Full meeting transcript - November 28, 2023

» Hey, Russell, this is Ryan Monaghan. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yep, great. All right, awesome. He's 17 minutes away. Is that right, Ryan? Yes, sir, that is correct. Everything loud and clear? Hey, Russell. Yeah, you sound good. What I would say is if you just want them until 6, obviously you'll hear them start. But we're good, and you'll be good for executive session, so we'll be able to put you into executive session. Okay, good. Next slide. Yeah, I just – they could have been answered. The other – Thank you. I think there's other – Can you do the end of this one? Absolutely. Hey, buddy. Thank you. Good evening, Kershaw County. It is Tuesday, November 28th. This is our regularly scheduled meeting, second meeting in November, and I call this meeting to order.

» Please stand, and Councilman Danny Cato is going to lead us in the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. Let's pray. Dear Heavenly Father, we just thank you so much for another time that we have together here to do the business of this county. Dear Heavenly Father, we just pray that you would be with us tonight as we make the decisions, Lord, that you would lead, guide, and direct us to make the decisions that you would have us to make. Dear Heavenly Father, we just love you, and we just thank you so much for this season and for what it means to us. We just pray that each and every one here will have a safe and happy holidays. Dear Heavenly Father, just lead, guide, and direct us now throughout this meeting and throughout the rest of the week. For it's in Christ's name we pray. Amen.

» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, one nation, this fall. Thank you, Mr. Cato. All right. Adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion pertaining to tonight's agenda? I would do tonight's agenda. Okay, motion to adopt tonight's agenda as is. I'm second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. Any discussion? Item number 15, personnel matter. I would like to make a motion that we strike that until we have every council member with us. I'm second. Yes, motion to strike number 15. Okay, second by Mr. Shoemake. Any discussion on striking that? Mr. Brazel, can you hear us? Do we have Mr. Tucker also? Okay. All right. All those in favor of striking item 15, executive session, due to not having every single member here, indicate by raising your hand. Okay, Mr. Jones, Mr.

» Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, and Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Brazel. Okay. And any discussion on the arrest of the agenda? Okay. All those in favor of adopting tonight's agenda as amended, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, and Mr. Shoemake. And Mr. Brazel. Mr. Brazel, can you hear us? Okay. Thank you. All right. This is our agenda as amended. All right. I'm going to move things around a little bit so we can get some of our business dealings out of the way. I'm going to move item number five, public comments, to right after item number 11, right before our council briefs. So, with that, we'll move on to approval of minutes for Tuesday, November 14th. Madam Chair, would you give by what authority you're doing that so the public will know? Yes, absolutely.

» Section 2.5, order of business, bravo, adoption of agenda. The order of business on the agenda may be varied if required by the chairperson. Thank you. All right. Minutes for Tuesday, November 14th, 2023. Is there a motion pertaining to these minutes? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson with a motion to approve. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Cato. Any discussion? Any updates? Yes. We abstain. Okay. Mr. Tucker. We abstain. All right. Mr. Tucker's abstaining due to absence. All right. Any others? Okay. All those in favor of approving the Tuesday, November 14th, 2023 county council minutes, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, and Mr. Shoemake, and Mr. Brazel. Thank you. All right.

» Those minutes will go into the record. All right. Item number seven, executive session with economic development. Is there a motion to go into executive session? I'll make that motion. Okay. Mr. Cato makes a motion to go into executive session. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tomlinson. Any discussion? Second. We'll need Mr. Templer, Mr. DeBose, and Mr. Burgess. Okay. All those in favor of entering executive session, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Cato, myself, Mr. Shoemake, and Mr. Brazel first. Mr. Ryan, can we check? It sounds like he's taking a shower. Okay. Let's go to Mr. Tucker. Is that any better? Okay. And Mr. Brazel, yes, to go into executive session? Yes. Okay. All right. We're in executive session. Got it, thank you. I'm good. All right.

» Do we have Mr. Brazel? Yes, ma'am. Loud and clear. All right. Is there a motion to come out of executive session? Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to come out of executive session. Okay. Mr. Tucker with the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cato. Any discussion? Ms. Hanna, for the record, if you'll put that Mr. Tucker arrived at 6.20 p.m. All those in favor of coming out of executive session, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? Okay. Vote is unanimous. We're out of executive session. All right. Moving on to item number eight, discussion. The Camden burial report. Mr. Jones and myself had some questions and some FOIA requests for legal that they took care of. So, Mr. DeBose, I'm going to give the floor to you if you can go over that report.

» Counsel, you should have a timeline of the Camden burials in front of you as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. Members of counsel, within the FOIA documents provided, which were quite voluminous, the late Doug Bostick had generated a timeline within that information. We reviewed that timeline against the included documents, and it is a fair and accurate summary of the events and the communications to some of the council's prior discussion points and the timeline of how these burials and interments occurred at Quaker Cemetery versus the battlefield site. As late as February 24 of 2023, the Army was referencing that it just had to be a dignified burial, and that could be on the battlefield or in a cemetery where the remains would be properly marked and cared for.

» The Army was encouraging the use of the VA cemetery, but no decision had been made. The Army County Administrator, Mr. Templer, supported the plan of action to inter the soldiers at the battlefield. You'll see in the timeline that other officials weighed in, including the Attorney General, and all parties were advocating strongly that the burial occur at the battlefield, as was kind of discussed publicly. I do note in the timeline in late March, the Office of Army Cemeteries certified that the soldiers were Army service members. There's a note in here, which is apparent from the communications, that what had not been communicated to Mr. Bostick or his committee until that point was that once that certification occurred, the U.S.

