Full meeting transcript - January 9, 2024

» Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful sunset. It's amazing. I see less. I saw less. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, NEW SPEAKERS, ARE WE LIVE? NEW SPEAKERS, ARE WE LIVE? YOU WANT TO DO IT? I WILL IF YOU NEED ME TO, BUT NEVER. DO I WANT TO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I USE TO HAVE TO ALL THE TIME. I'M LIKE, OKAY. NEW SPEAKERS, CUTTIANS THAT ARE HERE, IN THE AUDIENCE, AND ONLINE. THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING OF 2024, AND I CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. allein. COUNCILMAN JONES. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR WELCOME. Thank you. All right, we'll start off tonight with an invocation by Councilman Danny Cato. Let us pray. Dear most kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we just thank you so much for another day that you've given us.

» Lord, we thank you for the rain and for the opportunity to be here. Lord, we give you thanks tonight for our safety during these storms, and we pray for the ones that suffered damage. Lord, we pray that you would be with them. Heavenly Father, we just pray with Councilman Tucker and his family with the loss of his mother, that we just pray peace and comfort on them at this time. And dear Heavenly Father, you just wrap your arms around them and protect them, dear Heavenly Father. We just ask that you'd be with us throughout this meeting, that you would lead, guide, and direct each and every one of us to make the decisions that fit your will, dear Heavenly Father. Just lead, guide, and direct us throughout the rest of the week and forgive us all of our sins.

» For it's in Christ's name we pray. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the state in which it stands, one place, one place, one place. Thank you, Mr. Cato. Before we get into the agenda tonight, I do want to let everybody know it's with heavy hearts that we think of Councilman Tucker Jr. tonight. And also I'd like to take a moment's silence for his mother, Dorothy C. Tucker, and also for Robert Howe, Bobby Jones, Councilman Jones' brother that he lost last week. Thank you. All right, adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion to adopt tonight's agenda? Sure. Okay. Councilman Shoemake makes the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. Any discussion or amendments? All right, I have an amendment.

» I make a motion that we amend tonight's agenda to strike item number 17, executive session. It's no longer needed at this time. I'd second. Okay, second by Mr. Shoemake. Any discussion on striking 17? Okay. All those in favor of the amendment to strike 17 indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Brazel, and Mr. Jones, how do you vote? Yes. Okay. All those in favor of adopting tonight's agenda as amended indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Brazel, and Mr. Jones, how do you vote on the agenda? Yes. Okay. Agenda is adopted as amended. Number five, proclamations. We do have a proclamation tonight in honor and in memory of Mr. Edward J. Mike McClendon.

» Proclamation, whereas the county council of Kershaw County, South Carolina, and its citizens have lost a dedicated public servant, whereas Edward J. Mike McClendon will be missed by all those whose lives he touched daily and the many great contributions he gave selflessly, whereas the citizens of Kershaw County will remember the great benefits from his incredible leadership poured into this county for years to come, and whereas Edward J.

» Mike McClendon left a legacy of activism and community engagement, whether in the Camden-Kershaw branch of the NAACP, Salvation Army, Price House, American Red Cross, Black Caucus of Kershaw County, Relay for Life, city and county council meetings, and Kershaw County school board meetings, volunteering in schools, visiting the sick in the hospitals, and those shut in at home, and for these, his passion, charm, and his commitment will forever be remembered. Whereas Edward J.

» Mike McClendon will be remembered for his community leadership as the third vice president of the Camden-Kershaw County branch NAACP president, of the Camden chapter of the Boylan Haven Maven Academy, outstanding member of the Kershaw County Clean Commission in the establishment of the Campbell Street Corridor, vital alumnus in the signage of the Boylan Haven Maven Academy Memorial, outstanding citizen in registering 63 voters on foot in the 2008 presidential election campaign, major leader in recognizing Frank Wills, the young black security guard who had a role in discovering something critical in the Watergate event and yet struggled financially for the rest of his life, initiator of the highway marker for Larry Doby by the city of Camden, the Kershaw County Council, and the South Caroli

» na Highway Commissioners with Mr. Bobby Jones, and, whereas, with the joint effort of Mayor Mary Clark and others, Edward J. Mike McClendon, were instrumental in naming of the intersection of DeKalb and Campbell Streets, known as Dr. Martin Luther King Square, to publicly acknowledge Mr. Clendon's hero, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Now, therefore, let it be known that the Kershaw County Council extends sincere sympathy, prayers, and condolences to the family, friends, and community of Mr. Edward J. Mike McClendon. This proclamation is presented on this 9th day of January, 2024, in the city of Camden, Kershaw County, South Carolina. Is there a motion to approve the proclamation tonight? I so move. Okay, Mr. Jones, with the motion and a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cato. And into discussion.

» If I could, Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Jones. I don't know who put that on the agenda, but Michael McClendon and myself worked together for many years through the 90s. He was a good man, a force to be reckoned with. I'm proud to support this proclamation. Yes, thank you, Mr. Jones. Ms. Ann Davis contacted Council, and Councilman Tucker and I put it on the agenda. And I know that Councilman Tucker can't be here tonight. But it was important to get it on the agenda tonight because his memorial service will be Monday, January 15th at 11 a.m. So we wanted to get this done so it can be presented to his family on Monday. Thank you. All right. All those in favor of recognizing the proclamation honoring Mr. Edward J. Mike McClendon, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, how do you vote? Yes. Yes.

» Okay. And the proclamation is accepted. And again, I want to tell everyone that his memorial service will be this Monday, January 15th at 11 a.m. At St. Paul United Methodist Church on Knights Hill Road in Camden. Ms. Hanna will have that ready for Ms. Davis. All right. Up to public comments. Number six. Thank you, Mr. DeBose. All right. Public comments. We have one person that signed up tonight, Mr. Tom Webb III. Mr. Webb, how are you? All right. A long time ago, somebody in American politics said of American government, it was of the people, by the people, and for the people. So I think having people in American government is pretty good. So in public comments, people have the opportunity to come and speak and be part of the government.

» They get to feel that they're part of the government, even though most of them won't do it. They get butterflies if they stand in front of y'all or them. But they can. They can speak if they have to, and they will occasionally. And you could show other counties how to do it. I'm sure we have been doing that. It's not in the Constitution that we have public speaking at council meetings. But it's a good thing, I think, because of what I said. It helps the people be part of their government. So Kershaw County could show other counties how to do it. Then going on, moving on, I get Discover magazines. It's a little science magazine. I say little because it's getting thinner and thinner, like so many things.

» It covers, in an article here, in about two pages, the core and the Earth's core and how it may have some effect on our weather. It's 1,800 miles down to the outer core through a lot of very hot rock, molten rock, to the outer core, which is mostly molten iron and then another couple thousand miles on down to the solid core, which is radioactive and producing heat. And nobody quite understands how it does it, but it produces a magnetic field, a great magnetic field that we can stand more than 1,800 miles from and hold a little compass and the needle will point north and south. So the magnetosphere is a very important part of our planet. It protects our planet from the solar wind that would erode our atmosphere and take it away, as with Mars. Mars does not have a magnetic field.

» So our magnetic field, our core, has been acting up a little bit lately. They gauge what it's doing by the rumbling sounds of earthquakes and how long it takes for the sound of an earthquake to go here and there and yonder. They have seismographs all over the world. And they can kind of contemplate and predict what the core is doing. And it's slowing down a little bit, but it's probably cyclical. I hope it is. But New York City or New York State is actually going to do something about it. They're going to ban gas stoves in 2026 to meet their emission requirements and gas furnaces and gas water heaters. It's said that gas cook stoves causes asthma in children. So who can refute that? You know, you want to look out for their children.

» But the furnaces and the water heaters, they're vented to the outside. Here in Camden, a gas water heater has to be vented to the outside. And furnaces just naturally are. But we're burning methane. That's one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms. It's about as close as you can get to hydrogen without just burning hydrogen. So it's absurd to ban these gas stoves. But the elite, the Uber elite is going to do it in 2026. And already it's being done in some cities in California. So if they can get away with that, they can get away with anything. And they have done some getting away with things with the COVID scare. And then the mask and I'm running out of time. So enough of that. Solar farms, it's a Green New Deal. It's Biden trap when you're putting your foot in it.

» When they can get enough energy from the solar farms, they're going to do away with all the fossil fuel. And we will be in a whole different territory. And it's being done to us on purpose. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Webb. Right, that concludes public comments for this evening. Move on to item number seven, public hearing. And the FLO ordinance for Sandy Wood Solar LLC, previously identified as Project Sandy. The FLO agreement is on the agenda tonight for third reading. And we will open the public hearing now. We have three citizens that have signed up. The first citizen is Tom Webb III. Welcome back, Mr. Webb. I don't know what to say, but I just figured I ought to because I think that we don't need them. We've done quite well without solar farms.

» And they're trying to make us dependent on something that's not dependable. If it gets cloudy, just go flip your circuit breakers and you'll see what it's like if you're on solar energy and you don't have any more, any backup, no gas, nothing but solar and wind. And if the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine on a cloudy day or a few cloudy days or a whole week of cloudy days, it's going to be like Texas was when they had that ice storm. And this has been a year or two ago, about around Christmas time. And people died. They froze to death in their houses, dependent on something that wasn't dependable. So that's about enough. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Webb. All right. The next speaker at the public hearing is Ashley Huff. Hi, Ms. Huff. How are you? Great.

