4.35, 6.71 applying to apartments. And it basically just, it makes that clarification. And I discussed that in the last meeting, but that's what it does if anybody has any questions. Okay, thank you. Mr. Braswell, anything? Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Shoemake, I want to thank you for working so hard on this planning and zoning regulation. We needed it. We needed to decrease our density.

» And you really took that on and made it happen. I just want to quickly, I wasn't here at the last meeting on first reading, so I definitely agree with lowering the density and I'm actually going to support the second reading and the third reading. However, I do feel like we failed to get some things right on the first time we sent this through council and once we adopted it. Unfortunately, there was a constituent who had a project at planning and zoning during that time frame. And because we had the errors in the ordinance, his project was disapproved, then approved, then disapproved. He kind of got caught in the middle of us going back on forth of this clerical issue. So we had told the citizen a specific max density and then we changed it.

» Then we told him we would honor it and then we, in fact, didn't. So I'm glad that we're making this update. It was definitely needed. However, I do not think the way the constituent project was handled, I disagree with the way that was handled. Again, I'm glad we're correcting it. I'm going to support it. And unfortunately, though, the constituent got caught in the middle of us determining whether it was clear or not. And I think when that happens, this council or all of us, we kind of owe it to the constituents to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially when the project was already at planning and zoning while we were making those changes to the ordinance. So it's not as if this constituent found a loophole and then tried to get one by us. That's just not how I see what happened.

» So I just wanted to say that. I'll continue to advocate for that constituent. And I'm not sure where that project is. I'm sure planning and zoning knows. But thank you for the update. And again, thank you overall, the taking the whole ordinance under your wing and lowering the density. That was much needed. Thank you. And I'm just I will say, I mean, I don't want to get into a specific, but obviously you and I have spoken about this. We have some disagreements. I don't think it was unclear. But I also think that we can always, you know, improve. So I do not think this was ambiguous, but I do think we can always improve an ordinance. I have something to say. Yeah. And we have talked about it and we've had good talks about it.

» If it was clear enough, we probably wouldn't need this amendment. So that's where I stand on that. Mr. Jones. I have some comments I want to make. I absolutely disagree with Councilman Derrick Shoemake. And I absolutely do agree with you because I did some research. I support the low density. I absolutely appreciate the hard work he's done. I mean, he has made some serious changes brought before us to slow down some of the explosive growth. And Councilman Shoemake, this council probably couldn't have done it without you. And Mr. Brousel working there with you. However, we did miss the boat on Mitch McGuert.

» We missed it big time because he was absolutely, as you said, told he was approved or disapproved, then went back and told him he was disapproved, then went back and told him he was disapproved. That is just unfair to the citizen. I have to agree with her that when we have a situation like that, guys, we're not trying to get anybody in any trouble. We just want to do the right thing by the citizen. I think he should have been showed the benefit of the doubt on that. And I absolutely supported the low density and still do. However, he was caught in the middle of that, and I do agree with you on that. And I would certainly support any effort that we could make to go back and make good what we pretty much took away. And that's my opinion, and I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

» Jones. And you all may have discussed it on first reading, but just for the public, we are clarifying or adding a max density of 4.35 for townhomes, and just correct me if I misspeak on that, to several different zoning districts in Kershaw County. We've added the word townhome in our notes, and then we've added a sentence that clearly says the maximum density for a single-family residential development project is 4.35 dwellings per acre. And now we're getting apartments, Madam Chair? Apartments? Not townhomes. I think we'll probably be getting apartments. Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the specific project. All right. Anything else? Okay.

» All those in favor of the second reading of this ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations, Section 3.1.3, indicate by raising your hand, and the vote is unanimous. That passes second reading, and that will be on the next meeting for a third reading. Okay. Next ordinance tonight. An ordinance of Kershaw County Council to establish a litter control ordinance which shall prohibit the unlawful disposal of litter or solid waste in Kershaw County and provide enforcement and Pendleton provisions for violations. This is the third reading. Is there a motion at this time? I would make a motion we adopt this ordinance on third reading. Okay. Mr. Shoemake makes the motion to adopt. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker.

» Mr. Shoemake, you have the floor. Yeah. Before we do discussion, there's one amendment I would like to make because I think it clarifies at least one small issue more clerical than anything. So I would make a motion, and I can explain it after I make it, but I would make a motion motion to amend section six A, B, and C. And on each of those, after the sentence that says that must be fined not less than 250, 500, or 750. So after that sentence, we would add the following language, and I've mentioned this to the attorney so he has it as well, but comma, unless the person provides proof that they are financially unable to pay a fine or that they can only pay a reduced fine.

» Um, additionally, I would move to amend section six A to remove the language or term of imprisonment, because that's a, that's a carry over from the state ordinance, but ours does not have imprisonment. So again, to recap, I would move to amend to add, after the fine numbers, a comma, unless the person provides proof that they're financially unable to pay a fine or that they can only pay a reduced fine, and then remove the, or term of imprisonment language in section six A. And I can explain that if I get a second. Second. Okay. Second by Mr. Tucker. Back to you, Mr. Shoemake. Yeah. So as I mentioned last time, state law generally allows judges to reduce a fine or not impose a fine if someone has an inability to pay.

» So I just wanted to make that crystal clear, because there's been some discussion about that, about, you know, the single mom who can't afford the fine. The goal of this is not to put someone into poverty. It's to have someone pay a fair fine. I would actually make the argument that a $50 fine across the board is less equitable than a $250 fine because, which graduates, because a person who has a lot of money can pay that $25 or $25 fine. A person who has a lot of money can pay that $25 fine all day long. This $250 fine is harder for the person with more money, but that person with less money may still get a $25 fine if they can show to the court, which has always been the law, that they have an inability to pay. So that clarifies that.

» And then, again, that or term of imprisonment language just shouldn't have been in there. It was a carryover from the state statute, but this particular ordinance doesn't have a prison penalty in it. Okay. Can you just change the verbiage to instead of not less than $250, not more than $250 for a first defense? Well, because the statutory cap is still $1,000. The whole point of this is to set the minimum fine, not a ceiling. So it's a minimum fine of $250 for a first defense, a minimum fine of $500 for a second, and a minimum fine of $750 for a third. And that's why you add the verbiage so that the judge can have discretion to lower that for the ones that apply and have the qualified, should I say. I have a question. Yes, Mr. Jones. I like the dialogue we have here, guys.

» Who's going to force it? Well, I can talk. I mean, we can talk about that now. I just want to amend this thing, and we can talk about the ordinance at large. If we want to have that discussion now, that's fine. Yes, any discussion on the amendment? Okay. All those in favor of amending Section 6, Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie, to add, you have the written language, correct? Unless the person provides proof that they are financially unable to pay a fine, or they can only pay a reduced fine, and remove the word imprisonment in 6A. Indicate by raising your hand. Okay. That amendment passes. The vote is unanimous. That amendment passes. Okay. And back to the ordinance as a whole. Mr. Jones, you have the floor. Yes. Now, we're back to the ordinance as amended. Okay.

» Again, I want to thank my colleagues for taking the time and putting this together. I think it's no secret that I voted against the first two readings of this, and I hope that got some attention. There was never any discussion of how we were going to enforce it, or could enforce it, or will enforce it. I commend our Clean Community Commission. I mean, they have worked hard, and I know they support this. I want a clear direction, and I'd like to ask if this council feels they're committed to doing a code enforcement letter officer, and that person absolutely report to the commission, giving them monthly reports on what their activity was, and also increasing their budget. Because they've got $3,000, I think, is what they currently have.

» Anyway, those are things that I'd like to see happen if and when this passes. And, you know, I'm going to support this tonight, and I'm supporting because Madam Chair, Jill Wolf asked me to support it a couple of months ago, and I knew all along I was going to support it. But I went back and wanted to make everybody aware, guys, it's incomplete. Where are we going to get the enforcement? I mean, good orders. Let me tell you this, too. I ran the litter control program. No, let me finish for you. Y'all listen to what I'm saying, please. Let me just say this. I ran the litter control program back with those folks who were on the Clean Community Commission, and they were working so hard, and I have never, ever had a constable stop and write somebody a $500 ticket for one cigarette butt.

» It's just, we wouldn't put up with that, or a piece of paper flying out the window. We wouldn't put up with that kind of abuse of the law. However, they would be stopped, and they would be warned. That's the way I ran the department. But, and that was maybe one of many departments I ran because I did such a great job on them. But I hear the fear, and I understand it, but I can assure you this county council will not stand for any abuse of any law that's put on the books, and I know that. And I know Derek Shumake feels the same way, no question about it. He has worked very hard to try to, I think he's modified this every single time we've read it all three times. And do I agree with everything he said? Probably not. Do I think it's a start? Yes.

» Only if you guys are going to commit to giving them a decent budget and giving them an officer. Okay? Otherwise, and as we did when we started back when Keep America Beautiful was active in Palm Metal Pride, you know, we started out strictly warning, strictly warnings, you know, just trying to educate people. We didn't go out there like a Gestapo writing tickets. And I'll tell you what, if any code enforcement writes a ticket for one cigarette butt, they need to be terminated. Okay? We won't have abuse of any kind of power like that. But I have, having had a very successful little control program back in 1985, I think it was 85. Oh, you said you weren't going to mention 1985. Well, I did. It's the best year. Guys, it worked. Let me tell you something. It worked.

» Enforcement worked back then. And enforcement was done sensibly and reasonable. And I hope nobody has any fear of a police state because hiring one letter officer and doing this letter ordinance is not going to create a police state. We wouldn't stand for that up here. I don't think the Clean Community Commission would stand for that either because these, you know, we're all neighbors and we're all friends and we're all allies here. We all want the same thing. Those who support this little ordinance and those who don't support it, we all want the same thing. But anyway, so, having said that, I would hope that one of my colleagues would tell me just how we're going to enforce this when it's on the books and what are your commitments. This is a freebie doing this.

» You know, it's easy to do this and say things. But what about the action behind it when it comes to their budget, when it comes to establishing a code enforcement officer that can do this. And that we'll report to the Clean Community Commission because if they don't report to the Clean Community Commission, I don't know what would happen. And I can assure you, if they have a, if they're being instructed to the Clean Community Commission, if they're not doing their job, they're going to come to us and let us know. Anyway, that's where I'm at. Thank you. If I may. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Tomlinson. Yeah, I'm going to be very brief. Thank you, Mr. Jones. And then Mr. Brazel. Thank you, Councilman Shoemake.

» Thank you, other members of council who's worked really hard on this staff, who's put time in. And I know that Councilman Shoemake specifically has been working on this for the past couple months and really worked to amend to get a law that is, we feel that is best for Kershaw County. I've been happy to vote again and vote for it first rating, second rating, and I'm going to be proud to throw my hand up third rating. I greatly appreciate every member here who's spoken, especially the Clean Community Commission. Everything that you should do, cleanup is very important.

» You know, personally, two of the scenarios that were thrown out tonight, one being you live on a community county road, and, you know, I grew up on a small family farm, still have that family farm, on a major highway, and it also encompasses community roads. And I have little children. I have a six-year-old and an eight-year-old, and I can promise you there are times that things are probably thrown out of my car one day while driving. And guess what? I feel like we're in a better place in Kershaw County with this litter ordinance. Just thank you for all your hard work and appreciate the time for throwing my hand up and to make this a better county. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Basil.

» Just last week, I think I was pulled over for going about seven miles an hour over the speed limit at Edisto Beach, and I got a warning. The sheriff's department doesn't have the wherewithal, nor do they want to ride around looking for problems and problematic situations. To answer Mr. Jones' question, yes. Yeah, I would support a litter officer, and I would support them answering to administration and reporting to the Clean Community Commission. I think that's the proper way to do it. And that's what I meant. Thank you for clarifying that. I'm sick and tired of people trashing up our town. I was pumping gas at the, I think it used to be a kangaroo station, but I'm not sure what it is now in Lugoff.

