Full meeting transcript - August 8, 2023

» Good evening, Kershaw County, citizens that are here in the audience and online. This is the regularly scheduled county council meeting, the first one in August, August 8, 2023, and I call this meeting to order. We're going to start tonight with a prayer. Mr. Tucker, would you mind praying us into this meeting, please? No, I don't mind at all, Madam Chair. Let us stand, please. You don't have to excuse me. I think I put mint in my mouth too early. Let us bow our heads and open our hearts. Lord, Father, God Almighty, we come to tell you today, thank you. Thank you for this week. Thank you for the rainstorms and all the natural things that rain brings us here on this earth that you allow us to have.

» We thank you for the ones that are healing in this land and ask that you continue to watch over each and every sick person, elderly person, young person, and all of us up here on this diet and the audience. Lord, Father, continue to bless our minds and our hearts. And let us be able to discuss and have deliberation on the people's business without being any malice or hate or dissent, Lord Father. We now thank you again for our men and women in the military who are saving all our lives and keeping our freedoms and liberties. Lord Father, we give you praise, honor, and glory. And we say all this in your son Jesus' name. Amen.

» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. And I think I see Pastor White in the audience. Can you come to the podium, please? Thank you for being here tonight. So I do want to give the floor to Councilman Shoemake, who's going to brag on you a little bit in the Blanketing Families efforts that you did in the community. Okay. Thank you. You know, I had a chance to go a few weeks ago to the school supply giveaway that Father South's Ministries helped put together with Blanketing Families and the other charities. And I just wanted to say that, you know, and this isn't the first thing I've been to that I've seen your group at.

» And for those of you who live in Elgin, there's, you know, food giveaways at the town hall. There's the school supply giveaway and a number of other charitable activities. And what the pastor's ministry has done, has done a really great job of taking those faith-based organizations and other nonprofits in Elgin and the area and bring them together to do some of these events. I mean, that school supply giveaway, if you guys know how Potter's Park is, I mean, the line was from where the flags are all the way back down to where the houses are and pretty much stayed that way the whole time. A hundred degree heat. These guys are out there sweating it off and bringing people water and things like that.

» So I wanted to come so I could just say thank you on behalf of the county, because, I mean, there's a lot of kids starting school this week with those backpacks you provided. And guys, it wasn't just backpacks. They had school supplies, obviously, the run-of-the-mill stuff, pencils, paper, backpacks. One of the charities brought shoes for the little ones. So, you know, they could go and get free shoes because anybody who has kids and how fast they grow out of shoes. So really anything, I mean, you could have come with nothing and left with enough for a family of four to start school. So it was just an amazing effort. It was one of the more awe-inspiring things I've seen. So I just wanted to say thank you. And hopefully we can have you come back and do the blessing.

» But I did want to just say thank you while you were here. Thank you. And I apologize. No, no problem. I got my route twisted. Pastor Wade, are you from Elgin? I live in the Northeast, but I pastor in Elgin. Okay. And you drove here from the Northeast? Yes, ma'am. Well, will you please offer a prayer for our community for coming in? Can we just bow our heads for a word of prayer? Thank you. Lord, you tell us that we're not supposed to just pray on leadership. We're supposed to pray for our leadership. And God, I thank you tonight that I have an opportunity to stand before this wonderful group of people who are trusting you and believing you and doing work for you inside of this county. Lord, I pray for our county. I pray for all of those in authority.

» I pray that you will guide them in all that they do. In the Proverbs, you tell us this. You say that when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice. Raise up men and women who are righteous, not religious. Tear down walls of unrighteous division and raise up unity under the banner of truth. Bless our local leaders, our local community, and all those that serve here. Find resources, God, and also all types of financial, personnel, infrastructure, and more that we need to help run our county properly. Remove the curse of any wrongdoings of the past so that we would have a clean slate to go forward. And thank you, Lord, for wisdom, boldness, discernment, and courage as this body makes decision for the people of Kershaw County. In Jesus' name, amen. Thank you, Pastor White. Wow.

» And what church are you from? Father's House Ministries International. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, and thank you for praying for our community. Yes, ma'am. Let us know what we can do to help you. Awesome. Thank you, guys. Thank you, sir. I've got to run to another meeting. Okay. Bless you, guys. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. All right. Before we get started into the agenda, I just want to let the public know that, and the record to show that our vice chairman, Councilman Jimmy Jones, he is at Carnegie Mellon with his son, Taylor. So he will be absent tonight, not calling in. And while we're on that topic, I want to say congratulations to Taylor Jones. He is a brilliant musician, and we wish him all the best of luck up there in Pittsburgh.

» The weather is not as nice as South Carolina, though. All right. Up to item number four, adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion to adopt this agenda? Make a motion we adopt this agenda, Madam Chair. Okay. Mr. Tucker makes the motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Mr. Cato with a second. Any discussion, amendments, or anything that we need to change on it? Good. All right. And the vote is unanimous. This is tonight's agenda. Moving right into public comments. Thank you, Tom. All right. We have one citizen signed up for public comments tonight, Mr. Tom Webb III. Hi, Tom. Hey, Tom. So glad that we have Christians still committed to Christianity. But once in a while, something slips by that we might need to go back and revisit.

» In 2017, county council passed an ordinance to restrain the soliciting of funds from motorists, and they went wacko too far on it. Cushel County, through the county council, is authorized to issue a permit to rescue squad, volunteer fire department, or charitable or elementary organizations, and that includes churches. If you want to solicit funds for whatever, padding your pews, doing repairs on your church, or a mission, you can't solicit from your own property out in the boondocks and the unincorporated areas of Cushel County. It is against the regulation that was passed in 2017. A church can't put a sign on its own property saying, please give money. We're sending somebody to wherever as a missionary. So I wish that county council would go back and revisit that.

» I have the ordinance here. No organization may be issued more than one permit in any calendar year. Each permit shall be valid for no longer than one day. One day, and it's not on any holidays, including Saturdays and Sundays. Church can't ask for money on Saturdays and Sundays out on the street. Anywhere you can put a sign on church property that can be seen from the street is against the law. An organization must have the permit present at the date and time and the location with anybody involved in that actually holding a copy of the permit. Does that sound like America to you? It does not to me, and I wish that our modern Kershaw County Council would go back and either do away with this or amend it, and certainly need to protect the churches. The First Amendment.

» Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. And it goes on about abridging the freedom of speech, the press, and the right to peaceably assemble. Congress can't do these things, so county council can. They can abridge the rights of a church to ask for money from their own property. I talked to Ken DuBose way back then. And I opposed it at the time, 2017, said, in his opinion, it could be taken to mean anywhere on church property that a sign can be seen from the road. You cannot ask for any kind of donations. Not American. So that brings me to a little something else. The liberty tree in the Constitution, I spoke about the Constitution. Bill of Rights got the Constitution passed.

» Without the Bill of Rights, there are states that would not have signed on to the Constitution. We wouldn't have it. It's very important. Jefferson spoke about a tree, the liberty tree, as something that we could shelter under, but we needed to look out and tend to it and take care of its roots. This is my rendition of the liberty tree, Jefferson's liberty tree. It's not a mushroom cloud. See, it's not a mushroom cloud. It's a tree. It has roots. So even though this is August, the month when Hiroshima and Nagasaki had big mushroom clouds put an end to a dreadful war, that is a tree. And it looks a little bit like our South Carolina symbol, the palmetto tree. I don't know if there's any connection or not.

