Full meeting transcript - February 27, 2024

» many to order, and if we could, Mr. Sammy Tucker, will you do the invocation and pledge allegiance, please? Yes, sir. Can we all stand, please? Let us all bow our heads and open our hearts as we come to the Lord. Lord, Father God Almighty, we thank you once again for this day. We thank you for all the lovely and beautiful things you continue to do in our lives. And today, Lord, we ask a special prayer that you bless the hearts and the minds of the gentlemen and the ladies that are up here on this dais, that you touch their hearts and their minds and give them direction and give them discernment, Lord Father, give them wisdom and understanding.

» Lord Father, we ask now that you take care of our men and women who are serving and protecting our freedoms and liberties, and let them never be forgotten, even the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice. As we get ready to depart from this place to go back to our various destinations, let us find our homes in peace and in order, Lord Father, protected by your love and guiding grace. We ask these things in your son, Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, we're moving down to number four, adoption of the agenda. Excuse me. Do I have a motion to adopt the agenda? Mr. Vice Chair, make a motion to adopt the agenda.

» A motion made by? I'll second. Tucker, okay, second by Thomason. I do have any discussion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to amend the agenda, and the motion would specifically be three small amendments. I would like to move that we, one, move item 8 to item 4B, or 4A, basically move item 8, just under item 4, that we remove item 6, and that we remove item 9C. Okay. 9C is on the, I'll second that. Okay. Any discussion on the amendment? Yes, Mr. Chairman, on the, as to 9C, 9C deals with an ordinance that I've been working on that sort of redefines the definition of minor subdivision.

» I've talked to a couple of my colleagues up here individually and understand there's some concerns with some of that, so rather than sort of move forward with something that may be problematic, I'd like a chance to kind of go back and look at that and see if I can find something that we might be able to find a good compromise on, so that's why I'd like to remove that.

» My understanding is the reason we're removing the public hearing is the notice, we needed the 30 days notice, and so we don't have those 30 days, so it's, we just need to move it to the next meeting, so we will have that, it'll just be at the next meeting, and then I don't want to speak with Councilman Brasel, but I believe it's, it's more convenient for everyone's schedule so that we can have a discussion with the actual auditor to move that up. I think, is that fair, Councilman Brasel? Yes. Yes, sir. Those are the reasonings for my motion. You're very good. Is there any other discussion? All in favor of the amendment as stated, let the, let it show that Brasel, Tucker, Shoemake, and Cato and Thompson voted in favor along with Jimmy Jones, so it's unanimous.

» So we're going to now take the vote to adopt the agenda as stated with the amendment. Is there a motion? I would move to, okay, go ahead. I would move to adopt the agenda as amended. I didn't think you need to do that. You just need to vote it on the amended, amended agenda. Okay. We did vote on that. You voted on the amendments. Now we're voting to adopt the agenda as amended. The ordinance as amended, correct. Do I have a motion on that? Mr. Brantley's already, I meant Mr. Shoemake, and I'll second. Any other discussion? All in favor, let the record show this unanimously, Brasel, Tucker, Shoemake, Cato, and Thomason, and myself. Thank you so much, gentlemen. All right.

» So having said that, let's go ahead and take the item 4B, and do I have someone to make a motion that we go into discussion on that? Mr. Brantley. Yeah. I'll make the motion. I'd like to make a motion to, for all of county council to be updated on our 2008 defeasement of the general obligation bond. I'd like to ask Mr. Mark Wood, if he could come up and brief us on that. Okay. We got a, Mr. Brantley, you made a motion on that? Second. Second by Tucker. Any discussion? No discussion. Send your hands right now. I'd just like to ask Mark to come up and brief us on the defeasement of the 2008 bonds. Two minutes or less? No, I'm just kidding. I wouldn't make it in one minute. Glad the way you think. Thank you all for having me, and it's a pleasure to be here with you tonight.

» As I think it was discussed in the last meeting, council meeting, I have met with Councilman Brazel and subsequently the Finance Committee about trying to look at ways to defeat some of the county's debt. And I guess just make some clarifications on what my recommendations were. But as I spoke to the Finance Committee, I had the cash that was available on hand as of 6-30-23 in the sewer fund. I was not aware that there is a match for a skip grant that y'all are required to provide. And so I didn't have that information, unfortunately, when I met with Councilman Brazel to begin with. And so I had told him, yeah, there was money in there that you probably could have defeased probably both of those bonds.

» However, once I found out that there was a earmark of those funds and how much that was, I kind of went back and said, okay, well, let's try to do what they've done, what the administrator and finance staff has done over the last couple of years. And that's continue to make an additional principal payment. So for the end of May of 23, you pay 300 and I believe it was $340,000 on the 2008 A bond and the county made a $205,000 payment on the 2008 B bond. So with the payments through today, and my understanding is the 2008 B bond has subsequently been paid off. So you no longer have that debt. But as of today, and I'm not aware of any additional principal payment made yet on the 2008 A bond, but your balance as of through today should be around about $1.2 million.

» So my recommendation was to the Finance Committee is that you continue to try to find ways or use reserves as allowed as you have them, as you feel comfortable with the decisions that Council has made to earmark some money for projects, you would continue to make those accelerated payments for the 2008 A bond. And so, you know, I think the discussion was, depending on how aggressive and how much the reserves would be, you could potentially pay off. So right now that 2008 A bond goes through November of 27. But as long as you've got reserves and they're not earmarked for something, I would, I mean, there's no harm in you making aggressive payments to try to get, reduce that debt down. And so you very well could get that reduced down to next fiscal year or even the fiscal year after that.

» So, I mean, that's, that's all, you know, up to Council. I mean, that, that's y'all's decision. But, you know, the, my only recommendation was you don't want to pay off the bonds and then all of a sudden you've got to go out and borrow money because now you wanted to do a project or you spent the money to pay off the bonds that need to be earmarked for a project. Then you've got to go borrow money at a higher rate because these bonds are pretty low rate. And right now you're not going to get that rate again. And so that was my only, um, thought was, you know, try to use an aggressive approach. And I think that's what the administrator has done over the last couple of years in making these advanced principal payments, try to continue to do that with the A bond.

» And then once you get the 2008 A bond, then you can decide what's, what's the next debt to tackle. Do you start tackling some of the general obligation bonds or you try to start tackling the SRF loan that's in the sewer fund? So, um, that was, that was kind of my discussion with the finance committee and I'll be happy to answer whatever questions anybody might have. Any questions? Uh, just some discussion. Go ahead. So the goal, my goal in, in doing this, I'm looking back at some notes. What did we talk two months ago? Mm-hmm. Initially was a 2024 bond restructuring. So this is just an initiative to get Kershaw County out of debt. Um, we all know that the government's in more debt than it needs to be in, whether it's local, state or federal.

» Um, the approach was that we defies bonds, um, one at a time so that we don't fall into that trap that you mentioned. Uh, the first one was a 2008 B for $668,070. The second one, and at the time that bond was not paid off, correct? That is correct. When we spoke, it was not paid off. Right. So I'll take a minute to tell, uh, our administrator Danny Templar, thank you for taking the initiative and the finance team. Do you want to debrief us on how that happened? Sure. Again, to Mark's point, we've been aggressive with our payments, um, because of the, uh, debt service reserves that has allowed us to, to be aggressive. And obviously the, these were low interest, uh, bonds, but, um, they, it made the most sense to go and attack these two. They were the lowest balance.

» So that payment was made yesterday. As a matter of fact, um, it was accepted. So that bond, uh, 2008 B stands as zero balance right now. Um, we will continue to, uh, use that same approach for the 2008, a bond. I, again, looking to, if all goes well using, um, debt service reserves, not pulling into anything else, because again, to Mr. Wood's point, we have a $7 million match for our skip grant for the, uh, one million gallon a day, uh, sewer expansion, which is to kind of have a fence around that. Um, but we still have obligations with maintenance with our sewer, um, operation as well. So debt service reserves makes the most sense to attack this debt. So we, again, will be going after 2008 day. I feel pretty good that we can get that knocked out, um, potentially two years early. Okay.