» I saw a guy, he just drops a candy wrapper out of his truck window, and I said, man, I can't believe that guy just did that. It's the intentional acts that I think are going to get people's attention. We've got a lot going on in the county. The sheriff's office is totally busy. They're not going to be out wreaking havoc on anyone's personal land. I think that's why all this language was struck. If we do nothing, we do nothing, right? We've got to be willing to take this up, talk about it, flesh it all out, figure out what's best for the county, and I'm going to support it tonight. Our highways have been a mess as of late. Lugoff has been a total wreck. Driving down Lachcott Road the other day, it just looked a mess. That's my road. And we are, is where I work as well.

» So we're proud of our community. In all the comments about we should do this, we should do that, we should start things, I did that. My first year on council, we started the watery trash cleanup, and Jill's son, Mason, has taken it over. Thank you, Mason. We picked up 3,500 pounds of trash out of the watery river. Not the lake, the river, in the first year. I said, well, there won't be any trash next year. We won't be able to do this. 2,500 pounds year two, 2,500 pounds year three, and I promise you there'll be 2,500 pounds this coming year. It's unbelievable. A lot of it's unintended, and there's no stopping the unintended problems. But we've got to stand up. We've got to do something. If we do nothing, nothing changes.

» So I'm in full support of this, and it doesn't create a police state. It doesn't create an opportunity for people to come onto your property any more than existed prior to the ordinance. So I'm looking forward to voting for this ordinance. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Broussel. Mr. Tucker, Mr. Shoemaker. You want me to go tell everybody else did? Go ahead. I really don't mind. Thank you, Madam Chair. So you know what I heard that was pretty much the same thing is that we have a problem, a little problem. And I want to thank Ms. Wanda Swan and the team prior to the new Community Clean Commission and also to you, Ms. Jill Wolf, for staying steady. Because you guys have been asking for this for a long time. We tried to do it earlier with giving you a code enforcement officer, a litter officer.

» That didn't go quite as the way we thought it was going to go. And doing nothing is not an answer. What troubles me a little bit is the fact that we have officers that sworn in and has duties to uphold the laws that we write. And we're acting like this ordinance is going to have them bust into our property, in our homes, take all our guns, children, and grandchildren, and put them in a trash can. Officers have discretion every day. You just heard my colleague to my right, Councilman Broussel, said he was seven miles over the speed limit. I never wrote a ticket for seven miles over the speed limit. That was my discretion. You've got to warn it, but you've got to have faith in the system and allow the law enforcement or code enforcement folks to enforce it.

» You can't say it's not going to work if you don't try it. And is it perfect? No. But nothing's perfect. We'll tweak and we'll tweak and we'll adjust until we get it there. So I'm going to fall on the sword tonight on supporting this, as Councilman Thomason said, the first reading, the second reading. And I'm going to throw my hand up for the third reading. And, Mr. Jones, I think when this council funds it properly into the budget, court enforcement, reports back, as all our employees do, back to the administrator, he can make the adjustments to make sure that the Clean Community Commission gets a report periodically, whether that's quarterly, monthly, however he deems necessary to set that up with Ms. Jill. But I think that we're headed in the right direction, and I think Mr.

» Shoemate tried to make it what wouldn't cost us. So let's say that we use the state ordinance. Now, Mr. Bowes, you correct me. I'm not a lawyer. We use the state code, and then let's say me, who don't have any money, can't afford a lawyer. Now I'm going to go to the defender. Y'all know who pays for defenders? Yeah, you do. We do. This ordinance allows us to not have that process in place where we can keep costs down, which costs us back to the taxpayers. So there were several reasons and a lot of discussion, and I want to say to you, Mr. Shoemate, thank you for being considerate and open-minded about everything that everybody brought to you, because we brought you a bucket of bolts, and you somehow got you an ordinance that, to me, makes sense.

» And, like I said, is it perfect? No, but I think it's very workable. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Mr. Shoemaker. Yeah, so thank you for my colleagues that have already spoken on this. I appreciate the support. You know, I went to the litter pickup last year. I'll be there in Elgin this Saturday. I have invited my children to go and then didn't give them the option to decline, and my son came out with his girlfriend. Unless he has a baseball game, he'll be there again this Saturday. So the whole Shoemaker, my wife was a member of the Clean Communities Commission, so the entire Shoemaker family has been picking up litter for years. And I think what so many of the folks said today, you pick up enough litter, I think it starts to harden your resolve on litter crimes.

» I make no bones about the fact that I would be harder on litter if I could. But I was writing something and networking on something that I thought could pass, because that's what compromise is. But personally, I would be much harder. So, but that's where I'm at. But I want to say a couple of things, just if I could very briefly. Some things have been brought up. Enforcement, where Mr. Jones and I agree completely, is this is a beginning. This isn't an end. This isn't a fix. This is the start of something, not the end of something. We as a council have to make a commitment to proper funding, to litter officer.

» I want to really say thank you to two people that I've spoken with recently that have been instrumental in this, and that's Sheriff Bone and Chief Brown, and Chief Andrews as well, the current chief of the Elgin Police Department, and Chief Brown, the former chief. I spoke with those law enforcement officers as I was working on this, and also to several of our folks in the magistrate's office about how this would be best workable. A system like this only works if everybody trusts each other and works together. I have nothing but the deepest trust for the Sheriff Bone and for Chief Andrews, and I have no doubt that any ordinance, however written, would be properly and constitutionally enforced by those police departments. So, there's trust. Any government requires that.

» So, I trust our law enforcement officials. The sheriff told me, and he sent me, I had it here written down on my phone so I could read it, but my phone died, but he sent me that they've actually just hired the litter enforcement officer. They have to go through some training. It's four, five months-ish. Is that about right? And so, that litter officer has been hired. So, that's news as of today. This is a critical first step. As Councilman Brazel noted, this has language that allows probable cause determinations to be made. This would allow us, once this ordinance passes, to develop a system where citizens could lodge complaints, assisted by code enforcement officers.

» So, Councilman Jones, I don't have a great answer for how we enforce this, but what I would say is, without this, I think enforcement becomes almost impossible. We have to have this as a first step. So, I do appreciate your support, and I agree with almost all your concerns, and I appreciate you lodging them. The last two things I want to say is, I want to thank every member of the Clean Community Commission that came and spoke here today, specifically Mr. Whittaker. Almost everything I had on my list to say, Mr. Whittaker said, so I would just ask that you read his comments, because I agree with every single one of them. So, thank you all, and the last thing I would say, for those who spoke against this, I hear you.

» I would ask that you give this time, and I would also ask, most of the people here do. In fact, Mr. Webb, if you're still here, there you are, Mr. Webb. I want to give a special shout-out to Mr. Webb. You and I don't agree on this, but I have never been to a litter pick-up event that you haven't been there. So, I understand that you're putting your money where your mouth is. You think it should be volunteer, and you've been there. So, I appreciate that, and for everyone that does that, March 23rd, this two Saturdays from now, not this Saturday, but next Saturday, it's on my Facebook page. It's all over the Internet, but reach out to me, 803-427-4929. If you can't find information, I will get you in touch with Ms.

» Wolfe, and we will find you a place to pick up, because the more we do and show, as Mr. Whittaker said, because, again, he said everything I was going to say, this is one piece of a multifaceted approach. So, obviously, I'm in support of this. I appreciate everyone that's spoken tonight, both for and against it. This is how government works, and, again, a special thanks to our law enforcement officers and our code enforcement officers, who ultimately have the final say in all this, because they're the ones at discretion. So, thank you, Sheriff. Thank you, Chief Anders, and, of course, our other law enforcement officers as well, but those folks are ones that I spoke to as I built this. So, again, thank you all, and I look forward to voting for this. Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Shumick. Mr.

» Kato is next. Okay, go ahead. And then you, Mr. Jones. Okay, I wanted to respond to something, a comment that was made. You know, for two meetings, I have harped there is no enforcement that we've got to have a literal officer. When were you told that we were going to get the literal officer from the Sheriff's Department today? Today. What time? Was it earlier today? Today, during the meeting. Oh, during the meeting? Yeah. Sheriff, thank you so much. I would, you know, I really mean that. So, no court security for this guy. Mr. Dunn. I mean, I'm just asking because, you know, I wish you would. Thank you. The deputies you see in here tonight are here on overtime. Mm-hmm. These guys aren't scheduled to be here. This is after hours.

» We don't have deputies that we can sprinkle on every problem in the county. We do the best with what we have, and we'll continue doing the best with what we have. We come up with creative ways of doing things. But, yeah, we do, we have hired a litter officer just this week. He actually goes to, goes to the academy tomorrow. So, we're hoping to get him through as quick as we can, get him certified, and he'll be assigned to litter. But I can't sit here and promise you that if something happens and we need to pull him somewhere else, just like these guys, you know, these are court security deputies, we pull him in here. And can I comment on something that you always comment with me on? Bingo, exactly, I get you. And I understand that.

» And that's why I said, how are we going to enforce it? Because you do have a lot of things going on. You do have to pull your people back. I get that. We do, and I think Mr. Webb really nailed it earlier. I mean, this, law enforcement is not going to, we are not the cure for this problem of litter. What it's going to take is, you know, community stepping up and just not accepting, not watching what they do, I personally, you know, it's very seldom are you behind that car that you see throw litter out. Last two that I've personally stopped, one was a child in the back seat throwing it out the window. Parents didn't know. They did not get a ticket. They did not get a ticket. I've got common sense. I'm not going to give a ticket for something like that.

» The other one was someone who was just throwing it out. And before I got him stopped, he threw out two more pieces just trying to get to him. Somebody like that, yeah, he got a ticket. He come to court. At the time, he was able to say, well, I can't do the community service, so I'm going to pay the $15 an hour or whatever it is to, you know, pay for that time. And he paid whatever fine it was and walked out. It was not a big deal to him. So basically, we're not going to be in control of the litter officer. He's going to work for you under your department, correct? Oh, if he's wearing my badge, he works for me. Exactly, and I knew the answer to that, and that's not a trick question. But therein lies the problem. If we have a constable or a – somebody do code – Code enforcement.

» I'm getting there, guys. A code enforcement, you know, they can go out, bags of trash on the road, they can go through the trash on the road, they can collect names, and that's what we did back in 1985. Absolutely. And this one officer is not the only officer working litter in the county. I get that, but you also run a lot of calls every day. Over 35,000 a year, 740 square miles of county. And that's what I'm trying to say. Let's don't fool ourselves. You know, you stay quite busy with the manpower you have. You probably need about four per shift as it stands right now. So I'm just trying to say – I'll accept that if you're giving it out. Well, anyway, I've heard you talk, and we've mentioned that before. But this is my point, guys, and the sheriff's trying to work with us.

» He's going overboard to try to work with us, and I thank you for that. However, he knows, and I know, and he knows, and I know, that he's going to do the best he can. However, we still don't – you know, we need a code enforcement officer that we can assign to the administration and still let the sheriff help as much as he can. I think that would be the best way to go to really aggressively get involved on this. Wouldn't you agree, Sheriff? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would like to see more people assign to letter, no doubt. I think it's a very important thing for the county, and, you know, we do the best we can with what we've got, but more would be better. You do, and let me tell you something. You do a great job. You do a great job.

» And I agree with – I think the point you're making as far as code enforcement, I can't pull code enforcement officers to do any shortages I have anywhere else in the county. They're their own department that answers directly to administration. So, yeah, you're absolutely correct. There's less chance of a person on code enforcement getting pulled than somebody from my department. Our guys wear many hats. Exactly. And gals. I just didn't want to present a mirage out there or something that's not clear. I want to make sure we had just the facts as to how this is going to work. It's just saying we got a little officer. You know, it is what it is. And he is a deputy with the sheriff, and if the sheriff needs to – And I thank you for pointing that out because this is a big problem.