» How are y'all? Good evening. My name is Ashley Huff. Thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to speak with y'all tonight. I have been a resident of District 6 most of my life. I'm here to discuss the large-scale solar facility that is being proposed near my home. I think there are a lot of unknowns regarding these projects that still need to be figured out before moving forward.

» Have projects like this been around long enough to truly determine the long-term impacts, environmental impacts, what happens if the developer files for bankruptcy, what is the longevity, I understand the panels will be recycled, but what about the land after removal? The reclamation bond that is set in place, is that really enough money to reclaim the land to its original condition? I'm currently the head estimator at a local site work company, and I can tell you more than likely, the short answer is no. The city of Camden won't often allow solar panels on roofs, but we're going to tie up 1,000-plus acres in them.

» Have we really reached out to surrounding counties like Sumter and Lee to see why these projects are or are not allowed in their counties? I know that we were originally offered approximately $2,500 per megawatt, but we settled on $3,000. The county really isn't making money here hand over fist. Is this going to benefit Kershaw County in any other way other than the per megawatt price? What about the benefits for local businesses or employment? I'm not sure that there really are many. The school district and the county just revamped three new schools in my area.

» Regardless of how you feel about growth, is this really the best solution to tie up this acreage for the next 20 to 30 years? Out of sight, out of mind? If a project like this was proposed on the other side of the road in front of either one of your homes, would we be having this conversation today? Part of the responsibility of a councilman, in my opinion, is to understand the constituents that you represent and what they want. I'm not sure that the people of District 6 really understand what they are up against here. And I would appreciate if you would give it some more thought and some more time before voting. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Huff. The next speaker is Daniel Band. Hi, Mr. Band. How are you? How are you? Good. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

» My name is Daniel Band. I'm with Sun Tribe, the developer of the solar project. We appreciate you having us here tonight. We're excited about the economic and environmental benefits of this project to Kershaw County. That includes approximately $6.7 million in revenue paid to the county over the next 30 years. It also includes associated economic benefits, including construction jobs during development of the site, maintenance during the 30-year life cycle. So there's pretty significant economic benefits, both from taxes and then from job creation for these projects. Leading up to this point, we worked hard to make sure this is a great project for the community. We sent out a letter to all adjacent landowners a month before the project was submitted to the Planning Commission.

» We had a community meeting. That included meeting with a bunch of the adjacent landowners. From that positive meeting, we created larger setbacks in certain areas. And it seems like the neighbors directly adjacent are happy about the project. We also had positive discussions with the Planning Commission. So they reviewed our application, which we submitted last month, voted unanimously to approve the project. They did a comprehensive review, including decommissioning, setbacks, buffering, a number of other issues, had a lot of good questions, and in the end decided to unanimously approve the project.

» So in light of the economic and environmental benefits of this project, as well as the careful review done by the Planning Commission, we respectfully ask that you approve the fee load tonight. And I can answer any questions if you have follow-up questions. Any questions from Council? I would like to know the exact location, precise location of the solar project, because the only thing we've had is at the corner of Boise Cascade and Temerod Road. Yes, sir. So this is the corner of Sanders Creek Road and Lockhart Road. I actually brought a 24 by 36. I can show you on the map if you want me to. So this is not at the corner of Temerod and Boise Cascade? I believe that was one of the previous projects. Mr.

» Bann, I would like to see the map, but let's do it when we get to the ordinance and the agenda. So I've got a question regarding buffers. What's your setback? What's your buffer depth? So the setback as required by the county ordinance is 100 feet from any lot lines or roads. We're doing 100 feet, and then in certain areas we're doing 200 feet based on the feedback we got from some of the adjacent neighbors. So it's a very large setback. That's a larger setback than most neighboring counties require. In addition to that, the buffering specifies trees and has a very dense vegetated buffer. So that's also much stronger than other counties we've worked with in the area. What type of trees are you going to plant in the buffer? So it's a mix of deciduous and evergreen.

» I also actually have that on the map if you'd like to see it, too. Okay, so the property you're talking about is really sandy, well-drained soil, right? That's correct. So do you feel like they'll survive in that? I do. You know, we had a South Carolina PE essentially do a vegetated buffer plan. So he's done buffer plans in South Carolina throughout the state, and he chose the plants essentially to thrive in those conditions. Will it be irrigated or not? It'll be irrigated when we're stabilizing the site. So as you develop the project, you need to stabilize the site before getting signed off on. So that'll be a mix of native grasses generally. So during that time, it will. Okay, what's the minimum height that the trees will be when planted? I believe they're six feet.

» I can double-check that. What's the height of the solar panels? The solar panels are under 15 feet according to ordinance requirements. And then the ordinance requires the trees to get to 15 feet within a set amount of time. Okay. How many acres of solar panels will be on this site? So this one is a little bit smaller than the previous projects that came before you. This one's about 450 acres. The site itself is about 580. So the remaining about 130 acres will be vegetated buffers, preservation of all the streams and wetlands on site. That's all Blackwater Swamp probably, isn't it? There's Sanders Creek runs in the southern portion of the property. So we'll be avoiding that. Okay. Any environmental impact on that creek? No environmental impact. We're staying well clear of that creek.

» Okay. How many kilowatts is this project? It probably says in the... So this one's 74.9, 74.9 megawatts? 75 megawatts. I know Lockhart Road fairly well. And I know that it's been an area in which a lot of people have moved. There's been a lot of residential growth in that area. I think that'd be the major point of concern is that is the major thoroughfare. And Sanders Creek is also a major thoroughfare between Cassett and Lockhart. So the buffer will be important to me. So, yeah, I'd look forward to seeing that as well. We're absolutely focused on the buffer. And I can also show you some of the renderings that our engineers did that will show the trees over a given amount of time. Okay. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, Mr. Kato. A couple more questions. Ms. Huff reached out to me.

» She was the only... Excuse me. She was the only citizen I had reach out to me from that district that opposed this project. I had a few that reached out and wanted to try and get some on their land, actually. But I got a few questions that she had. For one, what happens with this site 30 years when it's all over? Or what happens if the company goes bankrupt, goes into bankruptcy? And the erosion, what's the chances of erosion? So I would like to know... I'd like basically for you to answer her questions on that one, if you don't mind. Sure. And if you don't mind, I'm just taking notes so I don't forget any of those questions. I certainly understand. So it's decommissioning after 30 years, bankruptcy, and erosion. The erosion from on the side under the panels. Absolutely.

» So decommissioning after 30 years. So to start off, we have essentially three safeguards when it comes to decommissioning and removing all the equipment from the site. The first one is the contract with our landowner. When we sign that contract, we put a specific clause in that says we, as the project developer, will decommission the site. So from that standpoint, there is a legal obligation on our side to decommission it. But in addition to that, we're posting a surety bond with the county under the county's rules so that there will be some money, essentially, in the bank for that decommissioning. So there are a few safeguards. We have a decommissioning plan. So we worked with Kim Lee Horn, the engineers we worked with, to create a specific plan for the site.

» That looks at timeline for removing everything, how we're going to remove it. So that there is, you know, a very discreet plan, step by step. This is how decommissioning takes place. The third thing I'd want to mention is, you know, once these projects are developed, it has a contract with Duke Energy. That's a very valuable contract. So if we were to go bankrupt, I don't think that we would. But if we were, this is a very valuable energy asset. Someone's going to want to take on that contract because Duke Energy pays for megawatt that's produced. So these are valuable assets. They're going to be kept running. You know, Duke Energy certainly has a vested interest in seeing this kept running.

» And then, you know, once the lifetime of the project ends, then there's that plan to decommission it. So I think your third question was erosion. This site, we've worked with our engineers to essentially do stormwater plans before submitting our plans to the county. We included some information for the county about how we plan to address erosion and address stormwater on the site. Essentially, how we're doing that is best management practices. So it'll be stormwater detention ponds in certain areas. Those might be temporary during construction, or they might also be fixed, you know, following construction. As part of building permit plans, we will actually have to go to DHEC and do erosion and stormwater plans. So that will be reviewed by the state so that there are additional safeguards.

» You know, those plans will all be in place before any construction takes place. Thank you. Can I ask a question? Yes, Mr. Webb, you can. You had eight minutes left. So this site doesn't currently propose batteries. Some sites do. We haven't on this one. Duke Energy doesn't necessarily require batteries. They like sites that don't have batteries, and they like sites that do have batteries. It just depends on what they need the energy for. In this case, it would probably be used for peaking times when everyone's running there, sun is shining a lot. That's the peak time that this project would be producing. So I've got one last question. Go ahead, Mr. Bradley. The bond that you're giving cash to the county, is that right for the bond? So we're doing a surety bond.