» So the 2008, a geo bond, um, there's $1,438,211 at the end of last fiscal year, June 30th, 2023. Um, Mark, you stated it's, it's currently around 1.2 million. Yeah, because you, you may, so that bond has quarterly payments. And so you're, you're making payments. You would have had a payment in August of 23, November of 23, and February of 24. So you would have made your third payment on that bond. You have another payment that's due in May. So with those three, with those three principal payments that you've made, that's reduced that debt down to about 1.2 million dollars. So with that being said, I think we had, um, passed that. We had an SRF geo bond for $3.8 million, $3,804,713. That's correct. So would, would that be the third? Yes. It's at 5% right now. So that's my next target.

» Okay. Yes. So that, that's basically what you and I talked about in your, in your office was, was one, two, and three, uh, striking with the one with the lowest balance first and working our way up to the larger ones. Um, item number four is a 2021 geo bond for 5,125,000. And, um, then the biggest one being a facilities bond at 9.8 million. Um, I think those were the five that we felt were most concerning and that we felt like we could operate in that order. So maybe over the course of the next four to six years, we could defease. I don't know that we could defease the largest of them, but I think we could defease at least, uh, the top three or four.

» Is, is there a way that you can work with the administration and come up with a amortization schedule that would stair-step this maybe over the next six years? I mean, I'll be happy to, I'll be happy to, to work with them and provide whatever information that, you know, would be useful to, to do that. So what I don't want to happen is to talk about it today and not talk about it tomorrow. I want to come up with a plan that we can put in place and we can stick with it and become debt free. Actually, if I could, uh, Mr. Templars County Administrator, could you make sure you follow up on what Mr. Brouser's request is? Yes. Thank you. So I'm, I'm thrilled to know that we got the first one paid off. I applaud you. I appreciate you doing that.

» Um, for me, that shows that he's taking initiative as our administrator. Uh, we began this discussion earlier this year and it didn't take, it didn't take a lot of discussion for him to think, Hey, this is a good idea. He, he jumped on, on board, like the idea, work with staff and made it happen. So I applaud you in that. Thank you, sir. All right. Any other discussion? Let me just say this then, gentlemen, I want to thank you, Mr. Brouser for bringing this up and Mr. Templar, thank you for following up and make sure that his requests are going to be met within the next six months. I think, you know, I have been a strong proponent of paying off bonds and Mark, you know, that the 18 years that I've been here, uh, I was against the 17.2 economic development bond.

» It was, I think it was, I was the only sole vote out of it, but I told them they need to pay that bond off. And I showed them where they could do it with monies on hand without borrowing more money from the citizens. We could do it with monies that we had on hand. Of course, anyway, they ended up spending about four or five million of that money and then they ended up paying it off. Am I correct? So they actually did what I had suggested they do at that point in time. But anyway, thank you, sir. We appreciate you being here. And, uh, again, Mr. Brouser, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank y'all. Thank you, sir. Okay. Uh, before we, before we move on, I need to, and of course we changed the agenda around a little bit guys. So, and I certainly support it. Mr.

» Tucker, would you mind? We're going to be going into public comments, read the rules on public comments, please. Uh, yes, sir. Let's post them up. And, uh, let's see. Can you go through the rules for me, please? Because I don't have them before me. Put them up. All right. There we go. Oh, still agenda. There we go. Thank you. Public comments, guidelines. So they can read with me. Public comment. It's an opportunity for members of the public to share information with council. It is not time for debate or, uh, with or questions and answers from council. There's a time for council to receive input. It is not a time for council response. In short, during public comment, council will listen to public comment, but not comment on public comment.

» Offensive inappropriate comments will not be tolerated. If a group would like to speak to council, we request that a spokesperson be selected and that this person indicate the group he or she is representing on the signup sheet and in his, in his or her comments. Public comment is a time to discuss issues. Public comment period is limited to five minutes maximum allowed per individual speaker. Public comments to council as an agenda item shall continue uninterrupted to be live streamed by audio and video where available until the public comments agenda items is finished and concluded. Uh, these rules may be altered or amended by county council by single vote, including, but not limited to when the agenda item is, uh, reached. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Very good.

» Let me, I have a couple of comments I'm going to make. Oh, first off, I need to say this, that, uh, if you, for all those with the press and the media and citizens, if you'll see the fire marshal has designated and by order of the fire marshal certain places for a tripods to be set. And I think this is good because it, it gives everybody an understanding of what the council is trying to do and what the public's, uh, is able to do. I think we've got enough space for about maybe six tripods in here, which we've never had more than one or two and we welcome them. And, uh, but bottom line is they, they must stay within that boundary of the fire marshal within that yellow block. Okay. That is, or, and Mr. I think a fire marshal is here.

» Have you got anything you want to say about it? I appreciate you. Would you tell me what your plaque says that you put up there on the wall? Okay. Preserved press area. The fire marshal put it up there. I want to thank Gerald Blanchard for coming up with this suggestion and thanks staff for handling it. Cause we want to make sure that we're in compliance with the laws. And I think the public as well too. And the public has a right to know what to expect when they come in here. It's as simple as that. All right. But I have some comments I want to make. So, and then we'll, we'll open it up.

» A huge majority of citizens think County Council meetings are out of control by letting a few people create confusion over and over again at the expense of the vast majority of our citizens in Kershaw County. But folks, our rules will be followed and offensive and inappropriate comments will not be tolerated. We need to stick to appropriate comments to public issues. I was elected by the citizens five times to represent them and selected by this kind of council as vice chair to chair the meeting. So let's be clear that we are a nation of laws and rules. And this council has adopted rules to run an orderly meeting. But everybody will be heard here who wants to speak. I can promise you that if I'm presiding over the meeting.

» And if I'm not, I will call a point of order as I have done in the past 17 years, we're going to conduct business and follow the rules. So with that being said, who is the first speaker for tonight? I believe it is Ted Brunson. The subject is development. Welcome. Good evening. Um, Ted Brunson live 2406 Marietta Lake Road, other side of Springdale. This is going to be a three part public speak for me. Last night, I hit the send button at about 11 o'clock to send over 70 recipients, both in the city and the county. I've got 10 copies here. I'd like to pass out in case it went to... Mr. Templer, would you get those, please? ...in case it went to the spam. But if it did, it didn't make any difference. I'll send each one of y'all an individual so you can have exactly what I was talking about.

» And then I'm going to talk about it at the end. I'm going to dovetail off of what the gentleman was just talking about as far as debt. I came here back in 1987, had a small paint store up in the Dusty Bend area, had a couple of life changes, turned around left, moved to Fort Mill, stayed up there until 2018, moved back here 2019, built a house. So custom built, everything that I used was from here. What Fort Mill did in 2018 was initiate a impact fee. The impact fee had normally been around $1,500. They moved it to $28,000. And that the way that they did it is they just said, county council, $28,000. And basically it was broken down to single family homes. The single family home, anything as far as apartments, it was $100,000 for four apartments.

» Any apartment over that was another $15,000. Two things happened. They got a lot of money in the coffers. And then the other thing that happened was bigger homes that had less impact owned the current facilities, were moved in. They had a higher tax base. The existing homes that were there that were for sale, they went up because they didn't have to pay the $28,000. So that was one way where they slowed down the growth, got better homes, got more custom homes that used the materials from around. I stopped by today and stopped by Camden Building Supply. And the two working developments that they are now up the road, not a single piece of equipment, sheetrock, brick or mud has been bought from them. I stopped by Sherwin-Williams. Sherwin-Williams has a corporate deal.

» The Sherwin-Williams store out there on DeKalb simply is just a waypoint. They don't make any more money off of it because the deal was cut at corporate. Very, very few things maybe other than gas and meals are being reinvested into this community because of how they're building the houses. So that was one thing that I wanted to get over. Last year, Camden had 168 permits issued that came out at the existing at $840,000 worth of money. If they had used a $25,000 impact fee, that had been $4.2 million. So in my book and how I run my checkbook, City of Camden and Kershaw County left $3.360 million on the table. If we were to take the two next biggest things that are coming up, the CTC and the Maverick Hills, Maverick Hills at 350 houses, that's $1.7 million.

» At $5,000 a piece, it'd be $8,750,000. That means that Camden will leave $7 million on the table. This is all things that y'all could do. In talking to the police chief and the fire chief, the fire chief is well staffed. He does like new equipment. I think he's probably like a golfer and there's always a new putter or driver that you can buy. But using the volunteer staff and what he has on staff right now and understanding that we've got 11,000 people if we don't bring anybody else into the city, he's okay with that. However, in talking to the police chief, the police chief is currently short four people right now.

