Full meeting transcript - January 24, 2023

» Good evening, everyone. This is the regularly scheduled county council meeting for January 24th, 2023 at 5.30 p.m., and I call this meeting to order. All right, we have Pastor Harmon here from Union Baptist Church of Elgin. He's going to do our invocation and tell us a little bit about his church. Pastor, thank you for being here. Benefit our church members as well as our community for those that are in need. And so I like to begin our time with a word of scripture, and after the word of scripture, I'll say a prayer. In 1 Timothy 2, verses 1 through 3, it says, I urge you then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made to all people, for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peacefully and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

» This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Let us pray. Dear Lord, we are here to discuss topics that will benefit the people in this community and our county. We want to think about how we can make life easier for everyone. Come and give us the wisdom to make right decisions. Let us not make biased decisions, but decisions based on solving the problems for our children of today and the generations of tomorrow. Be our leader during this meeting. Show us the way to do good and right with kindness and grace. Give us direction and let us not think with our own selfish interests. Open our eyes to the spiritual solutions and help us to make our community great and better.

» May all this that is decided tonight bring you glory, honor, and praise. In the precious name of Jesus, I pray, amen. Amen. Thank you, Pastor Harmon. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. To the root of one nation, the God, this is liberty and liberty. All right, moving to public comments. Mr. DuBose, I'll hand it over to you. Eight people have signed up. The maximum is, that would be about, what, four minutes per person. Four minutes per person, 30 minutes, divided by eight, three minutes and 40 seconds or so per person. I have a question, Madam Chair. Yes. Can she, as the chair, allow five minutes per person? Well, the rules say, I think the old rules, new rules will be in effect after tonight. But I think until we have a third read, and they are. Thank you.

» We'll stick to the rules. So, four minutes and 30 seconds. Well, no, three minutes and 40 seconds. Three minutes and 40 seconds. I think that's about right. Eight people. Four times eight, 32. Yeah, comes up pretty close. Okay, the first person is Riggs Wilson. Mr. Riggs. Mr. DuBose, can you give the speaker a warning when they have a minute left? Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak today. My name is Riggs Wilson, and I have lived in Cannons for almost three years. I have played baseball for the Kershaw County Rec Department for the past two spring seasons. I am now on a traveling baseball team that is coached by Shane Kirkley and Matt Nettles. When I played for the Rec Department, I was selected to represent Kershaw County on the All-Star Team.

» Both years, the first year, the All-Star Team played their tournament in Hartsville, and their fields are so nice. Then last year, we played the All-Star Tournament in Macbee, and they also had nice fields. Now I am on a traveling baseball team, and we play on fields in Lexington and other parts of Columbia, and they all have nice fields, too. Why can't Kershaw County host tournaments and have nice fields, nice facilities? When we have practices on the Kershaw County fields, our coaches always have to bring their own equipment from home to even get the fields ready to practice. They also have to bring the pitching mound to even have everything we need out on the field. There was even one practice with an office chair in the middle of the field.

» I wish my Kershaw County teams, both recreation teams and travel baseball teams, could play in Kershaw County, and we didn't always have to travel to other fields. Can you please consider spending some money to have better fields and facilities in Kershaw County? Having respectful fields not only makes Kershaw County look good, but hosting tournaments like the ones I've attended the last two years can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars per week and put money into the hard-working pockets of Kershaw County citizens. Thank you again for your time. Thank you, Mr. Riggs-Wilson. And when we get to that... Brant better watch out. I think he lives in Brant's district. That is a goal for this council this year, and when we get to that planning, I'd like you to be a part of it.

» That would be very helpful since you are the one playing the baseball on the fields. And it takes a lot of courage to speak in front of all these people, so thank you. Next person signed up is Bill Stewart. Good evening. I'm a resident of Cassett, and I was reading something yesterday concerning Mr. Jones and Ms. Gwynn about the Cassett fire station being, and briefly a couple of ideas, but I personally don't think one person ought to be able to hold off the building of the construction of this station, which has been underway for a couple of years now, or has been planned for a couple of years now, well, I think four years. Ideas ahead, if the individual that's wanting to move it, if he's willing to help pay the design costs and engineering costs to relocate, that's fine.

» I don't think we should have to pay any more money, as we're already, I believe, we're over budget on that station anyway. In four years, a number of things can happen. Or if he's willing to put up, like, a nice wall of trees in between himself and the station, I think it would be good. That station is a very needed item, and as we've moved toward staffed stations and such, the existing station on Red Hill Road doesn't have any room at all to expand and add overnight facilities for firefighters, or even kitchen and restrooms, which they would need if they're doing 24 or 48-hour shifts at a station. This new station is very well needed, and I think that we need to, and I'm glad to see Ms. Gwynn and Mr.

» Jones, I'm glad to see the two of you working together to see if we can come up with a resolution with it. But I just wanted to put my ideas in for something and my objection to having it held up. Thank you very much. Thank you, Bill. The next person that's signed up is Joan McCauley. McCauley. I know it's spelled like Joan, but it's Joanne. No, that's okay. No, it is spelled like Joan. It's a Danish spelling, so you can blame my parents for that. I want to comment on the proposed resolution regarding support for parental rights in education and upbringing of children. I'm a former school teacher. Joanne, can you speak a little closer? And you can move it. Oh, okay. Is that better, Katie? Down just a little bit.

» Is that better? I'm a parent, a grandparent, a former school teacher, and a former board member and former president of a board. So I have a little bit of, just a little bit of background related to education. So my comments are, first, I'd like to understand, number one, the purpose or intent of the resolution. Two, why do you think it's necessary? Three, what are your expected outcomes if the resolution is passed? Four, what is the definition of human sexuality? What topics does this broad definition include? Second, how is this resolution in sync with the Kershaw County Council mission statement? Improving the quality of life for our citizens. It seems to me that this resolution is focused on only a portion of our citizens.

» Who decides what is appropriate? What is appropriate to you may not be consistent with my definition of appropriate. What about the children of parents who are not actively engaged in their children's education? Where and how do these children get credible information? Third, as the proposed resolution is specific to kindergarten through grade five, that is what I will reference further. And I will ask again, why is this resolution needed? Current South Carolina state law already specifies age-appropriate reproductive health education may be offered for grades K through 5, and parents must be informed in advance of any sexuality-specific instruction and are allowed to remove their children from any part of the health education classes.

» South Carolina 59-32-10 further defines what reproductive health education is, which I won't elaborate on. South Carolina does not require or suggest a specific sex curriculum. Each local school is to develop their curriculum, and each school board must appoint a 13-member local advisory committee consisting of parents, clergy, health professionals, teachers, students, and persons not employed by the local school district. Do the Kershaw County local schools have such an advisory committee? There is much that is not included in the current South Carolina law. Perhaps quality of life in Kershaw County could be improved by suggesting changes to the current law and/or working with the local curriculum advisory committee.

» Fourth, regarding other governmental entities, is this resolution in conflict with providing desired information to all citizens, allowing citizens a choice as to whether or not to utilize that information and/or resource? Fifth, is this resolution of violation of the First Amendment? A public library collection should represent a variety of viewpoints. Adult approval is already required for children under 18 to acquire a library card. Removing material that might offend one person makes it unavailable for another, which is a form of censorship. Fifth, in this resolution, if human sexuality is intended to exclude the LGBTQ+ from sex education curriculum, are you aware that South Carolina Code 5-5932, which did exclude LGBTQ+, was declared unconstitutional by the U.S.

» District Court for South Carolina? The Kershaw County Council has an obligation to all citizens, not just selected persons, or those that share certain values and opinions. The all means all, A-L-L. My last point, I think that assuming parents have total control of their children's exposure to human sexuality and many other topics is not a reality. Would you prefer your child learn from friends, classmates on the playground, or from an educator knowing that it's taking place, you then can provide parental input? Otherwise, you may not even know the conversation took place. An objective of education is to teach students to think, analyze multiple viewpoints, so they can develop their own position. Let's not change the purpose and objective of education by withholding information.

» Thank you. - Thank you, Ms. McCulley. If you can come right back, your third question in the very beginning. If we go into discussion tonight, I want to make sure I ask it. So, the purpose or intent, why is it necessary, and then number three. - What are your expected outcomes if the resolution is passed? - Thank you. - You can have this, Katie. - No, I think I got them. - The fourth person that signed up is Tracy Paul. - Hello, members of the council. - Hi, Tracy. - Hi, I am Tracy Paul. I recognize several of you. I've fed a couple of you. Haven't killed you recently. You rode with my daughter in a car. Probably a near-death experience. - Tracy, move the mic closer to your mouth. - But-- - There you go. - I'm here today for Cassette. I would like to know why construction has been halted.

» I purchased property in Cassette twice now. Once. The first property I purchased in, let's see, 2019, I believe. No, 2020 I purchased the restaurant. I actually got it in 2017. Got it, there was no business, grew it, didn't decide if I wanted to stay there, and then I knew we'd get a fire station. That was a benefit to me. The construction that goes on there, the construction of the schools, everything that's gone on that you guys have voted for, has helped me tremendously. The Cassette Fire Department, the Shepherd Fire Department, the Westville Fire Department, if you know these guys, they're wonderful people. I would do anything for them, and they would do anything for me. They would be the best neighbor that you could possibly have.

» If you have a house, I sold real estate for a long time, and whether you use an agent or not, you have a due diligence period in which you can just research everything around you. One of the things that you research is your neighbor. What will be there in the future? In the future, when you see Pershaw County in the middle of nowhere, you may want to wonder what it's going to be. If it is going to affect you, and you would not want that property, you can back out of it then. Right then. I chose not to back out, because I know having them as a neighbor helps me in the community. They are so much closer. I have sat out in the middle of Highway 1 with a woman when she got hit on a golf cart, holding her head so she wouldn't get up.

» It took them a while to get there, and the fire department was first. They always get there before the paramedics. They were what needed to protect me from getting run over. They had to protect her. I, at three, four o'clock in the morning, had a guy come over into the restaurant, ran his car through the intersection. The fire department was there first. If they could be there at that intersection, that intersection is extremely busy, especially now with three schools going in that direction. We need that fire department there. They cover over a 500 square mile radius right now. The Cassette fire department has black mold in it. They cannot stay there overnight. They have to come from Shepherd or Westville to do anything in that part of the county. Houses burn. They burn completely.

» They cannot get to them. There is no one in Bethune at this point, not enough to do anything. So we have to rely on them to come from way off to get there. Being right there on highway one, they can access so many areas more quickly. I had a guy in the, in fall at the restaurant. They were there first. I had a lady who had a stroke. They were there first. I had a man who had a heart attack in my restaurant. They were there first. Ma'am, you have less than a minute left. Thank you. My point is when you buy property, you have to look at it all around. We cannot stop the growth for many because of one. And I commend the homeowners that bought that house. It was on the market forever for far less, far more, far everything. They are doing a wonderful job to improve Cassette.

» So I feel like the supplier department would improve Cassette as well. Thank you. Tracy. Next person that signed up is Hattie Taylor. Say your name again, Ms. Taylor. It's Katie Taylor. Katie Taylor. Okay. I can remember that. So I am also from Cassette. The Cassette Fire District is one of the largest fire districts for Kershaw County. And it's super frustrating for someone in Cassette that has been waiting for this station to be built, to be halted by one person's personal feelings about seeing and hearing fire trucks. The Kershaw County taxpayers spent thousands of dollars for an engineer to do a site survey to figure out where the fire station would be located on that plot.

» The engineer chose the placement of the fire station, not done in angst or spite toward a neighbor, but chose it as the best location for the fire station. The neighbor bought their house in 2021. Two years after Kershaw County had already purchased the land for Cassette Fire Station. And as Tracy said, the neighbor should have done their due diligence to find out who or what their neighbors would be prior to purchasing their home. Anyone in the county in 2021 could have told them Cassette Fire Station is coming. That's where it's going to be. They could have looked on GIS map and seen that Kershaw County had owned it since 2019. So their lack of proper research into their own property should not cause the entire Cassette Fire District to suffer further delay in a new station.

» Furthermore, moving the station to a new location on that lot or a different lot would cost taxpayers thousands of dollars. The taxpayers would have to pay to hire the engineer to survey the land again, to clear more land, to bring in more dirt, and move the dirt that's already been put there in the proposed location. I hope that you consider telling the neighbor that the petition is not substantiated at all and that you will not move Cassette Fire Station. Thank you, Katie. The next person signed up is Donnie Cato. Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Hey, Donnie. Again, good to see the council again. I've been here before, addressed the council before this one, and I'm very proud that we have a council member that is from the Timrod, Mount Pisgah area that sits on the council.

» That is something that's been needed for a long time as representation for the northeastern part of Kershaw County, where I have lived for 76 years, except for a short period of time that I was in the military. Thank you for your service. Now, my reason to be here tonight is to reiterate what two or three has already told you. That Cassette Fire Station is a valuable asset to the northeastern part of Kershaw County. Most people don't even know where Timrod community is at. Most of you probably know where Bethune's at, but you don't realize how much industry is in the agricultural section of that part of the county. There's millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars been invested in the northeastern part of Kershaw County.

» And if you doubt that, there's a gentleman that just invested $150 million in Camden, South Carolina, to support the operations that a large number are located in the Timrod, Mount Pisgah, Buffalo, Bethune area. And that's Dr. Ron Prestige. I know you've heard that name. And the plan he just got through building in his debugging right now supports our farms. Our farms cost a million dollars to build. Now, I've had one of my houses catch on fire in the last five, six years. And guess where the rotator was at that rotates from fire station to fire station? Where do you think he was at? You don't have to answer that question. Because you know he was at the father's distance from Bethune area.

» Now, my understanding is the Cassette system is supposed to be manned 24/7 along with the EMS possibly Station 5 moving to Cassette. Now, if that's the plan, that is a beautiful plan in my opinion. Now, I don't understand this. When I went by there and they had told me that the project had been stopped. Now, one horse don't stop no project. If those people had their proper permits to build what they were building, then they simply tell you to go see somebody else and leave me alone. Now, if you don't have the proper permitting, then you've got another problem to look at. And I hope the council will address that tonight. Do they have their proper permits to build that station there? And if so, leave them alone. Leave them alone.

» The other thing about northeastern part of Kershaw County, you look at the tax base that's up there. We pay a tremendous amount of taxes to Kershaw County. Those farm taxes, buildings that we all have on our farms, we pay Kershaw County a lot of money each year. We just got through paying Kershaw County a lot of money. And for one other thing I'd like to tell you. Where do you have about one more minute? The Cal Maine facility that's located up there is not just an egg producing farm. That is the largest egg producing farm in the United States of America. The largest. And they pay a considerable tax base also. Now, that fire station needs to be left alone. It needs to get in gear and it needs to be built. And that's my opinion of it. And leave them people alone.