» The county requires either a surety bond or cash. So you're writing a $50,000 check to Kershaw County? It's a $50,000 surety bond. Okay, so you're paying a bonding company to put that up in your name. That's exactly right. Okay, so it doesn't cost you $50,000, so it costs you a fraction of that? It has a carrying cost that we essentially build into the budget every year. Okay. I think I would like to see that increased. It's a form of insurance. Is that correct? It's insurance, sure. So if something were to happen in the county, would the county become liable? This is a question for administration and Mr. DuBose.

» Would the county become liable for decommissioning if something catastrophic happened? Or would it be on the landowner? Or would it be on the leaseholder? How would that fall? Yeah, I did not believe that would be a county obligation. It would be property owner and, again, the project developer. I think the solar regs adopted by the county in their bonding requirement also require a periodic five-year review of that bond to make sure that it remains sufficient. But, again, it does allow credit, essentially, for salvage value, which is, I believe, why this bond is calculated at $50,000. But to answer your question directly, I do not believe the county would have an obligation to decommission the site.

» But if it came down to it and it became an eyesore, we'd probably end up being the one to carry the cost. That's why that money's there. If the county wanted to, if a later county council determined that it was a public nuisance, yeah, I believe the county could remediate it. But I do not believe it would be any kind of mandatory action. It wouldn't be an obligation, of course. So I don't know who could even mobilize enough equipment to remove that many solar panels for $50,000. So that's something that I would like a hard review on before I can vote for it. That's a bit of a sticking point. That's just a very small number for a site this big. And you're welcome to speak to that or reflect on it.

» You don't have to give me an answer one way or the other, but I would like to see that number move up. Well, if I could speak to that, so Kim Lee Horn, our engineers, created this decommissioning plan. Mr. Van, I'm sorry, can you move the microphone up? Sure. Thank you. Sorry, a little bit too tall. Kim Lee Horn, our engineers, did create that decommissioning plan. This was a South Carolina PE stamped engineer. They're creating those decommissioning cost estimates based on publicly available data for resale value. So when the county allows for that salvage value to be included in the decommissioning cost estimate, it's all publicly available data about resale of the steel that goes into the racking, the panels. There's a very robust resale market for all these things.

» So these projects, when they're put in, there's significant value on that land, and that's reflecting that significant value. If that value goes down in five years, then when we come back to essentially look back at that cost estimate, it will be revised, and maybe in that case the surety bond would have to raise potentially significantly. But in the meantime, that is an engineer-approved estimate for what it would cost and the salvage value that it would entail. So at this present time, there's, say, four and a half years from now, you think there's a market for the solar panels. Somebody would come in, take them out, purchase them from you, remove them, and relocate them. Is that the thought process? Absolutely. There are companies out there that do specifically that. Okay. Thank you.

» Yep. Thank you. Mr. Band, how did your company choose Kershaw County? That's a good question. So Kershaw is an attractive county to develop in for a number of reasons. You know, we know that the county is business-friendly, so they want projects to come in. The county is also relatively flat. That's something you're looking for when you're building a solar development. So you're looking for a place that's relatively flat, well-drained, has good infrastructure. There's a 115 kV Duke line that runs right through the site, so that's generally what we are looking at. So there's a number of reasons that you do look at in developing a project in a certain area. But Kershaw kind of ticked all the boxes here. Okay. Thank you.

» Do you know how close the nearest residence is to this? Over 250 feet from the project. And we've spoken to the nearest residents. They're on Sanders Creek, and they're generally supportive of the project. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Band, will you be staying here? I will. For the meeting? Okay. All right. Thank you. We might have some more questions when we get to the vote. Thank you. All right. That concludes the public hearing on the FELO ordinance for Sandy Wood Solar LLC, also identified as Project Sandy. All right. Item number eight, approval of minutes. We have two minutes to review tonight. The first is Tuesday, November 28, 2023, regularly scheduled meeting.

» Is there a motion to approve these minutes? Madam Chair, I make a motion we approve the November 28 meeting minutes. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson makes a motion to approve. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Schumach. Any discussion? I would like to make a motion to correct, under adoption of agenda, the second paragraph, Chairwoman Katie Gwinn proceeded to call for a vote to approve moving public comments after item number 11. I don't believe that we had a vote for that. That was just a rearrangement of the agenda. Any other feedback on that? I know it was in November. Mr. Jones? You said any feedback on you moving an agenda item? Yes, sir. I believe I moved the agenda item. I don't believe we voted to approve the movement. I don't believe all that. You have that authority.

» You can do that at the council meeting. You don't have to have council approval. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yes, sir. I just wanted to make sure the minutes reflect that. Thank you. Okay, motion to make that correction. Is there a second? No, second it. Okay, second by Mr. Braswell. All those in favor of making that correction, indicate by raising your hand. All right, Mr. Jones, we're voting on correcting the minutes on November 28th. We're striking the vote. Yes. Okay. All right, all those in favor of approving Tuesday, November 28th meeting minutes as amendment, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Schumach, Mr. Braswell, Mr. Jones, how do you vote? Yes. Okay, all right, those minutes are approved with that correction.

» Next regular meeting agenda or minute meetings are Tuesday, December 12th, 2023. Madam Chair, I make a motion. We approve the December 12th meeting minutes. Okay, Mr. Tomlinson makes a motion to approve. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Cato. Any discussion, updates, corrections? All right, all those in favor of approving the Tuesday, December 12th, 2023 meeting minutes, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Schumach, Mr. Braswell, Mr. Jones, how do you vote on December 12th meeting minutes? Yes. Okay. All right, those minutes are approved. All right, up to item number nine, discussion. Discussion on the 2024 initiative to defuse the 2008 general obligation bonds. This was placed on the agenda by Councilman Russell Braswell. So, Mr.

» Braswell, I'll give you the floor to lead the discussion. Thank you, Chairwoman Gwynne. As we were reviewing our audit, I think that was our last meeting, I've looked at our bonds in the past, and I think we were able to defuse a few bonds three years ago. And as we've been paying on them, I noticed that there's one bond under our business-type activities that's gotten down to $668,000. This is part of our sewer system. I think this was for a sewer line, Mr. Templar. Do you remember what the 2008 B-Geo bond was exactly for? This was well before any of our time. That was the East Camden sewer line. Okay, the East Camden sewer line. So, from 2008, we still owe $668,000 for the B bond, and for the A bond, we owe $1,438,211.

» The combined total is $530,000 worth of revenue a year that we're spending. Currently, we have about $7 million in our sewer account. Does that sound about right? Yes, sir. And I know it'll be a finite approach to how we do this because some of that money is obligated for matching funds for the expansion, but I feel like if we can make a movement and an approach to get rid of these bonds, we'll gain over half a million dollars in revenue a year, and we can continue to strike and get rid of debt in these old bonds. There's another SRF-Geo bond for $3.8 million. That's another $331,000 in revenue per year. If we can stair-step these bonds, we can actually get into some of the newer bonds, the 2021 facilities IPR bonds and the 2021 Geo bonds that total about a million and a half.

» I think it would take some time, but I would like to send this to finance for review. I think it's just a good way to position us for the future. I agree. Thank you. I would – the only thing I would say, I think it's a great idea. I guess I would ask, you know, obviously we've got in our rules that finance committee has, I think, two weeks. Obviously, as we're heading to budget cycle, this is obviously something that's going to be a little more nuanced in two weeks. It probably is something we can address as we bring up budget in March, kind of as a holistic approach.

» which I'm just thinking because we have a quarterly finance meeting at the end of the month, and then the other one's in, I think, you know, another – I thought the next one was in February, right, the end of February? Yeah, late January, early February. So I'm just saying like that, just as a kind of a heads up, it probably isn't something we'll have a report back in on February. It's 30 days, right? Yeah, whatever the time frame. But hold on, let me just – because the reason I'm bringing that up is until we see the budget, so whether or not the wisdom of saying, hey, let's put $1.7 million into these bonds, we won't really be able to speak to the wisdom of that until we see the other budget numbers, which we won't see until we get into the budget in, what, March or so, February, March.

» Right. So I know that after Mark and I spoke that Shaheen, Hancock, and Godwin regarding this, someone reached out to him to have him come to finance on January 30th. So he'll be – That's why I thought it was January 30th. He'll be talking to you guys on the 30th. I'd like to maybe follow up with a discussion in mid-February. Yeah, we want to do it the right way. We want to make sure that we're covering all our bases, covering all our needs. But, you know, if somebody said, hey, for a $2 million investment, I'm going to give you $530,000 a year, well, the net's only a million and a half. So it's a good investment to pay off some of this old debt. And I think it's just going to position the county for a better tomorrow. We're going to have other needs, other things are going to come up.

» So I think as we sit today, we're – nothing that we've done, things that happened in 2008 are obviously well out of our control. But we can take the reins and make some change for the future. Yeah, I don't disagree on that. I just want to kind of give an idea of the timeline, kind of what we're reading into January. And then we'll be able to report back in February where we're at. But I don't think we'll be sort of pen to paper numbers until we get at least a sense of what – making sure we don't have any holes in the budget is all I'm saying, just an expectation management thing. Yeah, yeah, I expect it to maybe play out through the entire budget cycle. But I wanted to start the conversation early.