» If you take the 4.7 average of the new homes that are coming in, the chief is going, the police chief is going to need at least 10 more officers over the next three years if current building stays on track. That will cost each one of us one mil per officer. I've asked for, since they're in a budget area right now, I've asked for revised figures so we can not only know how much it costs for a police officer, which right now in Camden is $44,000. Add 30% to that to cover his benefits and insurance and things of that nature. But that does not include his equipment. So I've asked for both from the fire chief and the city police. Because as you bring more people in and spreading us out, the people who are the been here's are going to end up paying for the come here's. And I think Mr.

» Roy brought that to our light the last time. I'll ask you to read it. I'll pass out some of these to the other people. I'm part of Patch. Patch stands preserving a tradition and Camden's heritage. Thank you so much. Thank you all. Next speaker. Next speaker is Amanda Oaten on the litter ordinance. Welcome. As you can see, my notes since it was taken off the agenda have been a little rearranged. So I ask you bear with me. Councilman, staff, Mr. Templer, Mr. DuBose, thank you for having me here tonight. I do want to thank you for your service to our community. I know where you sit is not an easy place to sit. And so I thank you for that. And I just ask that you'll listen to me this evening with open ears and an open heart.

» I'm here to talk on the litter ordinance, which has been given a couple of more weeks. And I'm glad to hear that because I want to lay something on you tonight. We do have a litter problem here in Kershaw County, especially in our rural areas. I was born and raised in Cassett, South Carolina. I and my husband have chosen to stay there and spend the rest of our days there in Cassett. And we are proud to be citizens of that area. I remember a time when citizens had pride in their communities. But lately, we feel that there's a lack of respect for our land and our way of life, and that our voices are just not being heard. Driving through the country, we see our land pillaged and our wildlife displaced, our infrastructure overloaded with development.

» Also, that someone, oftentimes not even from this county, can make a quick buck, ride off in the dark of night and leave us, us, the taxpayer, to foot the bill and to deal with their trash. Back, it used to be where all you really had to worry about was a deer crossing the road. Now we are worried about logs that have fallen off of log trucks, damaging our vehicles as we drive down the road at night. But my point is, we are still voting. I understand the second reading removed some verbiage, and I'm anxious to see that. I think that was a move in the right direction. But we are still voting to place another law or ordinance on the books for our officers to enforce when they are barely staffed to keep up with the laws and ordinance that are already on the books.

» Now I have seen that Kershaw County Sheriff's Department's hiring. I'm assuming some money is coming somewhere for that, and I am glad to see it. They have been stretched way too thin for way too long, but why now? And is it because of litter? You know, why not to combat rural crime? I don't know where the money's coming from or why, so I'm not making any assumptions. But, you know, why not to help solve crimes such as damage or personal property theft out in the rural areas? Or why not get back the blue to battle the fentanyl crisis that we all know is infiltrating our border and landing in our backyards? And I can guarantee everyone in this room has been affected by that.

» So why litter and why now? On this ordinance, I ask why bring in the iron fist instead of trying to first offer a solution with incentives and praise with the public to promote community outreach, community involvement, and cooperation with all all of you. I remember when there were deposits on cans and bottles, which takes up a lot of the trash that's being thrown out on our highways. An adopt-a-highway program where a community would adopt two miles, and for the mere price of a sign, a little small sign of recognition on each end. And those were effective things. I see the Kershaw County Clean Commission, Kershaw County Clean County Commission has put out a county-wide date on the 23rd of March.

» These are things, I know that one of these things individually may not make a big difference, but together, these incentive programs and working with our communities may be a better route than an ordinance that will be permanent on the books. In addition to that, I would like to remind that in 2018, Kershaw County received the All-American City Award. It was one of 10 in all of the United States. And I'm going to make this brief, and if I go over five seconds, please bear with me, but I think this is important. The 10 communities demonstrated civic engagement practices that are inspirational, inclusive, and promising in their ability to unite members of the community to help solve issues. Let's get back to 2018.

» There's nothing wrong with tabling this for no certain amount of time and trying one of these other options with incentives and cooperation within our communities and our government and our council. And let me say this too, thank you for your service in our community as well. Thank you, and I thank you for your time this evening. Glad to see you. Good to see you tonight. Next speaker, please. Tom Webb. Subject is war. I'm so war. War community. No, war. Okay. Welcome. I love to see volunteers picking up trash. And we could have a buyback program where you look at it on a can. It's got state, South Carolina should be on there. A can could be worth a nickel or 10 cents. A bottle is the same. But I was born during World War II, and I remember the Korean War, and I served in Vietnam.

» Seems like always some kind of war going on somewhere now. Iraq, Afghanistan, the Cold War. Lots of people died. You go to France and Normandy, there were rows and rows and rows of crosses, dead people. 53,000 names on the Vietnam wall. Korea has been referred to sometimes as the forgotten war. But I remember it. The chosen, frozen in northern Korea in the winter. It was really cold, brutally cold. And the Chinese came across the border. That's when the Chinese first got into it at the chosen reservoir in North Korea. They bayoneted some of our guys in their sleeping bags. And somebody yelled out, they're inside the perimeter. Something you don't want to hear. Well, they reformed a perimeter of a sort. And they fought. And our guys backed out. They were surrounded at times.

» But they fought their way out, leaving their dead behind. And what was that all about? Well, it's for freedom. It's for freedom. A lot of lives have been lost for freedom and disrupted as well. People who didn't die disrupted lives. As far as Vietnam, some say it was just political. But I believed in the domino theory, where one after another country would fall until the U.S. stood alone. And it's been borne out. Canada is lost, I'm afraid. Trudeau is pretty much a communist. Mexico has the drug cartels, etc. I don't know what's going on there. But it's worse than that, because they're inside the perimeter right here in this country. Pressivism keeps nibbling at our freedom. We've had so much freedom, we think we can shuck it off for some important purpose. But when it's gone, it's gone.

» And then what next? We'll do it again and again. I've seen it here in Kershaw County. You wouldn't believe it, but I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen council in the past enact some ordinances and not enact some other ordinances. We've had some really good people show up to speak against some of these ordinances. But there is a church ordinance, a church sign ordinance, where a church out in the boondocks can't have a sign on their property requesting donations for missions or padding the pew or whatever. A pastor can't go out next to the road and ask for donations. It goes very much against the First Amendment. And then there's a tobacco ordinance. You can't chew tobacco, you can't smoke tobacco. Indians can't have any kind of ceremony with tobacco on land that used to be theirs.

» And it goes much further. It's a 10-foot boundary along roads. You have a road and you have a space between the road and the private property. It's actually on private property. But beyond that is 10 more feet where you can't smoke a cigarette and you can't chew tobacco. We need to get rid of that. That's progressivism, gradually converting our private property into public property. So there are too many ghosts looking over your shoulders for you to be careless with freedom. Progressives want to manage, micromanage our religion and our private property. So read between the lines. Look for the intent. Don't play their game. Too many people have died for freedom. Too many people have died. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Jeff Maddox. The subject is rules for thee. Welcome. Hey guys.

» We're also, I appreciate the debt thing. I really do. That's one thing we all, Jimmy's been after for years, I know that. We do need to get out of debt. You know, debt, we're all slaves to the lender at that point. And, uh, so I do appreciate that boys. Um, I do need to speak to the camera issue last meeting. I think a lot of us were in shock. I know I was, um, it seems that this falls under this idea of decorum and what does that mean? Let's define what decorum is. I mean, it could mean almost anything at this point. Do I, you know, can I, uh, do I have to film from a certain position or whatever, or, or perhaps, uh, I don't want anybody to leave until a certain break time because of decorum. Um, I'm concerned about that.

» I'm concerned about the absence, but this idea that, that we can just spring these things anytime, anywhere for any reason. And then it's approved because it's a decorum. I think that we need to, uh, address that situation. I don't know how, I don't know what you guys might think about doing with it. You know, I do like the idea of us discussing matters, whether we agree or disagree. I, I, I've told you this many times. I want to have the discussions because through those discussions, through those debates, sometimes eat it, we all learn from each other. And that's what we're all about. And, and the ideas of how do we get back to what we had, although we're in this new technological age.