» Now, if you've got a permitting problem, then you need to address it. But you need to leave the contractor alone and let him build the fire station. Thank you. Thank you, Donnie. The next person signed up is Jeff Maddox. Good evening, counsel. Good to see you guys. Hey, Jeff. There appears to be some controversy about the firehouse and all. And I think it really comes down to procedure. How much was the public involved in the decision in the placement of the firehouse on that piece of property? Were there any kind of plans shown as options or anything like that that could have maybe avoided this kind of controversy and all? I don't know. That's just something for you guys to think about in the future if we move along.

» You guys are going to decide whatever you're going to decide at that point. The second thing is on Russell's resolution. I've been told many times resolutions don't mean anything and all like when counsel recommended the shots and mask and all that. Some people voted for it just because it was a resolution and it doesn't mean anything. So, you know, I understand this doesn't mean anything at all. But I think in the community at large there's all kinds of conversations about CRT and all this kind of stuff. I just want to make it clear I'm an abolitionist. I do not believe that in a free society the state should educate a free people. I don't think that happens.

» I think the progression historical record will show that since the Prussian system was introduced in the United States, we've seen a rise of tyranny of rights being destroyed and a decline in education. If we did a 8th grade test 100 years ago, I doubt many of the high school seniors could pass now. I have a hard time. That says a lot. The final thing I'd like to talk about is Santee Lynch's Council of Government is in two minutes holding a public hearing, public participation survey of our future. Right upstairs in room 207, if anybody care to figure out what these people are up to. That's the super Walmart of government largesse, whether it be state or federal government. That's how it comes in and funnels into your local area.

» That's where it comes with hoops and strings and all kinds of beautiful things. So I'm going to be leaving you guys because I can watch this on YouTube and I can't up there. So thank you guys. Thank you, Jeff. The next person that signed up is Jim Gatti. I think I have a hard time reading his name. Hello, counsel. Thank you for having me up here. Hey, Jim. I'm going to be short and sweet. I am the much maligned homeowner next door to the- Jim, put the microphone close to me. I am the much maligned homeowner next to the proposed firehouse. I first want to say that my wife and I are not opposed to having the firehouse built on the property.

» We are just concerned that it is so close to our home and I want to thank Katie and Jimmy Jones and Danny Templar for taking the concern of this whole issue. It has been built right on top of our house. So, you know, all we wanted was to maybe have it moved over a little bit. So it's not- it's a 24-hour facility, not so close to our home. It's disrupting our livelihood. We have to live there for the rest of our lives. We're planning on retiring there someday. So, you know, I know many people are saying that, you know, we don't want the firehouse. We do want the firehouse. I just want to just to stand up and say that our biggest concern was who made the decision to put it so close to our house. It's right on our property line.

» If it was placed another 100 yards over, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We just want to make sure that there's a buffer between the noise and everything that's going to go on at this firehouse with the 24-hour facility. That's all we're trying to do. We're not trying to halt and stop the fire home, the firehouse. So that's all I wanted to say. Hopefully you take into consideration our concerns. You know, we're not trying to stop this whole thing. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Madam Chairperson, one person signed up about 90 seconds late. Matthew Hutchinson. Okay. I'll allow it. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. You're welcome. Hey, Matt. I want to start out by saying nobody has ever once said we don't want a fire station built in Cassette. Never.

» We do want a fire station built. We need a fire station built. The firefighters deserve a new fire station and a good place to rest to run calls and sleep. I'm also a former firefighter. I'm an EMT. I responded to the call with the lady in Highway 1. I was actually one of the first ones there on the ambulance that day. I transported them. We actually flew one out on a helicopter. I fought fire with a couple of guys in the back of the room here. Will has taught a lot of my fire academy classes. I'm a fireman. I'm also a citizen of Cassette, a concerned citizen. And I like to help my neighbors out when they need it. In the three years that this 12 acres of property was built, the talk was always that the fire station was going to go next to the Dollar General.

» Now, I guess technically it is next to the Dollar General. There just happens to be, what, eight acres in between it with zero acres in between a household residence. My question is, where was the building in the original plans that went to DHEC three years ago when the perk test was requested? When were the plans finalized that put the station next to the house? Were there alternative plans presented? Who signed the approval? Who gave the green light to start this project and start cutting four acres worth of trees down? Was county council notified that this was starting? Who decided to cut down the four acres of trees and leave no green space? Who, when county council has seen this with your own eyes? Would you approve of this fire station if it were next to your house? I highly doubt it.

» Now, the operations of a station, I'm sure you're going to have Chief Glover up here to answer these questions. Have them go through what the operations are of a fire station from 8 a.m. until 8 a.m. I'll tell you, they run every single piece of equipment in that station that has a motor on it. Would you want that next to your house? The only thing we're asking for here is options for us to pause for a second, take a breath. Let's see if there's a better option, something else we can do. Now, I hear that we've already spent $400,000 on the construction of this project, and everybody gets upset about that, that we're spending money. It's going to cost thousands of dollars. But you all just applauded this young man who said we need more baseball fields in Kershaw County.

» Some of you were talking about building a $14 million baseball complex in the center of Camden just a few weeks ago. What are we doing here? Was the original plan of this fire station for it to be four bays three years ago? Or was it going to be a small rural fire station that would fit next to the Dollar General? Then when the money was found, $2.5 million I think it was, did they decide, somebody decided to build a larger station. Now, with all that land that's there, you could have easily, nobody will ever convince me, you could have easily moved it over a few hundred yards, put it in the middle of the property. You would have plenty of space to build training grounds for the firemen, to train all day, and it's going to be a nice station.

» I guarantee you they're going to be holding classes there for statewide classes. People will come from all over the state to have classes there, and that's great. I want to thank Jimmy Jones, Katie Gwynn, and Brant Thomason for answering my phone calls and addressing our concerns up in Cassette. I really appreciate that. Let's see if I have anything else. How much time do I have, Mr. Gabel? You have a little less than a minute. Oh, okay. I want to finish up with the school stuff. Parents need to take more control of their parents and their kids in general. I advocate for homeschooling. Get your kids out of the government schools, and I'll leave that at that. But all we're asking for is options, Mr. Chairman. Move it over a couple hundred yards, a hundred yards.

» What can we turn the station a different direction? Whatever. That's all we want, because we were kind of blindsided by this. I just drove down the road, and I saw four acres of trees gone, and there were supposed to be green space left. Maybe the trees weren't pretty enough, I guess, and somebody decided to cut them down. It didn't fit into their drawing. I don't know. I don't know. And then if we do move it, what are we going to do with that land that's there now that is barren? Thank you, sir. Thank you, Matt. That concludes the sign-up list. Thank you, Mr. DuBose. Thank you to everyone that signed up and spoke to council tonight. All right. We're moving on to the adoption of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion to adopt this agenda? Make a motion that we adopt the agenda, Madam Chair.

» Mr. Tucker makes a motion and a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cato. Is there any discussion on tonight's agenda? All right. And I'll call for the vote. Adoption of tonight's agenda. All in favor? Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Jones, myself, Mr. Tucker, and opposed? Mr. Brazel? I didn't hear you. I didn't see your hand. Sorry. Oh, okay. Mr. Brazel in favor. Okay. I'll start this way. All right. I'll begin to our public presentation for tonight's meeting, and Mr. Tomlinson, I'm going to give you the floor to introduce your guest and tell us a little bit about it. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to welcome Lowell Coper. Lowell is a good friend of mine, a veteran, an American. He was former Army, still active and works in some capacity. He's the chairman of the Akron County Veterans Council.

» He's going to present, as you can see, those banners right there as something honoring the veterans that he started in Aiken County. I appreciate your time, and thank you for being here, Lowell. I'm not going to be short. Luckily for me, I get to talk about veterans, and everybody loves veterans except probably our enemies. So what we have here is, as you said, I'm the chairman of the Akron County Veterans Council. This is a project that we started in 2019 in Aiken that came from us from some neighbors up north, and essentially, Aiken County is home to 18,000 veterans. We're a proud group of individuals. I know there are a number of veterans in front of me on the council, and there's obviously a number of veterans behind me, and Kershaw County is no different than in Aiken in that aspect.

» So this is a project that we started through our council, and if you guys look in those folders that I gave you, if you were to stand up a council, you can see my logo is on the front. My county council logo is on the front. That's something that your council could adopt, and that's what yours would look like on the inside if you were to go with something along our line. And we're working with the state to adopt that across the entire state, so all councils kind of fall under one umbrella and one branding. So getting back to us, this is something that we started in 2019. These go up twice a year. They go up around Memorial Day all the way through the summer, through the 4th of July, and then they go back up again around Veterans Day. We already had a banner program in Aiken.

» It was a character banner program that was started by our late mayor, Fred Cavanaugh, and it lasted for probably 20 years. So we were able to, one, capitalize off of that because there were already brackets downtown. And I've been through Camden a number of times. I know some of the towns like Camden, can't speak of the others, have things that they put up, seasonal decorations and stuff like that to decorate the downtown festive, that kind of stuff. So we capitalized off of those banner brackets that were already there. And this can be tailored.

» So if you already have something in place, I would recommend for the fiscal side of it, the responsible fiscal side of it, is that you work within the banner brackets that you already have if you have something like this, and you can tailor your banners to that size. Ours are this size because that's what we were working with. These are ones out of Aiken. The North Augusta ones are similar in size, but they vary just a little. And you can only tell if they're side by side. What you have in front of you is, what I see on the front of this is two veterans and you guys see different veterans on the back. On the front here, I'll just highlight a couple of these guys. So John Wilson is on the right, as the folks behind me can see.

» That picture that was submitted was actually the cover of Life Magazine when he served in Vietnam. That's an actual Life Magazine article cover, magazine cover. And that was submitted to us as the council. All the information that you guys have on the left side of your folder is basically the workings of the banner and how it operates in Aiken County. So we have the council has its own website. The Aiken County Veterans Council were a nonprofit established with the state of South Carolina in 1996. We've been operating since 1992. You could go on our website to the hometown heroes banner project and you click on that and it runs you through everything. It's the middle of your DD 214, which is where we verify that you actually did serve.

» And on that note, I'd like to show you Walter Chalchowski. You guys see Richard Chalchowski on the back, but his father is on the front. And that's not a typo. This gentleman served in World War II. Korea didn't fit, so we put Vietnam on there, but he served in all three. He also served in the United States Army, the United States Navy, and the United States Air Force after retiring out of the Air Force of 33 years of service. Brent and I were kind of joking that I see that now and I'm like, stolen valor maybe, but that is real.

» And that's why we require a DD 214 to make sure that these are legit and not just to prevent someone from putting something up there, but to protect these gentlemen and these women who have served our nation so that their banner won't be tarnished by somebody else's that shouldn't be up there, calling theirs into question if somebody else's is called out. So that's one of the things that we do as far as the vetting portion of it. So you submit the DD 214. You can mail it in. You can do everything online. You can pay for it online. If you guys were to, you know, basically start your own without a council and you guys did it through this council, the county council. I realize you guys have a website. People pay taxes there. We have a pay platform just like you do on our website.

» So this is something that this council could take on if you wanted to. We started it in 2019. Each side, we charge $85 per veteran to be on here. We pay $85 for the entire banner. So for every banner that we produce, we make $85. And since 2019, since we've been doing this, we've raised $15,000 that we can use for veteran projects in our community. The speaking of the Chachowski banner on the back is Richard Chachowski. We refer to him as Dick Chachowski. He's a very active member of our community. The reason I want to highlight this banner is, as I tell people who aren't from South Carolina, who don't have the good fortune of living in our state, our state is very unique in the fact that we have veterans that have served this country all the way back to the Revolutionary War.

» You know, we stand where freedom was won, as a friend of mine likes to remind everyone. And Kershaw is probably no different than Aiken County in the fact that there are a number of families that have a ton of veterans that have served. And so as you see here, you have father and son on a banner, and they've actually served together in Vietnam. So I have no doubt that that will be the same, probably here. You'll have a mother and daughter, a son and daughter, or son and daughter, a father and daughter, that kind of thing. Brothers. We have a number of banners in Aiken that are family members. I have a picture of our Lieutenant Governor standing downtown with me. She's a big supporter of the banners.

» And we just happened to take a picture in front of our police chief's father-in-law, who just happens to be on the banner that we stopped and got a photo with. So it runs through the community. I know that Kershaw County is a proud veteran community, just like Aiken is. You may not have the number of veterans that we do, but nonetheless, they're just as proud. And so I thought I would bring this. I mentioned it to Councilman Tomlinson a while back. It's been something successful for us. It just kind of going back to some of the stuff people were talking about behind me with just the education thing. We also use this as an education project, not so much in the aspect of it actually being a curriculum, but people get to see this. There's a lot of quiet folks.

» There's probably some people sitting behind me that served this great nation, and you all don't know that. Maybe some of the people sitting next to them don't even know that they've served. You know, Congressman Tomlinson knows I served, but I don't have a banner in my downtown. I just prefer not to have one. But there are some people that just quietly go on about their business, much like our World War II veterans. And this is a way for us to showcase essentially who your neighbors are and what they do and, you know, the great community you live in and the folks that have helped make it a great community, even though you don't know that. So I appreciate your time and allowing me to come and speak for you. If you have any questions, I'm more than happy to answer them.

» I put a lot of information in there. There's a link on the bottom, that hyperlink. If you punch that in, that is our website. My card, business cards in there as well. It's got our email and our website on there. It's a very informative website. I answer a lot of your questions, but while I'm here, please feel free. Mr. Cobert, thank you for being here and thank you for your service. Yes, ma'am. You as well. Yeah, thank you very much. Ms. Cobert, it's really nice to meet you. Were you Special Forces? Yes, sir, I was. I wasn't. You know, I won't be on a banner. I was a clerk typist, but I was drafted. I did win the lottery. I was number 41. But I'm very, very proud to have you here tonight. Thank you. Councilman, what's your name? Brantley, he told me. Thank you, Jimmy.

» Thomas, he told me about this program. And I'll be honest with you. I said, okay, another presentation. I'm a veteran, but you hear a lot of presentations. This got me excited because, and I tell you why, we do have some hometown heroes here. Madam Chair, if I'm not online, could I ask all the veterans to stand up? Yes, absolutely. Even up here. You already got enough to cover downtown. Yeah, exactly. Your point was made right there. You're exactly right. Well, I just want to say thank you, Councilman Thomason. And I want to thank you, Mr. Cooper, for being here. I am very interested in moving forward with this and supporting your cause. And God bless you, my friend. Thank you.

» I'd just like to share one last thing real quick, and then I'll let these folks get on with what they're here for. Going back to this. So we have in our downtown of downtown Aiken, Aiken is, I think, probably somewhat like Camden in a sense that it's a place where a lot of people come to retire. So we have a lot of assisted living communities, and we do some stuff with them as well. And one of these banners that stands out for me is a lot of the veterans that are on these, it's their families that come to us to surprise the veteran, and they don't even know. So we do a lot of helping them go through the monotony of finding paperwork sometimes that they can't find because maybe dad doesn't want to give it up kind of thing.