» It's a goal of mine to get rid of some of this old debt and, again – Can we confirm, Danny, is he coming to talk to us on the quarterly finance committee meeting? Lauren, can you – Mark Wood, did he confirm? Yeah. Okay, perfect. Great. Also, if I may, Mr. Brazel, to your point, we have been – since 2022 when we put the sewer millage down to zero and we took advantage of our rate study and things of that nature, we have been able to go forward with some prepayments on these two particular bonds. So we had a prepayment in 2022-23 on 2008A of $340,000 and then $205,000 on 2008B. So this is something we kind of have baked into this – what I will call a debt strategy. And this is something I plan on talking about throughout this budget cycle.

» So that will be something we are very much interested in. This is, of course, sewer. These two bonds were taken out for sewer, so they're obviously paid back through sewer revenue and millage. But there's – to your point, there's other needs we have. You know, one of them I think about is our jail and our expansion there. So I certainly plan to have a debt strategy discussion as one of the cornerstones of the 24-25 budget cycle. And anywhere we can defease bonds, none of these bonds have any kind of prepayment penalties. So we're able to do that without penalty. So it would be a great time to discuss all this.

» Would it be a true statement to say that our sewer system is – if it were a private business, it would be turning a profit? Yes, it – in terms of our special revenue accounts, it is a very solvent and profitable. It stands on its own. It creates its own reserves, and it is self-sufficient, self-funded, and it's profitable. And it's perfectly legal to use that revenue to get rid of this old debt? Yes, yes. That would be my goal moving forward. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Brazel. Mr. Templer, is that still the current sewer balance, the $7 million? Yes, that's what we have set aside for our SRF obligation for the $10 million. Okay. We have that earmarked as matching funds for our wastewater, the $1 million gallon expansion project we currently have underway.

» So there's roughly – in that first bond, there's roughly $320,000 left if we made a prepayment of $340,000 and it was $668,000. Is there any reason why we can't go ahead and pay it off? We will look at it this year with – so the same strategy we used in 22-23, we'll use in 24-25. And then we will move to make prepayments. So I would think we could probably knock out a vast majority of 2008B just because that balance is so low. Okay. Obviously, we were putting more towards 2008A because the balance was higher. We're trying to move the needle proportionately with both bonds. And is this going to increase our bond capacity for the new jail? From a geo standpoint, it will, but we have a long way to go. Okay. Madam Chair. Ms.

» Hanna, can you put on February 13th agenda follow-up discussion for Mr. Brazel on this topic, please? Thank you. Mr. Jones, go ahead. Thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt. A couple of things. I don't think it's – I think it could be – there could be a negative effect with the jail bond as well as a positive effect. I think Ms. Templer probably realizes that. Also, when you talk about the sewer system to be very profitable due to our special revenue accounts, I'd like some clarification on our special revenue accounts. Mr. Jones, you'd like it right now, or this is a follow-up question you need to answer? I'm asking a question. So if we're profitable due to our special revenue accounts, I'm just saying for the public's interest, I just wanted clarification on our special revenue accounts.

» And I think we've got to do some soul-searching with the jail bond as well, too. And one thing, Mr. Brazel, thank you for thinking outside the box. I'm very interested. I can't say I'll support or not support this time, but I'm very interested in what you have to say and the hard work you've put into it. Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. Templer, what are our special revenue accounts? Is the sewer the only one? No, it would be solid waste, EMS. So just to kind of compare and contrast, solid waste is fee-based, and it's a static fee. It doesn't grow like millage. So it is supplemented by the general fund quite often. It doesn't have the ability to create reserves to buy equipment, so a lot of the capital equipment, those purchases are made from the capital reserves from the general fund.

» So it's not quite up on its own two legs. EMS, they have made capital purchases out of their capital reserve for that particular department fire is another example. They have had pretty healthy capital reserves over the years because they are millage-based. EMS is millage-based because there's organic growth in the mill as opposed to just solid waste with just a fee. And so in sewer, obviously, with the rate payers and millage, they have been able to have healthy reserves. Thank you. Mr. Brazel, thank you. Any other comments? Thank you. Concerns for the discussion? Thank you for putting us on agenda. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Jones, go ahead. Yes, sir. And I don't mean to interrupt. I just can't see people talking. If I interrupt, it's not on purpose.

» I do have some concerns and some questions and comments. Of course, I'm not going to make them over the phone. I can do it at the next county council meeting. But again, thank you, Mr. Brazel, for what you've done. Yes, sir. Thank you. I hope you're warm. It's cold. 74 degrees. It's cold here, Mr. Jones. I'll close this discussion. Again, thank you, Mr. Brazel, and we look forward to discussing it more.

» Item number 10, third reading of the Philo Ordinance for Sandywood Solar LLC, previously identified as Project Sandy, the Philo Agreement, authorizing pursuant to Title 12, Chapter 44 of the Code of Laws of South Carolina in 1976, as amended, the execution and delivery of a fee-in-lieu ad valorem taxes agreement by and between Kershaw County, South Carolina, and Sandywood Solar LLC, a company previously identified as Project Sandy as sponsor and one or more sponsored affiliates, to provide a fee-in-lieu of ad valorem tax incentive and certain special source revenue credits for the benefit of the project in the county and other related matters. Is there a motion at this time for this ordinance? Okay, motion to adopt the ordinance by Mr. Shoemake and second by Mr. Tomlinson.

» Into discussion, Mr. Shoemake, we'll go to you first. Sure. As to the bond issue, I think that was addressed, and I think to the extent we want to increase bonds, I think that we'd have to go into the statutes and increase those by ordinance across the board. I think it's a couple other important reasons. I think it was unanimously approved by the Planning Commission. That's one of the factors why I'm supporting it. A big reason is this is the amount that we asked for, the $3,000. It's the amount that led us to approve the other two of these projects that have already passed third reading. So I think it's only sort of fair and equitable as these came really to us as a package that we approved because they've done everything that we have asked them to do.

» I think these green energy, and it's just particularly these three that we're doing, they're good resources for recruiting other businesses. It's one of the questions I know businesses ask is what are our green energy policies. So I think that'll help us recruit these other businesses. We have the setback. Again, the contiguous neighbors appear to have been generally approving it. As Mr. Cato said, he had one person against, but the other folks either didn't say anything or seem to be approving it. So overall, I think it's important since we treat this company the same way we treated the other two. Now, perhaps in the future, as if other solar farms come, I think Mr.

» Tomlinson has made some really great points about that $3,000 maybe being a sort of, you know, this price we've given to these initial entries into the market, but maybe that number needs to go up for other solar farms. I'd also note that at 579 acres, just northeast of Camden is a pretty desirable area. And based on what I've seen in this county, I also worry that should we not approve this, the person who owns this land will just simply try to sell it to a developer, and then we'll see another 500 acre housing development. So for all those reasons, I think that we should be open for business on this, and I'm supportive of it. Madam Chair. Thank you. Mr. Tomlinson.

» I also, to support this, I think, you know, we've had a lot of conversation about where we're getting with the megawatt, and, you know, looking through Kershaw County's solar regulations, we're, we have some strength, some strict regulations as far as requiring the setback. The vegetation buffer is a huge piece to be for the adjacent property owners. I think, you know, a lot of solar got bad press back, you know, when they first started developing brilliant North Carolina, years, years back, before all these regulations were really put in place. We do have a stringent regulation for solar, and I think they're going to be a good partner for the community, and I'm excited to have them. I think in the future, you know, what it is going to is going to, we're going to be looking at dual use.

» So that's something that other places are doing across the nation. South Carolina has not hit yet, so what that is, is you, it has to be a dual use property. So the solar can either have crops around, or be able to have cattle, different things like that. I think that's something that we can look at in the future, but for now, I'm very excited to have you all as a community partner. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Band, I noticed on the public hearing, your address is in Durham. Where's your company located? So Sun Tribe was founded and is based in Charlottesville, Virginia. Okay. A lot of our staff is in the Carolinas, so I've been in Durham for the last 20 years, and then we also have someone in Charleston, South Carolina. Okay.

» Any business owners or any part of your business here in Kershaw County? Not specifically in Kershaw County. Okay. Mr. Kato, did you have something? I just wanted to say, and Ms. Huff, I appreciate you calling me. We had a very good conversation on the phone, and I appreciate you reaching out. I really do. I had a very good conversation. You raised a lot of concerns that I also had, and I think they were answered tonight. I feel like this would be a great step for Kershaw County. I, too, as Councilman Shumate brought up, I'm concerned what may happen through this developer.

» If this doesn't happen, what may come? And what may come is something that I don't think Kershaw County needs any more of, and I'll leave it there, but I just wanted to say thank you as a citizen of Kershaw County and of that area for reaching out to me and giving me your input and for speaking tonight. I wanted to thank you for that, but I will have to support this tonight. Mr. Brazel, Mr. Jones? Mr. Jones, you first, sir. I'm ready for the vote. You're ready for a vote? Okay. I've got a couple things. Mr. Brazel has some discussion questions. Mr. Burgess, would you mind? Yes, sir.