» But Jefferson said way back, the roots of the tree of liberty must be nourished from time to time by the blood of tyrants and patriots alike. Now, that was not far from the Revolution when that was said. So it may seem a little dangerous to say things like that, but they experienced a lot of danger back in those days. And Jefferson thought that the American people would not be able to keep their liberty except that every 20 years or so, they would have a house cleaning, throw the bums out. He really meant throw them out so they wouldn't come back. This is about the tree of liberty and the blood of tyrants and patriots alike. So the 4th of July, Declaration of Independence, he wrote it with a little bit of help here and there. And here is a sentence from it.

» He says, He has erected a multitude. He's referring to the king of England. I say we have British among us. They're homegrown British. They're all through our government, the upper levels of government, our own homegrown British. And he says, He, the king, has erected a multitude of new offices and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. Doesn't that sound like now? And we have all these IRS agents that are going to be armed and come after us. Is my time up? Yes, sir. You know I don't like cutting people off, but I have to. Mr. Webb, can you give Danny that document and he'll make a copy for all of us, the ordinance that you were referring to, please? Okay, thank you. I just wanted to have a reference when we go to do the research. Thank you, Mr.

» Webb. All right, moving on to item number six, public hearings. We have four public hearings scheduled tonight. These are on the four changes on our ZLDR. The case corresponds with the ordinance in number eight on your agenda if you need to read more into it. We have no citizens signed up for public hearing tonight, but we will open each public hearing in case someone has come in late and they do wish to speak. The public hearing is on case 2309, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations, ZLDR. If there's anyone in the audience that would like to come up and speak for this hearing, please do so at this time. All right, and we'll close that public hearing.

» The next public hearing will be on case number 23-11, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina, Unified Code, ZLDR. If there's anyone in the audience that would wish to make a comment during this public hearing, please do so at this time. Okay, seeing that nobody is coming forward, this public hearing is closed. The next public hearing is on case 23-12, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County Unified Code, ZLDR. If there's anyone in the audience that wishes to come forward to speak in the public hearing. Mr. Tom Webb III, welcome back. Just in general, I don't think the public has any idea whatsoever what's in all of this. How do you get the information? I don't use a computer. I want the information. I want to know what's coming at us. And I talked to Danny.

» He says he'll get me a copy of it at some point. I'd love to have it in my hand right now. I should have had it last week. But the general public is very often just caught in a snowstorm. They don't know what's coming at them. Yes, sir. In the agendas, they're on the wall right there, Mr. Webb. They are under item number 8. And so this specific hearing on number 12, this is to amend the table on section 3-3 to correct the site-built housing categories involving triplex and quadruplex housing. So there's an error on the table, and triplex is listed twice. We need to remove it. Any other comments for the public hearing? Okay, this public hearing is closed. The next public hearing is case 23-10, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina, Unified Code, ZLDR.

» This case is to change the density of manufactured homes per acre to allow a density of three manufactured homes per acre. If there's anyone in the audience that would like to comment on this zoning change, please approach the podium. Yes, sir. Mr. Tom Webb III. If a ship has a problem at sea and lifeboats are put overboard, there are just so many people that can get on a lifeboat. And then if they get more, then it sinks and everybody goes down with the ship. The same thing can happen to some degree in an area where too many people move in, and times may seem good. The sea is calm. There are fish to be caught. But then when things go bad, what are you going to feed them with? And I brought this up again and again.

» If you've got too many people, there's not going to be enough food to go around when things go bad. Eventually things will go bad. They always do. So what are you going to do? You're letting in too many people. So cutting the lot size down is great. I'm in favor of that because it's sort of like we all should be able to do what we want with our property. But at some point it becomes important to the whole of us to keep ourselves alive when things go bad, to have enough food to go around, enough resources. And they will run out very quickly the more people we have. Thank you, Mr. Webb. Any other comments for the public hearing? And this closes this public hearing. All right. That concludes the public hearing portion of our meeting. Thank you, Mr. Webb, for your comments. Okay.

» Item number seven, approval of minutes for the Tuesday, July 25, 2023, regularly scheduled meeting. Is there a motion at this time regarding these minutes? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that we approve the July 25, 2023, regular meeting minutes and submit it. Mr. Tucker makes a motion to approve the minutes as submitted. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson with the second. Any discussion? Madam Chair, I just want to thank Madam Clerk, Ms. Hannah. Well, good job. Thank you. So I do have something that needs to be added to the minutes. So I make a motion to amend the minutes to include the public comments portion of the meeting. Every council member should have a copy of it. This did not make it in the minutes because this was in my possession.

» I was kept it to contact some of the citizens, and it didn't make it. So at this time, I make a motion to amend our minutes to add this sheet. Okay, Mr. Shoemake, seconds. And any discussion on this public comment addition? Okay, all those in favor of the amendment to amend the Tuesday, July 25, minutes to include the public comments listing, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, myself, Mr. Shoemake, and Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazzell abstains for absent, correct, for absence. Okay, now to the motion to approve the minutes. All those in favor of approving the minutes as amended, please indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tucker, Mr. Shoemake, myself, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato, and Mr. Brazzell abstains. Yes. Okay, those minutes are approved as amended.

» Moving on to item number eight, ordinances. The first case tonight will be 23-08, an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of Kershaw County to rezone approximately 60 acres of property TMS number 308-0000-084, excluding one acre future utility parcel for an existing cell tower on parcel 084, owned by Donald E. Taylor and located on the north side of Wildwood Lane, approximately one quarter mile west of Watts Hill Road, Elgin, South Carolina, from RD2, Rural Resource District to R15, low-density residential district. This is the second reading of this ordinance change. Is there a motion at this time regarding this ordinance? I'd like to make a motion to approve second reading of 23-08, 60-acre plat. Okay, Mr. Tucker makes a motion to approve this second reading.

» Is there a second? Okay, I'll second. And into discussion. Mr. Tucker, I'll give you the floor first. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the second, because I had some questions and just wanted to get some clarity before we vote. So, Mr. Joey, if you could, can you come forward, please? Good evening. Good evening. How are you, sir? I'm well, thank you. Good, good. We hope not to keep you too long tonight. I saw in the information package we got that this was something that has been voted on in the previous, about a year ago, a little over a year ago. Yes, sir. And if I'm correct, I think it was voted on by planning and zoning 5-1, and then it was struck down on second reading by council. That is correct. And then what was the vote this time? It was unanimous.

» Unanimous this time from planning and zoning. All right, so here lies the two questions I have for you, because I know we're trying to do the ZDLR for the comprehensive plan. So I was looking through here, and these were the two questions that was asked, and I needed to know the answers to. Does the request follow the future land map use? With the future land use? Yes. It is an area, from what I recall, that is identified for residential development. Okay, so that's a yes. Does the request collaborate with the current Kershaw County comprehensive plan? And I'm going to add to it, where are we going in the future with the new comprehensive plan? Sure. What the comprehensive plan encourages is where there are services available, is to allow development to occur.