» Army became next of kin and had sole legal authority over the disposition of the remains of these soldiers. Again, communications occurred after that, advocating for the burial at the battlefield. There were some down to the wire, despite communications with the Office of Army Cemeteries about whether the Army would make kind of a full appearance at that event that did occur. Basically, in May, the Office of Army Cemeteries came around to the fact that Quaker Cemetery might be an appropriate location versus the cemetery at Fort Jackson, but again, that was not even definitively decided until late July, August, when the Army notified the Battlefield Trust that there wouldn't be any ceremony, a non-public event, and the Army apparently informed Mr.

» Bostick, and again, it's referenced in the timeline and conversations, there's no written documentation that the burial steering committee and the board of Quaker Cemetery may attend. That attendance allowance is reflected in Mr. Bostick's notice to the steering committee, where it was reminded that, per the Army instructions, there'd be no ceremony, it would not be a public event, but that the steering committee and Quaker Cemetery board were invited to attend. And again, finally, on August 13, the remains of the soldiers were buried at Quaker Cemetery. As I referenced at the last meeting, some piecing together, I guess, some oral conversations, non-written communications is not possible now, given Mr. Bostick passing away.

» And the communications do make it clear that the notice that the burial would occur was provided by the Army on August 8th for an August 13th burial of these remains. So, kind of a short notice window, there had been, again, conversations that Quaker was probably an appropriate location for this private event. And again, it is not even clear from the record. Again, there's this oral reference on July 31st that the steering committee and Quaker board could attend. But as far as a list of invitees, that's the only reference. And again, it's memorialized in the August 8th letter from Boston. So, again, that's based on the written communications. That's the best that the timeline can be pieced together. I don't buy any of it. Thank you.

» Were there any financial documents? There are financial documents. Again, the county's contribution of $35,000, I don't know, was delineated as separate expenditures to specific items, given that money is kind of non-fungible, or fungible rather. I believe it was placed into the generalized pot of money for funding. There are some handwritten notes. And again, I think, per communications and some of those notes, the money was directed towards the event that occurred at the battlefield. And some of it was perhaps used for the coffin structures that were used. I mean, that was part and parcel of the Cannon Burial Site event. Those were later donated to the Army because they had already been purchased anyway for use of Quaker.

» But, no, I don't know that those funds are ever really specifically broken out, Madam Chair. Okay. Any evidence that any of the $35,000 went towards the private burial? No, again, not to belabor my prior statement, but yes. Ask more directly, Madam Chair, there's no evidence that those funds were specifically used on that private event. Is there evidence that it wasn't? Again, it's money that was put into a larger pot of money from several parties that donated and funded this event. So, I don't know that $1 A was tracked through to expenditure B. Madam Chair, may I have a problem? Yes, Mr. Dines. Here's where I have a problem. You know, just trying to understand this. The project was pretty much coupled with what I think the reinterment with full honors.

» And it was going to be done at the location. They promoted that. They promoted that from the very beginning, that they would be put back where they were. They paraded them out in every street of Camden. They displayed them in one of the historic buildings. And in February, I think they said that's when the Army got involved in a riot or wrong. That's roughly along the timeline. I mean, the Army had been contacted for the U.S. Army World Guard to participate. They were contacted from the very beginning. They were contacted fairly early in the process. They were.

» And, you know, if you go to the website and look at the website, I mean, you can still see where it seems to be, to me, it may be a false scenario to post it on the website as to the burial or the reinterment of these heroes, these soldiers. I just have a tough time the way it was handled. I think we've gotten less answers than we do questions. And for one of our colleagues on this county council to be disrespected because she saw 150, 200 people at a non-public event, how many people serve on the Historic Camden Board? How many people serve on the Battleground Trust Board? Well, it was a heck of a lot more people there than just them. And that's where I have a problem.

» And as a veteran, it upsets me that this went down the way it did, especially the disrespect that our chair got when she was out there. I think it's all political. I'm just, the $35,000 was done. It was given to them. It was prior to a lot of y'all, you folks sitting up here on county council. But I'm just, won't happen again. Lesson learned. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Still haven't gotten any answers as far as I'm concerned. So, November 2019, the final master plan was published. Mr. Templer, Mr. Bowes, do we have a copy of it? I'm not sure we have an entire copy of the final master plan. Again, I don't know if it was specifically within the scope. I can re-review. Because it does seem like the initial plan and what was brief to this body was that this money was to support a public event.

» And then I see April 22nd, attendees were notified that the re-internment will be private. The official public program, I guess, said it would be private. Is that where you had to purchase the ticket? I don't know that there was, and again, it's not apparent that there was a, are you referring to the internment at Quaker? April 22nd, the Camden burial events occur. The funeral service is held. Attendees are notified via the official published program that the re-internment will be private. And again, I think that was direction from the Army, and as much as it became next of kin, there was this avocation that had occurred that came in the battlefield.

» But as of late as April 14, which was eight days before that, the Office of Army Cemeteries had notified the battle trust that they intended to support the event. But the re-internment would not occur until they made a final determination. And between those two dates, apparently they formed Battlefield Trust that the re-internment would be private. Yeah, so that's the communication I think this body missed and Mr. Templer. So from April 22nd to August 13, were you notified that it would be private? Or that anybody up here was invited? No. Okay. So it's still unclear to me when exactly it was made private. It does appear that it was... Politically driven. Well, I mean, it was publicized that it would be public. It is what it is.

» And then once this body helped financially, it kind of went to... It took kind of an elitist turn, but there's nothing we can do about it now. Thank you for this timeline and thank you for the work you did. And I just want the public to know this information and have this timeline available. Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. This has been for some time. Obviously, there are different opinions. It's been different than what's been said up here, but again, I don't want to belabor it. I'm a big fan of the Battleground Trust, and I appreciate the work that they've done. So again, I don't want to belabor the point, but not every opinion up here is necessarily unanimous. So my thought is that I think the Battleground Trust did an overall good job. There may have been some miscommunication.