» So a question for you, being a lot more knowledgeable than I, in this world, are you comfortable with the defeasement bond, and is it consistent with the other projects? It is consistent with the other projects. The nice thing about how this ordinance was done, as Mr. Band pointed out, it is a very strict one, especially when you look at surrounding counties and what they have. So with how that's been written and how it's been prepared, I'm very comfortable with where it's at. Okay. And how it's structured. You feel that it's adequate? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm going to lean on you tonight. I, for one, am not a big fan of solar farms. I don't think they're attractive. I know this property in particular was marketed for a horse community for years and years and years.

» And unfortunately, I think the downturn restricted that property from, from being developed in the horse farms and mini farms. It's a nice track of land. I'm familiar with it. Um, but I also believe in personal property rights and the landowner's right to do what he chooses. Um, it was very important to me. So, uh, for those reasons, I will support the project tonight. Thank you. I don't have any questions, Mr. Burgess. Did anyone want to see the map of the track of land? I would like to. For Mr. Band. Okay. Mr. Band, can you show us that, please? Um, that's a question for Chris. Yeah, let's put it up on the computer. Oh, I got old eyes. You got that flash drive? Uh, yes, I can get it from my eye. Mr. Burgess, can you hand that to Mr. Bowes, to Bowes, and we can pass it around? Thank you.

» Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Jones. Go ahead. We are looking at the map of the track of land right now. Have y'all not looked at it before this meeting? I'm asking a question. Um, not a visual representation. No, sir. At least I haven't. I'll speak for myself. Um, I did look at it on GIS. There is a plat number in the FLO agreement. And Chris is also putting in a flash drive so that he can show the public the, um, visual track of land. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. I can't hear what's going on. Mr. Band is giving Chris a flash drive. They're going to put it up on the screen so the public can see the track of land also. Because in the ordinance, it just is described as a tax parcel map. While they're doing that, um, this position as a representative is very much complaint based.

» So, um, we have done other FLO agreements for other solar farms, um, with no opposition from the public. This is the first one that I've been involved in that did have public opposition. Um, so I will not be supporting it tonight. Um, I appreciate Mr. Band and his company and their, um, initiative to invest in Kershaw County. Um, but I cannot sit here and represent the people that actually live here, um, and go against something that they are adamantly against. And as far as the, the track being turned into a development or a, another neighborhood that we don't need, um, we're currently working on putting measures in place for that not to happen. And I'm confident that the comprehensive plan and the new ZLDR will be, um, done by then. So I'm not worried about that at all.

» Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. Ms. Hoof, where do you live in relation to this project? How far do you live from it? Madam Chair. Madam Chair. Mr. Jones, you are next. Just a second. I know you can't hear Ms. Hoof. I have a problem because the question is being asked to a member of the audience and they're not at the microphone and I'm not hearing what's going on. Yes, sir. Just a second. Ms. Hoof, can you approach that? I call a point, I call a point of order on asking a member of the audience a question in the middle of our discussion when they're not talking where I can hear what they're saying. Yes, sir. I agree with you and I'm sorry about that. Mr. Cato, answer, ask your question again and Ms. Hoof answer in the microphone, please. Thank you.

» I was just wanting to know in relation to your residence. Where's your residence in relation to the project? So I currently live on Old Georgetown Road. I have about 150 acres of family property that is probably about five miles from this current project. I currently work in Lugoff, so I drive by this project every day. But my main concern is there has been some rumblings in the small community of another one that is coming that will border my family property which is right by the substation that is there and the transmission line. Mr. or Ms. Hoof, I'm sorry, this isn't for you. I know we have the company here. Is the landowner here tonight? Madam Chair. Yes, sir. I call a question. I'm calling for the vote. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jones. We have two circles here. Let's vote.

» I was going with Mr. Burgess to answer the question as far as what she had about the other project. I am not aware of any other one looking up there. They generally do not come to our office first. They will talk to landowners prior to ever coming to us first. So if there is one looking, it hasn't approached our office yet. The rest are located out toward Cassett or toward Bethune. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? All right. With that, all those in favor of the third reading of the FLO ordinance for Sandy Wood Solar LLC, previously identified as Project Sandy FLO agreement, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Brazel, Mr. Jones, how do you vote? I vote no. And I also vote no. Against Mr. Jones and Ms. Gwynn. All right.

» This ordinance does pass third reading. All right. Item number 11 tonight. Resolutions. Resolution approving Kershaw County Council meeting dates for 2024. Everyone should have the resolution in their agenda packet, number 001, 2024. Is there a motion regarding this resolution? This is this. I would move that we adopt the resolution. Okay. Motion to adopt the resolution by Mr. Shoemake. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. And into discussion. I just have a question. Does it make sense since we're probably going to do it anyway? I see that we have a December 24th meeting, and I don't know if that's the week of Thanksgiving. Does it make sense now to? Okay. So, yeah. So I would make a motion, so we don't have to do it at a later meeting.

» I would make a motion to amend the resolution to strike the December 24th meeting. Okay. I'll second that. Okay. Motion to amend the resolution scheduled to strike December 24th, 2024. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. I planned on doing that anyways. I don't know that anybody wants to meet on Christmas Eve. Maybe Mr. Jones. Okay. Any other discussion on that strike? Okay. All those in favor of striking Tuesday, December 24th, 2024, from our resolution 001-2024, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Kato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Brazel. Mr. Jones, how do you vote? No. Okay. Mr. Jones, no. Okay. Any other discussion? I see in the November 26th, it's two days prior to Thanksgiving. I don't know if we want to go ahead and move that to the week before.

» Are you making an amendment? Recommendation. See if there's any interest. I'm happy to make a motion for it if you'd like, but I mean, I know a lot of people are, families are traveling that week. A lot of people are going to be gone. So that would put us at, if we did, if we moved it, we'd have a meeting on the 12th and the 19th. I'm good with that. We did meet before Thanksgiving this year. Yeah, I'm in town. It doesn't matter to me. I'll do whatever. Yes, we met on the 7th and the 21st this year. I wouldn't be supportive of going to just one in November and one in December. I would be in supportive of moving it. We've always done two meetings in November. You want to do the Tuesday before? Why don't we do the 1st and 3rd? 1st and 3rd Tuesday instead of the 2nd and 2nd and 4th.

» November 7th. So that would be the 5th. Why don't we handle it when we get to it? Amen. I'm happy to do that too. Yeah, the 5th is also election day. Yep. Okay. Well, we have meetings on election day. We have meetings on election day. We never counseled a council meeting on election day. Thank you, Mr. Jones. I think the consensus here is during the discussion that we'll leave it as is and when we get to September, October of next year, we will address what we're going to do. Okay. All those in favor of Resolution 001, 2024, as amended, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Brazel, and Mr. Jones, how do you vote? What was the amendment? The amendment was to remove Tuesday, December 24th, Christmas Eve, from the schedule of county council dates.

» Do it now? I'm sorry? What did you say? Do it now. You're making that change now, just for December? No, sir. You voted against that, but it did pass. So that December 24th has been stricken. What are we voting on now? Now we're voting on the rest of the resolution the rest of the year. That was the only amendment was taking Christmas Eve off the schedule. Got you. For whatever reason, the mics are cutting in and out, and I apologize. It might be my phone. I apologize. I'm just not getting all the conversation. That's no problem. So how do you vote on the rest of the schedule for 2024, not meeting on December 24th? That's what you mean for the final product, not the amendment. Correct. I vote yes. Okay. All right.

» This is our new schedule for 2024, and we'll address any holidays or issues as we come to them throughout the year. Right. Item number 12 tonight, new business. This is a lease purchase for a roll-off for solid waste. This is the administrator's agenda item, so I'll give the floor to you, Mr. Templer. Madam Chair, members of council, thank you. So I had originally put this on here to take advantage of availability of a roll-off truck for solid waste. Due to supply issues and just normal purchasing of large equipment and back orders, if we were to purchase a roll-off from this budget year, they will not be available until 2026. For solid waste, we just simply cannot do that. This was an opportunity to lease a roll-off and then make the purchase coming up.

» We would have in 24-25 budget cycle, but this vehicle was since sold, but I would still ask council to allow me that if that situation comes up again to where we're able to lease a vehicle. I don't have one identified, but we will continue to surge. We're in desperate need of roll-off vehicles just due to the age of our fleet and the duty cycles we put on these vehicles on a daily basis to have the ability to seek out a short-term lease until our budget is finalized and make this purchase through our capital reserves out of the general fund. If you have any questions on that, I know it's kind of an open-ended piece, but we are seeking new equipment. Otherwise, it will be 2026 before we would have this in our possession. Okay.

» Do you have a dollar amount? Typically, well, the lease we were looking at was about $4,000 a month. That would have come out of the line item for solid waste in no effect to our current budget. I would say probably around $300,000 approximately for this vehicle from a purchase standpoint. And of course, that would come out of our capital reserves. So it's just one vehicle? Just one vehicle. We certainly wouldn't go and be that brave to buy two. We've just something to kind of hold us over. We have a spare vehicle, but it is obviously the oldest one in the fleet. That's kind of been our practice in the past. Take the oldest vehicle, roll it into a spare capacity. So when things are being serviced and vehicles are being serviced, we can still kind of keep going. Yeah.