» So I invite any of you to sit down and I don't know the drink of your favorite choice and we'll say, save the world, shake hands and go home. But I think it's important that we understand where our country is now. And like Tom Webb said, we got enemies in the perimeter. We really do. Some people laugh at that. Well, you look at it, you look at the national security state and the surveillance that we're under all the time and that smartphone and the tracking and everything and the digital currency that's coming. All this is, it's might be, might seem like, oh, great. I don't have to, uh, do anything, but wheel my stuff out of Walmart and it automatically, you know, checks me out. But they know everything. And with knowing everything, they control everything.

» What are you going to do to protect all these people? These are things. You know, I talk about community and everything, because that's important. Y'all know that. You love the community, community commission. I haven't done enough. I know that. Some people have done more than me. Some people have done a hell of a lot less. But we're all on this great big marble together. That's all I can tell you guys. I love you. Have a good evening. Thank you. Next speaker, please. That concludes the speakers. Okay. Let me find my place. Who is it? Yes. Please come on up. Please come on up. Does anybody object? Listen, I, I, I, you know, the, the, the thing about it is we, we really want to hear from everybody and, and I appreciate you speaking up as quick as you did that.

» Um, all of you have already received this. I just want to speak into my, miss. I need to bring it down a little bit. I have a big mouth, but is that better? Thank you. Okay. State your name again, please. Julie Strickland. Thank you. I just want to, all of you have already received this. I just want to read it into the record, if that's okay. Um, over the last several months, the Camden Training Center development has come to the forefront in the greater Camden area. During this time, a great deal of misinformation, rumors, and lack of accurate information has been circulating. While attending one council meeting, the other council meeting is being conducted at the same time. To some citizens of the Camden, Kershaw County, that may look like a divide and conquer tactic.

» The information flow between councils seems at times to be non-existent. One council seems to either contradict the other council, or the other council has no idea of the topic under consideration by the other. This leads the public to believe some type of backroom deals are or have been cut. While we hope none of that is true, it surely makes one think that there is a severe lack of transparency. This type of behavior was clearly evident when the first substantial meeting concerning the CTC was scheduled for November 21st, but was not posted until November 16th. Add the simple fact that the 21st was only two days before Thanksgiving, which is the busiest travel time of the entire year. It was not a good look for council. There was a lot of comments and grumbling about that very fact.

» That was something that should not happen under any circumstances. In fact, at moments like this, both councils should be in complete communication with the other. All aspects of the CTC and other land development should be considered and properly vetted. Based on what has been conveyed between the citizenry at the public meetings, this has not been happening. The actions of both councils at this very moment will determine how Camden, Kershaw County will look in 50 years. We will either be a suburb of Columbia with a lost identity or the historic home of both revolutionary and civil war actions, but more importantly the birthplace of the equine heritage in the south.

» The gifts handed down by Mary DuPont Scott to the state of South Carolina will be forever forgotten based on what these councils do in the very near future. We are proposing a joint session of the city and county council to meet their constituents of Camden and Kershaw County at the city arena for further discussion on future of CTC and Camden, Kershaw County rapid development changes in general. You would think complete openness with direct lines of communication among all parties, councils and the public included is paramount at this critical time forming Camden and Kershaw County future. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Mr. Templer, would you make some notes on that and just notify council if anything is going on. Thank you. Yes, sir.

» Okay, that ends the public speaking and I truly do appreciate each and every person that got up and spoke. I think that's the way it should be and I really do appreciate that. Let's move on to, I think we're on ordinance nine or seven. I'm sorry. Number seven. Yes, sir. Item number seven, approval of the minutes. Make a motion we approve the minutes. Second. Okay, we have Kato made the motion. Who second? Mr. Tucker. All right, any discussion? All in favor? Let it be shown that the approval of minutes is unanimous. By the way, too, let me just say to the chairwoman Katie Gwynn uh called, stated that she was going to be unable to be here tonight due to an obligation. So, uh, I'm chair in the meeting as the vice chair. Thank you. Okay. Did you get that? Ms. Hannah? Good. Okay.

» Now we're on 9A, correct? Yes, Mr. Chair. Yes. All right. We have 9As, which is third reading of an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of Kershaw County to rezone approximately plus minus 0.92 acres of property. And, uh, it's with an address of 1523 Bradley Road, Camden, South Carolina from an R10, uh, medium density residential district to a GD general developed district. Do I have a motion to put this on the floor? I'll make a motion that we pass third reading of the ordinance. All right. Mr. Councilman Thomas makes the motions. Councilman Sammy Tucker makes the second discussion. Um, just to kind of give a brief on, you know, this being third reading, um, Mr. Dale, correct. Um, yep.

» He's, he's been here and this, this rezoning, we've had, um, a little bit of discussion on it, but it's rezoning of a property, uh, where he is hopes he owns the adjacent property, um, and would like to have some more warehousing storage space. He's been a very good steward of the community. Um, I'm very happy to support the third reading of this ordinance. Okay. Uh, any further discussion? I just want to, uh, ditto what, uh, Councilman Thomason just said. Um, uh, this gentleman has displayed to us, um, is, um, willing to abide by and follow all of our laws and ordinance. And, uh, he just wants to rezone his property so he can further his business and I will not be a hindrance tonight. Thank you. All in favor, let the record show that it's unanimous on third reading. All right.

» Going to nine B second reading and amended and restated ordinance to create a joint multi-county business park with Lee County. Is there a motion to put this on the floor? Make a motion that we, um, approve second reading on the joint county, uh, business park. Motion made by Mr. Tucker. Is there a second? Second. Uh, yes, you may. Danny got me. Okay. Mr. Kato, Mr. Kato made a second. Okay. Discussion. Mr. Tucker. Um, no, it's, uh, I just want to make sure from, um, our attorney, Mr. DeVose, no changes from first reading, has it been? Um, the only change from first reading, I believe, is the full property description for the evergreen solar property was added. I think there was a placeholder on first reading, but that's the only change. That's a full population of that legal description.

» Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Any other discussion? Okay. Let it all be in favor of second reading. Nine B. Raise your hand. Okay. Let the director show that it's unanimous. Brasel, Tucker, Shoemake, um, Kato and, uh, Thomason and Jones. Thank you all in favor. Okay. Now we have deleted course C. All right. Moving on over to D. Nine D. First reading, it'll be of an ordinance. To amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulation, Section 313, Tables 3 and 4, to provide greater clarity to the distinction in maximum allowed residential dwelling densities between single family residential development and multi-family, excuse me, multi-family apartment development.

» Do I have a motion to put that on the floor? I move that we put it on the floor. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Motion made by, uh, Councilman Shoemake, seconded by Councilman Thomason. Is there a discussion, Mr. Shoemake? Just a quick explanation. There isn't much, this, months ago we increased our minimum lot sizes and increased, or decreased maximum density and increased minimum lot sizes. Uh, this is basically just to be, uh, my reading of, and I think, uh, most reading of it was clear that our intention was always 4.35 was the maximum density for residential units with 6.7 being the maximum density for apartments. This just specifically says that.

» So all this amendment does is clarify to the extent it needed clarification, which I'd argue that it did not, that the maximum density is 4.35 for residential areas or residential units. Like that would be, you know, anything from quadplex, townhouse, triplex, single family, and the, uh, maximum density for apartments is 6.71. That's what this does. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. Any other discussion? So Mr. uh, vice chair, if I can. So our, um, amendments is basically exhibit one that's in our packet. Yes. With the striket through. Right. Right. Okay. And as you can see, it's really just three or four pretty minor changes. Absolutely. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other discussion? All right. All in favor? Raise your hands.

» Let it be shown that Brazel, Tucker, um, Shoemake, Cato and Thomson and Jones, all in favor, unanimous. Okay. Thank you. All right. Let's move to number two, item 10 resolutions, a resolution authorizing the approval of an, and of an execution of a lease agreement by and between United Way of Kershaw County and Kershaw County. They have a motion to put that on the floor. I'll move to put it on the floor. Is there? Shoemake makes a motion. Is there a second? Second. Doctor makes a second. Any discussion? Shoemake, you'd like to start? Um, I guess just if the county administrator or legal could sort of brief us on just exactly what this does. Yes.