» So, in effect, this is a, if you will, a property that I describe as a donut. It's surrounded by development. But it does not have sewer available to it. So they cannot develop 15,000 square foot lots. There would have to be a minimum of a half acre of a lot, because it's going to be on well and septic tanks. And I do believe that is in more keeping with the future vision of development for Kershaw County. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Joey, for those answers. I appreciate it. I've got a question, if I may. So, I remember last year, we voted against it, and I can't remember the exact reason. And I know we were told that the local builders were going to be building custom homes on the property. Have we heard from the developer yet? I would have to defer to him on those specific development plans.

» Okay. Could we hear from the developer, please? He is here tonight, Mr. Mark Taylor. Okay. Thank you. It's Adele. Can you invite him up? I was about to say, it's a developer here. Right. Hello, sir. How are you? Good. Mr. Brassel. Hey, sir. How are you? Are you the same gentleman that came last year? No. We own the land. Okay. It gets confusing. We are developers. We're commercial developers. Golf courses, condos at the beach. So, I was told, as a real estate developer broker, they didn't need my help. I don't do residential subdivisions. And lo and behold, they came into the second hearing. I don't even know that they attended, because when they were successful, the first reading, they assumed, like Richland and Lexington, that was kind of it.

» But y'all do it differently, so they got blindsided. Well, we're thorough, sir. I appreciate it. I really do. So, this year, my father and I, you weren't at the last meeting, but I explained the crime has kind of brought this on five years or so ago. I live there. Okay. So, we're kind of playing defense. We're going to develop, as you see, if you have the map, we're developing about 60 acres acres of the 100 acres we have, the old family farm. So, we're trying to kind of buffer ourselves from Watts Hill Road. But as you see, we're going to have a road going out on to Watts Hill, because there's no traffic back there. And, you know, as you know, it's single-wide and drug dealers and all that.

» So, I'm being overrun, as I told the group last week, with their tearing down the fences, the gates. They use the no trespassing signs for target practice. So, we're kind of playing defense, you know. So, you're going to use this subdivision as a buffer between yourself and people using offense as target practice? Yeah. Thank you, sir. I'm tired of being threatened. So, yeah, that's why I'm here. Okay. I have no further questions. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Any other questions for Joey? Joey, I just have one. The zoning of the surrounding area that we're looking at right here in yellow. Get to my map so I can give you accurate information if I can get to it. Okay. So, to your north of this site, it's RD2. Okay.

» To the south, it's R15, which is the district they're requesting. To the very east, it's an RD2. And then to the west, it's R15. That's four different ones. You have basically RD2 and R15 surrounding this. Okay. Okay. Anything else? Okay. All those in favor of approving the second reading of case 23-08, an ordinance to amend the official zoning map of Kershaw County to rezone 60 acres of property TMS 308-000084 from RD2 to R15 low-density residential district. Indicate by raising your hand, right? All those in favor, myself, and Mr. Tucker, and all those opposed, Mr. Brazel, Mr. Shoemake, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. And this ordinance does not pass second reading. All right.

» Next ordinance, second reading of case 23-09, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina, Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations, Section 3, 1.3, Table 3-4, to require minimum lot sizes of 15,000 square feet for residential development. Is there a motion at this time regarding this ordinance? Madam Chair, I make a motion that we approve the case number 2309, the lot sizes, making them 15,000 square feet for residential development. Mr. Kershaw County, second? I'm second. Mr. Shoemake? Into discussion. Starting with you, Mr. Tucker? I defer to Mr. Shoemake. Mr. Shoemake. So, I'll just recap for those people who are listening and here in the room. The next four ordinances, I believe, are all related to our efforts to sort of handle some of that growth influx.

» So, 2309 would increase the minimum lot size. The effective net of this would be if a development was properly zoned and had sewer and water, the minimum lot size would be increased universally to 0.34, 3334. But if you did not have sewer, then it would be a half acre minimum. And then, if I may just hit the other ones, just 2311 basically deletes the conservation table. Conservation districts are a great idea, but we just haven't really used this one. And in the master rewrite, we're going to go back to trying to find a better way to do these conservation districts. So, right now, we're just taking out what we have because it's just a lot of excess stuff that we've never used.

» 2312 is, again, you already mentioned that one, Madam Chair, but 2312 just fixes that typographical error evolving triplex or triplex, sorry. And 2310 changes the density for mobile homes to sort of be in keeping with 2309. So, basically, the net effect of these is so that we can't have a lot of houses. And I would just like to say, too, I didn't want to say much of the last vote, but, you know, I think it's important. And one of the reasons that I was pushing for this is the number one complaint I get in the Elgin area is where the growth is out of control. So much is coming in. And so, what I have decided personally to do is until we sort of see the effect of this and get a handle on this, I am not inclined to vote to be in favor of rezonings that will allow greater residential density.

» And that's just sort of an across-the-board position that I feel sort of compelled to take at least between now and the rewrite. So, for the gentleman that was here before and other folks that come in, it's not that I'm against it forever, but me personally, I would like to see the effect of this and our master plan coming along to see what we can do to get a handle of the growth. It just seems inconsistent for me personally to vote yes for this, but also to allow someone to put more density. So, that's all that I have. Thank you, Mr. Shoemake. So, the lot size of $15,000, the gentleman that was just here were going to be half-acre lots. Yeah, correct. And that's why I say, so I was speaking more broadly, his lots would have been in keeping with this.

» But we're heading in a direction to say, let's slow the amount of homes we're putting into Elgin. And so, anything that would increase the amount of homes we're putting into Elgin, I'm leery to vote for. So, I understand that he would be in keeping with this, and that's why I wanted to be clear, explain my positioning on reading those two together. How about their individual property rights to build, I'm speaking, to build and develop their own land that they own? I couldn't agree more. I think it's the great, Mr. Webb actually said it earlier, I think you've got this, you know, I think that I wrote it down. It's important to the whole of us to keep, you know, it's important to the whole of us that we make sure that the whole of us is protected.

» And right now, we're eating so much into our fire services, first responder services, you know, it is getting to an unsustainable point. We're hopefully getting Elgin and Lugoff into the other cog, and we can see some infrastructure development. But I feel a little bit like we're putting the cart before the horse. I completely agree with you, Madam Chair, which is why I'm very conflicted, why I voted tentatively for it on first reading. I completely agree that we have to balance that. And I totally respect someone's balance falling on the other side, because it's a fair argument. For me, though, when we look at that balance, I see the people in Elgin talking about being stuck in traffic.

» I mean, turning on White Pond Road between 7 and 9 in the morning, taking 15 minutes at the stop sign on, you know, off Elgin on Pine Street. You know, I see that because I live it. I live this where I live, and I see it every day. And at some point, we have to say we need to get a hold of this before we start kind of bringing more people in. It definitely balances against a person that might come in and want to do more with their property. I concede that. But larger picture in terms of what we owe for the community, I think it's important. It's, again, the number one complaint I get in Elgin and Lugoff. It's a fair debate, but that's where I come down on. But I respect your opinion, and I think it's a fair question. No, thank you. Yeah, thank you.