» That happens in a big event, but I'm happy with the work they did and happy with the work they continue to do and hope we can continue partnering with them in the future. Thank you, Mr. Schumach. Any other discussion points? I agree with that statement. I disagree with that statement. With all due respect, I just absolutely disagree with it. Mr. Templer, anything to add? You know, just, I mean, from my two senses, I felt like the, having had conversations in Zoom, communications with the Army, they were truly entertaining having these individuals reinterred at the battle site, but apparently that was not the Army's practice, so it just took a lot of conversation. It was a high-level JAG officer on the Zoom that I participated in.

» So, and it just felt like, and just purely based on my conjecture, that the Army changed their mind in almost the 11th and a half hour. That's just based on the information that I had, the conversations I've been a part of, and some of these documents. Okay. For what it's worth. So, Mr. Templer, as we move forward as the administrator, if this body approves any funds going to something, we do need to be kept up to date on what the plan is and where the funds are going. Not to say that you didn't do that, just we need to be a little more vigilant when we support things like this to make sure that we are involved and that we also know exactly where the people's money is going to. Everybody, anything else? Okay. We'll move on to item number nine, ordinance. We have four this evening.

» We'll start with Project Tree. This is the second reading for a FELO ordinance for Project Tree, and Exhibit B to the ordinance, the FELO agreement. Is there a motion at this time for a second reading of Project Tree? Yes, Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion. My motion is that we approve Project Tree, the second reading of the project for the FELO ordinance of Project Tree, removing the $2,500 per megawatt fee and authorizing Mr. Jeff Burgess with our Economic Development Department to negotiate with the company on a fee to ensure the best position for Kershaw County, and then come back to us. Okay, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. DeBose, do we need to put the current ordinance on the floor first? As I understood Mr.

» Tomlinson's motion, and maybe perhaps it wasn't explicitly stated, but I believe his motion was, and I'd ask that Mr. Tomlinson confirm this, but that the motion was to approve second reading of the ordinance and attached agreement with the amendment that the specific per megawatt rate be removed from the agreement. Okay, even though an amendment hasn't been made. Just a rules clarification. Yeah, I believe he's making a motion to approve with an amendment built into the motion. Yeah, as an initial matter for council's consideration. That's correct. All right, Mr. Tomlinson, with the motion to approve second reading, removing the per megawatt allocation, authorizing Jeff Burgess, Economic Development Director, to renegotiate that item before third reading? That's correct.

» Could he restate his motion? Yes. Yes. The motion is to approve the second reading of Project Tree, amending the fee load by removing the $2,500 per megawatt fee, and authorizing Mr. Jeff Burgess with Economic Development the authority to negotiate with the company and bring back a rate fee that is best for Kershaw County. I second that. Okay, second by Mr. Jones. Any discussion? Mr. Tomlinson, thank you for the research you've done in all of these ordinances on solar power. Any questions? Mr. Brazel? I still have him. I still have everything and have no issues. Okay, thank you. All right, all those in favor of approving FELO ordinance for Project Tree, amending the FELO by removing the $2,500 per megawatt fee authorizing Jeff Burgess to negotiate this fee, indicate by raising your hand.

» And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? I vote aye. Okay. And this ordinance passes as amended. Next is a second reading, a FELO ordinance for Project White Oak. Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson. My motion is that we approve Project White Oak with amended as follows to the FELO agreement by removing the $2,500 megawatt per megawatt hour fee and authorizing Mr. Burgess of the Economic Development Department to negotiate with the company and bring back the best fee in support of Croshaw County. All right, thank you. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Jones. Any discussion on this one? Mr. Burgess, could you come up here, please? If there's any differences in these projects, can you point those out for us? We're on White Oak.

» White Oak is a 75 megawatt producer, whereas Project Tree would be an 80 megawatt. Okay. That's the only difference. Okay. All right. Any other discussion items, questions? All right. All those in favor of approving the FELO ordinance for Project White Oak, second reading, as amended by removing $2,500 megawatt fee and authorizing Jeff Burgess to further negotiate that fee, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? Okay. All right. The vote is unanimous. That passes second reading. Moving on to item number C, item C, Project Sandy, FELO ordinance for Project Sandy. Any differences in this one, Mr. Burgess? 80 megawatt project. 80 megawatt project. Okay. Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson.

» My motion is that we approve the first reading of Project Sandy with the following amendment to the FELO and the ordinance agreement, that we remove the 2,500 megawatt per megawatt hour fee and authorize Mr. Jeff Burgess of the Economic Development Department to negotiate on behalf of the county with the company to bring back the best available fee for Kershaw County. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Jones. Any discussion on this one or questions for Mr. Burgess? This is the first reading for Project Sandy. Mr. Brazel, do you have anything? No, ma'am. Okay.

» All those in favor of approving the first reading of the FELO ordinance for Project Sandy as amended by removing $2,500 megawatt fee and authorizing Jeff Burgess to further negotiate that fee, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? I vote aye. Okay. All right. That vote is unanimous. It passes first reading. All right. Last ordinance. Thank you, Mr. Burgess. Yep. This is the second reading for the Bethune Property Conveyance Ordinance, an ordinance authorizing Kershaw County to convey county-owned real property located at 2843 Mecklenburg Road, 325 Brown Street, and 2863 Mecklenburg Road to the town of Bethune for public purposes.

» The property to be conveyed consists of the property to be conveyed consists of a total of 17.18 acres, more or less, and is further identified on the Kershaw County tax maps as parcel numbers Bravo 141-000047. This is the second reading. This is the second reading. Is there a motion at this time pertaining to this conveyance? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that we approve this ordinance conveyance of the 17.18 acres on Mecklenburg Road to the town of Bethune. Okay. Mr. Cato with the motion. Is there a second? I would second. Okay. Second by Mr. Shoemake. Any discussion? Madam Chair, I don't want to delay this evening because I'm really ready to go home. But as we go through these- Say again? Just got here. Yeah, but I ain't just got up.