» Uh, so what this does, we are statutorily required to provide spaces for, uh, DSS department and department of health and human services, which is also known as Medicaid. Um, so we, we house these entities in the United Way building and we lease the office space from them. This, these are typically 10 year leases, and this is just, uh, updating the lease, uh, monetarily to reflect current costs. And this also just renews the lease so we can continue again to honor our statutory requirement from the state to provide spaces for these two entities, DSS and Medicaid. This is another one of those unfunded mandate deals. Yes, sir. So, well, I appreciate you finding money for things that, you know, we don't have a choice but to do. Um, so obviously our hands are tied. We have to do the right.

» We would be in violation of state law if we didn't provide the space. Correct. And this is a large space. So, um, I think it's 15,000 square feet or something like that. It's, it's, it's, it'd be really hard to find. And, um, so, but, uh, Donnie and his staff have always done a really good job for us. So this is the best solution. All right. Very good. Any other discussion? Yeah, I have a question. So this is, this is the same space that we've been in. Is that correct? Yes. Is the, uh, the terms and the payment the same as the amount of money changed at all? Yes. The amount of money has, because again, this was a 10 year lease. So we're just, we've had discussion and we've, we've, um, um, agreed upon that it will increase $3,000 a month. So it went from 12 to 15,000 a month. Correct.

» So will that happen every year, Mr. Templer, or, um, that will, that will remain the same for every year throughout the life of the lease, which is 10 years, 10 years. Very good. Any further discussion? All right. Having said that, all in favor, raise your hand. All right. Let it be shown that Sammy Tucker, Derek Shoemake, um, Danny Cato and, uh, Brent Thompson voted in favor, all, and Jimmy Jones votes in favor, all against. Be shown to Russell Browse votes against. Thank you, sir. Motion carries. All right. Let's move into number 11, new business. Let me say this too. Uh, going through this agenda packet, and I should have said, should have said something earlier. Excuse me. He's not speaking in the mic. Um, I really want the names, Mr. Templer.

» I really want the names of each individual who puts something on the agenda, whether it's me or, or, or one of my colleagues, make sure that, or if it's the administration or the finance committee, I just like that. I think we've talked about that multiple times. Let's just make sure that it's done on each individual reading and, uh, setting up of the agenda. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Moving into new business 24, 25 budget priorities placed on the agenda by Katie Gwynn. Is there a motion to discuss this? I would move to discuss it or whatever we need to do. All right. What do we need to do, Mr. Mr.

» Templer? Um, just, this is, uh, I wanted to bring forward to y'all what was discussed and decided upon and, and, and just kind of the ranking structure that we used to, uh, rank the priorities from our, um, uh, 24, 25 budget retreat. So in front of you or in your packet, you'll see the, um, high priorities are, which are, um, our operational initiatives. The, uh, medium priorities and the low priorities as you remember from our retreat that, uh, we were able to get this in front of y'all and let y'all rate whether each individual item was a high medium or low priority. Um, if at the top of this, if, uh, from a numerical standpoint, a high priority item was valued at three, a medium priority was valued at two and a low priority was valued at one.

» So if you just do the multiplication down through the column there and then sum it to the right, you'll get the ranking structure there. That's, that's how we were able to numerically rate these items within each individual category, high, medium, and low. So it's pretty easy on low priority. We only had one item there. Um, so, but more importantly, the high priorities, you'll see, um, um, just for example, elevated starting salary general fund full-time to minimum $15 for an hour. That was the highest rated. Excuse me. Hold it in just a little bit, please. Thank you. Or at least smash your mic. Okay. You have a hard time hearing over there. Well, I can hear y'all, but Mr. Templer, thank you so much for your work that you put into this. Yes.

» I don't agree with it, but it, but it's what we have. All right. Is Mr. Vice Chairman, uh, I would like to make a motion that we approve these, um, priorities that, uh, the staff has taken time to gather our information on so we can, uh, give a clear guidance moving forward with our budget. Very good. There's a motion on the floor to accept it. Is there a second? Any further discussion? I'd just like to point out just for folk certification. There obviously is still more budget work to be done. Um, we're still, you know, there's still a couple of department heads and elected officials that we need to, to hear from.

» These are obviously the big picture priorities, but I just don't want people to think that sort of if something's not on this list, it's somehow not something we're looking at or not a priority. Fair point. And if I may, just as, as I build the budget, I look and try to include as many high priorities, medium and low priorities as this is, sometimes it's a mix based on the available funds. So not everything high priority will be funded. And again, it's just, we try to certainly address everything in here, but not everything on both of these pages will be included in the budget. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Any further discussion? All right. All in favor, raise your hand.

» Let the record show that Russell Brazel, Sammy Tucker, Derek Shoemake, Danny Cato, and Brent Thomason voted in favor and let the record show Jimmy Jones voted against. Moving down to 11B Finance Committee, FY25 Workshop dates placed on the agenda by Mr. Tucker. Go ahead. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. Before you should have in your packet the outline for two periods of, okay, just one for the work dates for the Finance Committee, March, starting March 8th, and going through March 11th. We're going to be doing these in the afternoon from 3.30 to 5 p.m. And these are the tentative dates that the Finance Committee has agreed upon. If we need more, we will schedule more. And staff is working on scheduling folks. That's why you don't see a department by there to be determined.

» Give those dates again for the record, please. Okay. March 8th, March 19th, March 21st, March 28th, April 2nd, April 4th, and April 11th. And I realize we have them, but I just want to make sure we're clear. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Publicly in the meeting. We're hoping to start with our elected officials since they were put on hold during the retreat and then move forward from there. Okay. Do we need to vote on it? It says approval by council on the agenda. Yes, I would like to have an approval. Then I would make a motion that we accept these budget retreat dates. All right. I'll second. Workshop dates. Workshop dates. Councilman Schumer made the motion and Councilman Thomason second. Is there any further discussion? All right. All in favor? Let the record show that it's unanimous. Okay.

» Moving down to C. Kershaw Kenney's proposed schedule for fiscal year 25 budget readings approved by council, placed on the agenda by Councilman Sammy Tucker. I have a motion to put this on the floor. Yes, Mr. Vice Chair, make a motion that we approve the proposed schedule for our 24-25 budget readings. And the dates are there before you, April 23rd, May 28th, and June 25th. That is my motion. All right. Is there a second? Second. Councilman Schumer makes seconds. Is there any discussion? Yes, sir. I think it's self-explanatory. Go ahead. Yes, it is. I'm going to say, you see it there, first reading and title only. I don't think staff has any objections with these dates moving forward. So it works out best with everyone's schedules moving into May and June.

» And I would just like for the record to know that I reached out to every council member before the finance committee came up with these dates. All right. Very good. Any other discussion? All in favor, raise your hand in the schedule. Let the record show that it is unanimous. All right. Let's move down to D. Consideration of a building permit allocation system. And I think this is placed on the agenda by Councilman Derrick. Schumer, do I have a motion to put it on the floor? I would make a motion to put it on the floor, but not for a vote, just for a briefing or discussion. Okay. Is there a second for that? Second. All right. Go ahead, Mr. Schumer. Yeah.

» Chairman Jones, so this basically, what I wanted to do is just give the public and give uh, you gentlemen up here on council a kind of a heads up. I'm working on an ordinance that would work on a budget on a kind of a building, a building permit allocation system. Basically, the goal would be to reduce the number of building permits bluntly. And the reason for that and what has to happen is an ordinance has to go to planning and zoning where the planning commission and then come back to us. So we're probably a month and a half away from a first reading. I don't have specific details to go over. Um, but I did want to just go through a couple of numbers that I think are important. Our last census was 66,130 people roughly 10 years before that, it was 61,700.

» That means that in between the two census, which remember goes till 2020, we saw an increase of 4,430 people or 7.17%. From 2020 to 2024, we have issued approximately 1,700 dwelling unit permits. Now those aren't individual buildings like it could be a quadplex, an apartment, but what it amounts to is 1,700 dwelling units from 2020 to 2024, 417 dwelling units in the last 12 months. According to government sources like the census, there are approximately 2.6 people per household taking that number. That's 4,420 human beings added to Kershaw County. What's important to note about this is this is based only on building permit numbers coming through Kershaw County. It does, it means it doesn't include Camden. It doesn't include Elgin and it doesn't include Bethune.

» Those numbers are included in these census numbers, but not included in building permits because we don't track the city's building permits necessarily. But you've still got 4,420 people. That is, so we've been through 40% of the census term. If we continue on the same path by the next census, we will have added 11,050 new residents, which would be an increase of 16.7%, making us probably the largest grower, if not one of the largest growers, if not the largest in the county, I mean in the state. And South Carolina as a state is one of the fastest growing states population-wise in the country. So what we're seeing in Kershaw County is this explosive growth, and these are the numbers to support it. I personally think we have to do something. And I think everyone up here agrees, by the way.