» Because we've had that discussion before, so I appreciate it. Mr. Brazel. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt. My apology. If I may, I think what this ordinance does is it addresses a larger issue. The larger issue is in our general development, it allowed for R6 and R10, which are 6 and 10,000 square foot lots. So what this does, it's different than someone wanting to rezone to higher density. What it does is it alleviates these parcels that are already zoned general development. It alleviates 6,000 square foot lots, which is teeny, teeny, tiny lot size. I think that's what this 23-09 does. Does that make sense? It never didn't make sense. Thank you, though. Perfect. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Shoemake, for working on this. This was a long time in the making.

» Any other comments? Okay. All those in favor of the second reading of Case 2309, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina, Unified Code CLDR, Table 3-4, to require a minimum lot size of 15,000 square feet for residential development, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. This passes second reading. Right. The next ordinance. Second reading of Case 23-11, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina, Unified Code CLDR. Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations, to amend Article 2, to delete conservation design as a defined term, to amend Section 3, 1.3, by repealing Table 3-5, to amend Section 3, 1.3, Table 3-6, by removing references to non-residential conservation design developments.

» To amend Section 3, 2.3, to amend Section 3, 5.4, by repealing provisions related to open space in a conservation design subdivision and group development design project. And, Joey, I'm going to ask you to come back to amend Section 3, to amend Section 5, 2.3, to amend Section 5, 2.2, Table 5-4, to remove reference to conservation design projects, to repeal Section 5, 3.3, to remove all provisions related to conservation subdivision and group development designs, and to amend the Table of Contents for Article 3 and 5, by removing all references to ordinance provisions repealed by this ordinance. And, Joey, I'm going to ask you to come back to amend the Table of Contents. And, Joey, I'm going to ask you to come back up again.

» Is there a motion at this time regarding this ordinance? I would make a motion we adopt this ordinance. Okay. Mr. Shoemake makes the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. Into discussion. Mr. Shoemake, thank you for touching on it. Joey, in layman's terms, can you just tell us what the Conservation District was or is currently, and if we're using it? Sure, I'd be happy to. Actually, what this was aimed at are very large parcels of land that may have environmentally sensitive wetlands or floodplains, and it was close to sewer. So, what it allowed is for 40% of the parcel to be developed in very high density, like 6,000 square foot lots, and then the remainder of the parcel, 60%, those wetlands, floodplains, all those open space areas, be allowed to be just open space.

» The difficulty in my almost five years of being here is the challenge of finding these large parcels that are close to sewer. They just don't really exist anymore. They're getting eaten up with other development. But, of course, when this was announced, there was one developer that came to me and said, hey, I can do this. But they did not get their application in, and two, with raising the lot size to a minimum of 15,000 square feet, it really makes this kind of a moot development approach because it's just not going to be able to be developed under 15,000 square foot lots. But we'll go back with the consultants, and we'll try to find something that is of similar design and to put into our new code. Okay. Thank you. Any comments? I've got a question, if I may.

» So, this is actually a design that I like a lot. You can take a piece of land and, like you said, put an undesirable portion of it into walking trails, or you could have open space for the community. What I've seen is that, yes, it does get really dense, 6,000, 10,000 square feet. But what it also does, and what I'd like to maybe offer as an amendment, is that we don't get rid of this completely. I think you could go from R1 to an R15 if you put 60% of the property into an easement with Congaree Land Trust or whomever, and then the rest of the property can be developed on half-acre lots or one-acre lots, which is somewhat reasonable.

» The extremely high-density portion of it, I understand and I agree completely with, but I would ask everyone to consider not tossing this in its entirety just yet. This is actually a decent model. I just think it needs restructuring. Thank you, Mr. Brasser. Joey, how many do we have in the county? Zero. Okay. And we had one person that potentially wanted to use this but did not. Yeah, in my time here, I've actually had three developers come to me and try to work the numbers, and they've said that they can't. I have one recently, a fourth, that came to me and has, I forget the amount of track, it's off Longtown Road, but said that they were probably going to be able to make this work. Okay. But that's under the higher-density lots of 6,000-square-feet type lots.

» Once they expand their lots, they might not have that room. Okay. And is that the case that has not applied yet or? Correct. Okay. Yes. Okay. All right. Any other questions or comments? Okay. With that, all those in favor. All those in favor of the second reading, case 23-11, which would remove the conservation subdivision and group development designs, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, myself, Mr. Shoemaker, and Mr. Tucker, and all those opposed. Mr. Brazel. All right. This ordinance passes second reading. Next ordinance.

» A second reading of case 23-12, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code of Zoning and Land Development Regulations to amend section 3, 1.3, table 3-3, to correct the site-built housing categories involving triplex and quadruplex housing. Is there a motion at this time regarding this ordinance? My mom was motioned. Okay. Mr. Shoemaker makes the motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. Mr. Tucker, are you okay? I spent my mom up here watching on K&M, so. Okay. Sorry. All right. Into discussion. Mr. Shoemaker, do you have anything to add on this? In your package, you can see the matter that will be stricken. And triplex and quadruplex is listed twice, so this is more of an administrative update.

» While we were already taking on these updates and meeting with Joey, this was another thing that needed change, so we'll put it in there. Any questions for Joey on this one? Okay. All those in favor of the second reading of case 23-12 to correct the site-built housing categories involving triplex and quadruplex housing, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. This passes second reading. And next ordinance is case 23-10, an ordinance to amend the Kershaw County, South Carolina Unified Code, CLDR, to amend section 3.3.8, J.S.

» and Juliet, from the allowed density of six manufactured homes per acre to an allowed density of three manufactured homes per acre, and to amend section 3.1.3, table 3-3, to correct the status of manufactured housing parks in R6 and GD districts for permitted use to conditional use. Is there a motion about this ordinance at this time? I would move the wind up. Okay, Mr. Shoemake makes a motion. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tucker. Mr. Shoemake, do you have anything to add that hasn't already been said? No. Okay. Any questions for Joey? Discussion? Okay.

» At this time, all those in favor of the second reading of case 23-10, which would amend section 3.3 to an allowed density of six manufactured homes per acre to an allowed density of three manufactured homes per acre, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. This passes second reading. Next ordinance is an ordinance authorizing an amendment to the agreement for development of a joint county industrial park by and between Kershaw County, South Carolina, and Fairfield County, South Carolina, to expand the boundaries of the park to include real property and other related matters. Is there a motion pertaining to this ordinance at this time? Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that we approve first reading of this ordinance, please. Mr. Tucker makes the motion.

» Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. Mr. Tomlin's in second. And we do have Jeff here if there's any questions related to this. Mr. Tucker? No, ma'am. I'm good right now. Thank you. Could we get just kind of an overview? Yes, absolutely. Jeff, could you come to the podium, please? I'm sorry. Mr. Burgess. Yes, ma'am. Can you just give us an overview of the change that's happening? The change that's occurring with this is expanding it to include what would have been, it's currently Pinnacle Pavement or precast. They were not originally included in, I believe, the list to put inside the multi-county park. And as part of their FELO agreement, the ordinance was to slide them in under the SSRC for that project if they should ever have it. Okay.