» But one of the assisted living communities in our downtown, we actually did a presentation for a World War II veteran. Oh, man, that's hard to talk about. He was in a wheelchair. He's in there, and his family tells us, like, hey, you know, we got this banner for him, blah, blah, blah. It means a lot to him. Well, he didn't know anything about it, and we were able to put it right in front of that assisted living community. And we got the newspaper involved, and we wheeled him out. And it was funny, and it was very heartwarming because we're standing there talking to him, and he's talking to his son. And as they're talking, we're just kind of standing there.

» He's kind of looking at us like, what are all of you doing here? And his son's like, oh, what's that up on the pole there, Pop? And he kind of looks up, and it's a picture of him in uniform from World War II. And just seeing the look on some of these people's faces and hearing the stories from the families has made it more than worthwhile. Far, far more than any dollar amount that we could use as a fundraising project and all that kind of stuff. Just the stories that we hear from the families has made it, you know, worthwhile in its sense. So, and I think that, you know, easily represented or replicated, if you will, in a place like Kershaw County. So, thank you. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Mr.

» Cobert, who did you partner with? Did you go to the county or the city? Oh, so what we do-- What was your process? You came up with this idea and then-- We just did it on our own. Oh, okay. So, yeah. But with that being said, it's not going to work without participation from the city. Right. Because they're like, you know, I'm pretty sure these guys in uniform here will probably pull you off a pole if you just start trying to hang your own banners. I won't do that. So, we have partnered with the cities over the years. And now it's gotten so-- the partnership is so seamless that they actually store the banners. We've created bags that they stay in. And they put them up and take them down. We're out there with them just to say thank you when they do it.

» And we kind of even go as far the-- we have a chair for each thing that we do throughout the year. And the chairperson that handles this, she goes out and she marks down like, you know, Jimmy Jones is on the corner of this street and this street. And then she sends emails out to all the folks on file to let them know where their banner is. So, it doesn't work without city participation. Right. So, you know, we have public safety is what we refer to our law enforcement as. But the city workers and the public safety folks, they're really the ones that make it happen because they're the ones putting them up and taking them down. No problem. All right. Any other questions or comments? I'd too like to say I think it's an amazing project.

» Certainly, probably the biggest reason that I'm here is because my grandfather is a veteran and my father is a veteran. My grandfather was a World War II veteran, landed five beaches. And just as a little kid sitting and listening to those stories and they were interesting then. Now they're amazing. So, I think this program is incredible. Thank you for coming. Yes, sir. Look forward to helping and participating in it. Madam Chair. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Baker. I would like to thank you for your service and for this project. My dad was a Vietnam veteran, Purple Heart recipient. My grandfather was a World War II veteran. Many family members and friends in my family are veterans. And I highly respect our veterans. And I really appreciate you doing this. Yes, sir. Thank you.

» Lowell, thank you so much for coming out and presenting. This was absolutely incredible. You know, Kershaw County, we have a long history dating back to the Revolutionary War of people who have fought to be what we are today. I know we have over 6,000 veterans. It'd be an honor to be able to recognize twice a year and have the heroes protect our freedom up on a pole. We'll work with the city. Lowell has graciously volunteered to come down and be a liaison in the process of setting up a Kershaw County Veterans Council. And going forward, this project would cost nothing. It would only be able to raise funds so we could actually do more veteran projects. So thank you all. Really appreciate your time. Yes, sir. That's awesome. Thank you for being willing to. Yes, ma'am.

» We've got the playbook. We're more than happy to pass it off. Okay. Thank you. That's great. Thank you. Approval of minutes. We'll approve January 10th, 2023. This was a regularly scheduled county council meeting. Is there a motion to approve the minutes? I'll make a motion. And a second. Second. Mr. Braz will second. Mr. Cato motions. Any discussion on the minutes? Madam Chair. Mr. Tucker. I was in absence. I will be abstaining. Mr. Tucker will abstain. Any other discussion? All right. All in favor of approving the minutes for January 10th? Indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Brazel, myself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. Moving on to the special called meeting January 12th, 2023. Can I have a motion to approve these minutes? So moved. Mr. Tomlinson. And a second. Second. Mr.

» Brazel, second. Any discussion on the special meeting minutes? Once again, Madam Chair, I will be abstaining. Mr. Tucker, abstaining. And we will vote. All those in favor to approve the special meeting minutes? Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Jones, myself, and Mr. Brazel. All right. Next agenda item is a resolution. Resolution by Kershaw County Council to express support for parental rights in the education and upbringing of children. This was placed on the agenda by Councilman Russell Brazel, and I will read it. A resolution by Kershaw County Council expressing support for parental rights in the education and and upbringing of children.

» Whereas, Kershaw County Council believes that the public policy of Kershaw County government, the public education system, and other governmental entities should be to support and protect the fundamental rights related to human sexuality. And, whereas, Kershaw County Council believes that classroom discussion or instruction by school personnel or third parties on human sexuality is not appropriate in kindergarten through grade five or in any other manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students, regardless of age or grade.

» And, whereas, Kershaw County Council believes the public education system and governmental entities should not allow children to access discussion, instruction, or materials on human sexuality without express parental knowledge and consent. And, whereas, Kershaw County Council recommends the public education system and governmental entities that engage in discussion or instruction on human sexuality adopt policies and procedures that will assure children are not exposed to such discussion or instruction absent expressed parental knowledge and consent.

» And, whereas, Kershaw County Council believes the recommendations set forth herein are critical in assuring the fundamental rights of parents to control a child's exposure to discussion, instruction, and written materials related to human sexuality are not abridged or infringed upon. Now, therefore, be it resolved by Kershaw County Council that Kershaw County Council hereby expresses its strong support for the rights of parents in the education and upbringing of their children, and further recommends and encourages the public education system and other governmental entities to adopt policies and procedures that will prevent children from access or exposure to discussion, instruction, or written materials related to human sexuality absent express parental knowledge and consent.

» The second page is the signature page. This was proposed by Councilman Brazel. And, Mr. Brazel, I will give you the floor to make a motion. Thank you. I'd like to make a motion to adopt this resolution. Motion to adopt the resolution. Is there a second? I'll second. Mr. Tomlinson, second. All right. Leading into discussion. Mr. Brazel, if you'll lead our discussion and just let us know or start off by letting us know the intent and the purpose of this resolution. Okay. Absolutely. The intent is to keep children children. So, it's been brought to my attention and I think several other of our attention over the course of the last year that in some of our public places such as libraries, books have been found that are targeting four to eight year olds regarding human sexuality.

» And, basically, this is my response. This is my response that the parents should have the rights as to what their children can access. These books were found in the children's section. Tried to handle it quietly. I was told that everything was fine and that's the way it should be. So, I feel strongly that children should be kids. They should be worried about playing in the dirt. They should be worried about baseball, pricycles. It's not the government's job to impress upon them their agenda. And, this is a strong statement. And, some may say, well, it does nothing. Well, it allows me to express how I feel in a resolution as well as the co-signers, whoever would like to co-sign this.

» I feel like the government needs to stay out of parents' rights to raise their children the way they see fit. They shouldn't impose upon them their thoughts. And, I think it's well written. Mr. DuBose's son, John, helped me formulate this and he did a fantastic job. I really appreciate everybody's support. Whether you like it or, you know, some that may not like it, that's okay. But, this is something that was heavy on my heart and I needed to get it off my heart. So, here we have it. Thank you, Mr. Brazel. Any other discussion? Yeah, Madam Chairman. I got an email earlier this morning that Mr. Kahn, I was on the front page of the paper with my name on the resolution and been fielding calls all day about it.

» Councilman Brazel, I think has spent a lot of time in this and I've received, you know, support calls and calls against that. You know, and correct me if I'm wrong, I feel that, you know, your intent was not to put down our school district administrators or teachers with this resolution. Correct? I don't see how anyone could be offended if they would just want their children to be protected at such a sensitive age. Certainly not my intent to put anyone down, only to protect the children in their best interest. Yep, and some of the calls I had today talked about, you know, what the school district does and does not do according to this based upon the resolution. And so I just wanted to kind of give my thoughts since I got a little front time chronicle paper. But thank you to Mr.

» Kahn for making that right. He went above and beyond to correct the mistake. So thank you. And that's all I got. Mr. Cato. I just want to reiterate what Mr. Brazel just said. This was not in any way directed my part, any teacher or the school district in any way. I also believe that the parents should have the right as to how to bring up their children. And it shouldn't be shoved in their children's faces at such an early age. If their parents decide that they want to teach their children or have their children taught this material at that young of age, then so be it. But it should not be forced on any child. That's why I'm signing this resolution today. Thank you. Mr. Jones. If I can, I'm just, with all due respect to my colleagues, I'm a little bit confused. Has anyone, Mr.

» Brazel, has anyone reached out? Did you talk to any members of the school district about this? I talked to Mr. Billy Smith this morning. This morning. Okay. You know, we talk about parents having a right. Parents do have a right. Our school district is doing a great job. And we talk about, here's where I'm confused. Let me back up. I'm trying to get my thought process. We talked, we said up here just a few minutes ago that this is something about the library and maybe a book in the library that was there. Is that what initiated this? Is it likely? You know, I wrote the resolution and I want to leave the resolution as stated. I don't want to get off into specifics. So then the resolution does, the resolution says what it says. So it's pointed at the school district. No, sir.

» That's not what I said. I won't have anyone putting words in my mouth. No, no, no, no, please. It's written the way it's written. I don't need to put words. Let's not, let's not try to drag this into some, something that it's not. Okay. Well, so, so the resolution is for, is for who is it directed to? I'm reading it that it's directed to our school district. Ms. Gwen, be more happy to reread it if Mr. Jones so desires. I don't need it reread, but I appreciate that. Listen, I think our school district is doing a great job. They don't force anything on the children. They're not being exposed to anything that the parents don't know about.

» And, you know, I know there was a situation a while back that there was a conversation about a book at the library that was, it was in an area that children could get a hold to it. And I know Mrs. Gwen, Madam Chair went to the library. She spoke with the librarian and they moved it to the adult section. You know, I, I just, I don't know. I also talked to some of the school folks this morning and they hadn't heard anything about this till this morning. And I think they reached out and called first to get a response back. I, I don't know what I'm voting for here. I can't support this because I wasn't called. I was, it wasn't explained to me.

» And I'm reading something that after talking with our, some teachers and after talking with some folks at the school, that it appears that this is directed at school, even though maybe it's not, but it appears that it is the way I read it. And therefore I can't, I can't support it because I just don't think we have that problem here. I think our teachers, I think our, they're underpaid, they're overworked. They take care of our children. They're doing a fantastic job on it. And let me make one thing clear. I'm, I'm a papa and I'm a dad. I have eight grandchildren, four children, and we all are. And I love my children. And, uh, I would trust my children being in Kershaw County school district any time of the day. And, uh, you know, my wife is out there.

» God bless and bless she's not on the school board anymore. Um, she, uh, we had some battles, but, but the thing of it is, is that, uh, I know firsthand by being involved with it there, I've seen the care and the love that they give them. And they, they will protect our children. And what worries me is that we, we, we pass this. It's emotional. I feel, and this is me talking. I feel like a shooting from the hip that was explained to me exactly who it's directed to. Well, the school system does feel like it's directed towards them if you read it. And I don't think, if Mr. Browser says that wasn't his intent, I believe him. He's an honorable person. I, I, I have much respect for him, but I don't agree with, with this. And I'll, I'll tell Mr. Cato and Mr. Thompson and Mr.

» Tucker and you know, Mr. Browser and Madam Chair, I, I, if I'm the only one to vote no, I'm gonna vote no. But that, that, that's, that's why. But this concept, I, we all want our children protected. But I, I think, uh, this is unnecessary. I don't think we have a problem. And, uh, thank you for your time, folks. Mr. Jones, I may add that my wife taught for 15 years at Kershaw County Public Schools. I agree with all of your points exactly. Thank you. And I think the absolute world of your beautiful wife. Yeah. And you. I appreciate that. But, um, this, this is to clarify, um, not targeted. I talked to Billy this morning. He and I are friends and we clarified that between us. I just, I don't want to get on some rabbit trail in public. This is unnecessary. Thank you. Mr. Tucker.

» Madam Chair. Thank you. I sat here and I listened to, um, well, the resolution as it was read. And, um, the discussion. And, um, my problem, uh, with the resolution as a whole is that, um, although it states exactly what Mr. Brazel feels personally, and he wants to express it, and I do respect that, um, we have other bodies of government that takes care of our libraries and the books and things, such as, uh, the librarian. Ms. Amy's here. I understand that they moved the books from that location to a more responsible location. Um, we have the library board. I'm not sure whether this issue was taken to the library board or not, but that's an avenue that you could address. And, of course, you got the state library board that gives guidelines to our local libraries.

» Along with that, you have, uh, the school board, which has been discussed. I was not elected, uh, to govern the educational part of our citizens and our children for Kershaw County. I am elected to govern Kershaw County. And for those reasons, I will not be supporting this resolution. I'm not into supporting feel-good resolutions and crossing or overreaching or overarching my authority. Thank you. Ms. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Um, Mr. Brazel, I would like to ask you the questions, um, that a citizen brought up. Um, I think we have the purpose or intent, um, for the protection of children. Mr. What is the expected outcome? Yes, I wrote that question down.

» The expected outcome is to, to hopefully get a hearty review of all things Kershaw County to make sure that the books that are being placed in our libraries, whether it be a school or a county library, are appropriate and age appropriate. Ms. Okay. Um, and why is this necessary? Is there something specific that happened? Mr. Yes, God laid it on my heart. Ms. Okay. And can you define human sexuality that pertains to this, what you meant by that? Mr. I think that's an unnecessary question. Human sexuality is, um, is something that could, could be discussed and debated for the next two or three hours, I suppose, in this day and time. Ms. Okay. Um, resolutions and, uh, Mr. DuBose, please correct me if I'm wrong, should be approval of an act.

» Um, I, I do think it would have been more appropriate to do a proclamation, which any councilmen can do on their own. Um, I would like to extend the question, not to Mr. Brazel, but to the entire council. Um, did anyone contact anyone in the public education field in Kershaw County to discuss this resolution? Mr. I asked my wife about it. Ms. Okay. I, I did this morning. Ms. Okay. I did, I did this morning because I didn't have any, I mean, nobody contacted me. I didn't have any questions. I mean, I had a lot of questions on it. And I was just trying to find out, do we have a problem? And of course, they, they were taken back by this, to be honest with you. Thank you. Ms. Okay. And there, and there we go again, making it something that it's not.