» I don't think I'm speaking out of turn. I've talked to each one of you individually, and everyone up here agrees that this explosive residential growth. Everything we're talking about in so many of these meetings boils down to this explosive growth. You know, the gentleman who spoke earlier, Mr. Brunson, hit a lot of that on the head. I mean, you talked about a lot of that growth, a little specific to Camden, but it's county-wide. And our county, you know, you can't have cops on the street. You can't have 2020 number cops on the street when you add 17% to your population in a 10-year period. I can promise you that you aren't going to see the police force grow 17%. As much as I'd love it, those budget numbers aren't there.

» Even if you try to increase taxes, you can't hatch your way into that kind of growth, into keeping up with it. So growth is going to happen. It's inevitable. But what we can do as a policy body is we can make sure that to the extent there's residential growth, it's good quality residential growth, but we can also cap the number of building permits. Mount Pleasant's done it. Some other places have done it. So I'm putting together something. We'll obviously have some discussions before then. I don't have a concrete plan to give you, but I didn't just want to drop that on first reading in the month and a half. Let me say this. I hope I didn't cut you off. No, no, that's it. That's all I have. Let me say something before I know Mr. Brunson jumps in.

» To keep things sort of simple here, I applaud you for sending it to the Planning and Zoning Commission. I too think that's where it should be. I would like to ask if we don't take a vote on it, if it's going to the Planning and Zoning Commission, because I would like them to handle it, discuss it, reason with it, without us putting our influence on it until it comes. Oh, I agree. I don't think we should take a vote. Yeah, I'm asking for no vote. I just wanted to let the public know and let my fellow council members know, because when it comes in a month and a half, I didn't want people to say, well, where'd this come from? So I wanted you all to at least know what's happening. So to the extent there's questions or comments, we can have those conversations over the next month.

» But I agree, no vote should be taken. All right, I got one question. Mr. Shoemaker, I appreciate all your hard work. I know that you've been working tirelessly since you came on council regarding growth, and your district alone has experienced the most growth of any district that we have sitting here on council among us. Yes. And if something like, you know, if we do get the recommendation back from planning and zoning, you know, in your mind, so we had 465 last year, right? Yeah, we had 700 and, where's my number on my sheet here? 417 in the last 12 months. 417 in 12 months. So if we took a percentage, we could cap it at, you know, 70%, 60%. Yeah, I mean, we could cap it at any number we wanted. And those are the things I want planning, the planning. To kind of give the recommendation.

» Well, to Chairman Jones's point, I don't want to sort of put a number on it like we're telling planning what to do. I'd like us to work on an ordinance and send it to them and let them have that discussion. But yeah, we, fundamentally, this body could, I mean, we could do a moratorium. I think a moratorium is the nuclear option. I think a moratorium is a nuclear option. And also legally, I mean, to the point of that, even if there was impetus to do a moratorium, it's very difficult to have a moratorium that passes legal muster without some backing behind it. Doing this, if this doesn't work in a year, then maybe it's moratorium time. Unfortunately, the law doesn't allow you to jump from A to Z.

» And, and so in a year, if we were to do this and we're, it wasn't working for Kershaw County, we could go back and revisit and, you know, increase the permits or decrease even more. Right. Any order back and revisit, correct? Correct. So I cut you off a little bit. Any ordinance I would put up before you gentlemen, and of course, Madam Chair, if she's here would be to say, would be very specific and say that we'd have the ability to adjust. So, you know, anything we put up, we would have the ability to change if it didn't work out. Well, absolutely. And that's, that's a given, right? I think that's, we pretty much know that. And that's... Now, go ahead, Mr. Brasel. Do me one favor, define moratorium. Are you talking about...

» So this isn't a moratorium? But we brought the topic up and apparently there's some folks in favor of that. Are you talking about a moratorium on all building permits? Are you talking about a moratorium on major subdivisions? Are you talking about a moratorium on major and minor subdivisions? So it'd really be dependent on what this body wanted, but a moratorium by definition is the stopping of all of a thing. So if you limited the moratorium to a particular class of development, you would, there'd be some legal challenges potentially, but you, um, you in theory could do a moratorium on a class of building permits. That would be that you're going to run into some legal challenges. I'm not saying that they're not worth facing, but a moratorium by definition means a stop of everything.

» What we would have to do if we went that far is decide what is it a moratorium of? You go from one extreme, which is all building of all types down to the least extreme, which would be a moratorium of a specific class. The more you go down into being specific, the more likely a court's going to say you kick out your moratorium. I know that's not really an answer, but I'm not, and I'm not advocating by the way today for a moratorium, but just trying to answer your question. I just want everybody to think about the jobs that are involved in a moratorium and a plumber and electrician and a cabinet maker's son. We're not putting anybody out of business. This council won't. So let's, let's think real hard about how we define the word moratorium.

» If we're talking about a major subdivision moratorium versus a building permit moratorium, because Kershaw County won't put anybody out of business. I can promise you that. Reference to Mr. Brazel's comments, exactly what do you plan to send? Are you asking to be sent to planning and zoning? Yeah, not a moratorium. It would be a cap, but you know, Mr. Tomlinson mentioned, you know, a percentage of some kind of cap. The exact allocation of what that looks like is something that we, I've got, you know, I'm going to work on over the next couple of weeks. I've talked to some of you already about that, but that's where I need to still, I'm working with Mr. DuBose to make sure we're checking the legal boxes, but we're not talking about any absolute, cap in any area. All right.

» And all this is so premature now, Mr. Brazel, you and I can make sure we stay on top of it as well as the presenter. I just wanted to make that clear. You did. You made a good, appreciate that. Uh, no, no, no, we can't. I'm sorry. We cannot. Thank you. Uh, all right. Any further discussion? All right. So it will be sent to the planning and zoning. Very good. Let's move to the next item. Let me just say this. I'm not trying to be rude to anybody. Thank you, sir. The gentleman, I'd be happy to speak to anyone after the meeting. Absolutely. I'll be here as long as I have, I'll be here as long as they have to be here as well, too. All right. Anyway. Okay. Uh, not 11 o'clock again, right? Excuse me. Yeah. Let's move to old business. Okay. Needed fire hydrants, Pine Grove Road.

» So I actually, I don't need to remember on the agenda, but, um, if we need to take a vote for the two fire hydrants so that it moves forward. If we don't, we don't need to. Um, are we able to find funds to fund two fire hydrants on Pine Grove Road? Yes, it would be out of the, uh, general fund. And then do we need to take a vote to solidify that? Um, I would like just for it to be codified because I don't typically move money from my general fund to a special revenue. Okay. So then I would ask Mr. Jones that we take a vote. All right. Well, do we have a motion? Yeah.

» I'll make a motion to provide, uh, two fire hydrants, the sum of $12,000 that we will work with blue golf, Elgin water to provide these two fire hydrants for Pine Grove Road, um, and let, uh, Crescent County fire work with blue golf, Elgin water in this matter. Very good. Is there a second? Second. Second. Discussion? I think we talked about it at the last meeting. So if I don't have anything else to say, it's nobody has anything to say. Mr. President, I appreciate you. Let me ask you this, Mr. Templer. If we do these two fire hydrants, are we going to be opening up where it's going to be more coming our way? Are there is of the county? I think there's always that potential. There's always in, in other areas.

» Um, but I will say this, not every area is, has the capacity from a, from the main water line stands to have hydrants. So we have water running to rural water running to subdivisions, but they don't always support fire hydrants. Well, let me ask you this. Let me, let me ask you this. If this were to pass or not to pass, could you bring back some recommendations with the new budget we're working on now? Sure. Mr. Vice Chair, if I can. You can. Um, you remember we got that heat line map that, um, the fire chief gave us, um, last meeting and, um, it does have some, but it goes back to Mr. Templer's point. The water supply is not there. Um, I don't want to get into a refunding spot hydrants here and there. I would like to go off his recommendation through the budget process.