» So we need this to move all the debris from all of our recycling centers to the landfill. Yes. Sounds like a necessary evil. Yes. But of course, if it comes up, if we identify an opportunity, I would certainly bring it before y'all again. But I just want the ability to go ahead and make the purchase or at least enter into a lease understanding that we're going to purchase this vehicle. We only had about a three-day window. We asked the company if they would allow us to just have this process here tonight and with a favorable outcome tonight. We would have made efforts tomorrow to go with the vehicle, but they sold it that next day. So there's a high demand. I have a question. Yes, Mr. Jones, go ahead. But this is a non-budget item.

» So therefore, the administrator is bringing it for us, which is the right thing to do, which he has to do. However, are we voting on something we don't have the specs for and procurement hasn't handled yet? Correct. That's correct. Right. That's why I was asking him if we had a dollar amount. I have to vote no on that. If I'm going to vote yes, I want to know what I'm voting for exactly when you're talking about $300,000. If I understand what you're saying, what you're saying, if I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, is the one downside of waiting until we have the exact specs is you kind of grab these things when they have them. And when it comes up, if you have to wait, you may lose it. Correct.

» If we approve it and we have the specs, then they go out for it or do they order it? So this, under this scenario, it would be on a lot and we wouldn't, we know what we need in terms of, so it would be a Mack roll-off chassis upfitted to handle our roll-off dumpsters and our compactors that are solid waste. So we know that. We just don't know if it would be a Mack or a Kenworth or an Oshkosh. It could be any manufacturer. We're trying to just be opportunistic here. Otherwise, we'll be waiting until 26 with vehicles that are already five years old. And let me say this, I have the most trust in my county administrator. I support him and he knows that, but I just don't like this. I don't like to do business like this. I would have to go know on this.

» If we're going to buy that expensive piece of equipment, I want the specs. I want to know what it, you know, exactly what we're doing it for. Right now we're saying, okay, go ahead and we're going to give this leeway to do this. And we don't know what we're going to buy. We know, we know generically what we're going to buy, but not factually, we don't know. I just have a problem with that and no pun intended, but I won't support that. What are you, what are you looking for right now? Danny, what, what would be the vote you would be looking for? Just to authorize us to engage with vendors and that if we can enter into a lease until we can purchase through the budget process. So I'll go ahead and I'm going to make that, that motion with a small caveat.

» I would make a motion that we authorize the county administrator to negotiate with vendors and make that purchase a feasible. The caveat being that the county administrator is authorized subject to the consultation with chairwoman Gwen. That way there's at least, you know, if it can come to council, that's great. If not, you can, he talks to you, you'll know. And that way there's still some elected official involved, but I also don't want to miss the opportunity for some, you know, great, you know, some great price. So that's my motion. As I explained it before, I said that. Can you restate your motion? Yes, sorry. I would move that we authorize the county administrator to have purchase discussions or lease discussions with vendors to purchase this vehicle for solid waste.

» The caveat being that that, that, that authorization would be in consultation with the chairwoman. I'll second. Mr. Tomlinson seconds and into discussion. Um, I'm, I just want to make sure there's a dollar amount. So purchase it or lease it or you need the option. Let me say something. We don't need to make a motion to let the county, to part of the county administrator into negotiations with contractors or vendors. He has that authority to do that. So that motion to me makes no sense. Um, go, go research, get the piece of equipment you want, bring it back before us and we'll vote on it. And I will certainly vote to approve this, even though it wasn't a forecast in our, in our budget last year. And, and I understand these things, but this is 300 something thousand dollars.

» We don't need to give him permission to go discuss and, and, and research with vendors. He has that power already, but when he finds what he wants, bring it back to us, do it by procurement bids. If you have to, I mean, we have a process to do this very transparent and I'm just a little bit concerned to go down this road. To, and to be clear, to be clear, the motion was to allow him to negotiate and purchase with consultation with the chair. Yeah. Well, I can't go along with that because we don't know what they're going to purchase, but Hey, I'm just one person. Yeah. Yeah.

» Any other items for discussion questions? Is there, is there any way that you would be able to come back at the next council meeting in two weeks? Or is that, would that be too late? You know, we, we tried this, this happened Friday and it was, or Thursday and it was sold Friday. So, you know, there, there may not be another opportunity like this. And then we're just waiting until 2026. Well, and that's one of the reasons too. I like, I was delegating to Madam chair. Cause I mean, obviously look, if she looks at it and she says, look, this can wait, you know, I mean, I trust, obviously I trust the County administrator, but that adds a, an accountability level into it. And if it needs to happen, then. I trust the County administrator. It has nothing to do with that. It's nothing personal.

» It's just the way I do business. Or you could treat it the same way we treat it. I've never, I've never, I've never known County council to do this in my 18 years. And so Mr. Shoemake, I appreciate the vote of trust in this position as well. I'm not an expert in Mack trucks or roll off. So I wouldn't know if we're getting a good deal or not. That's why I think the procurement process is important. So I'm not comfortable arbitrarily without a purchase price. That's kind of where I'm at. Like go look for this truck. And when you find it, purchase it. And it's not about trust either. I just, um, I have to agree with Mr. Jones on this, that, um, once you find one, bring it to us.

» Um, even if we need to call a special meeting, if time, if these trucks are going so fast, that it's something of timeliness that you need a vote from us, I think that this council should do that in their positions. I'm not saying anybody did, but I don't like loopholes going around out of procurement. And to me, that's what it is, a loophole. And it's, and no pun intended. Nobody's done anything wrong. He's been very transparent and very honest, which I appreciate, but I stand my ground. This is not a way we should be doing business on County Council because they're purchasing a $300,000 piece of equipment. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Anything else? So I had to kind of tend to agree with him on that point.

» Um, you know, I wanted to pay off a $600,000 bond and I was told it was going to take the entire budget process. And in the next breath, we're spending half that much on a truck on a whim. So I say it should go to finance. Um, but I do understand Danny's situation. Trucks are terribly hard to get Mr. Blizzard sitting in the back. He's probably waiting on 10 right now that he ordered two years ago. So, um, I understand your position. Yeah. And to, to be clear, uh, you know, that that is to me, the difference, the critical difference is we could miss out and end up three, two, three years on a truck.

» Whereas the bond issue, if we decided to pay it now or decided in three months to pay it, it's a fairly negligible difference, but this could be the difference acting now versus going into that cycle could be the difference between waiting, you know, a couple of years. But if we paid the bond off, we could save enough to buy the truck. Um, okay. Let's stay on topic. Is this an emergency? It will be. Okay. But it's not right now. No. Okay. Um, so what I would like to see happen is you continue to negotiate and look for a truck. And when you find one, um, you let me know and we call a meeting. And if, if that person selling the truck is not willing to wait, whatever that time, I mean, that's just, we're, we're in the government. That's what we have to do. That's a process we have to follow.

» You have to go through. Do we have a motion on the floor though to vote upon? Yeah, we do. We currently do have a motion on the floor to vote upon. And I stand by that motion. So. And I second the motion. Anything else? No. The only thing about the motion that councilman, she made is the fact that the chair woman, if I look at it, the chair woman doesn't want to do it based on your motion. So I would have a problem with her not feeling comfortable doing it. If she felt. No, I do not feel like. If she felt comfortable doing it, I would, I would be in favor, but she doesn't feel comfortable. So I want this body's vote on a $300,000 piece of equipment. Madam chair. Absolutely. Because I feel like that's what the people put us here to do. Yes, sir. Madam chair.

» I'm highly uncomfortable not going through our procurement and not handling this the way we handle everything. We're talking about $300,000. And to me, we don't, we're saying, we don't know what we're going to buy because we don't know what's available. Well, find it, tell them to hold it. You'll get the money for it. The county minister will get the money for it. If you bring something back to us, he can show us the money's there. And this is an emergency, something we need to get. He'll get the money for it and we'll purchase it. I just, but I cannot, cannot. I just think we're going down a dangerous path if we're going to sit here and skirt around our procurement. And to me, that's what we're doing. I don't know. Hold on.

» At what point are y'all getting that I'm trying to go around our procurement? I have concerns with that. What, if I am going to lease a vehicle until we can make this purchase through our budget process, through capital reserves, help me understand how I am going around our procurement? I don't think you are. I agree. If you're going to lease a piece of equipment, you're going to lease a piece of equipment and you're going, you know, you're going to purchase it, then get permission to lease it and then come back and get permission to purchase it. And Mr. Jones and Mr. Templer, you just had this happen Thursday, correct? So on Thursday, what, that's five days ago? Five days ago, you had a piece of equipment that then you were planning on bringing to us today. Correct.

» To enter into a lease. And it was gone. Right. And it was gone. And so now we're looking at going forward. And if we're looking at the two-year time window, I mean, that equipment's going to be even more expensive. So let's take that $300,000, let's probably make it $400,000 by then. I think the county administrator has every right to be able to lease a piece of equipment that we strictly need since we have 11 or 12 recycling centers around the county that we provide to our citizens. So I need clarification on the motion because I thought it was to negotiate and purchase. You do not want anybody to have the authority to go lease anything and put us in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars unless it comes before this county council.