» Pushing the envelope to make something that really isn't into something that it, trying to push, put something into, into something that's not. I can't understand for the life of me while we're continuing to talk about it. If this was a resolution that someone else put up, we, we'd be done. It'd be over. We'd be marching down the street and there'd be a, a round of applause. Ms. We're still discussing it because I still have some questions. I think that the reason people think it's about the school is because the first line in every paragraph is the public education system and governmental entities. It doesn't say anything a lot about the library. It says public education system. That will be a governmental entity. Ms. Amy is here.

» Amy, would you mind answering a question about material review? We also have some school leaders, school board members here, educators here. We have two charter schools in Kershaw County that I also contacted to just kind of weigh in on this problem. But as far as book circulation and material appropriateness, what is the process? Ms. So I think that an important distinction to make is an understanding about the library collection in general. Ms. So Mr. Brazel's concern about the books that he saw. Mr. It's not my concern. It's concern of my constituents. Ms. I understand. I'm addressing specifically your concern in this situation. Ms. Okay. Amy has the floor. Okay. So we're going to let her finish and then ask her questions afterwards. Ms.

» So your concern and your constituents' concerns are valid. So that's not under contesting. The library collection, as part of our collection development policy, covers the entirety of the county. So part of our express proclamation with that policy is that we represent everyone in the community, which would include people who would find these books appropriate, and that also we include books that are controversial and may be opposed. Ms. The idea with that goes back to the first amendment. It goes back to rights that we're protecting, which is that we have the openness to a variety of viewpoints, and that even disagreeing with something is important and something that we should have access to. Ms.

» And that limiting that access is a form of censorship because public libraries are meant to give access to people who might not otherwise have access. So it's important to have a wide variety of materials. So people may not like everything that's there. That would be absolutely impossible. Ms. We do not seek out to express only one viewpoint. And there are a variety of parental styles. There are a variety of ways that people parent. And there are people that feel that these books would be appropriate. That's why they remained in the collection. But we did consider very carefully with a very extended review process what would be appropriate for those books, which is why two of them were changed from the general section where children were to other sections.

» There's also another policy, which is the circulation policy. And that dictates who can check out what and for how long. As it is now, the circulation policy includes two different types of cards. There's adults who can check out anything. And there are juvenile cards. And a juvenile card is for someone who is zero to 18. They have to require parental approval for those cards. My board is concerned about parents being involved in the choices and the decisions and the reading life of their child. There is nothing that the library wants more than parental involvement. And the 30 years of my career has been spent by and large trying to encourage parental involvement in the reading lives of their children.

» So with that in mind, we're considering other measures like the possibility of parents saying we only want our children to check out juvenile material as an example. Or letting parents know who may not be aware of the contemporary issues that are pretty prominent. That there are material in the library that they might find objectionable and that they need to be actively involved in the reading selections of their children. That's something that we encourage. That's something that we've always encouraged. And by and large, if you go to the library and you witness what happens, it's not children finding material that's objectionable to them and damaging to them.

» It's families who are deeply engaged in their children's education, trying to encourage them to read, who are finding books like Good Night Moon and Snowy Day and Where the Wild Things Are. And not books that are exceptional, but cover issues that we are dealing with in society as a whole, issues that people might find relevant, might be pertinent to their lives, might be something that they would want to seek out on their own, not for their children's sake, but to find out what publishers are publishing. The idea with the library is that you have access to all those forms of information and that you do not exclude that because we believe in the ability of people to make their own choices and their own decisions and decide their own values in relation to themselves and their children.

» I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you so much. The problem is, is that the books in question were talking about human sexuality in a multitude of fashions in the age group was four to eight year olds and they were in the children's section. And when I took the books, you weren't working at the library at the time, when I took the books and I went through due process, I wasted a lot of time because the response I got was laughable. So forgive me for bringing this to light, but it is the way I feel. I feel strongly about protecting children at that young of an age from the sort of material that I saw and I just can't apologize for it. So as much as I appreciate the well-intended and very eloquent explanation, I still would just have to politely disagree.

» And I understand that and respect that as well. I am sorry that you found the response laughable. I can assure you that we take the response of any reconsideration very seriously. The documentation that I have that met that response includes looking at a variety of reviews, looking at the circulation of those copies, looking at how other experts view those materials, looking at other libraries that held those materials, and consulting other staff members and seeking out lots of opinions. That was a big issue for my interim director who does not have a library background to tackle. So you certainly put her to the test. She did a wonderful job. She did a wonderful job. Absolutely.

» So I think what I'm interpreting when you say laughable might be, and I appreciate this response, that you weren't satisfied. Absolutely not satisfied, correct. I understand that. This is an emotional, and I think also I would like to acknowledge that although we may disagree in how this outcome happened, we all care about children. No one will tell me that I don't care about children. I have devoted 30 years of my life to helping children. I know you care about children. I know everyone in this room does. So we all have the same mission. We may differ in how it plays out, but I acknowledge that this is a deeply emotional and important issue for you. And I can assure you that it was taken seriously.

» The next step in this, understanding that you feel like you wasted your time, but there is an important process with this. This is a policy that was approved by a board, which was elected by council, which is part of our legislation. So the next step in this process would be to appeal to the board. So you have not completed the process if you are not satisfied with this. If you feel as though that might be more waste of your time, I apologize and feel sorry for that. But I can assure you that my library board would take that very seriously. Well now, I would have to say they were knowledgeable of the situation, were they not? They were knowledgeable of the situation. The next step, if you're dissatisfied, and this is in the letter.

» I'm not saying you didn't read the letter, but in the letter, the next step in the process, which is also documented in the collection development policy, is that if you're dissatisfied with the steps taken by the library director, that you can appeal that to the library board. And that you would request to put on the agenda or schedule a meeting for the library board to address the issue specifically. I very much appreciate that. Obviously, I had a different avenue and this was it. So, thank you. You're welcome. Ms. Amy, what was the outcome of the board's decision for the reconsideration of the material? And how many books was it? There were four books. Okay.

» And so, two of the books were about, one was a book about consent, which was, from my perspective, and I really, I don't think this would be necessarily an appropriate place to dig into the merits of these books. Okay, no problem. But one was a book about a child having respect and ownership of their bodies. The other one was a book about understanding differentiation in gender. Those were both picture books. So, I want to explain also with picture books. Picture books, the primary objective with a picture book, which is used for many things, but what we hope is that that encourages children to love reading. It's a bonding time with parents. It's something I hope we've all experienced. It familiarizes children with reading and gets them ready to start school. That's its objective.

» But there are other times when children are dealing with difficult situations. Maybe it's grief. Maybe it is some sort of other difficult divorce might be another situation. If there's a situation where a child has a family member who is dealing with gender dysmorphia, or someone in their class, a book can also be a tool for a parent to use to help negotiate and explain what might be a difficult conversation. So, books are tools and they're valuable in that right as well. There are some parents who may be going through situations like this or other situations where a picture book at that level would be helpful and appropriate. It may not feel that way for you. You might have a different reaction.

» But our consideration within the collection development policy would be, does this book have merit and is it appropriate and relevant for someone in the community? So, that was the other book that was moved to the parenting collection because it was viewed as a book that would probably be better negotiated with the input of a parent. The other books are in the picture book collection, which is where parents go with their children. These are children who are not reading yet. So, most of the interactions and the transactions that happen in selecting books are with children who do not read. So, almost all of those books are already vetted and reviewed by parents, more so than in any other section of the library. So, it's very rare for a child to go into that section without a parent.

» In fact, if you're under 12, you're not supposed to be in the library without a parent. That's really not because we're scared of books. It's more because we're scared of other people. But that's the policy. So, children are with their parents in these situations. So, the other two books that were in question, one was it was a nonfiction book about a child who was transitioning to a different gender in high school who had caused controversy about use of restrooms. So, that was a nonfiction book that presented that story. And then the other one was a picture book also about pronouns. And that one was kept in the picture book collection.

» My point of view with those books and the danger they might possess in a public library is what I see practically speaking in those sections is that parents, when they're looking at picture books, when they're choosing those books at that age, they're already heavily involved in the process. And if a child came in and chose a book from that section without parental involvement, they probably are not at an age when they would be reading. So, it would be unlikely that there would be much damage from that. But it was a picture book. So, if they weren't reading, they could look at the pictures, of course. The pictures are of children. The pictures are not sexualized. At ages four to eight.

» I think we could probably talk about this all night, but this audience probably would like to see us move on. Thank you so much for the work that you do. Thank you. You do a great job. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you. Ms. Amy, I have one more question. Are these books available on the mobile book fair that visits the schools? They might be. I don't know. I don't handle that. Okay. So, that would be a question for the schools. Okay. But usually, that's handled through Scholastic. Okay. So, yeah, that would be a school district question. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Tucker. Ms. Amy, I just want to say thank you again for you and your board because I know how you're only 35 and you've been doing this for 30 years, so you're doing a very good job.

» Those first few years were very difficult. Yes. Thank you. But I know your history and I know how you have given and poured your heart out here in Kershaw County as you have continued to develop your experience in education and being a good librarian. So, I say to you hats off, kudos, and thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Any more questions for Ms. Amy? Thank you, Amy, for being here. So, I absolutely support parental rights in education. My hang up is that we are not the school board. So, I think this is appropriate discussion for a school board that's already a governing body to handle this. It's my understanding from talking to school board members and superintendents and heads of school that there's already policies in place to restrict access to this information.

» There's an entire state law on it. Section 59.3250, notice to parents, right to have child exempt from comprehensive health education program classes, which is where sexual education fall under. It mandates that the local school board and schools develop method of notifying parents. So, to my knowledge, that is not an issue in Kershaw County after speaking with the education leaders in our county. I do think the resolution caught people off guard. And if we are worried about the safety of our children, that's a huge concern, a concern of that magnitude, I think should first be a conversation with the school board and the educators in our community. A resolution without ever sitting down and talking to them about said problem. I don't know that's effective.

» I don't think it forges a good relationship with the public education system. So, I will not be able to support the resolution tonight. Any other comments or discussion? All right, with that, we'll go to a vote. All in favor of approving, adopting a resolution by Kershaw County Council expressing support for parental rights in the education and upbringing children. Signify by raising your hand. Mr. Brazel. And all opposed. Mr. Tucker, myself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. And thank you, gentlemen, for the discussion. Right, moving on to ordinances. This will be our third reading of an amended and restated ordinance by Kershaw County Council determining rules and order. This was placed on the agenda by Jimmy Jones. We do have a couple of amendments. And Mr.

» DuBose, can you hand out those copies for everyone, please? Yeah, Madam Chair, I think first the order of business would be a motion to approve it. Thank you. And then the motion to amend would come subsequently. Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that we approve a third reading of the ordinance of the Kershaw County Council rules and order of business. All right. Motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Tomlinson, second. Okay. And into discussion. Thank you, Mr. DuBose. Well, there were some amendments that were introduced, I think, about a couple of us. Mr. DuBose has a handout, if he would, hand those out. And what I would like, Mr. DuBose, is to go over where the amendments are done into the handout and where the tabs are, if you would, please.

» Then you'll make a motion to amend? Yes, sir, I will. Yes, sir. But I want to get them the copies first, please. Okay. So right now we're in discussion for motion to approve. And Mr. Tucker indicates that I'm going to hand out a copy of the ordinance, which has proposed amendments in it. And just for clarification, the council members tabbed. And so we have yellow tabs on the three changes. And I'll tell you, the first change is just one word, which makes... Mr. DuBose, let them follow you, if you don't mind passing them out, please. Okay, I will. The second two we need to concentrate on. Right. Okay, thank you. I want them to have the same eyes you and I have. Thank you, sir. And Mr.

» DuBose, for a rules question, do we need to make a motion to amend the highlighted changes first? Can we discuss them without a motion on the floor? I think probably if Mr. Tucker could make the motion to amend in accordance with the handout. Yes, sir. I can make the motion to amend. And my motion would be make a motion to amend reinstated by Kershaw County determining rules and factors. The millage ordinance, this will be in section 3-1, be your first tab. The millage of Kershaw County millage shall be enacted no later than county council meeting at which the Kershaw County annual budget is enacted. Okay. And if you would go to section 4.2, which will be your next tab.

» Chairperson shall, and when required, execute on behalf of Kershaw County, of the county council, all ordinance resolutions, directives, bonds, and other official instruments or documents as required by council. As to an honorary proclamation or resolution, as to an event's organization or persons or statements of expression that is sponsoring council may be indicated supported by executing other and other council members may execute indicating the council members' support. Move over to section 5.1, which says the committees of council. Go down this, which says section, it's section B, number 8. That's being striking out, as you can see, all affairs to be the financial affairs of the county and industrial incentives. That has been striking from the second reading.

» And if you go down to number 8 and 9, I mean 9 and 10, let's do 9 first. You have highlighted, let's read that paragraph. After the proposed annual budget has been recommended by the finance committee and placed onto the agenda for a second reading, or in the event, no timely recommendation, the budget is then subject to proposed amendments, including the amount and purpose of the expenditures and source of funding by motions of county council members as provided for section 3.1b, or administrative proposals. And I'm happy to go into further detail on a lot of this. What most of this was about was not having the finance committee hold county council hostage because they don't enact or do what they're supposed to do. All right. Is there a second on the amendment? Hold on. One more.

» Oh, sorry. All right. Go down to 10. If you remember in item 10, we had 21 days for that committee to respond back to that council member. That's a long time. We'd like to reduce that down to 14 days. That's adequate time for that committee to respond back to a council member where that council member is not being strung out or on a delay tactic. So this is just to keep everybody in check and in accordance with what we're trying to achieve here. I do have one more on page one that the Madam Chair asked me to look into, and I did. If you go back to page one of the agenda, it's the article two where we have our times. You guys proposed moving the date from Wednesday to Thursday and it passed first and second reading. The question came up about having it at 4:00 p.m.

» on Thursday for the deadline. You're really only allowing the clerk to council one day to prepare this agenda. And I don't think that's fair to our clerk, our sitting clerk or our clerk to be in the future. He or she needs a little bit more time. So I'm asking that we also place in there a 1:00 p.m. cutoff time on that. And the media, when I spoke with them, is still okay with the 4:00 p.m. on Friday. So that actually gives the clerk a day and a half to prep the agenda to get it also perused by our chair. Mr. Tucker, just a second. Yes, ma'am. So adding an amendment to section 2.2 to change the second 4:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m. on Thursday. Correct. Okay. It's the Thursday 1:00 p.m. Is there a second on the additional amendment and the four presented prior? I'll second. Mr. Tomlinson, second.

» Now, Mr. Tucker, I'm going to give you the floor back to go into discussion on the changes. Okay. Of course, I was -- thank you, Mr. Brantley. I was telling you about why the 1:00 p.m. instead of the 4:00 p.m. So is there any questions on that that we have? Okay. If you flip back over to your first tab, which will be section -- it will be Article 4. It will go down to where it says chairperson. Is there any questions on why we added the honorary proclamations and resolutions? I think this is a great addition. And Mr. Brazel brought this to our attention. So in his resolution, he wanted to be added to the signature page. And that's not something that we ever did before. So I got with Mr. DuBose.