» The finance committee would like to, and we had a brief discussion on that as well. Um, so, uh, if we could include that of water supply. Yes, sir. So in other words, the water volume, yeah, it's not high enough in certain areas, especially out in the, uh, Cassett area. I can tell you that cause I have Cassett water as well. So we're look off water authority has water supply that meets the fire hydrants, uh, uh, standard, um, in these locations, then they can do it. But I would like to get with the fire chief through the budget process and the finance committee on identifying others. Mr. Tucker, I heard you. Can we, can we vote on, on my motion and vote it up or down and then address it in a case by case situation as the need arises? We absolutely can, Mr. Broussel.

» However, what I was going to ask you is would you, would, would you be willing to let's instruct the county administrator to go and bring forth in this budget year that we're working on the needs of fire hydrants and where they need to be replacing it. And we'll make a commitment to support that. And that way it'd be sort of fair across the board, not saying this is unfair, but I'd like to take the, I'd like to take a vote on it to be honest. I think it's, it's two fire hydrants. It's, it's not a huge ask and we've, let me, let me say this. Okay. We'll certainly do that. You want it. We're going to do it. But, uh, whether it passes or not, uh, Ms. Temple, I want you to look at this in the upcoming budget. Okay. Yeah. I don't disagree that, areas of the county shouldn't be looked at. Okay.

» Is there any other discussion on this? Can I make one point? Yes, you can. The one point I'd like to make is, you know, I will say I'm kind of on the fence. I think it, the bet, I personally would like to see it go through the budget process. That said, I will say that I haven't seen anyone up here yet in my limited year up here bring things in excess, right? So, you know, I know we've had like the emergency rescue book came up as kind of a one-off and it was during the budget cycle, admittedly. And we voted for that. I think I would have a problem if different council members are coming up every meeting, asking for one off budget request. I would not, I would stop being supportive. But to my recollection, Councilman Brasel hasn't brought anything up like this from a budgetary need.

» It's a small amount of money. I would personally wait, but I'm not in his district. So I would support it. Small amount of money to some is a whole lot of money to me. I want to piggyback off something that Councilman Tucker said. And he's right. I can speak for the Bethune Rural Water District. There's no lines that will support a hydrant. And I actually spoke with Chief Glover and I want to thank him for the work that they do to get out. And if you'll, if you'll ride around the county, sometimes you'll see these little signs, blue signs with a W on them. And that is a water source. So in places that doesn't have the capability of having a hydrant, you'll see water sources and it'll be ponds or it'll be lakes or whatever that's even privately owned.

» And they have gotten a contract, if you will, with that particular person saying that, listen, if there's a fire in your area, we can use this water source to pump water to use for the fire. So they have found resources to help us with the insurance costs and that kind of stuff. So I want to thank him and for the work that their department does. Very good, Mr. Kato. Mrs. Bresler, I appreciate you bringing this forth to us. Let's go for a vote. Okay, all in favor. And by the way, I'm going to support this. All in favor, raise your hand. It is unanimous. Mr. Templer, would you please also follow with the other areas, Mr. Kato's and those, and we'll be expecting to see something in the upcoming budget. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. All right. Moving along. We're council briefings.

» Okay, we'll start with Mr. Brasel. Hey, I just want to say thanks to everybody for supporting that. I know it wasn't a big deal to a lot of people, but it was a big deal to a small community. So thank you for that. I appreciate everybody's discussion on growth. And we certainly have work to do, but we're walking a tightrope, guys. We're talking about people's livelihoods. And when I say that, I talk about people that live in Kershaw County and are born and raised here in Kershaw County that have depended on being a plumber or electrician or framer. And that looks different today than it did before 2008. And I understand that. But as we talk about growth, as we talk about any kind of ordinance that would stop anything completely, let's just be real careful as to how we approach it.

» Thank you, Mr. Brasel. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. A couple of quick things. One is, I'll piggy bank off what Mr. Brasel was saying a little bit here. I'm not sure about a moratorium myself, but I will say that we need to decide what we want to do with impact fees. We've had the study done. We have paid the consultant. There's a little bit more upcharge to update that. We need to make a decision on what we're going to do with that, whether we're going to shelf life it or whether we're going to move forward with it. That's that's important. If you want to try to make sure that the county benefits, you've got to do some type of impact fees from what we are able to do according to the state law to help ante up monies for new growth.

» I just look at it as if, you know, if I was doing anything, if I was going to business with someone, they would want a certain percentage of money or or equal sweat for the dollar and going into a partnership. So when new folks move in, they can't come and get the same services or decrease services because there's more demand at the same price that we're currently paying because it costs more to service more. So please, please, um, put that to your forefront because we need to make a decision on what we're going to do. Thank you, Mr. No, no, I'm not finished. Don't thank me. Um, the other thing I want to say is that, um, sometimes the citizens get things confused and I, and I need to make this statement because I'm, I'm very, very keen and, um, direct with my, with my language.

» I'm an elected official, all of us up here. I will never dip into whether it's the sheriff or whether it's the probate judge, whether it's city council, town council, the mayor's here tonight from Bethune, um, another elected body's business. Um, the city has control over Camden Training Center. We can like it or don't like it, but there's not a darn thing we can do about it up here, but voice our personal opinion. That is totally left up to the city. So I don't know why everybody's getting confused about what the county's doing and what the city's doing. It's two separate entities. The land is probably in the county now, but they're annexing out. This body cannot stop the city of Camden from annexing out. It is not underneath our jurisdiction.

» And then the citizens need to understand that, to think that we're trying to keep them in the dark. And what I will not do is speak ill of another colleague from up on this diocese about my personal opinion on a project that they're trying to make a decision, because that would be fair play. When we get in a difficult spot, they can have the same attitude and, and have the same, um, speeches back to us. So that's how I feel. That's where I'm at. And that's why you don't hear a lot of comments out of me, because I have zero control. Thank you, Mr. Vice. You done for now. Thank you. All right, Mr. Shoemake. Yeah, three, uh, I think three quick things. Um, again, I appreciate the discussions here on growth.

» Um, and again, I just want to be really clear because the moratorium got kind of pushed out. That's not what I'm proposing. Um, I'm not saying I'm necessarily against one, but that is the nuclear option. And I think we need to, we need to take us. Here's what we don't need to do. We don't need to stand still or go backwards. We need to move forward. We need to move forward and make efforts to handle this growth. I think we need to do that in a deliberate way. I think Mr. Brazel does make a fair point about being careful about unintended consequences. We can take one step forward, gauge it, see if we need to go another step forward, another step back. So I agree, uh, with him completely on that. Um, I wanted to speak briefly. I don't, I think Ms.

» Uten has left, but I want to speak briefly on the litter ordinance. I just wanted to, you know, that's something that I'm very passionate about. That'll be up with us on our next meeting. Um, I would just a couple of quick points on that. I have spoken to law enforcement about it. They're widely supportive of it. Um, I will say why now and enter a question, you know, why now and why litter? I mean, it's an issue that when I got elected walking around neighborhoods, again, I'm in the areas, Mr. Thomas and put it this hitting growth, the hardest right next to your district there, Mr. Jones. And, you know, it's something growth and then everything about growth, growth, where my kids go to school, this litter on the ground, all these sort of growth outreach issues, uh, come up all the time.

» The community efforts are critical. I'm hugely supportive of the Clean Communities Commission. I've been out there for everyone they've done. My wife actually was on the Clean Communities Commission for years and, um, we're doing that work, but it's just, it doesn't seem to be making a dent. Maybe this doesn't either. Um, but I think with $25 fines, it's important that we increase those. So that's, that's sort of my answer to those questions. And lastly, uh, Mr. Jones, I want to say thank you to you. Um, I've said this before, but you run a meeting with amazing efficiency. I mean, we're, it's not even almost midnight. And, um, I appreciate you. I appreciate the way you keep us all informed when, you know, especially this last week, um, I have felt fully knowledgeable going in.

» And I just want to say that, uh, I very, very much appreciate your work this week. And that's all I have. Mr. Kato. I too want to thank you before I get started. You've done an outstanding job this week. And I thank you for that, reaching out to me and keeping us all informed. Um, just a little bit on the litter. Um, going back to what, uh, my colleague here had to say, um, we, as a community do need to step up. And I think all the ones that, that serve on this clean community commission and, and all the things that we could do, but, you know, even though they spend the time to do what they do, they shouldn't have to do it. And that's the bottom line because it shouldn't be happening and it should be penalties for the people that do it.