» Nobody seems to have the perfect solution. If we did, there would be littered nowhere in the country. But we don't have a perfect solution, and it's tough to be the one person everybody looks at to solve a problem that's unsolvable with what we currently have. So I appreciate you pointing that out. Well, let me just say this. The blame certainly doesn't go on you. You do everything you can to work with us, and I'll recognize that very quickly. And this was in no way meant to try to embarrass or say, I got you. But I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood what that meant when you said you would – you're hiring a littered officer, you know, just what the commitment was and what the protocol was going to be. We need a code enforcement.

» We're going to take that littered officer for as many times as long as we can get him, but we need a code enforcement that can do nothing but that. Thank you. Question for the sheriff. Mr. Cato's next, and then you, Mr. Brazel. Sorry. I think everything's been said about the ordinance that could be said. I want to thank the Clean Commission to start with. I had a lot of phone calls from you all, and I appreciate y'all's support and what you do. Sheriff, I appreciate you working so hard to try and help us out with this. You know, I spent 15 years at the sheriff's office myself. You never have enough. You'll never have enough. You know that. I know that. You'll never have enough to try and stop DUIs. You'll never have enough to try and stop drugs.

» But you've got to start somewhere, and I appreciate you helping us get started with that. And that's the only way we can curb it. You know, it really starts with us. Because that's where it starts, covering our loads and making sure that we're disposing of our trash properly. There shouldn't be a addition. In reality, we shouldn't have to have a Clean Commission. We shouldn't have to have litter pickups because people shouldn't do it, bottom line. But you can call it laziness, or you can call it irresponsible. You can call it whatever you want to, but most of it starts with the people themselves, and they've got to correct their own actions. But thank you for stepping up and helping us, and I look forward to seeing where this goes. Thanks. Mr. Basil. Yeah, Sheriff Bone.

» So if we enact this ordinance, any of your officers would be able to, if they saw someone blatantly littering, they would be able to write that fine. Is that correct? As I just told you, I've made stops myself. Right. It's very, it doesn't happen often. I'd say probably once a year, you're going to be behind somebody that you're going to see throw something out, and you're going to have the ability to stop him. If we've got a guy that's headed to a hot call, you know, somebody's being hurt, and he's behind somebody that throws out trash, well, then he's not going to be able to stop it then. But when they're routine patrol and see something, it's very infrequent. And I know, Mr. Tucker, when you worked with Highway Patrol, how infrequent it was that you get behind somebody. And Mr.

» Jones, you've worked several years in law enforcement. It just, it doesn't happen often that you're behind. Wouldn't this also apply to the DNR officers, though? Yes, they do enforce the letter. They can enforce this as well. I don't know about the county ordinance. If state does that. They'll write it on a state statute. Yeah, they've got the state statute. They'll write it on a state statute. So, and then if we have a, I feel like the whole litter issue, it's a multi-pronged approach from people getting out and helping, awareness, unfortunately, yeah, fines and penalties. I think it takes all of the above. I think the answer to our question is E, all of the above. It's going to take a little bit of everything. And I'm willing to do my part, and I thank everybody in this room.

» Even the ones that are opposed to the ordinance, I think, are willing to do their part because nobody can say, hey, I think it's great to have bags of trash in the ditch. I appreciate what you do, Lee. Thank you so much, Sheriff. Absolutely. You run the department effectively, efficiently, and all the deputies are great. They do a great job. And thanks for helping us with this. Thank you so much. Sheriff Bone. I was just saying thank you. When deputies write a ticket right now under the state law, where does that money go? Do you know? I don't track a penny the money goes on the tickets. Okay. Mr. Shoemake, do you know? So generally speaking, and correct me if I'm wrong, John, but the state law under uniform code will go to the state. County ordinance tickets can come to the county.

» So, for example, Turbyville was writing speeding tickets under a county ordinance. Some lawyers said that was not right. I was one of those lawyers. And Turbyville ended up having to stop doing that. Okay. And the reason they were doing it is because the speeding ticket money from the county ordinance went to the county. Revenue. Right. The specific litter statute specifically allows counties to enable their own ordinances. So we're allowed to write county ordinance. So the short answer, I think, to your question is the money goes to us as opposed to the state. There may be a sharing provision and all that, but money comes to us that wouldn't otherwise come to us. There's a sharing division with the state statute as well. With the state. Correct.

» But we get a larger share with the local ordinance. We get a larger share with the, correct. Okay. But we do get a share of a blue ticket from the state. And we can use that money to go back into the Clean Community Commission or the, okay, code enforcement. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the sheriff? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Sheriff. Mr. Jones, I wanted to respond to your question about commitment. I am committed to a litter control officer in code enforcement, completely separate from what the sheriff does. I appreciate his efforts and his office efforts to help us tackle this. But I'm still going to be committed to having that litter control officer in code enforcement.

» That way we always have some sort of enforcement mechanism if the sheriff's office gets busy because there are other things. I definitely agree. There are other priorities. Mr. Shoemake, thank you again. So my biggest concern when you presented this was the enforcement piece. And I was reluctant to support it because I thought, okay, we don't need to just write something. We're already not enforcing anything. Like, what's this going to do? It's just another ordinance or it's just another policy. And I'm always against that. But I want to take us back two years when this body did take the first step and approve a litter officer. That was truly the first step in this whole process, to get that litter officer in our budget. We got the litter officer in our budget.

» Unfortunately, they had to be used somewhere else. Because the second piece was always to update this ordinance or to have a local ordinance to go with that litter officer. So I've heard that we've put the cart before the horse. I disagree. The horse was the first litter officer that this body enacted. And we haven't had them. So instead of waiting until July to get the litter control officer in code enforcement with this new budget, I think that it's an appropriate time to tackle the ordinance. It doesn't matter to me which one comes first. They're both going to be, we'll likely, or we're going to advocate for a little control officer in code enforcement and then we have the ordinance to help. They're both needed. Yeah, they're both needed. Which one comes first is not an issue with me.

» We do have to trust the discretion of the officers, code officers, and our deputies. And I think that we do. We trust their discretion on all the other laws. So this one shouldn't be any different. And we also need to support the Clean Community Commission. We appoint people on that commission to be our advisors and to perform a specific function in the county. And when they come to us with a need of something they're dealing with almost daily, I think we owe them the support back and give what they recommend a try because they're out there in the community doing the work for us. So I also want to show support to them because they have said, most of them have said that this is needed. I think what I want to add, though, for the enforcement piece, Mr.

» Templer, this council is, I would like this council to receive a monthly report from code enforcement on citations, the number of citations, the number of citations, and what they're for. And then we can see if we're increasing our citations and if this tool is helping us. And I know that they are very busy with animal control and other issues right now, but they do perform some litter action as well, correct? Correct. Okay. And it's mostly dump sites right now. Okay. So if you'll provide this council with a report monthly on those citations and how many, and then additionally, I would like a member of code enforcement to be at the Clean Community Commission meetings. I think that was a great idea by Mr. Jones. That will help bridge the relationship between the county and the commission.

» With a monthly report. So the monthly report and having a code enforcement be at those meetings. Madam Chair, could I say one quick thing? Yes, Mr. Jones. And you know, guys, and one reason I'm so glad the sheriff got up. It is so unfair for the sheriff to be saying he's going to look at the sheriff that he's going to make one officer a code enforcement. If I was sheriff and I had a litter officer in my crew and I had a bank robber or I had an assault, they're not going to pick up trash. They're going on those calls. And that was my whole point is that it's not fair to say, well, we're going, the sheriff's going to give us a litter officer because we gave him that position. Guys, he's got to run the calls he's got. That's why I think the code enforcement is the best way to go.

» We'll certainly take that. But it would be unfair to say that we could hold him to that. And so thank you for supporting the fact that we need a code enforcement. Yes, absolutely. And I'm sure they're doing the monthly reports. We just need to make sure that they're sitting there with the Clean Community Commission. I don't care if they meet once a month or once every three months. There should be a constable there with them. Yes. I agree with that. And I think that will help keep us all informed up here on our efforts in this ordinance. All right. Any other discussions, questions? Okay. All those in favor of the third reading of an ordinance of Kershaw County Council to establish a litter control ordinance, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous.

» This passes third reading. And we will now work on enforcement from up here. Thank you to everybody who spoke at the public hearing and spoke on public comments. All right. Back to the agenda. Item number 10, resolution. One resolution tonight. A resolution opposing a project to widen US 521. This item was deferred from the January 23rd meeting. And I have those minutes. Mr. Jones, you actually made the motion to approve that resolution. I'm going to ask you at this time if you'll withdraw that motion. Did I make the motion? Yes, sir. You made a motion to approve the resolution on January 23rd. Okay. I don't remember that. Do you remember? Does anybody remember? I don't have my minutes from there. Yeah. I'm getting the minutes. Okay. I mean, I trust that you've done your homework.

» You said I did. I did. But I just don't recall. Well, it says February 13th, though. You want me to put it up? That's incorrect. Okay. It's January's meeting. Do you remember, Councilman Breslin? No, but I can put it up if y'all are unclear on who put it up. All right. Here's the minutes from Tuesday, January 23rd. Resolution. A resolution opposing any plan or project to widen US 521. Chairwoman Katie Gwynn read a resolution of Kershaw County. Council opposing any plan or project to widen US Highway 521 in Kershaw County. See attached resolution. After the reading of the resolution, Vice Chairman Jimmy Jones made a motion to approve the resolution, seconded by Chairwoman Katie Gwynn. Do you want me to withdraw? I'm asking you to, yes.

» For what reason? That specific resolution was deferred to this meeting, and I'm not going to – we don't need to take a vote on it. Yeah. Just need a clarification. Yes. Okay. Okay. You withdraw your motion from January 23rd. Yes. I still don't remember it. Okay. Of course, you were walking me around with the pictures, making people think I was Biden the way you were walking me to the wall. And, gentlemen, in your agenda packets, there is another resolution. So, at this time, I'm going to read that resolution. Mr. Jones, I just wanted to make sure we handled the prior resolution before we introduced this one. No, you're absolutely correct. I just wish I knew about it before I walked in here. Thank you. I actually thought that I made the motion, so I was just going to withdraw it myself.

» Ms. Parler gave me the minutes, and then I saw that that was the way it was. All right. A resolution of Kershaw County Council opposing a plan to widen U.S. Highway 521 to four traffic lanes in Kershaw County south of Interstate Highway 20, whereas U.S. Highway 521 south of Interstate Highway 20 in Kershaw County is presently adequate, and whereas U.S. Highway 521 south of Interstate 20 in Kershaw County does not need to be widened to four traffic lanes, and whereas the widening of U.S. Highway 521 south of Interstate 20 in Kershaw County is not an infrastructure priority of Kershaw County, as there are other areas in Kershaw County with insufficient road infrastructure, and whereas the widening of U.S.

» Highway 521 south of Interstate 20 in Kershaw County is opposed by the constituents living in the area directly impacted by the proposed project, and Kershaw County Council is supportive of those constituents. Now, therefore, be it resolved by Kershaw County Council that Kershaw County Council opposes a project to widen U.S. 521 in Kershaw County south of Interstate 20 to four lanes and request that this project not be pursued. Is there a motion regarding this resolution tonight? I so move. Okay. Mr. Jones with the motion. Is there a second? Okay. I'll second it. And into discussion, Mr. Jones, you have the floor. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's good to see all the folks here from that community.