» And adding this allows any council member, if there's a passing resolution or proclamation, to add their name to indicate support. So I think that's a great addition. Okay. Flip over to your third tab. Mr. Jones, do you have something? Yeah, I do have some comments, but I want to -- Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It sounds like you're reading a book over there. I'm sorry. This is -- excuse me. I'm going to be polite. Let me say this. This is exactly -- with all due respect, this is exactly why I wanted these rules implemented. Because here it is, third reading, and I'm just now hearing about that. Yes, Mr. Jones, and I do hear you, but also why third reading is so important is for a guy like me.

» I had a family emergency that took place the first meeting of January, and I was not able to be here, nor on the phone. Mr. Tucker, if I may. Yes, sir. We all find the time to do the things we want to do. But let me just say this. And I respect your time. But let me say this. Let me finish. And I mean this for all due respect. I will support this tonight because it doesn't deal with any money. Well, I greatly appreciate it, but I still want to explain myself. So, of course, the chair called a call meeting. I work a full-time job. I cannot change my schedule like that, that rapidly. And I explained that to her that I would not be able to make it. And so with those two issues, I had no opportunity to participate in the process because I wasn't present. And so this is where we are now.

» And I, you know, I worry about committees holding this council hostage and not performing their job as well as council not doing what we all were elected to do, which is govern. Yes, sir, Mr. Jones. Do you know how many special call meetings I was not notified on? You retired, Mr. Jones. No, for the last eight years. You retired, Mr. Jones, for the last 20. Anyway. Thank you. I keep my wife working full-time. Okay. No, I don't keep her doing anything. I take that back. No, seriously, guys. Seriously. I hear what you're saying, Mr. Tucker, but, you know, I don't -- I do think the 4:00 time, that's something that Madam Chair, we had talked about, and I think it's a good time. But I can go along with that. You know, we've had to do the past, and it worked. It really did. It worked.

» I can support that. But are you going to continue to read on? Is there more? I'm just going to go to the last tab, just to make sure there's no questions. Okay. That's all. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Jones. So, of course, we've discussed, if you move over to page five, which is the last tab, all matters of financial affairs of the county striking through with the industrial incentives striking through. Where are you at, sir? Page five, number eight, paragraph eight. I got it. Okay. That was striking through, removed. And then in paragraph nine, added was the event of no timely recommendations. This is where, for some reason, the Finance Committee falls short on their duties. Council still has the authority to move forward. I like that. I like that, too.

» So, we're just adding that if, you know, the above sentence, I think it says the must, the Finance Committee must do something. Right. Well, in the event that they don't, in a timely manner, any council member can put that on the agenda item. I think that's a good -- that doesn't tie council's hands. Right. We don't want the Finance Committee holding up this body. I do like the strike in number eight, because I felt like industrial incentives gets into economic development realm, and I think it's just a good clarification. So, number 10, we just reduced the days from 21, as I stated earlier, down to 14. So, therefore, that it's a more timely response from the committee back to the council members. I just don't think you need to drag them out. That is all the amendments, sir and madam.

» And I appreciate everyone's support, if they can support this this evening. All right. Any other discussion? These are all technical clarifications, not changing the intent of the document or anything that was added. Mr. Jones, thank you so much for working so hard on this, and Mr. DuBose, as well. It was a group effort. Madam Chair, if I may, let me do my due diligence there, too. I thank all of you for the first and second reading, Mr. Jones and Mr. DuBose for spearheading this. Great document, and I thought that everyone had good valid points, and it's nothing that I'm trying to change the document. I was just trying to, with Madam Chair, clean up a few things that I saw that could be potential problems. If I may. Yes, Mr. Jones. Thank you, Madam Chair.

» Let me just say something about these rules of order. Madam Chair says we're going to follow these rules. If we're not going to follow them, we're not going to have them. And these rules will keep us transparent. They will keep us accountable. We won't be ambushed. Won't be kept in the dark. And I thank everyone for their cooperation on this, and I think this is a great piece of work. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. All right. I'll call for the vote. All in favor of approving the amended and restated ordinance by Kershaw County Council, determining rules and order of business. Indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Tucker, myself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. And all opposed? Mr. Brazel. And the ordinance passes.

» And I think that was on the amendment, wasn't it? You were voting on the amendment to the ordinance. Voting on the amendment. That was amendment. Yes. Now we have to pass the amended ordinance. Ordinance as amended. Right. So we got to vote on the amended ordinance, because that was the amendment we just passed. Okay. Call for the vote. So call for a vote for the amended and restated ordinance by Kershaw County Council, determining rules and order of business as amended. All in favor? Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Jones, and myself, and Mr. Tucker. And opposed? Mr. Brazel. Now the ordinance passes. These are our new rules, and Mr. DuBose, when do they go into effect? I think they're in effect now. Okay. Thank you. Folks, I have worked 16 years to see this council come transparent.

» And tonight, this has done it. I feel like if I leave tomorrow, something has been accomplished. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, members of the county council. You're welcome. All right. Going into new business. The first item for new business, this is discussion only, and it's regarding planning and zoning. Mr. Jones, you put this on the agenda, so I'm going to give the floor to you. Discussion only. We will not be taking a vote. Thank you. We can keep this brief. You know, staff came up to me and said, "Listen, folks want to know what do you need for tonight? They'll be glad to get you whatever you need." I said, "I don't need anything. I'm going to ambush them." But I was just joking. I'm not going to do that. I want to have a good, honest discussion. Here are my concerns. Mr.

» Templer, we deal every day. You know, I think we talk every day or every other day about planning and zoning. It's either the attitude towards the public. It's either the attitude when a contractor comes in, I get complaint after complaint after complaint. And I'm getting tired of it. And what I want to know is, and I know we're working on comprehensive planning. And let me say this too, I also know that the hands of our folks in that office are also tied in a lot of ways. But what I am not going to stand for is, I'm not going to be rude to you, and I'm not going to allow anyone to disrespect and be rude to me as well too. And that has happened, and that's not going to happen again. At least I'm not going to allow it. But I know that Councilman Brousel has worked. I've worked with him.

» He's worked with me. He's received calls. I think Mr. Thomason has probably received some. But I can tell you, something's broken somewhere. When I have contractors day after day after day, or I have citizens. I'll give you an example. One citizen called up and he said, "Well, I put my new garage on, but I was threatened to get ticketed or whatever written up because I had moved an 8x10 store shed 10 feet or 8 feet on my property." You know, and when you've got business folks in the community that their headquarters calls them up and says, "We've got a gift for you. A gift is a free sign." Well, that $3,000 free sign just turned out to be $10,000 for the business owner because under the new sign ordinance, they can't have the same size sign. But I believe Mr. Templer, you and Mr.

» Carpenter took care of that, that y'all were able to help take care of it. I tell you, another business that this gentleman opened up on Highway 1, he was told that he had to move a pole that was providing his utilities 10 feet. With that 10 feet moving a pole would have cost him $3,000. He said, "Mr. Jones, that'll all be $300,000. I'll just use my life savings to open up this business." And they're telling me either that or I don't open my doors. Well, you know, the administration got involved and they made it happen. I'm just saying, look, we're going through the comprehensive plan. I want to have a little bit more compassion when it comes to the folks that are coming in there utilizing our office. You know, I think we all can learn from Chick-fil-A.

» I can be having the worst day of my life, the worst day of my life, and walk in Chick-fil-A, and I'll tell you what, you're just, you know, make you feel 100% better because the people in there are just so polite. And I'm sure those kids are tired. I'm sure they're worn out. I'm sure they're making pennies. You know, it relates to a government job. The bottom line is, and I'll say this too, Mr. Templer, your motto is, "How can I help you?" And I love that motto. I hope that some of my colleagues will have something to say because I know some of my colleagues have had issues and problems, but these have got to be worked out. And I think the comprehensive plan is certainly one way to do it. But I want to instill on our staff, your staff, sir, and I will hold you accountable, Mr.

» Templer, your staff to be polite in every office to the citizens of Kershaw County. You know, I have people call me up, not much, once in a while that are really outraged, but I listen to them. I don't bless them out and hang up on them. Well, maybe not yet. But I'm just saying, somewhere, somehow, we've got to realize that these folks out here, whether I agree with them or they agree with me or we disagree, I work for them. I don't work for these politicians up here or the bureaucrats. I work for these people out there. And so that's really why I put this on. And I'll yield and hopefully some of my colleagues will also speak that I know have had some issues. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any other discussion? Mr. Templer, who does Angela work for in planning and zoning? Excuse me.

» Who is Angela? Can we clarify? Yes. I can clarify. Okay. So I've fielded some complaints about someone named Angela. So I don't even know her last name. So if you will let us know where she is in the process of planning and zoning. Yes. So she is a contracted engineer for us that helps us handle our MS4, which is our stormwater. That's both inside what the state determines is our MS4 district. And she also helps us handle our stormwater outside of that district, which is Cassid area, the greater area. So just imagine MS4 running most of blue golf. And that's just our obligation through DHEC and the EPA to capture stormwater and handle stormwater appropriately. So with our last engineer, Russ Van Patten, leaving, he was the person over the MS4.

» Our next engineer was a little more sewer-centric, if you will. His specialty as a stamped engineer was to handle our wastewater facility. So we didn't have the ability for him to handle MS4, so we contracted out. That's been some time back. Same with roads as well. We have Michael Baker for road construction. They work with CTC for resurfacing and building of roads. And Angela works for Wood PLC, who is a contractor as well. So the goal is to just make sure we're in compliance with rules that are beyond Kershaw County's ordinances and regulations. These are DHEC rules. These are EPA rules. These are essentially federal mandates when it comes down to stormwater. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

» And does she have any kind of authority with the citizens? Should the citizens be contacting her? What -- can you explain how she's contacted and how she's brought into the loop? Okay. So she's -- it's as needed. Okay. So with larger projects, anything but a detention pond or retention pond or a construction site, especially in an MS4 district, that is just a very regulated process there. So if a silt fence is down and there are, you know, rainwater runoff from a construction site that's pouring silt into a creek, that's problematic. So she is there to help mitigate that and make corrections and do inspections. So -- Okay. Is MS4 -- is Cassett MS4? No. No. MS4 stops -- just imagine through Lugoff and then some into the city of Camden.

» So it -- So she wouldn't have any jurisdiction in Cassett area? No. That's going to be -- that is the DHEC's jurisdiction and federal regulations, DHEC. Oh, good. Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Templer. So I think what I would like to see was some of the complaints I got. I certainly acknowledge Angela's expertise and our consultants' expertise. We need them. They're the subject matter expert. But I don't ever want to pawn anything off on them. I want our people to take care of our citizens and help them get to whatever they're trying to do. Help them get to their goal. And I know that's hard sometimes with the strict regulations and we hate to say no and sometimes we have to.

» but my expectation is that with her help we try to get to an agreeable answer or a yes instead of always saying no. And that is mine as well. We currently have a vacancy for an engineer. I'm in the process of interviewing stamped engineers, professional engineers. And this time around we're looking to go a little more stormwater. Okay. But I think we're going to be doing this. We're going to be doing this. I think we're going to be doing this. We're going to be doing this. We're going to be doing this. Okay. Thank you. The only other thing for discussion reasons, planning and zoning, we have the comprehensive plan. Mr.

» Templer, when do you expect that contractor to contact us or start having meetings? So we're trying to look at events coming up in the community that would take away public input. So things like the cup. Okay. Things like that. So we don't want to plan around that when we don't have the captive audience that we're looking for. Because that's going to be a real opportunity for us to address some of the concerns that Mr. Jones had. And I can think of a half a dozen rules and regulations that I think should be relaxed. Okay. I can think of two or three more that should be maybe buckled down on, perhaps. So that's going to be a real opportunity. And this is a 10-year process. And I don't want to waste this opportunity with a lack of participation.

» So we are working with them now to schedule the most opportune time for council engagement, citizen engagement. I would like to have contractor engagement. And just take advantage of what I would consider wet cement and where we can really shape what we want. Okay. In the future. And also the planning commission will be involved in that as well. Okay. So it will be a robust process with lots of input. Okay. And how long do you think it will take? I don't have a timeline on that. I think what's going to be the driver there is these public engagements. Okay. Alceo Levine is the contracted organization. They will come down and spend four days down here. Okay. And I think that is, once we kind of pass that milestone, things should pick up. Okay. And with that, I will get an expected date.

» Okay. A timeframe for you all. Okay. So, Mr. Jones, I think we have an opportunity to change some of the concerns that citizens have through the comprehensive plan process. Yeah. Exactly. And Mr. Temple, I appreciate it. And Mr. Jones, to your concerns about our public interactions, I take that very seriously. I know you do. I do not stand for any kind of rudeness or anything like that. So, you know, I will work to make sure that that doesn't happen. Again, going back to my plus one, and my goal for this organization to be a true service provider, that is not consistent with what my goals and expectations are. So, I will absolutely look into it. Well, it didn't start under your watch. Say that. Thank you. But I meant every word I said. We work for these folks out here. They're our bosses.

» We walk into an office in this building. I expect every employee to treat them with the utmost of respect. Thank you. And I know you do. Thank you. Any other discussion? Yes, Mr. Cato. I'll just reiterate what Mr. Jones said. I think we probably received the same phone calls. But I was very disappointed. In just my short tenure, I've had two or three complaints on the planning zoning. And it's very disappointing. But I feel sure you'll get it straight for us, Mr. Temple. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Cato, for speaking. I appreciate it. With that, we will move on to our next item of business, which is the appointment of an interim clerk to council.

» Do I have a motion to appoint an interim clerk to council? I would like to make a motion to have Lauren Reeder as the interim clerk to county council until the vacancy is filled by this county council. Okay. A motion to appoint Ms. Lauren Reeder until the vacancy is filled. Is there a second? I'll second. And discussion? Yes. Will you accept? Thank you. Ms. Reeder, thank you so much for filling in the gap. We do -- this body does have to officially appoint an interim in the absence of one. So this was a technicality, but I do think that she is the best woman for the job. And if there's no more discussion, we'll go to a vote. All those in favor in appointing Ms. Lauren Reeder as interim clerk until the vacancy is filled. Indicate by raising your hand, Mr. Brazel, Mr. Tucker, myself, Mr.

» Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. Congratulations, Ms. Reeder. All right. Moving on. Establishment of the Finance Committee. We are under our new rules. Our new rules state that we will establish a Finance Committee, so we will do so at this time. Are there any motions to put a member on the Finance Committee at this time? Do we want to do it by motion or by nomination? Do you want to nominate all three? Well, I don't want to take some to somebody else, but I'd like to make a motion for Russell Brazel to serve on the Finance Committee. Okay. Motion for Russell Brazel to serve on the Finance Committee. Is there a second? I'll second that. Mr. Tomlinson, second. Any discussion? I think he's a good man for the job. I think his heart is in the right place.