» I would like to identify these properties as we go through because I've been trying to figure it out on my sheet here and I'm struggling a little bit. All right. And in the packet, there's Exhibit 1? Correct. And that's off of Norwood Street. So, Councilman Cato, can you remind me where this is? I mean, I read and I know the location, but my brain's not clicking on the geographical areas. This property joins the property that was given to the town of Bethune by the school district. It's where the old high school building stands. Part of this property actually comes across part of the walking track behind the school, and it comes all the way back out towards Norwood. There used to be some old tennis courts. I'm familiar with your locker rooms.

» So, this property would actually go behind the tennis courts, behind the locker room, and cut straight back across to Mecklenburg, which would leave the county approximately somewhere close to the neighborhood of nine acres in the corner section of Mecklenburg and Norwood. Okay. So, we're not giving all the land to the town of Bethune, just mainly the recreational part that they requested. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Johnson. And also, a fine note, and I want to make sure we've got it sealed here in open session, is that we don't maintain that once Bethune gets it. That's correct. And that's good for our rec department, because they've got more than they can handle as it is. Madam Chair, just so the record. We also have a, oh, sorry. Sorry, go ahead.

» So, we also have an amendment for the second reading that I can go ahead and read. Okay. At this time, I propose that we make the following amendment to the second reading of the conveyance ordinance. On page one, adding in blue underline, whereas the town of Bethune has requested a right of first refusal to the 7.19 acre, more or less, portion of the real property, which Kershaw County will retain for potential future use. And Kershaw County believes a right of first refusal is appropriate for the town of Bethune. And that the town of Bethune is required to pay $1 more than any bona fide purchase offer received by Kershaw County for the retained acreage.

» Moving to page two, adding Exhibit 3 and Exhibit 4 in Section 1, Bravo, and adding Charlie, the chair of Kershaw County counsel to make, execute, and deliver a deed conveying the real property described herein to the town of Bethune in substantially the same form as the right of the first refusal attached to Exhibit 5 to this ordinance and to sign all required documents and do all things necessary and incidental to the completion of this conveyance to said real property. That's in form of your amendment. Yes. I second. Thank you, Mr. Dent. Seconds? Any discussion on the additions? Mr. DeBose? So, yeah, just so the record's clear, Madam Chair, the retained acreage that Mr. Cato referenced earlier is that 7.19 coming out of the nine-acre tract.

» The town of Bethune is being, out of that tract, a 1.9-acre portion is being conveyed as reflected on the plat that's included as Exhibit 1. The added exhibits are the specific deeds for each of these tax map parcels, and in discussing the matter with Town of Bethune's attorney and the administrator, Town of Bethune requested that right of first refusal for the retained acreage at their requested terms of dollar and any bona fide purchase offer.

» I will note for the record as well that within the deeds of conveyance, there's a reversion clause stating that the property must be used for public purposes and that the definition of public purposes in that deed does not include the town of Bethune selling it to some third party for development and then using those funds for public purposes, that the land actually be available to citizens for real public use, not monetized to a developing entity. So, Madam Chair, so if that takes place, what's the clawback? Do we get the land back due to default, or how does that work, Mr. Boaz? The reversion clause would be exercised by Kershaw County. It's a term of the conveyance, and the parties agree to it by virtue of Town of Bethune recording that deed.

» Typically, what you see in the exercise of a reversion clause is that the grantee entity will execute a quick claim back to the grantor entity or some similar form of conveyance. Given this, given this is going to be conveyed, I believe, by a limited warranty deed, a limited warranty deed will come back. Because I can tell you, I support Danny on all of this, but I do not want to see this land ever not used for public purposes. Correct. That's what was said. Yeah, the amendment just adds, Mr. Cato, as you stated at the last meeting, the land that we're going to keep, it's going to give them the first right of refusal to purchase it. Madam Chair, if I may, to me, this is a win-win. Thank you, Danny. A win-win for all of us.

» Bethune gets their project that they want badly, and they'll do well with it, and we don't have to maintain it anymore. Win-win. All right, any more questions for Mr. DeBose? Comments? Okay. Mr. Braswell, any questions or comments? No, ma'am. Sorry. None at this time. Thank you. Okay. No problem. All right, all those in favor of amendment to the second reading of the Bethune Property Conveyance Ordinance, which is indicated by the underlying blue writing on page one and two. Indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Braswell, how do you vote? I'll vote aye. Okay. Amendment is unanimous. And all those in favor of approving the Property Conveyance Ordinance as amended indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Braswell, how do you vote? I'll vote aye. Okay. All right, that passes second reading.

» That will be on the December 12th agenda. All right, moving on to resolutions. One resolution tonight. Inducement resolution for Project Sandy. Inducement resolution provided for negotiation of a fee in lieu of tax agreement between Kershaw County and a company identified for the time being as Project Sandy, identification of the project, and other related matters. Is there a motion pertaining to this resolution at this time? I'll make a motion we approve the resolution. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson makes a motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Second by Mr. Shoemake. And any discussion? And just for clarification, this resolution is strictly saying what we've already voted on the first reading for, just saying that we would be willing to do a fee-in-lieu agreement with the company.