» And I'm not saying the county administrator himself is literally trying to go around procurement. I'm just saying that's my opinion on how we're doing it. And that's my opinion. I stand by it. It has nothing to do with thinking anybody's doing anything crooked. I don't think you guys do anything crooked. I just think y'all understand where I'm coming from on this. Let me, let me help find a happy median real quick, Mr. Jones, if I may. There is no happy, there's not a happy meeting with me. We go through procurement. Okay. Could I have a minute? Yes, Mr. Braslow, you can. Danny, you're, you're authorized, Mr. Templer, excuse me. You're authorized to spend up to $25,000.

» So what I'd like to do is I'd like to make a motion to let you put a deposit on a vehicle so that you can then bring it before us. Is that a feasible option? I think we have to check, we need to check our procurement. And Mr. Braslow, I like that, but I would, I would warn us to let's, let's check our procurement and make sure we can do that. Now, he does have $25,000 correct, but let's make sure that we're doing it right. That's all I'm saying, guys, is make sure we're doing it. Mr. DeBose, would that be legal? I'd have to review the procurement code in depth, but certainly report back on it. Yeah, well, to, to be clear, my question was to Mr. Templer. I mean, I think that it is legal if we vote upon it. I'm, I'm, I'm comfortable with that. I was asking Mr.

» Templer, if that's a fee, if that's even feasible, would that be helpful with that sort of motion? If point of order, um, Mr. Braslow, you made a motion. I did. Okay. Is there a second on Mr. Braslow? I'll second it. Okay. Second for Mr. Shoemake. And then we're going back to the first. I'm sorry. Mr. Braslow made a motion to, Mr. Braslow made a motion for Mr. Templer to put a deposit. On a vehicle to purchase, and then come back to us with that vehicle for, um, the rest of the purchase. But that he's authorized to put a deposit down on it. And my, and the question on the floor to Mr. Templer is, is, is that feasible? Would that help you, or is that not helpful? No, because the last individual just paid for the truck or leased it. He, he leased it to the tune of, I think, $4,700 a month.

» That's what we were looking at entering into. That's why this item was on the, uh, the agenda to enter into a lease for $4,700 a month until we were able to purchase that vehicle through the budget process. So, um, you know, if I will say this, I can, I can just withdraw this item and, um, we could just go through the budget process and, um, you know, the, the, the equipment lands on our territory when it lands on. Well, I'm not withdrawing my motion. I mean, I think you're in time to have it. So my motion is down. Okay. First, we're going to, let me, let me say this, Mr. Shoemake. Okay. You, you had our county attorney just say, he doesn't know that this fits our procurement until he looks at it. That's Russell's motion. That's not my motion. Mr.

» Jones, we're going back to the first motion. Okay. Um, which was Mr. Shoemake's motion to authorize the administrator to purchase, to negotiate and purchase the lease for the roll-off truck. It was seconded by Mr. Tomlinson. Um, it's been well discussed. So I'm going to call for. Is that $47,000 a month? A hundred. Forty-seven hundred. Forty-seven hundred a month? There's not, there is not a dollar amount in his motion. No. That came up in the discussion. I can't support that. I can't. I'm sure you get that. I can't support that. Is that your state? Is that your. You guys go ahead and do what you. Is that your stance? You guys do what you want to do. That's nuts.

» My stance is when he finds one, he lets me know and I'll call a special meeting so that we can at least get a quorum and move it through as fast as possible. That's very transparent and very accountable. Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay. Motion on the floor is to authorize the administrator to negotiate and purchase the lease agreement for the roll-off truck for solid waste with no dollar amount. All those in favor of that motion indicate by raising your hand. Correct. That's the only reason. That's the only reason. With the county council chair. Mr. Schumacher, if you wouldn't mind, tell me again the wording. Yeah, well, I don't have any trouble with the motion either. We could put the chairman of finance, which is Councilman Tucker. Yeah, I mean, I just thought that it added some oversight.

» But if that's going to cause more issues, then I would just, you know, clarify my motion to be that a motion to authorize the county administrator to authorize to negotiate and purchase a lease agreement, you know, of up to 5,000 a month. I think it would need to go to 5,000 a month. Okay. Motion on the floor is. For what? What is he going to buy? A truck. That is part of the motion. What kind of truck? A Mack truck that hauls. A solid waste roll-off truck. Big metal boxes for the trash. Just a second, Mr. Jones. Okay. The motion on the floor, and Mr. Schumacher can correct me if I'm wrong because it is his motion and he's clarified it. And Mr. Tomlinson, also clarify if you still second.

» For the county administrator to negotiate and purchase the lease agreement for a roll-off truck for solid waste up to $5,000 a month. Mr. Tomlinson. Second. Okay. That's the motion on the floor. That's what we are going to vote on right now. Okay. All those in favor of that motion indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Jones, how do you vote? A big, fat no. Okay. Mr. Jones, opposed? All those opposed? Mr. Cato, myself, and Mr. Brazel? Okay. That motion failed. The next motion is Mr. Brazel's motion to authorize the administrator to put a deposit on a vehicle to purchase a lease agreement. I withdraw the motion. Okay. Mr. Brazel withdraws the motion. Okay. Any other motions? Mr. Templer, anything? No, ma'am. Okay.

» Is there any way that he can, if he finds a vehicle, we could send it and let finance make the decision to keep us from losing a vehicle? No, we have a special call. Hold on, Mr. Jones. To give us an opportunity to keep from losing a vehicle until 2026? When you say finance, you mean the finance committee? Finance committee. I think that would take longer, but yes, anything can be referred to the finance committee at any time. They're not a quorum. You cannot do that. They're not a quorum. They report back to the council. They don't report back to the staff. Yes, Mr. Jones, you are correct. Mr. Cato's question was, can it be referred to them, not can they make the ultimate decision? And yes, it can be referred to them. I just think that would delay the process.

» This, it sounds like this body needs to make a decision before the finance committee would ever even take it up. Well, it just, it, it, it, it just delays it for, if he has to take the finance committee to then bring it to us, this is delayed. Just find a vehicle, get the specs on it, tell us what it is, and come to us and we'll approve $300,000. If the administrator has $25,000, um, he can spend it anyway, is that a month, is that a year? Um, technically, is that a month? That there's a one-time fee? I mean, that's five months right there. If we have $5,000, like that could be the lease agreement until we do have the budget. Mr. Tomlinson. Point of order. Point of order, Madam Chair, point of order, point of order. Yes, Mr.

» Jones, what's your point of order? We've already voted this down. We need to move on to the next agenda item. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jones. The next item on agenda is number 13, appointments. We have three vacancies on the Assessment Appeals Board. One vacancy on the Clean Community Commission, which is still a City of Camden appointment and Planning Commission, one vacancy. Are there any nominations tonight for the Assessment Appeals Board from the floor? Okay. Clean Community Commission. So, question. Yes. Have we heard back from the City of Camden? I personally have not. Ms. Hannah, do we have any information? Okay. Could we make a recommendation even if we don't have an application on file? No, sir. No, because we do have to have the person's application. I wish you could.

» I wish you could, sir. But that's within our guidelines and rules. But if you have someone in mind, tell them to apply in the next night. Are you still interested? Maybe. Okay. We'll talk later. Okay. Clean Community. That was for the Clean Community Commission. Planning Commission, one vacancy. Any nominations from the floor? And Ms. Hannah, let the record show Mr. Tomlinson is no longer at the meeting. All right. No appointments. If you're interested in being on any of these boards or commissions, please go to the website, kershaw.sc.gov, and fill out an application. All right. Up to council briefings. Yes, absolutely. Who are you talking to? I can't hear. I'm talking to Lieutenant Hudson. Mr. Band is leaving, and he's getting back his photograph of the Sandy Wood Project.

» You're welcome. All right. Council briefs. Mr. Brazel, can you start us off tonight, please? Yeah, absolutely. It's good to be in a new year. And Mr. Webb, it's good to see you. You've been here. This is my fourth year, and you've been here just about every meeting, and I'm always glad to hear what you had to say as I reflected on some of the comments that you made about the public forum and the way we allow people to come in here and speak. I was looking at a Liberty magazine, and on the back of it, there was a quote from Frederick Douglas that said, Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one's thought and opinions has ceased to exist. And we never want that to be this body. So we appreciate you being here.

» Appreciate you talking about all the interesting things that you do and everyone else that comes to speak. Glad to have you, but we do appreciate it when you keep it clean. So we do have a certain decorum here, and we want to have a family-friendly environment when, if at all possible. So that's all I really have. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brazl. Mr. Chumick. Yeah, not much. I just wanted to say it's good to be back. Happy New Year to everyone. And, you know, obviously, in terms of the, I know we kind of talked that truck issue to death, but it sounds like everybody's amenable to making themselves quickly available for a special call meeting, Mr. Templar. So whenever you do have that, I know that, I think we'll be able to get your quorum pretty quickly on that.

» So I think that'll ultimately be a moot point. And otherwise, that was, that's all I had. I just want to say, and I know Chairwoman Gwen mentioned this at the beginning, but again, just want to send condolences to Councilman Jones and the loss of his brother. And of course, Mr. Tucker is not here with us on the loss of his mother. Her service is tomorrow, I believe, at 10 a.m. at her church. I have to look again at the website, but the visitation was tonight during this meeting, but her service is tomorrow, I believe, at 10 a.m. 10 or 11. Thank you, Mr. Chumick. Mr. Cato. Just wanted to start out tonight. I wanted to, thank you, Mr. Webb. I really enjoy some of your presentations. You really have a lot of good information, and I appreciate that.