» His work ethic is there, and he understands business. Mr. Brazel, would you like to serve on the Finance Committee? I don't think I would. Then I'll rescind my -- I'll take it. I think I'm going to pass. Then do we want to do this by nomination? Okay. So we have a motion on the floor that's second in our discussion. So you can withdraw -- well, he didn't make the motion. You can withdraw. I'll withdraw my motion. Okay. There we go. And I'm glad to withdraw that if he doesn't want to serve. Okay. As he told me, he wanted to serve earlier. Any other motions to put -- Mr. Tucker? I have a question on -- do we want to do motions? If you do it by a slate, you can ask who wants to be on, and then you can do one motion, which will be a lot simpler than going down.

» If not, I'm happy to make a motion to ask Mr. Brantley Thomason to serve. I don't mind doing a slate, so. I'll second that. All right. So I would like to add Mr. Brantley Thomason to serve on the Finance Committee. Okay. Nomination. Mr. Thomason, do you accept that nomination? Thank you, Councilman Tucker. Yes, I accept the nomination. Is that a motion or a nomination? That was a nomination. Why did you do that? Oh, okay. We're nominating a slate, and then we'll make a motion to approve the entire committee. And I would like to make a motion to nominate Councilman Tucker for the Finance Committee coming up. Councilman Tucker, you know, knows the budget process by the back of his hand.

» How long have you been doing this now? I mean, you've got a few gray hairs on top of your head, but -- There's a lot more than you think. Yeah. I think it'd be good, good guidance for someone who's been through many budget cycles to give new people like me guidance on the process. So I'd like to nominate Councilman Tucker. I duly accept, and thank you, Councilman Thomason. Okay. And any other nominations? I'd like to nominate Mr. Danny Cato, if he's willing to serve. I'll second. I would respectfully pass, and I want to explain my reason why. I feel like I need time to get my feet wet a little bit with the county business, and I feel like I would need a little bit more time to make sure I would be comfortable and do the county justice. So at this time, I respectfully pass.

» But thank you for your consideration, Councilman Tucker. Thank you. Okay, Mr. -- Madam Chair. Didn't leave many people. Paul Napa, would you serve on our Finance Committee, please? He's out there in the -- I have a question before I make my next nomination, because I know this individual's desire. So my question to you, Mr. Bowes, if we appoint someone now, can we change later if someone's serving temporarily? I think you appoint them to your terms, but the person you appoint could resign. Okay. And then we have to reappoint? Yes. Okay. And that's my question. I nominate for slate Mr. Jimmy Jones, Vice Chair. And Mr. Jones. Crap. No. Yes. That's crap. I was the chairman of the Finance Committee for three years. You and I fight like cats and dogs in there. Correct. You're a liberal.

» We don't think alike. I'm going to stand my grandmother. You're going to stand yours. I will do it, but I'm going to resign. I will do it under this condition, because I'm not going to -- I am not going to leave this county without a Finance Committee, because that Finance Committee will hold accountability. We won't get blindsided with budgets that we have been in the past. So I will serve on the Finance Committee until we determine -- we see who just won the election today, and hopefully they will take my place and I'll resign. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. If they don't, I will continue, but I pray. Madam Chair, I make a motion that the nomination comes to a close. Okay. Nominations are closed. We have three members nominated and accepted.

» Is there a -- I make the motion that we accept the three members that have been nominated for the Finance Committee, Mr. Brantley Thomason, Mr. Jimmy Jones, and Mr. Sammy Tucker. I second that motion. All in favor of the Finance Committee slate, Councilman Tucker, Councilman Tomlinson, and Councilman Jones, indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Braswell, Mr. Tucker, myself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. May I have just a quick moment of point of order? Yes, Mr. Jones. Not a point of order, but just a moment to say something. This Finance Committee is very, very important to this county council. It is more important than vice chair. It's more important than a lot of things because you're going to take up your time, and you're going to sit down, and you're going to go over.

» And all we do is make a recommendation to the county council. So that's what we do. But it's a lot of work. It's a lot of involvement. And I take it very, very seriously. I've been here 16 years. I'm going into my fifth term. And I hope this council can work together through this. I'm sure we can. But I appreciate everybody who's accepted to serve on it. And let's buckle down and do what's right and have a balanced budget with no taxes, no increases, no fees this year. We can do it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. As part of this new business topic, in accordance with our rules, section 5.1, number 2, the chairperson of the finance committee shall be appointed by the chairperson of county council. With the members serving.

» First I want to tell you, I will not chair, I am not going to chair the finance committee. I was not going to select you. I think experience in this position is probably the biggest concern of mine. We are a new council. We're going to have a new clerk. And Danny, you're very knowledgeable, but also new at the administrator job. So I'm going to lean on the experience in this council. And at this time, I will appoint Councilman Sammy Tucker as the chair of the finance committee. Thanks. But thank you, Madam Chair, and my colleagues for entrusting me. And I assure you that this committee will work hard, do the due diligence, make our meetings, and bring back the reports and the things that are needed for us to have a sound budget and present back to council for approval or amendment.

» Thank you, Mr. Tucker. You're welcome. With that, our next agenda item is Funding Authorization for Kershaw County Opioid Settlement Fund. This was placed on the agenda by myself. And in your packet, you should have a sample letter that goes with this motion. The technical requirements of approving a subdivision and the written authorization that -- Madam Chair, may I recuse myself from this discussion and recuse myself from this vote? Because the person you're going to be calling up is my beautiful bride who fell in love with me. She first saw me. Yes, Mr. Fens. And I'm going to go to the back room. That's appropriate. Somebody come get me when it's over. We may. You will also have a opioid fund technical proposal.

» And at this time, I move that county council authorize the chair to execute this letter to the Opioid Recovery Fund Board, granting approval for the Alpha Center to apply for guaranteed political subdivision sub-funds in the amount of up to $561,228.03 on behalf of Kershaw County, pursuant to the technical proposal requirements published by the Opioid Recovery Fund Board. Is there a second? Second. All right. Discussion. Would you like to lead? No, I'll follow. Part of the reason -- and the director of the Alpha Center is here, Ms. Mara Jones. She was very helpful in our first application for funds. Unfortunately, our application did not get approved, and that's because we are not the subject matter experts.

» No one sitting on this board or in Kershaw County Government Center is the subject matter expert in this field. We need to rely strongly on the Alpha Center as a partner. If the Alpha Center pools this funding for their very specific and certain programs, they are also held accountable to report back to the Opioid Fund Committee with reports of how they are spending the money and if they are spending it appropriately according to their application. So it does put the responsibility on the applicant and the person using the funds. Our technical requirements is that we give the participating subdivision written authorization by the governing body.

» So we're the governing body, and we would be granting explicit approval for the Alpha Center to pool the funds necessary for any opioid core strategies and uses. Madam Chair. Yes, Mr. Tucker. I got a couple questions that I would like to hear from Ms. Jones. All right. And a couple questions is -- one is we're drawing down on the 561-228. This program goes on for 11 years. So we're holding back -- and this is for you too, Mr. Templer -- on the others. And for the next couple of years, to see what progress we've made through the Alpha Center to draw down again, and I'll give that chance to build back up, which kind of makes sense. Ms. Jones, I've been through this before on a huge grant.

» Unfortunately, there was a life taken in order to achieve that grant, but it was well spent in our community. And I thank you for that. And you were on top of that grant, and you weren't the director at that time. But you did such a lovely job, you in the Alpha Center. So we appreciate that. And so all my trust is within you and your staff. And I know you're capable, able -- and what I would like to say, too, in our written agreement, that we have a periodic, whether it's annual or semi-annual, of updating counsel where we're at. And I know you're very good about doing that. I don't think we need to see you every month, which I love looking at you. And you can tell your husband that. I'll tell him when he comes back. But that will keep us abreast on the progress.

» And, of course, let us know what you need in addition to trying to combat the opioid, the fentanyl, all the stuff we have that is feasting on our young, middle-aged, old people. It is running rampant in our community. So with that, I'll be quiet, and I'll hear from you if that's okay. Can each one of y'all hear me? No. The proposal -- and we've done this also with the Health District -- that authority has given to us through a letter of approval. The strategies that are in the technical proposal requirements are all familiar to the Alpha Center because we're required to abide by those proposals already and record every month how many I actually deliver.

» What this would actually do is the proposal that I work with Danny and Gerald with is kind of similar to what we did with the gain grant that we did with the school district, which ended up being a successful gain grant program. So the council may or may not know this, but we had in the month of -- in November, we had almost -- well, we had 19 overdoses on two streets with four deaths. And that, to me, said there was -- there needed to be a call to attention by our community. The problem is COVID has wreaked havoc on our community, and every one of us are short-staffed. We can't find staff, and we're all struggling to do our own jobs.

» And so when we pull together a coalition to address the opioid epidemic, one of the best practices, according to the SAMHSA model, is that you would have a coalition leader. That's going to be the first charge of business, to hire a coalition leader to bring the community players together and to be able to deliver those services. The Alpha Center is an appropriate place for that to happen, like it was with the gain grant when we worked with the school district, because we have to abide by best practices. If I'm not abiding by best practices, then I do not receive funds from the feds. These dollars will be reoccurring, and so there's limitations, but what they're looking at, the board is not going to change the requirements for which we have to implement unless those best practices change.

» If those best practices change, I have to be retooled according to federal mandate in order to learn those best practices. The Alpha Center is a service delivery agency in our community that will then extend our tentacles to work with law enforcement, EMS, the county, in order for those funds then to get into the hands. My intent is that money will not sit at the Alpha Center. It will get out in the community where it needs to go, but it will be a coalition leader who is driving those tools and techniques that needs one person to do it. I can assure you right now, Danny Templer probably wouldn't want to be the one driving all of those, because I can tell you, I don't even have enough time to drive. That is a huge responsibility.

» But the call to action came whenever there's 19 people who overdosed on two streets, and the question that I asked and that our sheriff asked was, "What are we not doing that needs to be done to save a life?" And there were many tools and techniques that we could have done had we been more connected. I'm not going to lie to you, Alpha Center could have done a lot better job than what we were doing. But we got to be connected, and we learned through that game grant, and we still have a lot of programs. I will tell you right now, the Boys and Girls Club of Kershaw County is one of the best programs that ever came out. The reduction of foot traffic throughout our community, those kids have places to go, they have activities, they get job skills ready.

» That was the fruit of the labor of our community coming together. This is the same opportunity for us to be able to have those same efforts again. And it will be a community program with a community coalition that sits together, that drives and makes those decisions. If this is bestowed upon the Alpha Center to be the applicant for it, then that is the intent in which I will go to drive the funding. The funding will open up in February again for us with a closed date on February the 28th. Madam Chair? Yes, Mr. Tucker. So I know there's another pot of money, Ms. Jones. Yes. It's a 15% from this state.

» You also need that authority, if I'm not mistaken, to draw on that as well, so that needs to be in the written authorization? The money right now that we would draw on would be the guarantor political subdivision. And right now, what the chairman proposed is the money that I would propose. And with all due respect to county council and transparency, is as money comes in, the dialogue needs to be, and Danny brought this up, and Gerald, whenever I spoke with them, is sustainability of the program. This is going to be some reoccurring dollars, but we don't know because it's based on per capita in each county. So I'm currently working with my Chesterfield and my Lee counties as well. We represent them.

» So we won't know the exact amount, but what I would be looking for is to go after the guaranteed political subdivision, subfunds, and to draw down on those, and for us to reserve the right to come back, and for county council to do a reallocation as we move forward for more transparency. Yes, ma'am, and I got that part, but that's a different pot of money that you have to apply for that's not into this 561-228-03. Yes, Mr. Tucker, that's correct. Mr. Tucker, that's correct. So I'll let Madam Chair explain a little bit more. We might need to get some legal clarity on this, the discretionary subfund. I don't see in the technical requirements where it says that you can give approval to our participating political subdivision. I see it. If I could offer clarification. Okay. Yes, please.

» There's two pots of money. Right. And so the discretionary subfunds, those open up, those actually open up at a, they're two different pots, okay? I could apply for those anytime I want to. Okay. Okay. And those are opened up to pretty much anybody. What happens on those is they become under a strict scrutiny because they're not coming under the guarantor political subdivision. Okay. And those are going to be a lot different with, um, Roberta from our state office has moved over to, um, look at those grant funds. And those are some that will go out to like, um, faith based communities are reaching out for those. Those are going out boys and girls clubs, but you still have to deliver, but then they have to prove that they can deliver those and then receive those technical funds.

» So you can go after them over here. And then there's the guaranteed funds. What I will share with you is if those guaranteed funds by our community are not used within a certain period of time, they will be redistributed to other communities using them. Yep. So the board is looking at those funds, uh, how often do we draw down on them and how much are we using? Because the rules to play can change as they see that they're not being utilized within a community.

» And one of the things I will say is Danny was really good at, um, meeting and us jockeying for us to be first at the table for it because some communities haven't even established, um, how they're going to move forward with these funds, which is going to be, um, challenging, um, to move forward because they can have a reallocation to another county that is in need. So it's to me, one of those things that's crucial for us to be proactive and to, um, look at how we utilize them. And the more they sit there, the idea is then obviously this county may not use them and the board can reallocate and it that's written in the governing, um, rules by the legislators. Thank you. I've got a question.

» We, we all know that opioid crisis is rampant, right? And talking about the overdoses and kids and that sort of thing, but also lots of adults faces this, this terrible battle of addiction. Would it be possible to use those funds to build a facility or a rehabilitation facility? As to my knowledge, there's not one in Kershaw County that's an inpatient rehabilitation facility, unless I'm wrong. I could be wrong. I, if I could use those funds for infrastructure in any way, I would tell you the first thing we would probably look at doing is some type of detox. Um, the unfortunate part, not a single one of those dollars can be used for building, um, any type of facility.

» Is there a way to, to, to use them for something that you're currently using and to reallocate other funds to fund a facility? I can't supplant funds, um, because that would be legal in a, um. We don't want to do anything illegal. I just, I just know that it would be needed. I'm just thinking else. Yeah, and I don't disagree because the unfortunate part about it, which, um, Paul Knapper was the executive director and I was the deputy during 2008. The, the unfortunate part about it was a downward spiral of the economy. The first thing they asked was detox beds and inpatient, um, facility beds, and they've never come back. And right now, what we have is a, um, critical need for individuals in need of detox.

» And right now, the average weight, unless you have cash available, is going to be about six to eight weeks. And the level of motivation at six to eight weeks is long gone. Because when someone walks in, you gotta hit when the, um, iron's hot. And that is the biggest challenge. Um, I would love to say infrastructure dollars. I could figure out a way to do it. But, Mr. Braswell, I'd love, love if we could look at something like that for our community. Because it is greatly, greatly needed. Well, maybe in the future we can find a way to make that happen. Absolutely. And I'd be the first to tell you, I'd jump on board for that. As well as, um, we've got some fabulous staff who are in recovery themselves.