» Correct. The resolution is non-binding, does not have any specific terms. It's just a statement of intent to theoretically enter into a fee-in-lieu with the company. Thank you, Mr. DeBose. All right. All those in favor of the inducement resolution for Project Sandy, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? I vote I. Okay. Resolution is passed unanimously. All right. Number 11, appointments. First appointment tonight, the Planning Commission. We have one vacancy. Madam Chair, I would like to nominate a candidate for the Planning Commission. Okay. Remind me, do I need to just do that by way of motion? Okay. So I would move to nominate Cliff Emmons to the Planning Commission, and I can explain why if I get a second. Okay. Second. Mr. Jones with a second.

» And discussion, Mr. Shoemake. Sure. So the sole District 3 member of the Planning Commission has resigned, which means there is no person from District 3 on the Planning Commission. District 3 covers almost all of Elgin and a small portion of Blue Golf Town Highway 12. Mr. Emmons is a lifelong resident of Elgin. He's been involved in the community for, you know, longer than, about as long as I've been alive. And he also works in an industry, in a construction-related industry. So he has a unique understanding of both the benefits, but also, more importantly, the problems with explosive residential growth.

» So I think he'd be a unique person to offer a very unique perspective from the Elgin-Westwattery area on this, what I think is going to become in the next couple of years, a very, very critical commission for us. Awesome. Thank you. Any other comments or questions? Yes, ma'am. Yes. Madam Chair. I just want to say thank you for this candidate, dear Mr. Shoemake, because my concern with our Planning Commission right now is that we're heavy on the development real estate side, and that's what you don't want, is to have it lopsided where people are not thinking wholeheartedly and with an open mind. So thank you for this appointment. Yeah, I agree. And thank you for the geographic diversity as well.

» You identified that up front, that we needed some more people from the Westwattery area on some of the boards. And I'm going to mention only District 6 will be without a member. And so I've already mentioned to Danny, obviously, you know, it's a council decision, but I personally am going to support, at the next opening, someone from District 6. Absolutely. Thank you. All right. All those in favor of Mr. Clifton-Emmons, indicate by appointed to the Planning and Zoning Commission, indicate by raising your hand. And Mr. Brazel, how do you vote? I'll vote aye. All right. Congratulations, Mr. Emmons. You are appointed to the Planning and Zoning Commission, and thank you for your willingness to serve. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Jones. Quick question. Comment.

» You know, I really appreciate the way we're doing business here on this, because not so long ago we had one member of this county council bringing every candidate for every position, bam, bam, bam, one after another. We knew nothing about it. Y'all have been very transparent about it. You're trying to get people from every area. And Mr. Tucker knows exactly what I'm talking about. He fought the battle, too, as well, to get diversity and get fair representation throughout these commissions, especially this Planning and Zoning Commission, which I feel very sure we're going to get a heck of a lot more involved in within the next few months coming up, along with budget and other stuff. But I did want to point that out. I like y'all's attitude on this. Job well done. Thank you, Mr. Jones.

» All right. Next appointment. The Assessment Appeals Board. We have three vacancies. I don't see any. I guess we don't have any applicants right now. I don't see any. No. Does anyone have an applicant in mind or a nomination from the floor? Okay. Mr. Brazel, do you have any nominations? I don't have any. Okay. All right. So we'll keep that on the agenda. If you're interested in being on the Assessment Appeals Board, please apply at the Kershaw County website. There's only three on the board. There's three vacancies. It says you're over. No, but Hannah can look that up for us. Thank you. All right. Next appointment. The Clean Community Appointment. We have one vacancy. This vacancy is an appointment from the City of Camden, as we have representation from each municipality.

» Is there a nomination? I have a question, Madam Chair. Yes. Ms. Hannah, have you heard anything from them? Crickets. Okay. All right. And at the last meeting, I knew you were not here, but I spoke, one of the things you and I had spoken about is an ordinance that would put a clock on the city or these municipal appointments. Mr. DuBose mentioned, and I agree, that it has to probably be done by way of an ordinance since it's technically amending. So I don't know if December's the right time to do that, given that we're wrapping up the year. But I think at a minimum in January, we should be... Thank you for the first year.

» For what it's worth, I believe, and again, I've not looked at it in a while, that the Clean Community Commission already has a 90-day kind of shot clock structure built into it. And also, for what it's worth, I believe this vacancy has been open for far longer than 90 days. So as it pertains to this specific commission, I believe that structure's already in place. But to your point, Mr. Shoemake, I recall those conversations, and I believe that's something we could generate for council's consideration at later meetings. If I may, if I could take the liberty to get with Mr. DuBose, because this is not the only board of commission that I want to look at, because these are the things that we're trying to prevent, I'm happy. And if it's ready by a December meeting, cool.

» If it's not, then it'll be the first of the year, because you're going to have to read it three times anyway. So if y'all just give me the liberty and let me do some due diligence, I'd be happy to bring something back forward. And also, we have a couple of the commission members out here tonight, and I appreciate the job they're doing. I mean, that's a working commission. So do we want to put a, do we want to move that vacancy to countywide? Do we want to start the 90-day clock at a certain time? It's been on the agenda twice now, so. The clock, how do we start? Yes. Do we want to? I have not, to be fair and honest, I've not spoken with the mayor in reference this, and I would like to have an opportunity to do so, please. All right.

» We'll keep that appointment on the agenda under appointments and get clarification from the city of Camden. All right. Thank you, Mr. Tucker, for heading that up. All right. Next item is going to be public comments. We rearranged the agenda. All right. Thank you, Mr. DuBose. All right. We have one person signed up for public comments tonight, Mr. Tom Webb III. Hi, Tom. It seems like last time I spoke, I was tired. I didn't speak very loud. I was kind of slumped over. And somebody from council or somebody out there watching called my home to inquire about my health. And I much appreciate it, whoever was involved in that. So it was very nice. But I'm trying to get over shingles. I'm still having a problem. My side of my face is sensitive to the touch and my eyes a little bit of a problem.