» I appreciate y'all coming up, the hard work you guys have done, the organization that you have developed. I mean, I think that goes beyond any words that I could put out here. You know, when I ran for this seat 18 years ago, I said I was going to always listen to the people. Well, the people have spoken in my book. The large group of people from that area have come out and said, we don't want it. So, therefore, I'm going to stand by the folks. And I think they brought out some – I was very impressed with some of the material that y'all presented tonight. I was actually kind of taken back at some of the statements, and you deserve better. Simple as that. You deserve better from me. You deserve better from this council. You deserve better from the state officials.

» That's not the way I do business. And, you know, okay, somebody says – let's play devil's advocate. Somebody says, well, you know what? They were wrong with what they said. Well, you know what? If perception is what you said, if it's perception, the perception is reality. You know, and I'm going to ask my colleagues to support this. Stand by you folks. It's a heck of a lot more than the five of you sitting there. I mean, I've talked. I've had phone calls. I've listened to you. I've understood the passion. And I wish I could do more, but all I can do is vote in your favor. I have one vote, okay? You got that. You had it from the very beginning. And I think to vote for this is the right thing.

» We're either going to support you, the people of Kershaw County, or we're going to support the politicians and bureaucrats from Sumter. And that is my position. I'll stand by that, and I can go deeper in it if I have to. Madam Chair, with that, I yield. Okay. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Brazler. If I may. After the first resolution, I asked that it be tabled, and then we deferred it. Largely in part due to concerns with how government works, I reached out to Dennis Cypress, who is extraordinarily nice. He had mentioned that he would come and speak to us. I have not seen him. I want to know more about what's going on at the COG, how projects are prioritized. I see major issues in Kershaw County. Fix our bridges, for goodness sakes. Our bridges are a wreck.

» I have made, oh, I don't know, probably 15 phone calls to DOT asking when US-1 was going to be reopened. They've told me April 1st. I hope that somebody's down there working on it. I hadn't looked. I hadn't checked. But we have major infrastructure issues. The hundreds of millions of dollars that are going towards the potential widening of 521 could be reallocated, could be used in other places. I don't want to have any kind of bad blood with the COG, and Sammy's the chairman of the COG. I want us to all work together, but we do. We need more communication. We have many needs. I think the off-ramp coming off of I-20 is a wreck. People are backed up trying to get off the interstate.

» So since trying to do a little due diligence, I've actually reached out to people that I know in the community, people that aren't here tonight, people that haven't been part of the petition. And they travel at the Sumter. They travel at Daxley-Dazell every day. And they're telling me they don't have any major issues. So with that in mind, I'm going to support this resolution, but I'm going to support it knowing in my heart that I want to work with the COG in any way, shape, or form, to find the best fit for dollars spent in Kershaw County and in the region, and in the Council of Government's region. In good faith, not in bad faith. That's how I want this to be perceived.

» And I want to make that clear, that if work needs to be done to 521, if their study shows that there needs to be turning lanes or something coming off the interstate, for goodness sakes, I'm not a fan of them, but I've even seen roundabouts in places. There's one on 601, I'm not really sure why. I'm not an engineer. I don't know how these things should work, but I want what's best for everyone in Kershaw County as a whole. And when you look at Boykin, Boykin is a special place. You talked about the Kwasi Basin. The Ace Basin was created to hold things as near to natural heritage as possible. I get that. I understand that. I don't think a road destroys that completely, but I think it does potentially harm property.

» So tonight, I will support this resolution, and I hope that we can have a wonderful working relationship with our COG and finding solutions to problems. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brazel. Any other comments? Okay. Yes, Mr. Kato. I would like to say a few things. And some of this probably is not going to be popular with either side, just to be honest with you. I'm very concerned over some of the things that I heard tonight about some of the information that was requested not coming back. That bothers me because I want to see that. I want to see it. Ms. Daniels even mentioned the independent study, the traffic study, that kind of stuff would be great information for me to have to make a decision. And, you know, that's what I would like to see.

» And even though we can vote however we want to, you know, it's up to the state and to the COG or we can't stop it. I would say that I agree with Councilman Brazel that there's a lot of other issues that I think needs to be addressed in the county besides widening 521. I had some phone calls since the last meeting, too, as a matter of fact, from somebody in, from two people in that area that, and they're the reason that I came up with this, with what I'm going to do. And they urged me to think about the situation and remember that, and it's kind of a coincidence, but they reminded me, one of them reminded me that I wasn't an engineer and I'm not, nowhere close. And that there could be other possibilities to help the traffic flow on 521 other than widening it.

» Maybe a turn lane, maybe something. But I'll tell you now, I'm not. I would not be in favor of destroying anybody's farmland because I farm. I wouldn't be in any favor of destroying any church land or personal land. That's not what I'd be in favor of. I would not. And if this was to come back up again, I would probably be in favor if I had this information. So based on the fact that I don't have what I consider proper information, I'm going to abstain from a vote tonight. And that's where I'm going to leave my vote is I'm going to abstain until I can have the proper information. And I urge the COG and I urge the state to provide that information so that we can all look at it and see what they've got in mind, and then we'll know what we're opposing.

» Right now, we don't know what they're really saying because they've provided us nothing. And I think they owe it to the people of Boykin and they owe it to this council to provide that information to us. So I'm really concerned about that. So tonight, I'm going to abstain from a vote until I have the proper information so I can make an educated decision. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Tomlinson and Mr. Jones. I'll be very brief. I wanted to say that I've received multiple phone calls today from a few people sitting in the audience. And I've also, over the past couple of weeks, and I just wanted to put this on the record, have received calls from individuals who live directly along 521, specifically Tunefield Road and other side roads, who are in support of expansion of 521 or turning lanes.

» Me, sitting here on council, I cannot say that I'm in support or I'm not in support. What I am in support of is a study being done. I know if we go, what was it, the 1960s, that 521 was expanded from Sumter County, Kershaw County line into Camden. Is that correct? Does anybody know? I can't answer that. Yeah, before my time as well. But from a brief Google search, you had 261. However, the expansion of 521 from the Kershaw-Sumter County line, this is according to Google, happened between 1962 and 64. And I'm sure there were a lot of people in uproar back then about this. I can't say it's good or bad for Kershaw County. I'm not saying that. But what I will say is I will never say, let's not do a study to see what Kershaw County needs.

» I will be opposing this resolution tonight until we have something concrete. And then we can go forward with that. I think we're putting the cart before the horse. Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. And Mr. Jones. For clarification, Mr. DeBose. As explained, three votes for, three votes against, one abstention. What have we got? Fails. A fail. You don't have a positive. Correct. So therefore, it would fail, correct? Correct. Correct. Okay. Just want to make that clear. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Madam Chair. Any other comments? Yes. Just very briefly. I'm sorry. I'll cut you off. I concur with Councilman Tomlinson. I don't really have much to add other than what he said. Okay. Mr. Tucker? Okay. All right. I have a couple comments.

» So, gentlemen, this new resolution, I took into consideration everyone's comments at the last meeting, including some constituents that are in favor of widening 521. I took the COG completely out of it. I talked to Dennis Cyphers as well, the executive director of the COG. I did want him to come and explain the funding and the way we get the funds and the way they're allocated and the way different projects are processed for our roads. The COG is in the middle of moving right now, so he was unavailable to come tonight. So, you know, he will come. Okay. I will work with Chairman Tucker to get him here to explain that because that's good for the public and all of us sitting up here.

» I talked with other COG members regarding the resolution and this county's concerns, the constituents' concerns here. So, this new resolution I present tonight, you know, it's not, it's completely different than the last one, and I'm here to admit, Chairman Tucker, that that one did come out the gates really strong. Thank you. And I apologize for that because you are the chairman of the COG. Thank you. Thank you. So, this, to me, taking the COG completely out of it, let's not even say that the COG's doing it. Let's say the federal government comes in doing it. The constituents in the area still don't want it. So, the entity that is determining whether it's going to happen or not is really irrelevant at this point.

» The constituents that live there that are going to be directly impacted do not want it. So, I took that, I took every, the Santee Lynch's COG completely out of the resolution. So, I've talked with, gosh, I've talked with the chairman of Sumter County Council, kind of, you know, what I did with the first resolution and where I was going and what I was trying to do and got some good advice from him. What I have to say, I agree with the constituents against widening it to four lanes. It completely changes that south side of Kershaw County, completely. It's not just four lanes. It will be five, six lanes worth of space because there will be a medium, possibly, and increased sides of the road.

» So, a four-lane divided highway running through the south side of the county is not what that area wants. It will completely change the dynamic down there. It will increase growth. It will increase development. There's plenty of studies out there. I brought one the last time this brought up. So, I changed that wording in the resolution even. I changed it to specifically widening to a four-lane divided highway. Not turning lanes, not, you know, different areas that might need a wider shoulder. Specifically talking about four lanes divided highway from south of I-20 all the way to Sumter County. That's what I made this specifically about because that is truly, I think, the issue with the people living in that area.

» They don't want this super highway running through their farms and their neighborhoods or where they live because it's just going to introduce more traffic and more growth. So, I stand by my comments in January about the encouragement of growth in that area. That's an area of the county. People live there because they want to get away from growth and they want land and they want to be on a farm. I also added to the resolution that 521 is not an infrastructure priority. I did that because I've been saying since taking office that Highway 1, Lugoff to Elgin, all the way to Richland County, has got to be addressed. And that is my infrastructure priority in the county right now. So, I added that because I don't want that area of the county to continue to be ignored.

» And I'm not saying that Santee Litch's COG is ignoring them, but the Midland's COG did ignore them. So, that's why I added that paragraph about it's not an infrastructure priority. I don't believe it is. I believe the growth and the congestion and the safety issues, Lugoff, Elgin, all the way to Richland County, are a much higher priority than 521. I never meant in any way to disrespect the COG or our relationship with the COG by the resolution. And I still do not think that taking a stance on this issue is disrespectful in any way. Mr. Tucker and I serve as representatives of this county on the COG and take your voice to the COG. So, me stating my voice here at county council has nothing to do with the work that we're doing over there in other avenues. So, I definitely stand by it.

» It's completely okay to have an opinion about the future of this county, the future of rural Kershaw County, and still be a member of the COG or work with the COG on other things. It's not black and white, like if you take a stance on this issue, the COG is going to be mad. I just don't think that that's a reality. So, a four-lane divided highway forever changes the south side of this county. So, I stand by that. And we have to think about the future. We have to think about the decisions we're making now. And you're absolutely right, Mr. Kato. This doesn't stop it. We're not sitting here deciding whether we're going to do it. We are simply taking a stance with the people that live in that area.

» So, that was the intent of this resolution, to just ask this council to take a stance with me on their behalf. Would you make an amendment to defer? Defer it? Yeah. On the basis that we've had a councilor who said he would have to abstain because he hadn't gotten all the information. I would make a, I'd like to ask you or me, we can make an amendment to defer until he gets all the information that he needs to vote for, I guess. So, he can make a decision? Yeah. Okay. Mr. Jones, you made the motion. So, if you'd like to withdraw it and restate. That's my amendment. Yes, to withdraw it, to defer. Okay. Motion to withdraw, your motion to approve it. At this time. Okay. And to be put back on it. Mr. DeBose, is that accurate? Yeah. Mr. Jones made the motion. He can withdraw it.

» He can certainly make another motion to defer, either indefinitely or to a set time. Okay. No, a set time. And the set time being, how long would it take to get Mr. Cato's information that he needs so he can make a good decision? Um, uh, that's a good question. I mean, we can start working on that immediately. Once the study going to be done, a year and a half? Yeah. Up to two years. Is that it? So, the feasibility study is different than a needs study. I want to defer, I want to defer this. My amendment is to defer this, um, till we have the information to bring it back for Mr. Cato to see what he needs to see to understand it. Mr. Jones, would you be okay with deferment indefinitely? Mr.