» But it just expands the park boundaries to include Pinnacle Pavement into that. And this is something council already approved in their FELO agreement, and now we need to actually change the industrial park. Okay. Correct. Thank you. This is the property off of the Frontage Road, is that correct? Yes, sir. It's off Whiting Way. Okay. Thank you, sir. Any other questions? Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Burgess. Thank you. All those in favor of the first reading of an ordinance authorizing an amendment to the agreement for development of joint county industrial park by and between Kershaw County and Fairfield County to expand the boundaries of the park to include real property and other related items, indicate by raising your hand. Okay. And the vote is unanimous. This passes first reading.

» Okay. We're up to item number nine in our agenda, old business, the health service district of Kershaw County seat one appointment. This was placed on the agenda by Councilman Russell Brazel. So, Mr. Brazel, you have the floor. Thank you, ma'am. I would like to make a motion to nominate Tanisha Jay for the seat one appointment for the health resources district. I would second that. Okay. Mr. Brazel's motion is to nominate, Mr. Brazel, you're nominating Tanisha Jay. Yes, ma'am. For the seat one on the health service district board. And Mr. Shoemake seconds. Okay. Into discussion, Mr. Brazel, you have the floor. Well, she's done a fine job for two years, and this would secure her appointment for another six. I think she's done a great job.

» And, you know, I think if she wants to continue on, and she's indicated that she has, she does want to continue on and see a lot of these projects move forward that they've worked on as a board. So, I want to keep her in place and look forward to doing it. Okay. Any other comments or questions? Mr. Shoemake? Just next, at our next meeting, I will be making my nomination. So, I just wanted to put that out there because I know that we have a couple of vacancies. So, I just wanted to point out for anybody that might be listening, that will occur at our next meeting, or at least for me. Thank you. And we have been talking about this all summer. So, I just went for the public's information.

» This is state law that went into effect, and Section 2 of the Health Service District of Kershaw County Composition, A-1, reads, Seven members of the board shall be nominated respectively by each of the seven members of Kershaw County Council, and two members shall be nominated by any member of Kershaw County Council. Seats 1 through 6 on the board shall correspond with the district number of the nominating council member. Seats 7 shall be the board nominated by the chairman of Kershaw County. Seats 8 and 9 shall be the board members nominated by any member of county council. Nominees shall be appointed to the board upon a majority vote of the county council in the favor of the nomination. And I wanted to read that.

» And also in front of you, you have a list of applicants for the Health Service District Board. Each member sitting here will nominate the seat on the board that corresponds with your district, and seat 7 for myself. The member that you nominate does not have to reside within the boundaries of your district. So, I just wanted to put that out there. In case there's any confusion that you have to nominate someone living within your district, you do not. You just get to nominate that seat number. Madam Chair. Yes, sir. Just for clarity. So, this fills one of the vacancies, so we'll have two more or three more vacancies. We will have seat 3 and seat 8 still vacant. This would fill seat 1. Yeah. So, we've got two vacant. One is going to be for Mr. Shumay, and the other one will be at large.

» Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. Tonight, we're just going to do seat 1, and it does correspond with the district she lives in, so I just wanted to clarify that. Just in case anyone would like to nominate someone that is not physically residing inside their district, you can. All right. At this time, all those in favor of the nomination of Ms. Tenisa J into seat 1 on the Health Service District of Kershaw County Board, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Brasner, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Shumay, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato, and those opposed will be myself, Ms. Hannah. Right, and congratulations to Ms. Tenisa J. She will sit in seat 1 on the Kershaw County Health District Board. And we will get our letters out. We will. Thank you. We will get our letters out.

» And August 22nd, thank you for bringing that up. We will have nominations for seat 3. That will be your nomination. And seat 8 will be nominated by any council member up here. All right. And to council briefs, Mr. Tomlinson, we're going to start with you tonight. I'm going to be very brief. I'd like to thank all my colleagues and staff, as always, for your hard work and appreciate the quick meeting. And this has been quite a pleasure. But thank everybody for attending. And I look forward to the next meeting coming up. Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson. Mr. Cato? I also will be very brief. I just want to bring it to everybody's attention, again, that school started back this week.

» And the kids and the buses and the parents and the teachers and everybody's on the roads, filling the roads up in the mornings and in the evenings. So please use extra caution. I also want to remind everybody of the football jamboree this year. It's at North Central High School. All three county football teams, Camden, Lugolf, and North Central, will be participating in this. And that starts at 6 p.m. Weather permitting, it might be pushed back due to the heat. But I look forward to seeing everybody out at the jamboree this week. What day? It's Friday. Friday. I'm sorry. This Friday, 6 p.m. August 11th. This Friday, 6 p.m. Say the location again. Central High School. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Bratzel. Yes, thank you.

» Appreciate you guys doing without me at the last meeting. My family and I were enjoying a vacation together with our oldest son, who was home from college. So I appreciate you guys letting me have an absence. Missed you all. I'd like to speak to development. We've talked about development tonight. And I want to say that I'm not against development in Kershaw County, but we've definitely had more development here in the last two years than we've had in a long time. And it's brought a lot of concerns to many citizens. So for the gentleman that was here, I'd love to see a nice development go in. But what I was hearing tonight wasn't exactly what led me to believe that was the case. We look for quality in Kershaw County, and I don't take this position lightly. I know none of us do. So we do.

» We look for quality development, and we like to hear from the developers and know that the partnership is something that's positive for the community and for everyone who now currently lives in Kershaw County. So I just wanted to say that for the record. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Tucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. I've got a couple of few things here. I want to start off by saying thank you, Mr. Templer and staff and Madam Clerk to Ms. Lauren. I think she's back there somewhere. And Mr. Gerald, see, not here today, for gathering up all the children, that's what we are, to get us to conference safely. Very informative and back home safely.

» I won't steal the Madam Chair's thunder, but I thought it was a very productive, informative, and great conference, one of the better ones that we've attended in a long time. So kudos to you guys. Kudos to my colleagues up here. I want to tell you that everybody sitting up here on the dais is on their way to getting their level one accreditation from the Association of Counties, and that's big. So they can go to level two, and then they can get in advanced courses. And it just brings everybody to the same place when it comes down to serving in these seats and being professional and being understanding of how things go and run. And it brings camaraderie. So I'm going to leave that there, Madam Chair, because I think I'm probably me stepping over in your territory.

» But I just want to say thank you. We had a Cog Board meeting last night. It was actually my first meeting as chair of the Cog Board. And here's what I'm going to tell you. Get on, fasten your chassis belt, because we're going for a ride. We've got a lot of good things happening in the Cog, and I'm very excited. Madam Chair attended last night, and I'm going to tell you, I really appreciate her because we came back in that storm. We got out in time, got a little wet getting in the car, but we traveled in the storm to get back home, and we followed each other and made it safely, thank God. But very, very exciting times with the Cog, and she'll elaborate on that as well.