» But I wanted to speak about the solar farms. I think we're being misled. It's okay to have some solar input to the grid. But eventually, it looks like we're going to have so much solar input that we will be dependent on it, dependent on something that's very undependable. And so you could get an idea of what it would be like in a third world country. It's just when it's cloudy next time, go over and turn your switch off. Switch it off at the input where the wires come into your house. Switch it off for however long it's cloudy. That's what you're going to be facing with these solar farms. And then I wanted to say something about World War III. We've been really close to perhaps World War III. We're in trouble. There's been so much immigration.

» There are estimates that run as high as 30 million. And I've heard something about a 40,000-acre compound out west that will house a place for these people, these immigrants, these people to come in. And they will be ruled by the drug lords somewhat. But it could be as much as a million-man army or a two-million-man army. If we get into World War III, we will have an enemy right within our own borders. They could spill out, attack the electric grid, the railroads, the bridges. I think we're in terrible trouble. We really are. There's nothing like this has ever happened before. So if we get into World War III, it won't be like it was in World War II, sending troops somewhere else. There's going to be war right here.

» So I get my news from Glenn Beck radio program, others, and Shortwave, and John Burt Society's New American magazine. I don't know where you get your news, but there's plenty to worry about. And the housing developments that are coming. So many people. And how are we going to feed them if things go bad? And if we get into a world war and the grid goes down, the big transformers, these substations are very vulnerable. And bridges and the railroads, there's been some derailings, just perhaps practice derailings. There could be just no end to it. How are you going to feed all of these people that are coming in? I keep harping on this, but even a clock, a broke clock is right twice a deer. So I hope I'm wrong, but I just see gloom and despair. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Webb.

» Mike, that concludes public comments for this evening. Moving on to council briefs. Mr. Shoemake, can you start tonight, please? Sure. Mr. Webb, it's always a pleasure to hear from you. I'm glad you're feeling better. And thank you. I know you're one of our Clean Community Commission members that are here. So thank you for your work there. Well, a couple of quick things. I'll be fairly brief. This Thursday is the Elgin Tree Lighting at 6 o'clock. They're at Potter Community Park. So I encourage you all to come to that. It's always a cool little event. And then, of course, this Saturday is the Elgin Catfish Stomp Parade and Festival. So they're calling for a little bit of rain, but hopefully it'll hold off.

» We've still got a few days until we can put that, know exactly what the weather's going to do. I wanted to briefly, and that's really all I have, but I did want to briefly, I've gotten a few phone calls over the last few days about this Camden annexation issue. Obviously, it's not a county issue, but the city of Camden is taking up whether to annex this, what is about 230 acres, plus another 90 that's already in the city. And I'm not here to take a position on that specifically, but the calls that I got were from people who had been told that if the property stayed in the county, they would be able to pack it in with homes because of our ordinances. And I just want to make it clear to anybody that's listening to this that we did amend our ordinances.

» So the numbers that people were pushing out there were from our old ordinance. That would have allowed, that's our six over there, which would have allowed a dwelling unit every 0.13 acres. Because that area doesn't have sewer based on our new amendments, the minimum lot size would be half an acre if that were, in fact, a county property. And again, I know that I've spoken to Councilman Cato and Councilman Tomlinson about this, and I know at least the three of us, because in these meetings publicly, Councilman Cato and Tomlinson have expressed some reservations about that Camden Training Center being turned into a major development. I certainly join them in those concerns.

» So to the extent the rumors being put out there that if this property is not annexed, the council will somehow make some big development, I just wanted to put that to bed and say that's not something I've heard anyone on this body express any support for. Again, not the city's free to do what the city does. I just wanted to make that clear because I'd already gotten a few phone calls. And that's all that I have. Thank you, Mr. Cato. Got a few things this evening. First of all, yesterday we was fortunate enough to go out to Cassett. We had the new Cassett Fire Department dedication yesterday, and we had a great crowd out there. That is a beautiful facility, and it should be up and running with full-time firemen here in the next week or so.

» And I just thank everybody that was involved in that. I really appreciate it, and it really looks good out there. This Saturday at Mount Pisgah Resource Center, they will have a mural dedication. Kershaw, or the leadership, Kershaw County will be involved with that, and we certainly appreciate that. So I invite you all to come out there at 12 o'clock. They'll also have some crafts and foods and different stuff going on there. Bethune will also have a holiday market on the 2nd. A lot going on this Saturday in Kershaw County, so nobody could complain that they don't have anything to do because there's plenty going on. So this Saturday, also in Bethune, they have a holiday market. The 16th, Woodward Field Airport is going to have a special visitor fly in.

» I believe Santa Claus may be making a special appearance around 11 to 1. And lastly, I just want to wish the Camden Bulldog football team good luck this Saturday. They're headed out to the state championship, and we're rooting them on. So go Dawgs. You want to hear me say that? I'm proud of you, Danny. I'm proud of you. So go Dawgs. Thank you all. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I enjoyed quality time with family and friends, and I think I gained quite a few pounds. I'm going to have to get with the rest of council. We might have to start working out a little bit. I would like to piggyback a little bit off of what Councilman Shoemake talked about.

» I too, with it being right there from my district, the Camden Training Center annexation. I've gotten plenty and plenty of phone calls recently and been involved in a lot of conversations and planning meetings. You know, and the conversation of annexing is one, but the main point of this is 800 homes, the density of 800 homes being right here. You know, that's, however, 2,200 people. That's going to be a strain on our schools, our infrastructure, our emergency responders. You know, and now the, I think the lack of information, and specifically at the planning and zoning meeting, you know, with the city administrator and some of the others, just I don't think they were up to date, as Councilman Shoemake mentioned. But, you know, maybe we can send them if, you know, Mr.