» DeBose, is that helpful? Yeah, I mean, if it's deferred, uh, indefinitely, it can certainly be placed back on the agenda at the appropriate time. Okay, then we'll make it. My motion will be to defer amendment. Motion to defer indefinitely. Okay. Um, Mr. Jones makes... With understanding, we provide, try to provide Mr. Cato with the information he needs to understand so he can vote yes or no. Yes, I just, I want to see, I want to see them provide us a study saying that that's what they're proposing is widening 521. That'll be two years for the study. They may, they may come back and say, you know, widening is not in our plans. We just want to put a couple turn lanes at a couple different intersections. That, that, that may be their proposal. So the fees...

» If it's, if, if they come back and say, hey, this is widening 521 and we got to take this person's property and this person's property and, you know, I'm not going to be for that. Madam Chair. Mr. Tucker, you can correct me if I'm wrong. The feasibility request that went to DOT was to widen 521. I'm not sure exactly what the verbiage is, but yes, it's a study to look at, um, as it's been stated, widening, wherever that's, you know, a turn lane, wherever that's four lanes. Um, it is, it is, it is going to have a variety of options in the feasibility study. So the, here's my understanding of the feasibility study. We at the COG asked SCDOT to, um, assess the cost associated with widening 521. We also asked them for a corridor study of 261.

» So, why didn't we ask for a corridor study of 521? Because I, my understanding is the corridor study will bring us back options and recommendations from SCDOT. The feasibility study is asking for the resources and the cost associated with a specific project. Right. And that's what, uh, the, uh, planning and projects and planning committee had requested from the full board. And that's what they approved. Okay. Well, you got to think if you make a four lane highway, you're going to, you're going to take property by eminent domain. There's no question. A question of how much depends on whether or not they put a median in. Depends on how, how, why they make lanes. Right. Which I think is part of the issue that I, well, it is the issue that I have with it is we're not the COG.

» We're not passing on this. We're making, we're, I still think we're, we're going into the, the COG's lane, but beyond that, I'm not an engineer without basically doing exactly what the COG is doing in parallel effort. I don't see how we can say one way or the other. Um, you guys represent us on the COG. You can certainly speak at the COG meetings, but that's why I wouldn't, I would vote not to defer this. And I would, I would not, again, I already said I'm supporting what Councilman Tomlinson said. So, right. That's why I took the COG language out of it because it's, it's a statement. It's, it's, it's asking the constituents that live there have asked us to take a stance one way or the other. Well, and to, so that's what I put on there is.

» So I agree with you that we're not the COG and we're not making the decision. Um, we're simply supporting the constituents that are going to be directly impacted in that area, which is something we do sitting up here. Sure. But what this doesn't say, Hey, there are constituents that don't like this. There's constituents that do like it. Um, but I will tell you what this says is Kershaw County, the governing body opposes a project to widen the lanes. This can only be directed at one entity, which is the COG, but I'll say, I agree. You've taken a lot of language out and I appreciate that, but I, and I've been very candid with you from the beginning. I'm, I'm not going to support anything that tells the COG what it should or shouldn't do. Um, I just don't have that information.

» We have enough to do up here. I mean, I've been working four months on the litter ordinance. I don't have time to look at lane widening, you know, 521 either. So I think that the COG is best equipped to deal with this and the chairman of the COG is here. So, and I think the constituents have made a very, um, honest effort at getting the information they need. They didn't know about the hearing, so they weren't able to voice their concerns prior to this. So they came to County Council, which I do think is appropriate. So even from a broader, look at it from 30,000 feet. What's the busiest highway in Kershaw County? It's US 1. We've got growth coming from Columbia. Anybody can see that. I don't need an engineering study to see that. It is a clogged artery coming across that bridge.

» It's a mess. The largest problem in Kershaw County isn't 521. And I think from a perception standpoint, that's a no brainer from a way government works standpoint. And I know that's probably what my friend, Mr. Tucker, Councilman Tucker wants to speak to. That's not the way it works. Correct. But as I look at it, and I look at it from a common sense standpoint, I want to express to the COG how much I appreciate their service, how much I appreciate their work. But we have larger problems. We have failing infrastructure. We have failing bridges. We have failing roads. We have crumbling roads. A friend of mine who lives in Boykin told me, and nobody, again, nobody that's in this room, nobody that signed the petition, they said, how about fix some of the roads we have? We're fine out here.

» They said, we got upset when they trimmed the trees back on 261. We're good. We're okay. Okay, so when you have hundreds of millions of dollars being proposed to be spent on a major project, and there's somebody, and I've said this in the past, somebody would say, oh, well, they should have fixed that. We're they. We are the people. We are the people with a voice. We are the people that use our voice in strong ways to sway opinion. I think we should take a vote tonight, and I think we should look at where these monies could be spent and better used in Kershaw County. As an elected official in Kershaw County, as of right this minute, that's my concern. If I were an elected official that was maybe beyond this county, I would be concerned about that district.

» But right this minute, as an elected official in Kershaw County, I see bigger needs elsewhere. So I'm happy to support it. I'm happy to take a vote. Okay. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. So I was going to not say a whole lot tonight and just wait for my council briefing, but first and foremost, Councilman Browser, you're absolutely right. You cannot intertwine funds that come from one location to another. It's like us taking our general fund, mix it into the capital, mix it into the roadway fees. There's certain structures and ways you have to fund this money, and most of our money comes from the federal government. So the projects you're talking about that are higher priority have to go through the correct procedure.

» We cannot take projects that's already been in the region, not just in Kershaw County, because that's what you're looking at it from. You're looking at it from the 10,000-foot level. You've got to go up a little bit more, because we've got projects that's in the region of all four counties, and then those have to go through the process. I wish we could do more in Westwater Reed. Have we picked up stuff and started putting it in the pipeline for Westwater Reed? Yes, sir, but it's going to take time. It's not going to be overnight, because the process doesn't work that way. You've got CTC that paves roads here in Kershaw County. We, as council members, cannot touch that money nor tell them we're to spend that money. All of y'all know that. You have money that the city of Camden get.

» They pave city of Camden roads. You have state money that pays state roads, and you have federal money that pays federal roads. You cannot intertwine those fees. Everybody has their jurisdictions. And so, as easy as it may sound as it's to steal from Peter to pay Paul, it does not work that way. And that's why we got the short end of the stick over in the central Midlands, because we didn't have the board representation or the pool to make anything happen. And we got treated like the leftover stepchild. And then now everybody wants their problems fixed in the Westwater Reed overnight, and that's not how it goes. We haven't even started receiving money coming out of central Midlands yet into our coffer to pay for anything in Kershaw County. So, it's a process.

» Those are all things that we need to be educated on. That's why I'd love to have Dennis here. Yeah, well, let me finish. He's not dodging from coming. Madam Chair was absolutely right. We had to move. Or we'll be paying two rental spaces, and our rental spaces aren't cheap for our COG. So, they're in the process of trying to get all that settled and punch out of one place, punch into another place. And I explained that to her. He will come back. And this is, even if the study's done and comes back, doesn't mean that myself or other COG members support the study, because we don't know what it is. You know, we want to get one so we can have something to go off of. So, that's what I'm study asking for people to just have a little patience and just wait and see where does this lead us.

» And I'm going to say that there was some miscommunications between their lawyer and the COG on some paperwork to for you some things, but we're not hiding anything. You can get whatever we have. And I'll see to that when I talk with Mr. Dennis Cypress here this week on where we're at. But he did have a conversation with me saying that when the lawyer sent the paperwork to the COG, the form for the request information was never sent and filled out. They've resolved that, and that's why they've got what they've got now. But it's just like this county right here. There is a procedure to go through to get information. We just don't roll out information. So, I just want to make that clear. I don't want nobody to think that Dennis is a bad person, the COG is a bad person.

» You can have that thought. That's your personal opinion. But there's nothing to hide. Well, I don't think anybody here said that. No, no. It was said here, though. Madam Chair. I made clear before I made any remarks that Dennis was fantastic. I spoke to him on the phone. Gentleman, 100% gentleman. Great guy. I think he's willing to come here and talk to you folks in Boynton. Yes, he is. Educate me. Educate us all. At the end of the day, you want to know if you have somebody working on your behalf. And I will tell you that I am. I want a clarification, if I may. Mr. Guns. Okay. You know, with all due respect, we referenced some other committees, the CTC committee that are state funded that we can't tell them what to do. And there were some other committees.

» Let me tell you what we can do as county council members. And I've done it time after time and time again with the – it's still state federal tax dollars. It's still the people's money. We can advocate what they want. We can't tell people what to do, but we can advocate what they want. And that's what we're doing with this resolution. So – and we do it all the time. I've had 20 people in the CTC committee. I would go in there with them to advocate that we wanted this road put before this road because of the conditions of this road. You know, and that they were always open to listen. So that's the way I look at my position up here is that I'm going to advocate and stand by these folks. And I think that's the proper way to do it. And remember this.

» We do go and advocate in other areas of – like the transportation committee and we advocate for our citizens. That's what we're doing here right now. It's the same thing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Goff. Sometimes I make so much good sense I can't stand it. I'm just going to read the project request that went to SCDOT. Project description. This feasibility study – this study will seek to determine the cost associated with and feasibility of widening the U.S. 521 corridor in Sumter and Kershaw counties to improve safety and travel time reliability. Currently, the southern section of U.S.

» 521 in Sumter County has been widened to five lanes, four lanes of travel with a grass median, but the section identified for this study remains a two-lane roadway with inadequate shoulders and minimal turning lanes. These issues create safety concerns and can lead to congestion during peak travel times. So, the COG did ask SCDOT to determine the cost associated with widening the road. So, I think I'm just either misunderstanding or disagreeing. It wasn't a corridor study. So, we asked for a corridor study on 261. And that project description is, this study will seek to identify and recommend potential improvements to the 261 corridor. So, the feasibility and corridor – the studies – we're kind of using the word study interchangeably.

» And I do feel like we've asked SCDOT to determine how much is it going to cost to widen highway 521. I don't think nobody's disagreeing with that. But the word four-lane came up several times. There was nothing on that safe – it said widening. It stayed about the four or five lanes in Sumter County. Right. And that's why I changed this to specifically say four lanes. But that's still being used within this setting tonight. We don't know because we do not have a study back. That's the point that I'm trying to make. But whether we know or not, the constituents that live there don't want four lanes. Period. Like, that's kind of – That would be real simple if only those constituents would have to travel that road.

» But they're not the only ones of Kershaw County that either pays taxes, live here, vote for me, don't vote for me. You've got 60-something thousand people in this county and a lot of people that travel that way to and from. So, I have to be fair to all. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. And I certainly agree. I've just had a majority of people oppose four lanes. I've got folks over there in West of Waterbury where you're advocating that need their roads repaired or replaced, too. Yeah, they do. I mean, my district is all over this county. I just – you know, there's people who I represent wide and far. So, understand my plight. That's all I'm asking. Yes, sir. Thank you. We disagree, Mr. Tucker. Not always. Not always. Not always. I'm talking about you and I. Not always.

» Okay, with that, are there any other comments germane to this conversation? Questions? Yes, I have a comment. He said we always – it's just 99%. Okay, that's not germane to this resolution, Mr. Jones. I understand that. But can I say one thing before we vote? I still have my amendment on the floor. Correct. To defer indefinitely. And let me make my argument as to why we need to do that. If we don't, it's dead. Okay, it's dead. If we don't defer it or if a councilman doesn't change his mind, it's dead. And I'm asking we defer it to where he – if he didn't have enough information that we just brought up here, that we give that time to have that done. If not, we take a vote and I move on. It's not necessarily dead because you've actually changed my mind and I could bring it back up.