» So I just want to announce also on August 11th, this coming Friday, the Finance Committee will be meeting at 1,500 hours in Room 207, and you are invited. Don't forget, Finance Committee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Carter, can you say that again? August 11th, which will be this Friday, is, ma'am, at 1,500 hours, 3 p.m. for civilians, and Room 207. Thank you. Right. We can all leave it and go to Jammer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. That concludes my report. Just a few quick things. First off, I want to thank you, Madam Chair, for acknowledging Pastor White and letting him get his prayer in since he drove so far. Again, he's just a great guy, and we're lucky to have him. I mean, we can always use another prayer, I feel like. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

» And then just a reminder, this Thursday at 6 o'clock from 6 to 8.30 at Blaney Baptist Church, I'll be hosting a town hall in Elgin. Obviously, anyone in the county is invited. Madam Chair has graciously agreed to join me. I've also have the county administrator will be there. We also have invited and confirmed to attend. Of course, it's up to them. Hopefully, they will be there. We have an engineer from DOT. We also have the superintendent and the operations director of the school board. And we have the mayor of Elgin. So, for those who live in Elgin and have questions, again, I would encourage you to come and ask those questions there. Because you'll have a good mix of folks that are sort of subject matter experts and not just those who are elected. So, this should be pretty good.

» And then I look forward to the COG putting a bunch of money into Elgin. That's it. Thank you, Mr. Schumacher. Okay, challenge accepted by Mr. Tomlinson on the short meeting. First, I do want to talk about your, I'm sorry, your town hall on Thursday. So, thank you for doing that. So, this is an opportunity to show up and talk to the people directly, not just Councilman Shoemake, but myself or the administrator or DOT about issues that are important to you. So, I'm just very thankful that you took the time and set all that up. Because there's a lot of issues that we can resolve through that process that don't have to make it up here at one of these meetings. So, thank you. The COG meeting last night. So, I just wanted to give a couple updates. So, GE Hire Company.

» So, they are, they do have funds allocated for expansion projects. They are currently trying to meet their employment threshold. Part of the, I guess, the deal, would you say? Yes, ma'am. Mr. Tucker, the contract was that they meet a certain threshold of employees. And they're trying to get to 60 new hires in a certain job category and they're at 43. So, once they meet that job category of 60, that money will be released so that they can do their expansion. We still have on the books a brand new fire truck for Kershaw County Fire Services that is still in the works. We are waiting on the fire truck. There's a delay in that ordering process. We've been talking about that all year. The 521 widening project. So, I have reached out to some citizens in Kershaw County.

» And if you live in that area, Rembert, out towards Sumter, please contact us and let us know what you think about that. The plan would be, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Tucker, to widen it all the way from Sumter to Camden. Yes, ma'am. From Rembert back to I-20. Yes. Another thing that the COG is working on, veteran services. So, the COG has available vouchers for electric bills. If you know a veteran that is struggling and may need assistance, please contact one of us. We'll get you in touch with the right person at the COG to start that application process. Also, tenant housing assistance. That is not just for veterans. That is for anyone that may need some housing assistance, a one-time mortgage payment or rent, security posits to move somewhere.

» So, if you are a citizen in that situation or you know one, please contact us so we can get you in touch with the proper person at the COG. There is a lot of services, I learned, at the COG that are underutilized. So, please give us a call. We are policymakers, but we oftentimes have resources or rapport with other counties who might have services that can help out. All right. Moving on to... Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Can you speak a little bit on Black River Road, the whiting on it? That's been, it's in what we call the chute now. So, that's going to happen for the housing development there and the industrial part. That's probably going to go into three lanes, sidewalks, but that's been approved by DOT.

» We're just working on some other things, but we've done pretty much the preliminary on that. What is the exact location that's going to be from 521 Black River Road to the city limits, which will be right in front of higher, or GE. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. You're welcome. Kershaw County Boards and Commission Openings. So, my intent tonight is to announce these openings so that if there is someone interested in being on these boards or commissions, that they apply. And at the next meeting, August 22nd, we can read your name for the record and get you on the minutes so that you are eligible to be nominated in that position. So, the Clean Community Commission. There are six openings on the Clean Community Commission. The Library Board, there is one opening.

» Board of Zoning and Appeals, there are two openings. And the Old English District Commission, there is one opening. So, if you're interested in any of those, you would like more information, you can contact any of us. You can contact Ms. Hannah. You can go to the website. But please get your application in before August 22nd so that your name can be put on the record. Also, at the August 22nd meeting, we will take A-tax nominations, airport commission nominations, and seats three and seats eight for the Health Service District of Kershaw County. So, those names have already been publicized, and we'll go ahead with the nominations.

» The reason we didn't do it tonight is because the vice chair is absent, and I personally believe that every single person should be here when we make the board and commission's nominations. All right, last week, we attended the Association of Counties Conference, and it was phenomenal. I kind of want to tell you a little bit about what they do, what we did there, and why it's important. So, they put on several training classes. Those were Weathering the Next Crisis. It was Emergency Management Class, and we got to talk to other counties that have dealt with emergency management situations and pick their brain and look at their ordinances and really kind of evaluate if Kershaw County is up to par with that.

» If we had a natural disaster of some sort, are we ready? Ethical leadership and public service. Building effective intergovernment relations. Economic Development Toolkit. And it wasn't taught by Mr. Burgess, but it should have been. Legal issues in a political environment. I think that's always important for everybody up here. And the reason these classes are important, in my opinion, is, you know, someone asked, is there any training for council members? Like, do you have to go through any kind of training before you sit up here? No, you don't have to. No, but what the Institute, the Association of Counties does through this institution is provides that training. So, you're already drinking through a fire hose, and they kind of portion it out for you a little better.

» So, everyone up here, if you take the classes, you can get a certification. Ms. Hannah is working on her certification as our clerk. So, it just, it builds better council members. It builds rapport with other counties. If we ever get into a situation, a good, great example is the detention center. If we ever need to move anyone from the detention center, we've met the other council members and chairs at our surrounding counties that can help us out or assist in any way. And we learn from other counties. We don't just learn what to do. We learn what not to do. So, it was an awesome conference. Thank you to everyone that participated. Also, we are hoping that next year, Mr.

» Tucker will get a nomination onto the Associated Counties board, and he can provide his many years of institutional knowledge to the next generation of public officials. So, that would be awesome. All right. I have a couple boards and commission candidates to announce tonight. The first candidate is Mr. Paul Curtis from Elgin, District 3. Mr. Jeffrey Murphy from District 4. And Mr. Christopher Renfro from District 3. And my apologies, I need to announce the board they are seeking. Mr. Renfro for the Tourism Advisory Committee. Mr. Murphy for the Airport Commission, Zoning Board of Appeals, or Planning and Zoning Commission. And Mr. Schumann, can you remind me of Mr. Curtis's, because I don't have it in front of me. Sure. Mr. Paul Curtis is applying for the Airport Commission.

» Airport Commission, okay. Thank you. And if I might add, if you have some statutory requirements, Mr. Renfro, as the owner of a lodging facility, would meet the hospitality and lodging requirement for the ATAC. Yes, thank you. So, those applications are available. Ms. Hannah can get you a copy. Reach out to these applicants and get to know them. Come talk to them and see what they can offer on the commission. That concludes my chairwoman's report, Mr. Templer, administrator's report. And I see that you have something specific. Yes, ma'am. Madam Chair, members of the council, you have before you three preliminary options for our rec master plan, if you will. So, this has been a project that's been taken on by Alliance Consulting and Engineers. We've worked with Alliance over two decades.