» I want to, I want to say something about this project. I want to, I want to tell Ms. Huff, I understand your concerns. I really do. And especially the concern of more projects coming nearby. And I can assure you, as your representative, I will not support another facility going anywhere close to this one. So, one would be enough in that area, is what I'm saying. So, you will, they will not have my support on any other, any other projects, solar projects that close to this one, okay? I want to move on, and I want to also send my condolences to Councilman Johns and his family on the loss of his brother, and also to Sammy, and on the loss of his mother. But I also want to, I also want to send my condolences out to the Charles McCoy family. Charles McCoy was a former mayor in Bethune.

» Charles was also a leader with the Bethune Fire Department and Rescue Squad for many, many, many years. And my heartfelt condolences go out to his wife, and to his children, Ginger and Chris, and he will be greatly missed in that area. So, my condolences go out to them. Thank you all for your time. I know this was a pretty exciting meeting for the first meeting of the year, but I appreciate everybody's attention to us. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cato. Mr. Jones? Yes, I have a couple of things to say. One, I want to start by saying, I send my condolences to Mr. Tucker, the loss of his mother. I have reached out to him. Also, secondly, thank you to each one of y'all for your reaching out to me during the time of the loss of my brother.

» He was a great man, and he was a hero to me, and he was the happy one, I'm the serious one. We were nothing alike. But he has certainly missed by our family. Now, let me move on to another item. You know, everybody's talking about congratulating and thanking everybody for getting up and speaking on what they say and how much you support hearing from the people. Well, I have something I want to say, too. Nobody was cutting anybody's free speech. I was talking about keeping it germane to our meetings and under our budget process, which covers a lot of material to let us move on. However, I am absolutely for an open forum. I absolutely am. And I'm going to put it on the agenda for the next council meeting, where we have an open forum, where everybody wants to hear everybody speak.

» We're going to open it up. And my proposal will be to open it up and engage with the public. So that will be on the next agenda. I support that. Everybody talking to Mr. Webb, I'll talk to Mr. Webb. Mr. Webb, I'm going to put it on there where we can talk to you back and forth, because we want public input, obviously, from this county council. So if we're going to do it, let's do it right. Okay? And again, I think council worked as the council should work tonight. I commend all my colleagues. You stood by your points. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me on certain things. That's okay. But I'm looking forward to this next year. And it's only going to get more straight. We need to watch our tax dollars. We need to watch what we spend. We need to watch what's being built.

» We need, you know, we're working on a lot of things here, guys. And we need to make sure it gets done. And we don't have a whole lot of extra money. Anyway, Madam Chair, that concludes my comments. Thank you, Mr. Jones. All right, I have a couple of things tonight. So some heavy conversations on growth issues. So I just want to address some of them. Mr. Shoemake is working on changes to the ZLDR. I'm working on things. I think everyone on council is very growth-minded and trying to address this the best we can in the comprehensive plan. And even before the new ZLDR is published, putting things in place, those will go to the Planning Commission first and then come before county council. We do hear you.

» Highway 1, I am absolutely going to advocate for it at the COG to get money to fix Highway 1, to widen Highway 1, turning lanes. All the things that you're calling me and telling me that we need on Highway 1, I'm with you. I agree. It took us a while to get that area of Kershaw County into a COG that they could be eligible for money. They were in Richland, but they were low man on the totem pole and did not get any of the dollars that were going to Richland County. So we're in a new COG now, so my expectation is that Santee Lynch's COG is not going to do the same thing that the Central Midlands COG did, which was not make Lugoff-Elgin a priority. So you have my word on that. As far as the Planning Commission, Commissioner Fiona Martin was voted as the chair.

» So Chairwoman Fiona Martin of the Planning Commission. I want to congratulate her. She is very brilliant. She has a lot of great ideas. She's been very helpful with the comprehensive plan and the new ZLDR coming out. So congratulations to her, and I look forward to working with her. Last Friday, we had the annual legislative breakfast sponsored by the Alpha Center to hear from the local delegation. And there's some really great things going on at the state level that are going to impact Kershaw County. So I'll keep you updated on that. Ms. Hannah, I would like you to get Senator Penry Gustafson on one of the agenda meetings to give us a brief from the state senate. Similarly, what we did with Mr. Connell last year. I'm really proud of the Kershaw County delegation.

» They're working together, and they have a lot of great things coming up. So we'll make sure that we get someone from the delegation here to let the citizens of Kershaw County know what they're going to plan on doing this session. Our tentative council budget retreat is March 2nd and 3rd. Ms. Reeder will put out a press release when those dates are solidified. But that will kick off our budget cycle. And last year, we did a very robust budget retreat, in part because it was my first year. And I wanted to hear from every single department. We're going to do a more condensed version this year.

» But as always, it will be open to the public, and this is an opportunity for the departments to brief council on last year's budget, their anticipation for next year's budget, and also request anything that they might need. The budget retreat goes right into our goal planning session, where council will choose goals for the upcoming budget. And another hot topic, the potential development of the equine training center in Camden being developed. I will not, if council, if any part of this issue comes to county council, I will not be supporting it. I will not, I think Mr. Shoemake said it best, he's not going to support anything that adds density to Kershaw County, and I'm with him on that. I won't be supporting anything. It's not in front of county council.

» We don't have anything to do with it right now. But I do receive a lot of phone calls about that. So just know that's where I stand in this seat. I will not be supporting the equine training center being developed in Camden, if it ever comes in front of county council. So this Saturday, the concerned citizens of Kershaw County are going to have the annual MLK Unity Celebration. Saturday, January 13th, it will start at the African American Cultural Center on York Street at 11 a.m. There will be a march to City Hall, where the Unity Celebration will begin at 12 noon. And I just want to read a little bit of the letter that the concerned citizens of Kershaw County sent to county council.

» We invite you to share your influence and presence with the Kershaw County citizens as we join together to commemorate the life and legacy of Dr. King. We are hopeful that you will consider this an opportunity to share and celebrate with the concerned citizens, the Camden Kershaw branch of the NAACP, City of Camden, the concerned clergy, Unity in the Community, and other community organizations. We look forward to seeing you in hopes of showing unity and solidarity to our community as we celebrate this memorable MLK Unity event. So please, if you are in town this weekend, please make plans to go to that event. All right, that's it. Mr. Templer. Just one quick thing. I'd just like to thank everybody for the response, for the weather that came through the day.

» You never know what these things are going to bring. As soon as you prepare for everything, it just kind of blows through. But as soon as you're not prepared, then that's when you really get caught. But for all our first responders, the power companies, and everybody that got out there, all it works, solid waste, being out there and ready to go. Whether you had to do anything or not, you were standing there at the ready in case something was needed. So I really appreciate everybody's response to the weather incident today. That's my report. Yes, thank you for bringing that up, and council members, thank you for being available for council tonight. We do have several employees that were out working in the storm, and I do think we had a responsibility to still meet tonight.

» So thank you, Danny, for bringing that up. Mr. DuBose. No update, Madam Chair. You've referenced the fact that several growth-targeted initiatives are coming down the pipeline. Mr. Shoemake and you, as well as several other council members, have been communicating with staff and legal on that. And those matters, again, will start appearing before you all. If they require Planning Commission approval, second meeting in February, then, again, as an organic process, probably through March and April for various aspects. Yes, thank you for that. The second meeting in February. That'll be, we're on track for the second meeting in February for the one we had talked about. Correct. And the little one for next meeting. Correct. Cool. Mr.

» DuBose, do you, off the top of your head, know when that Planning Commission meeting is? I believe it is the second Monday of the month. Okay, February 12th. Yeah. I believe that's correct, Madam Chair. And then we'll meet the next day, February 13th. It'll be the second and fourth. Let me check that website to make sure. I know we just had a meeting last night, which was the 8th. So, yeah, that would have been the second Monday. Okay. Yeah. So the Planning Commission will be taking up a growth-related issue. Correct. Next month. Okay. Thank you, Mr. DuBose. Madam Chair, can I mention one thing? Yes. Mr. Basel, go ahead. The Lugolf-Elgin community lost James Hall as well. We've had a lot of deaths over this holiday season.

» And I'd like to extend my condolences to the Hall family and Lugolf. I have known him for years. And his son, Dwayne, works with us at Roy's Wood Products. And they're all part of our extended family. So he was very instrumental in girls softball and baseball, and I think he even had a field built on Smith Road years ago. So he was very involved in our community. So thank you. Thank you, Mr. Basel. Mr. Shoemake, do you have something? Well, I just wanted to mention, too, it's Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. I know the day's almost over, but I particularly want to thank our deputies that are here and here, you know, every second and fourth Tuesday and many other meetings. So, again, National Law Enforcement Appreciation. Thank you both, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right.

» Up to item number 17, adjournment. Is there a motion to adjourn? Okay. Mr. Cato with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Basel. Any discussion? All right. All those in favor of adjourning this meeting, indicate by raising your hand.