» And the penalties are so minute at this point that people just don't care. So that's, that's all I'm going to say about that. And we'll probably have another discussion at the next meeting, but, um, I want to, uh, announce just one thing, a couple more things. One thing is, uh, on March the 1st at 7 PM, uh, the Bethune Community Resource Center will be having, uh, uh, uh, school of music from the University of South Carolina. They'll be performing post, postcards from home. So if, uh, if you would like to attend that, um, I would, I would say you reach out to Bethune and come up there on, um, March the 1st and listen to this concert. And, and I went on the, and it's free. Mayor Holly's sitting in the audience. She's looking at me. She said, it's free, it's free.

» So, um, on that also, I want to say thank you so much, um, to Ms. Patton. She does, she, you know, she has also worked with me so well and things in, in the Northern end, I feel like have really started to change as far as the Fine Arts Center. I think we're becoming to be more involved and, and that, that makes me smile. And I know it makes the people up there smile too. So thank you so much for that. Um, lastly, um, I just want to say happy anniversary to my wife, 32 years. She's a lucky, no, I'm a lucky man. You better be the dog on us. Put up with me for 32 years and put up with some of the stuff that I do. So thank you so much, um, for this meeting tonight and everybody have a safe travel home. Thank you, Mr. K. Toast. Mr. Thomas. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman.

» I do not have, um, any comments or briefings for tonight. I would like to say happy anniversary to the Catos. You outpunted your coverage. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Okay. Chair report. General, thank you. I don't deserve it. Thank you for your comments. However, I can assure you right now this next January, you better be finding another vice chair because I do not plan to do it. Um, you didn't plan this time either, but also let me just say this, um, in all sincerity, I appreciate everybody tonight, how this whole meeting ran. And let me just say this. I also appreciate Mr. Shoemake, uh, Mr. Browse. I know you guys, all of you, I shouldn't call names, but all of you for your work on the housing industry, the exploded growth or whatever.

» I mean, it's coming, you know, and we've got to deal with it. And I just appreciate that effort. I think I was the first person, and I think you might have mentioned more time before, but I just said that I was supporting a moratorium, but I wanted to know what a moratorium was about. You know, how could we, how, when, where, what, what we could do it. Um, not that I'd want it, but we'd never got that information. And of course, that's because Mr. Shoemake jumped right out into it and dove into it head first. And I appreciate you doing that. But, uh, having said that, I have no report tonight. I, uh, will now call on our administrator for his report. Uh, thank you, Mr. Jones. Uh, just have several things tonight.

» First off, just wanted to let y'all know that how seal Levine, the consulting team will be here on March 18th to lead the council and planning commission commission to the review of the draft vision goals and preliminary land use framework for the updated Kershaw County comp plan. Joint meeting of council and the planning commission will take place beginning at six o'clock in the training bay area of the economic development office. Draft materials will be available online and distributed to the council and planning commission about one week prior to the meeting. After this meeting, the consulting team will begin drafting the policies and implementation strategies portion of the comp plan. So we'll put that out, um, via email and keep reminding you all of that.

» So March 18th, six o'clock at, um, economic development office. A few other items I have, we met with, uh, offender management services that this was an item that was brought up during the, um, the budget retreat for kind of easing the, uh, the, the jail population as it relates to ankle monitors. So there's pre sentence and home detention were two, um, sections of this ankle monitor solution. Uh, the pre sentence seems to be a very viable option while the home detention is, is probably very unlikely. So what our next step is, is to have a stakeholder meeting plan for the various agencies that would be involved with this, such as, uh, the police department, sheriff's office, solicitor's office, the jail and, and, um, others.

» So just still just in the fact finding, uh, section of, of this, but we, it, it seems hopeful from a pre sentence stance. But ramp, if you can go to my rendering there, um, we're kind of moving along on that. This is where, what we have so far. Um, it's, it's pretty involved, but it would be a very nice facility. Um, it would be very well done. Two, uh, two boat ramps, floating dock. It doesn't impede the, uh, the kayak launch. Um, so we're looking at this next step. It's going to start with, uh, surveying work and things of that nature. And I hope to have a cost opinion here within the next probably two weeks or so, so we can understand what our, where our budget is going to take us.

» Quite frankly, I feel like our budget will probably outpace it a little bit, but I think there may be an opportunity possibly with our, uh, the budget this year with capital reserves to maybe, um, make up some of the shortfall, but we'll see where that cost opinion takes us and, and see what strategy we need to take from there. The good news is there's about 130 feet between that downstream, uh, dock, the, the kayak launch and the boat launches. So we'll, we'll mitigate that issue we had at, at the other, uh, boat ramp with boats getting stuck up under the boat ramp. So our expansion, we're in the design progress. Design is continuing to progress. D hex submittal. Uh, we look to have that early April.

» Um, it will advertise for bid early August and construction will begin in November with a completed, a completed date expected in June of 26th. This is critical because you, this is ARPA money. This is that $7 million match money. We talked about this, this money, much like the other ARPA funds. It has a timestamp on it. We have to have it spent, um, by, by the end of 26. So this is a large project. So this, this is, um, this is going to really take a lot of effort and management to get us in under the wire here. So that is my report. Unless anyone has questions. All right. Mr. Templer, let's, uh, does anybody have any comments on that? I'd like to get a copy of the boat ramp. Yes. Yeah. I just got this because again, we made some adjustments, but I'll, we'll, we'll get this out to y'all.

» Okay. Very good. Anybody that wants to make any comments? Listen, I want, I want you and I to talk about this ankle monitoring. Sure. That's 15, 20, 20, 30 years ago. We had a very successful program with an ankle monitoring. We had about 50 people. It may have been 30 years ago. I got on a, but anyway, it was a long time ago, but it can work. You just have to get that the solicitor's office, you know, the other jurisdictions in line with you. And, uh, so anyway, you and I can talk about that. Is there, thank you. And thank you, Mr. Templer for everything. Is there a legal briefing? No legal briefing. Uh, just a very, very short, uh, executive session pertaining to, uh, land development regulation. Let me say this. This could be quick. Yeah, it's going to be quick.

» We're going to do this quick. Okay. I don't like going to the back room staying for any length of time. All right. Is there a motion? Is there a motion to go into executive session? Let me finish. Got you finished. Is there a motion to go into executive session? Motion to go into executive session for, uh, land development regulations. Thank you. Bye. Mr. Tucker. Is there a second? Second. Second. Any discussion? I do. The reason I interrupted you is because she has to take the notes over here. And if, if we're all kind of running into each other, it's hard for Ms. Hannah to... She's good. I know she's good, but that's the reason for that, guys. All right. All in favor of executive session, very quickly, raise your hand. Okay. It's unanimous. Let's go, guys. We've got two minutes.

» The motion. Do I have a motion to come out of executive session? I'll make a motion. We come out of executive session. I will second it. All right. Motion made by Thomason, seconded by Shoemaker. Is there any discussion? I led the record. Let the record show that there's no votes coming out of executive session. Just a discussion as the attorney so saw fit. And, uh, I agree to disagree. Mr. Vice Chairman, may I make a quick comment prior to us closing the meeting now? Yes, but let's finish it. We got a vote on it. So all in favor of coming out of executive session, raise your hand. The director shows unanimous. You have asked for a few minutes. I just need a few seconds. It takes an army to keep a council member straight, especially me.

» Thank you to the text I just received from a personal friend of mine. I've neglected to mention, dear, my comments that Maverin Hill Baptist Church is having their annual barbecue fundraiser coming up March 2nd, Saturday, March, Saturday, March 2nd from 12 to 4 30. You can get a ticket for a plate either from a church member or at the church office. We, you would never go wrong eating the barbecue there. Um, but I had to mention that. Sorry for neglecting it. And thank you to Ms. Titus for reminding me. Okay. Very well said. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? Uh, uh, madam, almost, um, Mr. Vice Chair, make a motion to adjourn, please, sir. You haven't heard my pronouns. Okay. Second is any discussion. I have something I want to say. Good night. Thank y'all.

» You're the only council in 18 years that I've been able to work with. And I want to thank y'all for putting up with me as well. It's truly, it's just, it's, it's truly about the citizens, not us. Okay. And great job. And you guys do put the citizens first on many occasions that you bring and I appreciate that. All right. So any further discussion, all in favor to adjourn? It's unanimous. Hit the gavel. There you go.