» They were responsible for both of our rec master plans. And so, what they've provided for us here tonight, three options, and again, these are preliminary as to what we could do with option number one being Larry Doby complex, just that complex only. Option number two is Woodward Park. And option number three would be a combination of both. Preliminary cost opinions are approximately $10 million per option. So, it includes at the Larry Doby complex, two ADA-compliant playgrounds, parking, increased amount of parking that is actually paved parking. You can see there are four baseball fields and numerous soccer fields, youth soccer fields. There's a disc golf course, there's a paved walking course, two outdoor basketball courts.

» It also involves renovations of the concession stands, press box, and some existing picnic shelters. So, again, these are preliminary. So, what we plan to do is get public input. We plan to get the rec commission, get these plans in front of the rec commission next. Also, in conversation with the CARES group, I want them to have input. So, just to make sure we're delivering the end product of what is going to be usable and realistic. Going to Woodward Park option two, this adds a significant amount of parking, two adult soccer fields, and two smaller soccer fields, a larger ADA playground, the previous option had those two split out. This is just one more, one larger facility, four batting cages, and the quadruple field system.

» All of these options include irrigation, which has been something that has hindered us in the past at our other facilities with grass and maintenance. Still keeping a disc golf course, which we do have existing over there now. This feature also connects a large walking track with the existing city's Sweet Gum Trail that leads from this park currently down to Scott Park. So, there is some connectivity there. This park does not include any land acquisition in its current state. I know there was some authorization to engage in discussions with an adjacent landowner, but this option, as it is right now, does not include any land acquisition. Moving on to option three, that kind of splits the difference. Still maintaining that $10 million cost opinion.

» It adds some updates to the existing areas over at Larry Doby, and it includes some parking, it's a 180A compliant playground, soccer fields of different sizes, and I believe there were some outdoor basketball courts there as well. And then shifting back over for this same option, back over to Woodward Park, you can see it's a more condensed area with everything focusing around the four baseball courts, the baseball fields, the batting cages, of course, handling some stormwater, and the walking track. So, this is just kind of splitting that money between the two facilities. Also, at this location, there's a new concession, press box, restroom area. These are the options. Again, we plan to have a lot of input. These are preliminary. I invite anyone to come out.

» We will be advertising any kind of public input sessions early and often. We try to have them at the rec department with hours that are conducive for the most amount of attendance. So, I have Shane here tonight if you all have any specific questions, but I wanted to get this in front of you all first so you all could see it, understand kind of where we're going, and understand that when we have those other organizations, CARES and the rec commission looking at it, this is where we're going to start kind of perhaps rearranging some pieces and making some additions and subtractions, obviously keeping in line with our budget. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Questions? Mr. Schumacher. I yield to you, sir. So, just a couple of things, Mr. Templer.

» First, pursuant to the motion that the council passed, the process, as I understand it from this point forward, will be it will go to the rec commission for, and then in addition to the public hearings that you're going to hold as your choice, it will go to the rec commission, and with those public hearings, it will come back to us with a sort of a recommendation from you and the rec commission of what you propose. And then it will come to us for a vote. If we vote on it, it will then go to the health services district to agree to match, and then their money would come first, and then we would go forward. So, there's a couple of steps left. Yep. And I just want to talk about two other things briefly.

» So, as I recall, there's about $1.9 million in the budget that existed for KC West renovations, correct? Correct. And then there's an additional $2 million, so we have a total of about $3.9 million remaining for recreation upgrades. Is that about correct? About right, yeah. And then so that would allow us, in addition to this, that should allow us to finish KC West. Is that correct? Yes, and right now with construction costs, there was originally probably two budget cycles ago, some capital improvement plans out there for parking, some actual parking, paved parking, and a concessions area, but right now with building costs, the obvious, the big need out there is parking. So, we would look at that first, and then anything else we can spread over there would come next.

» We went from about $400,000 or $500,000 for a concession stand to about $1.2 million, and that's probably even gone up. Wow. So, probably looking at $1.1 million potentially for parking over at KC West. And that would also include something for the other area, for the north part of Bershaw as well? Yes, yes. So, we've been looking at things like lighting and just basic improvements for Bethune and up in the Westville area, some combinations of fields. We have one field that's used more than the other, so just improving that field with lighting. So, yes, this definitely does include, with that other money, the surrounding areas. So, when it comes back to us as a recommendation, it will be for all of those things collectively. Yes, correct. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.

» And none of this, as I see, none of this or none of what we talked about involves building new parks. This is all improving the infrastructure that currently exists, correct? Correct. That's all I have. Thank you, Chair. A couple of questions, if I may. Mr. Templar, I know we had $2 million that could be spent on upgrades. Where did the extra $1.9 million come from? We have some in capital reserves, I think, for some encumbered money for recreation. I'll have to get the exact numbers. Okay. Being in the home building industry and the wood products industry, I know prices have come down substantially. I would ask that you look at including a small concession closer to the gas station at Wilbur, not at Wilbur, at Kershaw County West.

» I feel like it's a very long walk from the upper portion down to the lower portion, even if it's a small concession in bathrooms. I understand we need parking, but those folks are going to have to have somewhere to go to the restroom. Yes. So, did I hear you say that we weren't going to look at that, or we are? We are, and I've been just batting around the idea of do we need the actual size of the concession stand that we had specced out four years ago? I'm sure we don't. Food trucks are such a thing now. You know, do we look at potentially having electrical inputs for food trucks to have scattered around? Is that a better option? Is that going to, I don't know.

» So, we're just going to have to get creative and think outside of the box instead of what we did 15 years ago, and just understand what is going on today, and cutting costs. I think you'll find some contractors that are a little more eager than they were even a year ago. The economy is cooled just a little. Things are cooling off some. But definitely restrooms. I know we need restrooms. I just, I wouldn't feel right about not mentioning that. And moving on from that to the options with Larry Doby and Woodward, can we see these maps with a flood zone overlay? I know there's been questions and concerns about Woodward Park having an area that doesn't drain close to the road. I don't know if that's in a flood zone or not. And then I know Larry Doby also, it's really close to the river.

» So, I'd like to take those things into consideration as I make my decisions, which one I like the best. Yes, we can provide an additional layer, two additional maps showing any kind of wetlands or water issues. I think if we go on our GIS, I think there's actually a button that'll do an overlay option. Yes. It's a flood zone. So, if we could all look at that, at least we'd all be on the same page and we'd understand what we were looking at and the potential for flooding and that sort of thing. Okay. Mr. Tucker, you have the floor. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Ms. Templer, first I want to say thank you for you and Mr. Duncan not sitting on this, getting this back to us. Really, really appreciate this because, as you know, this has been a hot topic for all of us.