» Templer, if you wouldn't mind maybe putting together a brief about our new zoning ordinance for R6. Because I think, you know, I've heard that the city says the county wouldn't be able to manage the project, and they were worried about that, which is one reason they were going to annex. We have worked very hard, specifically Councilman Shoemake and staff, to really redo our ordinances, to put us in a situation where we're not going to be Lexington County. And I think we are qualified to be able to handle it. But if you wouldn't mind doing that, that would be very helpful, and I really appreciate it. But I would just like to say that, you know, as far as the annexation, you know, we have no say over that. But I am absolutely opposed to 800 homes and the straddle and infrastructure.

» We're not ready for that right now. A different, you know, different time, different place, but that is not what we need. And also, go Bulldogs. Good luck in the state championship. Thank you all. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Jones. Yeah, I have a few things. I just want to comment on, I'll start with Mr. Tom Webb. You know, when he gets here and speaks about his military experience, this man is a combat veteran. We thank you for your service, sir. And he may say some things sometimes that we don't understand, but I think he's thinking ahead of us. I really do. And I know when I approached him about serving on the Clean Community Commission some years back, he looked at me like I was crazy. But he jumped in there, and I want to say this to you, Mr. Webb.

» Some of your colleagues have actually complimented and bragged on you for your work with them on the Clean Community Commission. And I appreciate that. I really do, as well as thank you for your service. And I'm very humbled to have you come up here and speak when you talk about your military background. Anyway, getting off all that, also, I would like to say that I got a very nice letter from Lauren L. Cook for the organizers and celebration for Larry Dovey. You know, the Larry Dovey, it says the Lawrence Eugene, Larry Dovey, 100th birthday observance is going to be Saturday, December 16th in 2023. Self-guided tour of Larry Dovey exhibit, 10 a.m. to 1 p.m., African American Cultural Center, 517 York Street, Camden. Information and the receptions from 1 to 4.

» You know, I stood with Larry Dovey's field, and I always will. I think we're very blessed to have people come up from our community like Larry Dovey and Brooke Benton, which we're working on something for Brooke Benton. And I appreciate this council's patience and interest in these things because these are important parts of our history that we definitely don't need to forget. And let me say something else, too. This coming Saturday evening, doors open at 6 p.m., music starts at 7 p.m., 1037 Galleria. And it's going to be, it's a sponsor, it's toys for, music for toys. They're going to have a program there with multiple talents within Kershaw County performing. And we ask if you come out, just bring a toy and put it in the box for some child this coming up Christmas.

» And I think they've got some really solid, solid, wonderful entertainers that are going to be there. So anyway. And also, I had some comments I was going to make, but I had spoken with some members of your colleague, Mr. Tucker, and Madam Chair. I had some comments about the 521 study and, you know, I-20 that's coming up. I understand, of course, that study has not been, it's not going on at this point in time. No. So, therefore, it will be coming up maybe after the first year. Of course, you never know, but it could be, could not be. It's just a penny. And I had some comments I was going to make about it on my opinion and where I stand.

» But after talking to one of y'all's colleagues, I've decided to wait and see because I have been promised, and I say this to you and Madam Chair, I get the commitment, the public will be involved in this study. Absolutely. It goes forth, and I knew that would be your answer, and I knew that would be the way you felt. But I think sometimes people may not understand that. So I look forward to that, and I would, and I know good and well that you and Madam Chair and whoever sits on, of course, kind of will keep us informed as to what's going on. And I'll say, so having said that, I'm going to save my comments to, one, that it's happening, and, two, that I know what I'm addressing because I don't think any of us know.

» But I liked what I heard today when I spoke to one of y'all's colleagues who said the public, the neighbors out there will absolutely be involved, and DOT takes that very seriously. All right, that was, I think, and two on these solar farms. I just want to say, Jeff Burgess, thank you for your work, and Mr. Webb, thank you for your comments on that. And also, Brant Thompson, your experience and your knowledge in this, you've been involved in a lot of them. I appreciate your involvement because that kind of steered us in the direction that we're going here at this moment and could be much more beneficial for Kershaw County, especially to be treated fair. Having said that, that concludes my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Brazel. He did? Okay. Do you know what time? Mr.

» Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. I won't keep you very long. I want to just say a couple things. I wasn't going to actually talk about 521 study. But just to reiterate what you probably was already told, Mr. Jones, that study should come up sometime the first of the year. We have not discussed that as a cog as a whole yet, so I don't have a lot of information. But as I've spoken to an old phone call back to Ms. Martha in reference to 521 study, I would definitely, myself, Madam Chair, and all the board members that sit here, I think you have about nine here in Kershaw County from various parts of the county, will keep you informed on that process. I can tell you that I'm very eager for the study to happen because the study would tell us a lot of things that we need to know.

» And I think without the study, you could not make a good form decision on anything. And I've shared that with Ms. Martha as well. So with that, as soon as I know more, we will share more. And I'm happy to have any sidebars or conversations with folks or groups that we need to have those conversations with. Myself and Madam Chair, I had the opportunity last week before Thanksgiving to travel to a conference with the cog. I think we had overall 320 attendees. And it went well. A lot of good information down there. We're not going to be as bad financially strapped as we thought we were. There's some programs there in the infrastructure that's coming down from Washington, D.C. so we can do some projects and do some things.

» We just can't jump on these mega projects anymore that cost millions and millions of dollars like when we did our bypass here in Camden. And we're struggling now to figure out a way to pay for the Bishopville truck bypass, which is now have increased to almost 60-something million dollars, which will virtually bankrupt the cog if we have to pay for that. So I could talk more about that at the beginning of the year, but conference was good. Ms. Tuck, who is at the conference? As far as from our... And the meeting, the cog, and the meeting, the conference? Ms. Glenn. South Carolina. South Carolina, yes. So it's all 10 cogs. That's great. Yeah, so you've got Appalachian. We had good representation. We do. We always do. Madam Chair was there. Absolutely. You were there.