» Remember? Just because you brought it up or Katie brought it up and it gets voted down, somebody else can bring it back up. On the prevailing side. Hey, yeah. On the prevailing side. Oh, is that right? Right, yeah. I'm wrong with you, y'all. Yeah, make sure we have proper clarification on that. Okay, Mr. Jones? If Mr. Tucker's correct, I'm incorrect. Thank you. I'm asking you to support – Russell, I'm asking you to support me, please. Okay. But if it's deferred, I want to make sure that we have this study back to make sure that we know what their plans are, whether it's widening it three feet or whether it's putting in four lanes or whether it's just putting in a couple turn. I want to know what their – I don't want to vote on something that I don't know what I'm voting on.

» Ma'am, I mean, I – you know, I think it's – I think it would be very immature of me if I voted on something that I really don't know what they're going to do. I mean, this is all speculation. You know, when you – when you said that there was an independent study that you're waiting to get back and a traffic study. Ms. Daniels, can you please come to the microphone? I said we feel forced to hire – I said we feel forced to hire an independent engineer from Vermont to come down here because we can't get information. We're asking that person to assess what's going on here. Okay. We as taxpayers are taking this on ourselves, which is not right. And it clearly says that four lanes is what they want. And the study isn't going to prove yes or no on four lanes. I'm sorry. Mr. Cato? Yes.

» Absolutely. Yes, Mr. Cato, you may. Here's the important point that we tried to make earlier that I hope, Mr. Cato, you understand, and others. The feasibility study, as far as we can tell from the documents that were produced from the FOIA request are a request to SCDOT or whoever on what it would take and what it would cost to widen 521 to four lanes. That's what it says in there. What we are saying is that there has been no analysis of traffic data, safety, or anything else that suggests anything needs to be done to 521. So, if you're uncomfortable with the lack of information that you have, the feasibility study ain't going to do that. What you're going to get back is a timeline and a cost. What we all need is an analysis of traffic or however these things are done.

» I'm not an engineer either. Give us the piece of paper that convinced COG to do a feasibility study. That's what we need to see. Not the feasibility study on how much it's going to cost and what it's going to take. Show us the traffic data, whatever it is that says anything needs to be done. And if there's no proof that anything needs to be done to 521, forget about who wants it or doesn't want it. Let's live and die by objective data and analysis. What is the data that says anything is needed for 521? That can't just be done by remediation within the right of way, which is how this was discussed in 2014 when it came up. And I agree with you 100% and that's what I'd like to see. Let's get it from the COG. That's what I'd like to see. Mr. Cato? Yes.

» All right, any other comments? No, this hadn't been a traffic study recently. Do I need to restate my amendment motion, Madam Chair? Hold on. Fall stays in play, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. But they will do one. I'm ready to take a vote. All those in favor of deferment of this resolution indefinitely indicate by raising your hand. Madam Chair, point of order, please. Yes. What's your point of order? Who seconded that? I did. Second. Okay. Second the motion to defer. The motion to defer. Yeah. Well, I thought I did. Mr. Basil, you seconded it? If somebody needed to, yes. Okay. I think he was trying to second it, but you had already seconded it. Okay. I thirded it. Okay. All right, so it's you. I need it for my information. That's all. Let's take the vote. Okay.

» All those in favor of deferring this resolution indefinitely indicate by raising your hand. Okay, Mr. Jones, Mr. Cato, myself, and Mr. Brasel, and all those opposed, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Shoemake. Okay, this resolution is deferred. Thank you, Mr. Cato, very much. Slim Pickens tonight, ladies and gentlemen. All right, back to our agenda. We're up to item number 11, new business. We have one order of new business tonight, the detention shower project bid. And if you're here in the audience and you're going to exit, yes, we'll give you a minute. Right in your agenda packet is a detention shower bid. This was placed on the agenda by Mr. Templer. And Mr. Templer, are you looking for a motion to approve the bid? Yes, ma'am. Okay.

» I would make a motion to approve the bid that's recommended by staff for $172,379.83. Okay, Mr. Shoemake makes the motion. Is there a second? Second, Madam Chair. Second by Mr. Tucker. And Mr. Shoemake, you have the floor. Would you like to defer to Mr. Templer? Okay. Absolutely. Go ahead, Mr. Templer. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of council. This is one of the items we've identified from our needs over at the detention center. We had some issues over there with some plumbing. So this has been a large-scale project. This is something that actually we were quite pleased with this price coming in. We thought it would be much more than this. But this is the power of cooperative purchasing. So this bid went out.

» It came back, which leaves us some residual funds to address some other issues over at the detention center. How many bids did you get, Mr. Templer? This is just one because this is a cooperative purchasing bid through Johnson Lowe Construction. All right. Thank you. And just to clarify, we've used this co-op purchasing. It's authorized through Section 11 of state law through finance. Sourcewell is another one we've used. They're unique, and it streamlines tremendously the timeline of going out to bid and procurement. And we do fall under that, right? Absolutely. Mr. Bose is great. Yes, state law allows for this. Well, good job on this. Good job. So it just allows us to get to these unique projects quicker with a very streamlined procurement process.

» But everything still meets every step of our procurement process. Yes, sir. And Mr. Templer, you said this bid came in lower than you expected. What was that compared to? We just kind of had a swag of what we thought it might be. So I was very pleased to see this number. I was a little concerned about what I thought I might see because of the shower with just the way the detention center is built. And it is a detention facility. It's not your traditional plumbing. Okay, and the budget line item for detention center projects with $320,000 available, that's not just for the shower? That includes all the upgrades? We had the roof, and then we had the shower. Okay. And then so we'll have some residual funds. Okay. So we'll still have funding in the projects after the $172,000. Okay. Correct.

» Okay. Well, good job budgeting that amount of money for those projects. Maybe we can do some more work. Mm-hmm. Yep. Any questions for Mr. Templer? Okay. All those in favor of accepting the bid for the detention shower project indicate by raising your hand. Okay. And the vote is unanimous. Good job. Thank you, Mr. Templer, for that work on that. Mr. Templer, is the word swag used very often in the bid process? Not just with me. Proprietary. Okay. Item number 12, appointments. So we have two vacants on the Assessment Appeals Board and one applicant. Is there a motion to nominate anyone to the Assessment Appeals Board at this time? So I would, I've read through Ms. Franklin's resume, and it's impressive to me. We've had this vacancy for some time, as I recall, and I would note that Ms.

» Franklin lives out in Elgin in Stratford Plantation, which is right there in my district. And so I have not had the privilege of meeting Ms. Franklin, but I will definitely be calling her. I don't think she's in the room, but I will definitely be calling her if this passes and checking in with her. But I would nominate Ms. Rosalind Franklin to the Assessment Appeals Board. Why don't you just make it a motion? Okay. A motion to put Rosalind Franklin on the Assessment Appeals Board. Second. Okay. Good. Thank you, Ms. Jones. Motion to appoint Rosalind Franklin to the Assessment Appeals Board. Second by Mr. Tucker. Any discussion? Good job. Impressive resume. Yes. Just for clarification, that first page, she does live in Kershaw County, because I looked at that.

» Yeah, her resume has a Columbia address, but her actual cover letter is the Stratford Plantation. Yeah. Okay. I'm delighted that she wants to serve and thankful. Looks like we're lucky to have her. Yep, we are. All those in favor of appointing Ms. Rosalind Franklin to the Assessment Appeals Board indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. And the vote is unanimous. Congratulations, Ms. Franklin. You will be serving on the Assessment Appeals Board. And thank you for your willingness to serve. All right. Item. Council member briefings. I don't know who started the last one, so. I started the last one, so you need to go over there. Okay. Mr. Brasel, can you start tonight for us, please? Yeah, absolutely.

» So tonight was real special for me, being able to honor a childhood friend. Charlie and I met in the sixth grade and became fast friends. And he served his country well beyond what I'm able to speak to tonight. He's traveled many deployments and given up a lot to do a lot of things to a lot of bad people overseas. And he was part of some major missions. And I'm thankful that, Ms. Quinn, thank you so much for your support and your help in getting everything right for the proclamation and help it be a surprise. He was, I know he was overwhelmed and his family was as well. So that's really, that was the highlight of tonight for me. So that's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brasel. And absolutely, that was really special for me, too. So I like to do that for veterans.

» So thank you for including me. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. Great job, Russell, Madam Chair, once again on the proclamation for senior chief. Always good to recognize folks that come from our roots right here in Kershaw County. Let me start off by saying, excuse me, Madam Chair, thank you for being willing to compromise on your resolution. I know we didn't take a vote on it tonight. And I know there's still some, a lot of questions, but I just want to make it clear that the COG director, Mr. Dennis Cypress, will do everything in his physical being to accommodate the citizens of Kershaw County. I can assure you and speak for that. But it's a process we must go through, no different than the process we have to go through here with our government.

» So with that being said, I will help you facilitate getting him here. Hopefully that we can have all members present or at least on the line so they can ask their questions as well and the citizens as well. And he is also willing, and I'm also willing to assist him in having another meeting, you know, a community setting if we need to do that. We're not running from anybody. It's just that there's a process and we have to go through that process. That's all I'm asking. So with that being said, I'm going to get off that horse and just say the Finance Committee met last week, myself and Councilman Shumate and Councilman Thomason, and we had a good meeting.

» We actually met with the treasurer, met with four departments, three elected officials, the treasurer, which has the treasurer and delinquent taxes, which is Mr. Randy Roberts. That went well. We met with Judge Branham with the probate court. That went well. And then we met with the auditor, Mr. Dennis Arlach. And I'm going to tell you there's a theme there, and I'm not ashamed to say it. But those departments with other elected officials and department heads, as this county continues to grow, they're suffering with manpower. Just point back, I'm going to put it out there to you. So this council is going to have to be mindful of that. And not only manpower, Madam Chairman is already aware of this, and I know it's something that she's been willing to work on.

» But we've got to address some of the wages within our employees that are not livable wages or comparable of being able to retain people. That is an issue for the administrator and staff. And that's not going to go away unless this council gives them the tools to work with. With that being said, we meet again next week. If I'm not mistaken, I need to find that date. And I may have to come back and just give you that date, Madam Chair. It's on my phone. Ms. Temple, you have it. It's going to be from 3.30 to 5, March the, I want to say 12th, 11th. No, the day's at 12th. 18th? I can't remember. But anyway, everything else went well. I'm going to ask Councilman Sheemate and Councilman Thomas if they had anything they want to add from the meeting. The 19th. Thank you, Ms. Hatter.

» I should have asked you from the start. Thank you very much. So it's the 19th at 3.30. And we're pretty punctual about staying on time so the staff can get home on time to their families. So that concludes my report. And I appreciate you again on your compromising. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Yes, sir. Mr. Schumick. Yeah. Just a couple of brief things. I just want to say that Elgin, as a community, tends to do or continues to do some really great things. The project Breaking Ground of the Community Center is coming along well. I try to attend the Elgin Town Council meetings. I haven't made the last couple, but I'll hopefully make the one next month. It's always nice to have that interaction. And I noticed Mayor Emmons, I think she left, but she was here. So I appreciate her coming today.

» Again, we've said it before, but March 23rd, Clean Communities Commission. You know, there was a couple of things said about, you know, some litter stuff and some growth stuff. And people were nice enough to invoke my name once or twice. But I believe, you know, true leadership is about you own your failures but share your successes. And I just want to say that the litter stuff that we've done, the ordinance stuff that we're doing, there's some folks up here that are working it. But, you know, Joey from Planning and Zoning, Danny, our county administrator, John DuBose, county attorney, Gerald Blanch, our deputy administrator, they're the engine behind all of that. And I just want to thank all of them.

» And that gentleman that came up and talked about the human waste that he found, which was just awful, I didn't do anything except for text Gerald. And in about less than 24 hours, they were completely happy. So they're not here, so I'll continue to take the credit, Gerald, from them. But it was all Gerald. I just, all I did is send a text message. So I just want to thank our staff, Ms. Hannah, and all of you guys, because every success we have, we're the ones that get up to stand here. We take the bullets, but we also get the credit. And that's really not accurate. We should take the bullets, but you guys deserve all the credit. So I just wanted to say thank you. Well, you can have the credit too, buddy.