» Most of my questions have been answered in reference to the divide of the monies. Just remind the Red Commission and CARES and anybody else that we need to stay in that $2 million because I pledge my vote to spend the others in northeast part of the county and finish up KC West. So, and I want to stick to that. But I've made a commitment to my colleague down there, Mr. Kato, and I want to be true to my word. So, we've got to watch overruns and things of that nature. The other thing I want to ask is, I see on all of the drafts, we have soccer fields. Mr. Duncan, are these also converted to our football fields? Can I get him to come up? Yes, sir. Okay. Mr. Duncan. Can you come up? Sir? Yes, that is a possibility.

» But one thing that we're doing right now with the school district, with our partnership, we actually play our tackle football games on school fields right now on Saturdays. So, Lugolf Felgen High School allows us to play there. When we have teams in North Central, we play at their stadium as well as, we don't play at Zimp, but we do play over where the JV teams play in Camden. You stepped it up, huh? Well, with the school district's help. And that was a common complaint we had about, you know, some of our multi-purpose fields. We're beating them up so much that soccer can't play on them a lot of times. If you've noticed, we took the soccer goals off of the field at KC West because our fields were looking pretty tough. Well, the grass has grown back because we've done that.

» We planted some grass. We did some fertilizing. Those bear spots now have grass in them. But to answer your question, yes, you could make multi-purpose fields out of these. But we're trying to stay, since we have technical soccer running our soccer programs, trying to facilitate those areas. That makes sense. I appreciate it. Mr. Duncan, do you have a list of things, like a punch list for KC West or a prioritized list of what needs to happen next? Well, I can tell you, my priority is really the parking, what I feel like should be the priority because we come very close this past spring to having an accident with a kid almost getting ran over. So, the importance of having that paved parking with another road on the backside to create another way in and out.

» Because right now, you only have one way in and one way out. And if you came out to our opening day, you could see how bad it was. So, if we can create that paved parking right there in the center of everything in that extra road, it will definitely alleviate a lot of those problems. Okay. We would love to have a restroom facility to service those top four fields as well. Because what Mr. Braswell was pointing out, you know, if those kids are playing at those baseball fields, the closest restroom is near the playground, which means they have to cross the road. Right. So, those issues are most pressing right now is the parking in the extra road, for sure. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chair? Yes. Mr. Duncan, thank you for being here tonight. One quick question.

» I think it could be good for all of council if we could maybe get a time scheduled to visit around the county all these facilities and look at it firsthand in person with staff, Mr. Duncan, and then, you know, visit Larry Dobie, visit Woodward. Go to Casey West and then the northern part of the county, and maybe we'll have to do it in two different phases since we're, what, 467 square miles. But would that be something that y'all would be interested in? And, Mr. Templer, would you be able to kind of work with the department and us to get some date and schedule? Yeah. Thank you. And, Mr.

» Templer, can you kind of lay out the timeline that we have going forward? I know you mentioned we're going to be working with CARES and the commission just kind of, and it doesn't have to be exact, but I have a lot of people asking about, you know, the timeline going forward. Is there potential of when you're thinking about the public hearings, when we're going to get this approved, when the RFPs are going out? Well, in order to get any kind of bids or anything, we have to understand what we want. And so what I am planning to do in speaking with one of the members of the rec commission is to get them to maybe do a called meeting. So we can, because now that y'all have seen this, get this in front of them quicker and not wait until that next meeting coming up.

» Certainly not wanting to rush anything, but, you know, waiting is not saving at this point. So, and then maybe working, get their input, get the CARES group input, and then as soon as possible, get these public input sessions arranged. And then, you know, penciling in extras if we have to. I don't want to be in a situation of paralysis by analysis. At some point, we're going to have to pull the trigger on this and come up and say, okay, this is what we're going with because of the construction timeline. So I don't have specific dates. We're going to try and work those out towards the end of this week, now that y'all have seen this. But the sooner, the better.

» Okay, and these public hearings will be scheduled throughout the county and different locations, or is it going to all be here before council? I would like to have it, especially for these larger pieces at the rec department, but we can schedule more if we feel attendance is light. I don't want to miss opportunity or any kind of public input. If we have to go to Elgin, if we have to go wherever, we'll be flexible. Okay, thank you for all your hard work, and Mr. Duncan, thank you for all you do. We can actually help you with one of those dates. Last week, we were scheduled to have a commission meeting on Wednesday. We've been meeting on the first Wednesday of every month. They postponed it because they wanted to postpone it because they knew the presentation was going forward tonight.

» So rec commission is going to see this tomorrow night for a meeting. So that will happen tomorrow. Awesome, thank you, Mr. Duncan. And just in keeping with the intent of the Recreation Advisory Commission and the ordinance, that commission advises you, Mr. Duncan. So, Mr. Templer, I would like Mr. Duncan to come back and report what the commission has recommended to him. And to all these quotes, and Modern Turf is working on a quote right now for infield and outfield renovations as well, as far as dirt in the infield, irrigation, and residing some fields. So, getting those quotes as well. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Mr. Duncan. Can you work a little harder? Right, right. Thank you, sir. Right, any other questions for Mr. Templer's recreation plan? Okay. Mr.

» Templer, do you have the floor for the rest of your brief? The only other thing I wanted to mention in spirit of recreation is going to be the approach for our boat ramp project over there at Patriot's Point. Similar concept. We're going to have public input, and we plan on having those at the rec department, but we also plan on going out on the weekend, Saturday mornings, and setting up something and actually talking to the people putting boats in. Shane made a good point that a lot of those individuals are not even from the county, but they use it, so we want input. But it's not a matter of anything other than what's going to be safe, what's going to be usable, and what's going to make sense out there.

» So, if we get one bite of the apple to do it right, we will be advertising those early and often as well. We kind of have our direction, our marching orders. So, I just ask the public to look out for those, and if you see a table set up under the bridge, just come over and talk to us. That's what we're out there for. So, and that is my report. Thank you. And people will come talk to you. All right, Mr. Bowes, legal briefing. No report, Madam Chair. Okay. All right, up to number 13, Executive Session. We do have a need for Executive Session tonight. Is there a motion at this time to enter Executive Session? Make motion, we go to Executive Session. Okay, Mr. Tucker makes the motion. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by Mr. Cato. Any discussion on this matter? Mr. Burgess, Mr.

» Templer, Mr. DeBose, and all of Council. Okay, motion amended to enter Executive Session with Mr. Burgess and the, excuse me, County Administrator. See, I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. I can't make it too. And second, Mr. Cato. Okay. All those in favor of entering Executive Session as amended, indicate by raising your hand. Right. Okay, the vote is unanimous. We are in Executive Session. Back on, Ryan. Thank you. All right. Is there a vote at this time or a motion at this time to come out of Executive Session? Okay. Mr. Brazel and Mr. Tucker with a second. And for the record, Ms.

» Hannah, this council received client-privileged information, a legal brief, and also an economic development matter. No votes were taken, and no votes will be taken when we come out. All those in favor of exiting Executive Session, indicate by raising your hand. All right. The vote is unanimous. We are back in regular session, and we are up to item number 14 on our agenda, adjournment. Is there a motion at this time? Moved, second. Okay. Mr. Brazel made the motion. Mr. Tucker made the second. All those in favor of adjournment, indicate by raising your hand. And the vote is unanimous. This meeting is adjourned. Okay.