» Who are very interested in looking at trying to expand, um, patient beds for Kershaw County. Because right now we have to send our, um, we have to send our clients out of community. And that is a challenge because our, our, our people want to stay in their community. They, they don't want to leave their loved ones for fear of when they come back they may not be there. And so it's, it's a real thing. And to Mr. Braswell's point, overdose deaths are hitting 24 to 54 year old range. It's the highest rate for overdose deaths. So that's a huge gap. It used to be smaller. The other thing too was gabapentin is now getting ready to hit us really hard too for abuse and overdose. So gabapentin mixed with benzos or pain pills are going to be, um, really what the feds are looking at.

» The biggest wave that they're seeing coming now. And you don't think of gabapentin, you know. And so EMS is gonna, we're getting ready to try and look at doing that. But that's where that coalition comes in and can send a call out to all of those coalition leaders. And saying, hey, this is what we're seeing coming down. Or there's a connectivity at two o'clock. Law enforcement contacts that coalition leader. And then we have knock and drops going on doors by foot and walk. Telling my, the aunt, hey, you don't use drugs. But there was a notice on your door that said there's a bad batch of pills going around. Aunt tells the 14 year old son who then tells the dad who uses. Dad's got that same batch, but he hadn't used. That's how it works out there.

» Um, it's word of mouth on the streets for what happens to individuals. And it is not, uh, the poor man, the rich man, the white man, the black man. It's every single person is affecting. And you can scroll through Facebook. And what I always tell people when we're doing a DUI death for Kershaw County is, um, they, we ask what is, um, what rate of DUIs do we want for Kershaw County? Zero. Because are you willing to give up your loved one for them to be the one who died? So the only rate is zero. And it is happening. And no one plans for addiction to happen to them. No one plans for it. Um, but it, it, it is like mental health. It's like, ooh, let's don't talk about it. Um, but millions of people recover and live productive lives.

» And we have a golden opportunity with this opioid money to make a big dent in impact. Um, we may not know the lives we save, but we sure know the lives we lose. And I'd rather read less of those right now. There's a grieving mother in our community right now that it breaks my heart. And it, it didn't have to be, but it is, but we can learn from it. One more quick question. Uh, you spoke of hiring, uh, kind of a community organizer. I'm, I'm, I'm sure I'm not calling that correctly. What was it? Well, I just got a, in there, it would be kind of the community liaison. Kevin Rose was the one for the grant, um, for the gang grant. Okay. And we actually wrote in the grant where we housed him at the, um, school district, because those funds were, um, sent through the school district.

» But the Alpha Center was the one who spearheaded the whole, um, whole grant. And Kevin basically was your, I call it your conductor on the train. He was your main person directing traffic, coordinating all the coalitions. Meeting with the, um, meeting to make sure that the outcome measures were going okay. So if I'm giving law enforcement this amount of money to do X, are they producing this amount at X? Because that person still has to produce to you as well as to the opioid board. They have to submit a report that did you meet your deliverables of what you put in your grant. Because then if I don't meet those deliverables and y'all go back to ask for money and I didn't meet those deliverables.

» Guess what they're going to say? You didn't do what you said you were going to do the first time. So why am I going to give you money the second time? Um, so we're in the age of accountability. And so everything we do, we have to put down. Every time somebody walks in my building and asks for Narcan, I have to document how many I actually reached out to. And how many were reoccurring. And then right now there's a mandate sent down from our state office based on the number of opioid overdoses in our community. I am charged with distributing X number of Narcans out in our community. And so if I do not do that, guess what? They withhold my funds. So that's why we're at community events, passing out.

» We were at every parade this past year just walking up to people asking them to dispose of medications and giving them the bags. Trying to get out to where people typically aren't. The biggest thing we had when I was on school board is how do you get community engagement? That will be a forever question. How do you get parents involved? How do you get community engagement? Boots on the ground. How do you win election? Boots on the ground. That's the best way you do it. And so that's where our prevention department comes into play. They put the boots on the ground and go out. And so this position will be in our prevention department. They put the boots on the ground and they go out in the community. They go into the schools.

» They are, they are the ones, United, collaborates with United Way. And they're the ones that when you whistle in the middle of the street and all the homeless people come out of the woods next to KFC. Those are the ones we're checking on. Those are the ones we go to the motel. Those no-tell motels and we put in the bathrooms. Hey, here's Narcan. This is what's going on. And you have to go where the people are at. And then we also have to hit the parents who don't want anybody to know it. You know, we don't want to know anything. So you got that broad ray. You got a big, big brush. You got a stroke. And it's hard. If I may ask one more question. The lady or gentleman that will occupy this position, post recovery, someone's continued sobriety.

» Is there a way to marry them with a local NA or AA program that's free? And there's a plethora of people that are willing to give support for free once someone is sober or even to help get them sober. I think sometimes maybe there's an overwhelmed feeling when you're trying to help someone. And then there's, oh, the next new person that needs help and the next new person. But I think the biggest thing here is continued support and years and years of sobriety. So I think if we could marry the Alpha Center with Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous, I think that'd be a beautiful thing. And celebrate recovery as well as we've been having some other ones come into our community. And those are vital. One of the things that I will tell you is not everybody gets sober in the same manner.

» It takes different ones. It used to be the old AA was the only way. That's not true anymore. So reaching out to them, you're exactly right. AA and NA are incredible assets in our community along with our peer supports. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Jones. That was wonderful. I'm sorry, Ms. Edda. You run to the restroom. Would that funding be, would it be possible? I know you mentioned infrastructures, a no-go.

» Would infrastructure include maybe possibly renting or some type of mobile crisis unit where you could travel around the community? Maybe be visible? Would that, is that something or I guess that would be under infrastructure maybe? Yeah, that one I probably would need to call Roberta on that one because based on if you look through the requirements of the delivery, it doesn't allow for certain purchases over a certain amount. But it doesn't mean that some of the rules could not change further down the road because I don't think, or I shouldn't say I don't think, the amount that will continue to come into our community is going to be very impacting. And what you're talking about is, I've always said the traveling prevention team and, you know, a road van or something.

» That's really one of the biggest waves going right now because that's how we deliver like opioid treatment in Chesterfield is a mobile unit. And so, yes, and especially getting out to the rural communities are very, very important. I love the fact that we're going to have a facility now in, you know, the Mount Pisgah area that we can actually go and I could send prevention team out there on different activities and all. That's going to be fantastic. The churches out there are really good to us. So, I agree with you on that. I'm not quite sure it's within the scope at the present time. Thank you so much. And Ms. Jones, correct me if I'm wrong. On the website, they list the approved abatement strategies. Yes. So, anyone can go to that website and see what those are.

» She's well versed in them. I want to thank you for your willingness to partner with us on this. I know you don't have to and it's going to be an additional duty, but you truly are the expert and I can't thank you enough for your guidance and mentorship through the council and the government center on this. You helped me figure out the fund and what the strategies were. Vincent Shaheen helped me figure out the settlement and how we got to this. So, I can't thank you both enough. Mr. Templer, I have one question. If we apply for the fund ourselves and the application is approved, was the plan to designate that money to the Alpha Center already? Okay. Okay. So, essentially, this removes us as the middleman since we do not know the abatement strategies and we don't know the core.

» What is it, Mara? The core strategies of delivery. The core strategies of delivery. So, I absolutely think it's appropriate that our service provider of the county receives the funds and can also pool them as needed. Any other questions for Ms. Jones? Thank you so much. Thank you. You guys did a wonderful job. Thank you, Mara. Well, and I would just tell you this. I appreciate the trust y'all having me for being able to do this. It's definitely a calling and I would tell you there's no better place to be than the Alpha Center. And I always welcome any of y'all to come by and examine anything we're doing or to participate and be a part of it. Our doors are always open. So, please, please come by and be a part of it. And we're getting ready.

» I will share with you, we're getting ready to start where we actually have animals for people with trauma. And so, Charlie Church, who was here for Jimmy Swearing In, will be a therapy dog. And we have Goose, who will be a therapy dog. And so, it has shown significant outcomes. So, the Alpha Center is moving on to working with people who have trauma and our veterans who have trauma, working with them on treatment modalities. So, we'll be working with veterans to fulfill our next program, too. So, I look forward to being able to share that with y'all as well. And y'all can come by and see Goose and Charlie Church. Thank y'all. That's awesome. I need to sign my daughter. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Jones. All right.

» I'm ready to call for the vote on authorizing the chair to execute a letter to the Opioid Recovery Fund Board granting approval to the Alpha Center to apply for those sub-funds. Madam Chair. I just want to reiterate that the things that we spoke about being an authorization letter to the Alpha Center for the reporting period and, you know, for her to come back, please. Okay. Mr. DeBose, do we need a contract or an agreement with the Alpha Center that states when the report will come back to us? Mr. DeBose: They're going to have to enter into agreements to get the funds. Okay. Mr. DeBose: And that will specify the community has to be involved, which would be the county council. So, this is the authorization for her to go in and pool.

» And then, when the funds are received, we will enter a contractual agreement. Mr. DeBose: No, I'll have to have a letter to submit with the application. Okay. Yep. Did that answer your question? Mr. DeBose: Yes, ma'am. Okay. All those in favor of giving the Alpha Behavioral Health Center authorization to pool the guaranteed political sub-funds for the opioid settlement indicate by raising your hand. Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, myself, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel. And Mr. Jones has recused himself. With that, the funding authorization has passed. And we will move on to the next item on the agenda. Thank you, Russell, for getting Mr. Jones. Next item on the agenda is the Cassette Fire Station update. This was originally put on the agenda under public presentation.

» And we expected to get a public presentation from Mr. Templer. At this time, Danny, I'd like to recognize you to go ahead with that update as you were planning. We'll just wait for Mr. Jones. Okay. Do you want me to wait until he's in to start? Sure. Mr. Jones would not like us to wait for him. So, if you can proceed with the update. Madam Chair, members of council, I think this is the presentation. Everybody's been looking for tonight on this agenda. So, what I wanted to do is just index everybody into where we stand on this project. It's been a long, ongoing project. It started way back when we took up the ad hoc committee for increased fire protection.

» Can you go to the next slide, please? The initial ad hoc recommendations, you'll hear terms, if you look back enough into this project, you'll hear hub and spoke. And what the spirit of that was is to have two locations specified by this, the recommendations of the ad hoc committee to serve as hubs for strategic parts of the county. You see, Blaney is an obvious choice with all the density down there in that portion of the county. And then Cassett fire department was selected for the northern hub, if you will. It allowed them to reach up into the Bethune area and on over into other areas in terms of response times, cutting down response times and things of that nature.

» So, what we did, we based call data at the time and correlated that into a heat map assisted by our GIS programs we had at the time. So, this allowed us to really look and see where the activity was in Kershaw County and how we could better deploy our resources as it relates to this hub and spoke. Next slide. So, this is the most recent map here. You can see Cassett is below the blue area there. And as you would expect, the Blaney area down there is pretty bright red. A lot of activity. So, up in this area, again, the spirit was to be more centralized and have an outreach into these areas to, again, reduce response times. Next slide. So, this brings us here today to this current configuration for the Cassett fire station. A little background on the old Cassett fire station.

» Somebody mentioned there were some mold issues in there and that is correct. It was also situated in a very small lot. And it was kind of the impetus for us to, when we go and replace EMS stations and fire stations, is to not buy just enough land. Our goal was, at the time, to look for five-acre plots. That gave us a little bit of expandability and it would allow us to fit the facility on the site. As you can see here, the colored area is concrete. So, that's a lot of impervious surfaces, which we'll get into when it relates to drainage. That rainwater that would normally absorb into that ground covered by an impervious surface has to be collected and put into a detention pond per DHEC. So, knowing that, we knew we would need, going forward, much larger footprints for future sites.

» So, this search for this land started probably in around, I would say, 2017 or '18, somewhere there. Probably '18, throughout the conclusion of the Ad Hoc Committee. We knew we needed to locate somewhere away from where we were. We needed to replace that station. But we also wanted to remain within the call response area for the purposes of the ISO rating for this station. So, the previous emergency management director was able to cold call the owners of this parcel here. And they agreed to sell the parcel. It was given at a discount because they knew a fire station was going there. It was a larger track than what we needed. It did not fit the five-acre normal footprint that we would look for. But they were not willing to subdivide or sell less than that.

» So, we didn't want to miss the opportunity for the reduced price. And it was a very good price. I think the total was $59,000 for this approximately 12-acre parcel. So, again, I don't think we would have found, at the time, a better location with a willing seller. And that was the key portion there, a willing seller. And this family was more than willing. And they were pretty excited about having a fire station out in Cassett. So, that was fairly well attainable. So, with any project in -- with our EMS stations, our fire stations, or anything we build, we go through a due diligence process. We look at geotechnical information.

» Will the soil support the structure? And especially here with heavy trucks, will the soil compaction be an issue with cracking concrete and settling foundations? It's what we're plagued with now. We don't want to repeat what we have and have fire stations that just are not a 30-year structure. So, a geotechnical report was commissioned by a company called ESP. And that was in -- the report came back to us. It was finished in October 2019. I think they started even earlier in September actually doing the work. So, they did core samples. And that just let us know how much soil would have to be removed, if any, on topsoil to get down to the good soil, for lack of better terms. And they did samples -- I think 11 samples throughout. If you can go to that -- advance the slides. Keep going.

» Keep going. There's that very last slide, I believe, right here. So, this is what -- this was back in 2019. This is what they were given. I know there was some discussion about a decision being made to just move the facility from the upper right would be the Dollar General area. That was not true. This was back in 2019. So, this was always the original site. There was never a previous site. I think some people were confused, even on staff, that it would go down near the Dollar General. But that was never the intent. As you can see, the shape of this parcel, it narrows. It's bordered by Highway 1. It's also bordered at the back by a railroad track.

» So, it tends to narrow slightly, but enough to make it not a -- with what we had to do with a retention pond, the amount of concrete, the turn radius for the trucks, that was not necessarily the best spot. So, moving forward, we did these tests, and this site was suitable per this report. And, of course, if you look out there now, there's a lot of topsoil removed, but that was what was necessary to get down to the more sturdier soil, if you will. So, go back up to the previous -- hold right there. So, this is kind of what you see a little bit, how that's kind of a keystone-shaped parcel, if you will, narrow one end a little wider on the other. Back to the original, where we're at right now. I'm sorry, the very first slide, the current configuration. Sorry.

» So, this, as you can see, with this kind of a light bulb shape, for lack of better terms, the facility is further back from the road, and we have abided by all setbacks. We've exceeded the legal setbacks on all of our parameters. There's a retention pond at the back, which is necessary. This site has been engineered. The structure has been designed by an architect. And so, every facet of what we expect any commercial building to have, in terms of the ability to build and proceed forward with inspects and ordinances and all applicable laws and regulations, has been met and, in my mind, exceeded. So, having said all that, when this came about, obviously, when we started clearing the land, there was some concern that came up from the neighbors right next door, the Gatsby's.