» And I also want to say in the crowd, he's one of the last men standing, Nick Voss, you heard it. He got a shout-out from Senior Chief. Nick is a dear friend of mine, and I would say without his assistance, there's a good chance I wouldn't be sitting up here, because the friend who will walk neighborhoods with you and knock on doors is a friend for life. So also a dear childhood friend of mine, and thanks for coming, Nick. And if you're lucky in life, you'll have a friend like Nick. So that's all I have. Well, I want to first start by saying thank you for both proclamations. Russell, yours was just on point, and it was well-deserved, and I appreciate that. And Madam Chair, the women history, you know, I was very fortunate to be raised by some good godly women.

» My mother, my grandmothers, I even was fortunate enough to know my great-grandmothers. And other women that helped, well, some people might not like it, but the way I am today, I guess, bring me in the way I am today. But so if it wasn't for women, one, we wouldn't be here, but two, you know, we probably wouldn't be molded the way we are. So I thank you for that proclamation. A couple of things. One thing is the litter pickup in Bethune will be March 23rd, 7 a.m. Then Mount Pisgah Community Resource Center will be having a movie day on March the 16th. That will be at 1230. It's free, free to the public. Come out, watch the movie. They'll have the movie popcorn and different little stuff. Bring your children. And it'll be a family-friendly environment.

» So come out and enjoy that on the 16th. What time? 1230. Thank you. The last thing I want to say is, you know, I guess I was at the center of attention, which is very seldom up here tonight. But I promised myself when I was elected to this position that I would take it very serious and I would take every vote that I made very serious. And that I would do my absolute best to inform myself before I made decisions. I know sometimes I'm not popular with some people. There's no way I'll make everybody happy. There's always going to be somebody on either side of the situation that's not going to like it. But I'm not doing it to be aggravating or to put something off. I'm doing it because I want to make sure that I have the most information that I can possibly have before I make my decision.

» That's why I did what I did tonight. And I hope that nobody saw it that way. But that's the way I feel. And I'll continue to be that way. So, with that being said, I hope you have a great night and a great week. And that's all I have. My turn? Thank you, Mr. Kato. Yes, Mr. Tomlinson. Madam Chair, thank you. I'd first like to say thank you to each one of my colleagues, Mr. Jones, Kato, Madam Chair, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tucker, and what was your name again? I'm pulling a Mr. Jones, Mr. Brazel, and staff. You know, it's an honor to sit up here with each one of you and to be able to serve and do what's best for the people of Kershaw County. And you know what? I don't think.

» I know that each person sitting here has what's best in their heart and is going to vote the way they feel for what's best for Kershaw County. And it's a pleasure sitting up here with each one of you. I'd just like to say that. Now on to a few highlights coming up. We do have, as I believe it was mentioned a couple times, Mr. Swan, who's the chairman of the Friends of Goodall board, who I have the pleasure of serving on as well. April 27th, we have Family Fun Day. If you haven't seen all what's going on in Goodall State Park, please come out and join us. Over the past year, we've had a brand new playground, state-of-the-art playground, a new kayak launch put out.

» This board of men and women have taken a stand and really trying to highlight one of the most beautiful places in South Carolina alone. And we're blessed to have it right here in our backyard. Also, May 7th, so the South Carolina 7th expedition will be in Kershaw County, May 7th. Madam Chair last year was able to take a small window out of her military duty to come and kick us off in brief. Thank you for doing that. Can you say again when it is? It's May 7th. May 7th. Yeah, May 7th. And this year, we'll just be hiking the Choddy Trail, and then we're incorporating a litter cleanup. Palmetto Pride will be here along with some others.

» It's going to be a litter cleanup and then a 3.4-mile hike Choddy Trail, which is the Environmental Training Center, all the way to the Revolutionary War Center. We would love as many who can come out. And I appreciate everybody. As always, appreciate staff. I'm going to hush so we can get out here a little bit quicker. Thank you all. Mr. Tomlinson, you forgot to add that Mr. Shoemake was there at the kayak launch. He actually slipped. I've got a few pictures of Mr. Shoemake struggling in the rain, so if you'd like to see him. I wasn't struggling in the rain. It was the mud under the rain that I had trouble with. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. I did. I forgot to mention that. Mr. Gantz. Well, I plan to be there. I plan to be there. And good luck if you all can keep up.

» Listen, I want to start tonight very briefly here. Craig Hudson and I both have lost a very close friend. I know what he meant to you. And so Christmas won't be the same, will it? Because he used to, Steve Zobel, used to invite us over to his house on Christmas Day. And there'd be a big crowd, Randy Bowers and a few of them up there, and Craig and his beautiful wife, and my wife and our friends and their friends. But he passed away this past week. And I'd like to have just a 10-second, whatever, moment of silence before I continue on, Madam Chair, if we may. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. And Steve, you'll always be in our hearts, and we know where you are. All right. And Mr. Breslow, thank you. Thank you, Jimmy.

» Thank you for going over to the house, to the family, being supportive and everything. That meant a lot. Steve was a good friend of mine as well. Yes, he was. Yes, he was. He was into a unique individual. All right. Now, let me move on just a little bit here. Chief Neese. What a man. That's a man's man. Oh, what do you say in the name? Senior Chief. Senior Chief. Thank you. He was senior. Let me tell you something. I listened to his credentials, and I mean, I was just drooling. I mean, you know, when you sat behind a typewriter for two years, and, you know, 21 words meant to graduate from MOS. But, man, let me tell you, good stuff. Good stuff, Russell Brasel. That was a great way to start this meeting off. And I know you put a lot of work into it.

» And I know Madam Chair was here at 8 o'clock this morning, worried about it all night, making sure that resolution was done right and the support that everybody gave. What a win for Kershaw County to have somebody like that here. Very proud. Very proud. All right. Now, after I got those two, I want to make a couple of comments. And I have to write things down so I don't, so I do not drift, you know, into Disneyland somewhere. And this is going to be about the Kershaw County Detention Center. I want you all to listen to me close, guys, because I got the answer. We need to plan for the renovation of the jail. Now, it's almost 25 years old. But at the present, we do not have a clue of what to do or how to do it. I have done a lot of research.

» And I have a lot of knowledge as former jail director, former project manager for construction of this current jail and design, which I didn't like, but I do what the county minister told me. But if you'd have listened to me, it would have been a much better jail. I was a class one certified law enforcement officer when I ran the jail. And I worked very closely with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, SLED, Department of Corrections Inspections Division, and the South Carolina Criminal Justice Academy. I was constantly in contact with them, especially the inspections division, to come down and tell me what they needed, this, that, and the other.

» The present jail facility can be maintained with proper leadership and the proper programs to deal with the nonviolent jail population, not the violent criminals. We are at a, we are a pre-sentence type 2 facility. We can work, we can work with the present facility as long as you keep the doors locked, proper head counts for every inmate, and proper processing, having the drug dogs come in. And I had them come in quite frequently when I was there, and have alternate programs for nonviolent inmates. I think it's very important, because it can just be a revolving door for some of them. We need to have violent inmates processed. The need to work on mental, we have to really work hard on mental issues and mental, especially forensic evaluations of mental illness.

» You know, I know we got one inmate that's been there over a year waiting on his forensic. And they say, well, you know, that's just normal. Well, that's what they used to tell me 25 years ago, nothing's changed on that, but we need to push it, and we did push it. Inmates house for nonviolent mental issues, we need to work on that as well. Listen, we need to work on the jail, but, and we need a lot of work on the jail, but it can work. A jail can work as it is. Over the next two years, we need to work hard on and develop a realistic plan to improve the facilities. If council took the $10 million that it spent on the recreation and spent it on the jail, it would have allowed us, I believe in my heart, 10 years more without us having to go to taxpayers about jail improvements.

» Meanwhile, let's develop a plan. And $10 million we had to use on a solution is gone to travel ball fields instead, so we don't have that, but this jail can go on for a few years with proper leadership and programs. You know, I got a list of how many inmates were in the jail, the classifications and all. I think if you had a classification officer that was really working aggressively on the jail population, which is at 136, there's no doubt in my mind you couldn't reach 15% easily on house arrest, home monitoring, but you've got to do an evaluation, you've got to work with it, and possibly maybe even 20% would do the math from 136. That would be a tremendous help. I think currently now there's not a whole lot being done. You know, we need to get jail police through.

» We need to look at alternative programs. If you take away, if you take away the Gideons, you take away the programs that are there, we're just talking about drug programs, they're left with nothing when they get out. I come from a law enforcement background. I used to say, lock them up, throw away the key, but let me tell you some guys, we've got to help some of those people, and programs are very important, and as of now, I don't think there are any programs. Is it Mr. Tim? Yes, there's programs over there. Tell me what programs we've got. They've got the GED program. They do have some mental health counseling. We've partnered with mental health to come in a couple times a week. There's some drug programming going on. Who's doing your drug programming? Well, Alpha Center.

» Well, let me just say this, okay? The agencies involved, I've gotten a different, I've gotten different statements from there, but I don't want to go into that now. We'll talk about it. Okay, so as I said, they're having trouble with getting the programs in. We've got to make sure they're in there. We've got to make sure they're working them. You know, we've got to make sure the doors are closed. But I'm telling you guys, we don't have $50 million. We don't have $10 million. Whatever we do, we have to go to the people unless we can find the money. So I'm a strong proponent to let's find the money. Let's make sure that this jail currently is being ran tight. The programs are being implemented. I know I want to compliment Mr. Tennant of Templar.

» I think he's gone out and he's met with some companies that do the house arrest. That's the guys that can work. And we do have qualified inmates in the detention that could be put on house arrest. We just have to work it and get the cooperation solicited for the family courts, you know, the magistrates and all the other. And you know better than me, sir, how the law enforcement program works. But I would get the Department of Inspections, Blake Taylor, who's over, he has that department. He's been a longtime friend of mine. I'd be getting drug dogs in there frequently to make sure that everything's running smooth. But anyway, that was my comment on that. And I hope you all listen to what I say and understand that it is the facts. It is absolutely what needs to be done. All right.

» I had one other thing I wanted to say. I appreciate each and every one of you taking the time to listen when we all have differences of opinion. We're going to have that. And none of us up here makes apologies for our votes because we're too stubborn. I'm not the only one. But bottom line is I do appreciate the strong dialogue and the courtesy that we give each other without getting angry. We're above all that. And I've tried to be a good example to you guys about that. So having said that, I'm not sure you ran a very quick meeting tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. You just got to dig, don't you? I will never be able to run a meeting as quickly as Vice Chairman Jones. Thank you, Mr. Jones. And thank you for bringing up the passing of Steve Zobel.

» Also, keep in your prayers his daughter, Sam, who is very close to our family. She helps with Eli a lot. And it's just sad. I want to give a Kershaw County Opioid Coalition update. So I serve on that coalition on behalf of council. And I'll be attending the RX and Illicit Drug Summit the first week in April. It's the largest event in the nation that addresses the opioid and addiction crisis. So there's different legislative seminars, and it's a way to see what other states and other counties are doing with their policies, if there is something to do so, and how other states and counties are responding to overdose and addiction, and how they're using their funding also. Madam Chair. Yes.

» On that, can you please get with me when you do get back? Because where I'm employed at, we have folks that's from a different country. And so when we do new minor training, the people that come in, they don't have a clue what fentanyl or NORCAN is. Okay. Yes, absolutely. So we may need some help from the... Yes. And community education and outreach is part of the coalition's goals. So we're... Thank you. So we are... We have funding for a reverse 911 system called Code Red, and this would basically allow the county to do a reverse 911 call out to the public to let the public know there's a fentanyl outbreak in the community. So we did get funding for that. So we'll be working just a way to let the community know, hey, there is a bad batch of whatever, or there's fentanyl in this area.