» We had at least 10 people there. It was actually 13 attendees from our cog, which is pretty good. Of a board of 29, we'll take that. Some people usually only have about three or four or five people show up. So, and they did all attend class because I was looking around and I saw them. So they didn't just go to go shopping. So we'll appreciate that. Anything I'm leaving out, Madam Chair, on that? Or you want to cover anything I left out? So I took some notes from the DOT representative that was there. There's $660 billion available in grants for roadways, sidewalks, revitalization, anything to do with a road or safety measures. And that kind of leads me into something I wrote in all caps, need a grant writer.

» Next budget cycle, I definitely want council to discuss that because I sent it to Mr. Blanchard, Mr. Templer, like, hey, here's some grants that we can apply for. They have a lot on their plate. So that was really awesome, hearing from DOT at the federal level on what's available because we have some other options for some of our roadways. You know, I always got Highway 1 in the back of my mind. Well, and my point, without meaning to interrupt, it just made me feel good to know we had so much representation with the Chair being there and with you, Mr. Tucker, being there and with some other of our business folks within this county. Yes, sir. So I want to say to you, Mr. Webb, my prayers are with you. I have an aunt who has had shingles. There's nothing fun or easy about it.

» And it doesn't cure overnight. It takes time, even with the medication and stuff that you're having to take if you're taking any. So just continue to get well and heal and may God continue to bless you. The last thing I want to say that, because I don't think, do we meet again before Christmas? Yeah, wait a minute. We do, December 12th. Okay. All right, great. Well, have a safe week, what's the remainder of it. And I hope everybody had a happy Thanksgiving. I thank all of y'all for your tolerance over me over the last couple of weeks. My work schedule has been real crazy, and my parents are not doing very well. So I am torn between work and trying to be a good son. So if I'm not easily available, those are my reasons. But I will get in touch with you and do the best that I can. Thank you.

» Thank you, Mr. Tucker. One last thing about the COG conference. The title of the conference was Reimagining Communities. So we heard from a lot of people who have done outside-the-box things in their county or their municipalities. And I have a list of ideas that we could bring here. And we made some really good contacts as well. So I'm really glad that we were a part of that and we were able to go. I was honored to attend the ring ceremony at Camden Military Academy last week. And they are doing amazing things over there. And I think sometimes they just kind of fly under the radar, no pun intended. They're next to the airport. But the young men that go to the school are outstanding, and the leadership there is as well.

» So I would ask this council, anytime that we can support them, that we do as much as possible. They don't come and ask for anything. But they're still doing amazing things every day. I was very impressed. Mr. Jones, you brought up 521, so the COG hasn't officially taken it up. But I have been reaching out to citizens that live around 521 or headed into Sumter just to get their feedback. So that's already happening, whether it's through a formal study or not. I've definitely been reaching out to people who travel on that road a lot, especially asking for their feedback. So if there is anyone that has specific questions or wants to meet about that, please give me a call. Absolutely. We have a couple members of our airport commission here, Mike Browski and Paul Curtis.

» Thank you for coming to tonight's meeting. I have to give you guys a shout-out because you're doing amazing things out at the airport. The guy that works out there, Mr. Dale, he's also amazing. I'm really proud of you guys, and so I can't wait to see what you're doing. Food for Thought air show, Kershaw County air show. But I know you guys are working really hard, so thank you. All right. So I really liked having public comments right before council briefs because we can address the people that spoke. So, Mr. Webb, I'm so sorry to hear about your shingles, and so I'm glad you're feeling better. And thank you. I see you on 97 all the time picking up trash and litter, so thank you.

» We are going to, as a council, be tightening up on our rules for public comments and order and decorum in general at the meeting. I think we already do a good job of it, but the first step in that is educating the public. So we have a limited public forum. It is not open. It's an agenda item. It's part of our meeting. We don't have to allow public comments at all. I don't anticipate this council changing that. I wouldn't support that. But we don't have to do it. There's many counties that do not have public comments as part of their meetings. I've been the biggest advocate for free speech and opening up public comments with wider limitations or less limitations, but I do feel like sometimes that is abused. It's not a constitutional right to be involved in this meeting.

» You do have to follow our rules. All citizens are expected to be respectful and follow our rules. And if this body allows public comments to take place, there is certainly no right to be disruptive. So moving forward, if citizens are disruptive during the public comment portion of our meeting, they will be asked to leave. If they do not leave and they continue to be disruptive, this body will leave and we'll close the meeting. We're just, we have business to do. We have very serious topics to discuss and business to take care of. And we want to hear from the public. I think every member sitting up here enjoys public comments and loves to hear from citizens. We just have to keep order in this room. So I just wanted to put that out there. And hang on real quick.

» Ryan, do you have the slide for the, okay. Mr. Cato mentioned it. So Santa is flying into Kershaw County on Saturday, December 16th. So please don't, don't miss that. Eli Gwynn will certainly be there. And thank you guys again. And thank you to this council for all your hard work on tonight's agenda's items. Right. Mr. Templer. No reform. Okay. Mr. DeBose. No reform, I'm sure. Okay. So we amended the agenda, Mr. Tucker, in the beginning to remove the executive session for personnel matter because we didn't have Mr. Braswell with us. Okay. So I still think it's important that everyone is there. So, um, okay. Well, Madam Chair, most to adjourn. Most to adjourn by Mr. Tucker. Is there a second? Mr. Cato seconds. All those in favor of adjourning this meeting indicate by raising your hand.

» Okay. The vote is unanimous. This meeting is adjourned. I'll see you guys on December 12th. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's go. Okay. Now, let's go. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.