» But we just, we really need to increase our community awareness, so that's one way we can do it. We're working on a countywide needs assessment, and that needs assessment is really going to be a community response plan. How do we respond to the opioid use, the addiction, and the overdoses? So we're working on that. We do have the naloxone vending machine at the jail. That is currently there. It is available for inmates if they need it, and it's at no cost to them. And finally, we have a meeting tomorrow, so we do meet monthly. We have assessed that there's kind of a, there's a missed opportunity in our community for unused medications. So a lot of people get medications by way of unused medications that were prescribed to someone else.

» And there's a lot of different scenarios that go into that. I want to put out, the worst thing that you can do is to flush your unused medications down the drain or in the toilet. The Alpha Center in downtown Camden, the sheriff's office, there are a lot of places that accept drug takebacks and can process unused medication. And you might think, you know, it's not always something you think about. You go off a medication and you have it laying around. So I want to encourage the community to turn those unused medications in. And what the coalition is doing is we're looking into having a drug take-back day in the spring with multiple locations throughout the county that we can encourage everybody to kind of clean out their medicine closet and get those drugs to the proper authorities.

» Unity in the Community. They are starting a workshop series. There will be a three-part series. The first one is Thursday, March 21st at 6 p.m. in Liberty Hall in Camden. If you'd like to register for the workshop, email unitykershaw at gmail.com. They are doing great work. There's a lot of positive conversations that come out of Unity in the community, and I'm really proud of their efforts bringing people together because sometimes we get group think going on and we don't always sit with or have a meal with someone in a different geographical area of the county or, you know, that's not in our daily walk of life. Council, you have an email, you should have an email dated March 12th from Katie Minton opposing the residential development of the Camden Training Center. Okay.

» So, please reach out to her if you feel the need to. I certainly oppose the annexation of the property going into the city of Camden because our zoning requirements would allow for less density, but it's currently not something this council's taking up. But I do appreciate her reaching out and sending us the email. So, please support the Arts Center of Kershaw County. Go see the musical production of Finding Nemo Jr. Go see those little kiddos performing out there. It increases their funding, but then it also supports our youth in the county. Lastly, I have a new phone number, and Chris is going to put it up on the screen. 839-278-0999. So, I just want to give that to everybody. Ms.

» Parler's going to put it on the website and distribute it as much as she can, but I wanted to put that out there. It is a local number, even though it's 839. This has got a weird area. I know. I know. Mr. Jones said he specifically requested that I have that. But please, please contact me. No change to my email, katie.gwynn. And please continue to send me your questions and your comments and your concerns. And that concludes my brief this evening. Mr. Templer, Administrator's Brief. A couple things here. First off, I just want to remind everybody, there was an email sent out, and I think Lauren sent out something as well. Well, March 18th at 6 o'clock, it's going to be the joint meeting with council and the planning commission. This is to work on the comp plan.

» And so, they're going to just kind of tackle the three cornerstones of the community vision statement, the goals, and the corresponding policies. So, this is going to be really important for council to have the input as it relates to growth and what we ultimately want the comp plan to look like. That will ultimately feed into the ZLDR, so very important meeting. We'll be out there at the training area in economic development. What time? It's at 6 p.m. Ms. Parler, can you make sure everyone gets a reminder on Sunday? Because I know that's a Monday. Thank you. I'm having two wisdom teeth out that morning, guys. I won't be able to make it. Okay. Sorry. My apologies, Ms. Templer. No, that's fine. And then one more thing, Mr.

» Jones, you were talking about the jail and looking at some different ways to handle things. I just wanted to update you on something we had talked about. The Offender Management Services has brought back some information about who could be potential candidates for home detention. And after reviewing the jail list, there were 57 potential candidates. But after they went down and went through all of the rubric of who would qualify, we had zero detainees that would qualify for home detention. I don't believe that. I'm sorry. I have to disagree with that. That's right. Unfortunately. And now that's home detention. Now, Alvin S. Glenn has three people in home detention out of all the people they have. So that's a much higher threshold.

» So if you've been on, if you're a second offender, if you don't have a stable home address, so there's a lot of factors that go into that. And I do, and I appreciate your work. I just don't agree with that company, your statement. We had a very successful program. Yeah, but the thing now, the laws have changed, too, Councilman Jones, of people getting out and being repeat offenders. You know, so that's probably got a lot of restriction on it as well, right, Mr. Templer? It's true. I'm honestly shocked Alvin S. Glenn had three that qualified. I'm surprised anybody's ever qualified. Oh, Mr. Glenn, they need to work it a little bit harder. Mr. Templer, is there... I don't think Alvin S. Glenn does the best job in the world, I'll be honest with you. So they did that assessment now.

» Is there an ongoing assessment? Like, how often are we going to evaluate who can do it? So that is just the initial assessment for home detention. Now, there is essentially wearing the ankle monitor to be let out prior to your court date. Now, that's going to probably yield some different numbers there. Okay. Y'all didn't run that? That's what I'm talking about. No, but there's two phases. There's home detention. That's all we have back so far. So we'll look for... There'll be other updates. Okay. The next evaluation will be who can wear the GPS ankle monitor. Okay. Yeah. Well, you've got to work with the judges. You know, and I think that's an important piece there is, you know, the cops lock them up.

» The judge sets a bond on them, but it's up to the solicitor's office to let them out or put them in prison. And when everything is backed up the way it is, we are warehousing people. And, you know, it's frustrating. We're six people short over there. We, that's one of the things I'm going to address between dispatch and nine, the jail. Those will be my priorities in this budget for giving people raises. Absolutely. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Everyone else has had their time over the years. Some have had five mil increases so they can get raises. That's, that's not where it hurts right now. It hurts in that room over there and in that jail over there. I think I like, I like what you're saying. Take care of what we've got now before we keep adding on as well, too.

» That's my report, ma'am. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Thank you, Mr. Templer. I have a couple items that I need an update on. The boat ramp. Where are we on the boat ramp project? What's the next step? So we're, we should be having surveys back and then we'll have a cost opinion after that. Because the survey was going to allow us to see what the, how much topography we had to move. Okay. When do you expect to have the survey back? I will check with him tomorrow, Stephen, tomorrow. Okay. But I thought it would have been back by now. Okay. And then what is the next step once we have the survey completed? I want a cost opinion. Okay. And then we'll just, we're just going to pretty much start going from there. Okay.

» Can you add that to your administrator brief? Just a rolling update on that so that we know where it is for the constituents. I had the GPS tracking update on here. Thank you for addressing that. Impact fee. Do we have, council, I'm going to be honest. I'm ready to pull the plug on the impact fee. So if I, if I can actually jump in something that I've talked to some other council members about, because this came up in the finance committee meeting, the, an additional piece of the study has to be done for an impact fee. So what I was going to put on the agenda, because part of the issue is it's a ton of work that staff is going to have to do to prepare the impact fee thing. So what I was going to do is put on the agenda.

» I may not make the next meeting, but the next meeting I'm here, you guys can take it up without me, is put on the agenda a motion that would basically authorize the staff to move forward and express we support an impact fee. Because what I don't want to do is put a bunch of money and time into something that's going to fail up here. So I think we can take an initial vote just because I'm in favor of it as well. I think we can take an initial vote. Yeah, I'm ready. That way we show the staff that we are supportive of an impact fee. Because if, because if it fails up here, why should we make them go through all that work? Well, that was my question for Mr. Templer.

» What do you need from us next? And what's the next step in moving forward? Do we have the capital project list? Do we have, but it sounds like that's the work. Well, and that's why we were talking to finance about it and that's what they were saying. And so he said, it would be helpful if they knew, you know, if we were going to be supportive of one, so I said, well, let's do a motion to go ahead and direct it. And that way we can see where people stand on. Okay. Madam Chair, for what it's worth, my recommendation is to apply those funds to solid waste. Okay.

» Because they are short-term, I don't want to say short-term projects, but you only have so much time to spend that money and those projects would be reasonable, you know, in terms of time that we could take that money and spend it and make improvements in addition to solid waste. Plus, that's one of our, really, it's one of our, as far as an underfunded department, that is it. Okay. So there might need to be some preliminary work for this council to take a vote on it. So I just need to know where we stand, where you and your staff stand on it and how we can move forward. And if it's, if the ball's in our court, then I would ask us to pick it up and take it. Oh, go ahead.

» And I was just going to say, if what we can do now is just prepare kind of what we see the fee going for and in terms of solid waste. A recommendation, yeah. That would be great. Yes, yes. So it would be a presentation for you. Okay. Sewer system update. Where we stand on capacity and where are we with the upgrades? Capacity is, you know, we're adding customers every month, but nothing that's earth-shattering. We're still well within our limit there. The, the last we heard from the, from Preston was their licensing and designing right now. So, but we're still on track. Okay. That's something we're going to follow very close because, again, those funds, they, they expire as well. Okay. And do we have a timeline? I did in my, I don't have my notes with me, but I can send them. Okay.

» And I'll have, I'll have that the next, next, next meeting, but I can send that out individually. That would be great. I just want Preston to understand what our timeline is and where our capacity is. Because with the growth, I don't want to, I don't want to bust the capacity before we even have time to make the upgrades. I kind of want that to happen before. Mr. Jones? Yes, I would like to move on. Okay. Woodward Field update, please. Woodward Field is, they had a meeting today. Gerald was there. I was not there as far as the, you mean Woodward Park or the airport. I put Woodward Field, I mean Woodward Park, yes. Okay. Parks and Rec. Yes, yes, yes. So we are still doing the due diligence pieces there. They've done the traffic study. That had to be done when the school year was going.

» So I feel like we're moving along there. Is the traffic study available for us yet? Yeah, I can, I'll get it. Okay. Can you send it to us, please? Thank you. I know it was done. So the wetlands delineation and things like that are being done. Okay, thank you. A lot of stuff that you don't really see going on out there, but it's all of the important stuff. And I know you're working on it. I know you have staff working on it. I just kind of need periodic updates up here so that we can tell constituents when they call and ask. So, all right. That's all I have for Mr. Templer. Anything for Mr. Templer? No. Okay. Mr. DeBose, legal briefing. Nothing other than the executive session stuff, which will hopefully be the quickest executive session. It cannot be because I... I challenge it.

» All right. Up to item number 16. I mean, we do need a legal briefing for an economic development matter, and we need to receive attorney-client-privileged information. So we'll knock those both out in one executive session. Is there a motion to enter executive session? So moved, Madam Chair. Okay. Mr. Tucker with the motion. Mr. Cato with the second. All those in favor of entering executive session, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Basil, how do you vote for executive session? All right. Vote is unanimous. We're now in executive session. All right. Thank you, gentlemen. Motion to come out of executive session. Council entered executive session. We did receive a legal brief on an economic development matter and received attorney-client-privileged information. No votes were taken.

» No votes will be taken out of executive session. Is there a motion to exit executive session? Madam Chair, I make a motion to come out of executive session. Okay. Mr. Tucker with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cato. All those in favor of coming out of executive session? Okay. Discussion on coming out of executive session? Any comment, Mr. Jones? Okay. All those in favor of coming out of executive session, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Basil, how do you vote? Okay. In favor. The vote is unanimous. We are now out of executive session. That brings us up to item number 17, adjournment. Madam Chair, I have a motion to adjourn. Please, ma'am. Mr. Tucker with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Brasel with the second. Is there any discussion? Go home. Mr.

» Jones? I've enjoyed being here just four hours with you guys. Thank you. All right. All those in favor of adjourning this meeting, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Brasel, Mr. Cato, Mr. Thompson. All right. This meeting is adjourned. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right.