» And if you all want to go into that, I can. If not, I can answer any questions, if anybody has them right now. I don't want to get too ahead of myself. Any questions yet? I just want to know if there's options. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to it. So, to try to tell the story, I was contacted by Councilman Cato about some concerns from the homeowners. And I immediately reached out to them. They were out of town. And I just kind of let them know that when they got back, you know, I would like to meet with them as it relates to any of their concerns. And also let them know that we would have them involved in any landscape plan they had. And, you know, to be fair to the Gatsby's, they never once indicated that they didn't want this next to them or in Cassett or anywhere near them.

» I understand their concerns. Madam Chair, you and I went out and met with them on the property. We did. I completely understand their concerns. And my commitment to them is that I would do anything and everything possible that was both reasonable and fiscally responsible to address their concerns. Because we want to be good neighbors. Right. We have a situation at one of our facilities where we're just, there's a, it's not a very good neighborly situation. So we don't want to repeat history. We want to start clean and make these facilities a true amendment to the community. And an increase of value to the community and it's clearly needed out there. So we work with them. We went out and talked with them about the, their concerns and about moving it, moving the station.

» There's, there's several options in here I will go through and I have some relative costs as well. So given the fact that there was some discord from the, from the entire situation, we, we halted progress. There was no, I didn't know what the count will of council would be. So it didn't make any sense to continue to build up a surface that may not be the surface or target surface for this structure. So, you know, in the world of construction, there was multiple pieces of equipment out there and they're not making money by idling equipment. So they demobilized, removed potentially all of the equipment from out there because they have to go to the next job that's going to pay their bills. So totally understood that.

» So there was a demobilization out there and we paused because the, the, the, the council meeting was the following Tuesday. So it wasn't like we were pausing for months on end. So, um, the goal was to come here tonight, offer some salute or some, some options rather, and have a, just a healthy discussion in the public eye about what, um, what can be done and how do we meet in the middle? So if you'll go to the, let me just explain this a little bit right here. If you'll notice there, um, that, again, that colored area is the concrete around there, the, the, the triangle at the top or the rectangle at the top is actually the, the bays. And then there's the living area and there's a parking space down below. So that's kind of, kind of be the focus of, as for the options as we go through.

» So, um, go to the next one, please. So option one was to move the entire facility, the entire footprint, 100 feet for the north, if you will, going up highway one. In this, I was educated myself in, in, in this whole process. It's not just easy because, you know, we haven't poured any forms. There's, there's no, um, underground utilities yet. We're just in the site prep, but with the amount of topsoil that had to be removed based on those geotechnical reports, um, there's a large pile of dirt out there and that would have to be replicated. We would have to go back to DHEC, um, and this is going to be true for all of the options here. We'll have to, um, remobilize equipment, um, which we'll have to do regardless. We'll have to re-engineer the, the site.

» Um, we would have to acquire another DOT permit because we have a curb cut for highway one there, which is the, the line of site is, is there. It's not going to be anything earth shattering. But that's not, but there's a cost related to that. Um, then we would have to have another DHEC land disturbance permit because we did not, we are not permitted to disturb any land to the north of this. Um, so all of these efforts that we have done so far to get us to this point would have to be replicated again, unfortunately, at the same cost. Probably the only cost that would not be as much is the, the, the, the removal of trees and, and any vegetation to the north. Um, cause there's, you know, you're talking a hundred feet.

» So, um, another geotech survey because the, the focus of the geotech bores, I think there were seven of them performed in the area of where we are going to set the actual structure. So we have a, a larger sample to make it better. Mr. Templer. I'm sorry to interrupt you. No, go ahead. Um, can we go back to the boar footprint, please? Yes. Can you go back to that? Right. I think it's the last photo. Yes. Last slide. It has the 11 boar samples on it. Yes. Um, I do see what you're talking about where the majority are over there, um, through the west. Is there a reason that there were that many boar samples there? Well, yes, because that was the, um, the proposed site back in 19.

» So it was never, they, they've, they performed several boars throughout the parcel, but the, the bulk of them were in the footprint of the building where it was going to sit itself with a few you could see in, in the concrete turnaround. So the proposed site in 2019, they bored more there because it was proposed. Right. How was that site proposed or selected? Uh, it, it was just always, I, I wasn't part of the selection, but it was, um, through the previous emergency management director and, um, staff, it was selected to go on that end. Um, also the, and I, I, I know it's a small sample size.

» So just kind of take this with a grain of salt, but those boar sites, um, nine, 10 and 11 based on the, the report, the, the, there was much, a much thicker layer of what they considered poor sandy soil. And again, it's a, it's a smaller sample size and we've got, you know, six or seven boars down here and, and the, the, the amount of material needed to be removed of what they considered topsoil, um, poor quality topsoil was markedly less based on this report. But we found that out after it had already been proposed, that location. Right. Right. So again, going with a larger sample size at the, at the site, it, it was, um, we found that out through the, the geotechnics.

» Do we have any information on the proposal process for the EMS director and county staff on this selection, this drawing that we're looking at right here? Do we have any insight at all to why it was selected? No, I, I don't. Because we didn't have the boar samples yet. Um, right. So, uh, the, the boar samples came afterwards. Um, and, and I'm, now I do know that, um, they did speak with the homeowner. I think the Gatsby's are the second homeowner from the original homeowner who we, they, we, staff made a, uh, kind of a cold call, knock and talk on the door and said, hey, we're looking at putting a, any MS, or I'm sorry, a fire station next door. And there was no objection to, from, at, at the, at the, the old homeowner in 2019, I think. Okay. The, the original homeowner.

» And I'm asking because, um, even before we took samples, before we went to planning, when you look at this drawing, it is on the edge of the property from the very beginning. And in our meeting last Thursday with the homeowner, um, you, Gerald, myself, and, uh, the project manager, it was said that that proposed location was there to leave room for a park. A park? A park? A park was never discussed. So, I just, I, I need some information from the very beginning why it is all the way over there. And, um, Mr. Furlong did say that he was told to make room for a park, so, um. Right.

» So, it, the park was more so an, an opportunity to, um, what are we going to do with the rest of the land? You know, could, could we add more value to the community out there with, um, you know, a walking trail was, was something that was talked about, but it was never something that we had done any due diligence to this level to look into. Okay. Um, again, it was just, if we're going to put a fire, uh, station out there. And that was never a driver in any of what we were going to do as far as location. Okay. Um, again, don't. Are you sure that that wasn't a driver? I mean, it was, it was talked about amongst staff. It was talked about. Yeah, it was. And then they come up with this.

» Yeah, so, with that, I think there would have been, and I'm, I'm, I'm making an assumption here that, you know, to maybe not split it on the road. Maybe not split it or have it offset, um, on the partial location. But again, I wasn't part of any of those conversations or any of that strategy. Okay. Mr. Jones. Okay. Mr. Templer, is your project manager here? Yes. Can you come up and talk to us for a minute? Sure. Sure. Pete. Good afternoon. I say good afternoon. Hey, Mr. Furlong, put the mic closer to your mouth, please. Dean Falkenberry decided he wanted the fire station at the desired location. I came up with a layout of the proposed fire station based upon the Elgin or Blaney fire station. To validate the decision to build there, we had to go through and do geotech reports.

» We did not want to build on that location if the soil was bad. So, step one is to decide on a site. Step two is to determine whether this site is acceptable. Step three is determine, is the county willing to spend the money to build on the site given the geotech. And then we proceed with writing the request for bid. All right. I have some questions. When I got calls, I got calls about this being right next to the house. And I was told that was the most suitable place for it due to some soil sample checks. And then I hear that in a meeting, it was mentioned by you, sir, that you left room. There was going to be a park next to the fire department. Danny's statement was correct. Which was? We had 12 acres of land. We were using, at that time, three acres for the fire station.

» And the question was, okay, what are the possible uses of that land? And that's not for y'all to decide, sir. That's what county council decided. No, no. This was, this was, this was, we haven't even come to the council for any plans. This was, this was in staff discussions. Could there be a park there? And the thought came up and said, yeah, we could probably put a park there. But we're going to build a fire station. So the three acres for the fire station did another acre just in case the park. No, the, the, we had three acres of the fire station and nine acres of the 12 for some future use by the county. Was any land cleared off in preparation of the possibility of a park? No.

» If you go up there right now, the, the land is as it was when we purchased the property, except the power line is no longer through the center of the property. How many acres do we clear? It has not been cleared. No land's been cleared. Other than, other than for the fire station, no land has been cleared. Four, approximately four acres, correct, Mr. Templer? For the fire station. For the fire station. I think it's three or four acres. Yes. That's been cleared. If I may, Mr. Jones. Can I say one thing? Yes. I'm going to be quiet on this until you finish. No, I want you to get your questions in. Yeah, I have some questions. First off, I just want to say to all the folks in here, we care about you guys. We care about Cassett. You're going to get your fire department.

» The fire station is going there. It's not going to be taken away. That is propaganda. That is not true. Nobody up here wanted to get rid of the Cassett fire department. I got calls that there were some things going on that weren't appropriate. As a county council member, I've got to check into those things. And I did check into those things. Mr. Templer, why did you shut the project down? Well, again- Because they've been talking to Ms. Gwen like she shut the project down, but she didn't. No, no, no. That was a decision by myself in speaking with Pete because we were so close to this meeting. It was a matter of days. We shut the project down because it didn't make sense to spend money on a project or a site that may not be the site tomorrow.

» So, I didn't want to continue to haul dirt in there and continue to increase a cost that may not be the target site. So, yes. He figured- And the weekend was involved in that? Right, right. So- Okay. Yes, sir. So, it wasn't a whole lot of time lost if it continues on. No, sir. You know, if we resume tomorrow, depending on what- Yeah. It's a week. Well, I make no apologies for having questions when I'm told that there's timber being cut to put a park on. I make no apologies when I see a family here. And let me tell you something. Whether it was anybody out here, if it was your family, I'd be fighting the same way to say, let's move that thing a hundred feet or whatever. Let's give these people a little bit more breathing room. You know, I would do that.

» But bottom line is, whatever the council's will is tonight is what it is. But I just want to make sure we know what we're doing. We have accountability. You know, who decided? Because, you know, you and I, we talked a lot and you didn't have some of the answers that I needed as well. Yes. Because you just got here. You're trying to fill everything out yourself as well. Can I ask you just a couple of questions? Sure. Sure. And you might want to stay, Mr. Pete, because you may have an answer. So what did we pay for the land? I hope I didn't miss that. That was $59,000. Good. That was a good deal. Yes, sir. No question about that. And was there an original location? I know it was repeated here again, but I just want you. No, sir. This was the original location. I got you.

» And the total budget for the project is as we stand? As we stand, it's probably about $2.6 million. And that's a pretty nice fire department. Yes, sir. What is the expected completion date? Well, that's kind of in the air right now, depending. But, Pete, what would you say? They say they're going to be finished. Fire services will be in the building end of September, early October. Could be in there earlier, but that's what their schedule shows. Okay. Now, this is a question I want you to think about when you answer it. There's four acres. Four acres. Do you think that four acres is a large portion of land to clear for the size of the fire department we're putting in there? And that's a great question. I think that's something that needs to be really discussed.

» So, looking at the layout, regardless of where we center it, we're going to need to clear that amount. Just because of the stormwater runoff, we have to capture all water that is offset by an impervious surface, which is the concrete. There's a lot of concrete out there. So, the footprint is larger just because we have to have a large retention pond to offset any rainwater that cannot be absorbed into the soil. One of the things that Vic Carpenter emphasized to me is that he did not want a stripping of the land. Okay? That was strictly forbidden. There's a 48-inch oak on that property that's being retained. In the request for a bid, I told all bidders that I was going to walk the site with them and go over and look at every single tree that would be saved.

» A large number of the trees were taken up ground level to allow for flow. So, we had to put these dikes. I call them dikes. They'd become gullies. How much was the land raised? I think the property is raised five or six feet. And that wasn't because of the problem with the gas fees because with the privacy fence now, that's above the private fence line of sight. The reason for raising it up five to six feet is we had US 1 or Highway 1. Any water off Highway 1, if we didn't raise the property, would flood the fire station every time it rains. I get that. Okay? So, when you do the gullies, which are required by DHEC, we could have left the trees in there and put the drainage ditch system in with the trees still present. But in four years, those trees would be dead.

» Don't put soil above a tree above the native level, unless you want to kill it. You know, we're talking about soil, where things can go, where things should not go. I can assure you all of this. I sit right here with Mr. Boehner Boykin, sitting out there, and I know you know who he is. Or maybe you do, maybe you don't. I don't know him by name. Okay, well anyway, he was one of the leading experts in soil. Oh yeah, okay, yes. Yeah, lived in Boykin. Yes. I told county council, do not use the land where the college is at. That is swampland. But we did it. They did it. And it cost a huge fortune to do it. So, bottom line is this county has put buildings on properties that are a whole, whole lot more worse than the middle of this property that we're looking at here.

» And that's just a concern of mine. I feel like whenever we have the opportunity to help somebody, what in the world is it going to matter if it's in the middle or somewhere else or 100, 200 feet away from their property. But I can tell you this right now, as I heard them say, and I'm going to say it too, I don't live there. Nobody else in this room lives there, but they're going to live there. And they will have to live with it when we're all gone. And yes, you can. On that subject, so the rest of the property, so the nine acres towards the Dollar General, do we know any idea how much build up that would have taken? No, we did not do a survey. We did not do a topo. A topo map would tell you the layout of the land. So, if there is interest, we'd have to do a topo of the whole property.

» We'd have to do geotech for the whole property. And is that typical to not do on the whole property? Well, you do geotech and a topo on the property you're interested in building on. Okay. Okay. But we were never interested in building on that part. That's -- Oh, no. On the nine acres no matter. Right. We were not. So, my concern is that this proposed drawing in 2019 was already influenced by the park and walking trail discussion. No one even thought about putting it anywhere else because they were already influenced by the future use, what are we going to do here? I think you have the logic inconsistent with my memory. Okay. All right. Gene Falkenberry and I went out there after they bought the land.

» And Gene walked to the area where the current -- where the fire station is being constructed. And he determined that that was the property he wanted to -- that's where he wanted to put the fire station. Okay. Was on that property. As a result of that, three or four acres, there were some conceptual thoughts about what you could do with the other nine acres. Is the county wasting money buying 12 acres when all we're doing is using three acres or four acres? And the thoughts at that time were, yes, there are a number of things that the county could do with that property after the fire station was built. And that's where the parks came up. Thank you. That's where the parks came up. Did I ask a question? Yes, go ahead. Yes, Mr. Braswell.

» I can see on the drawing it's 530 feet deep where the proposed building is or where the building is being built. What's the depth on the other end down at the Dollar General? I can't see on the drawing. It doesn't show a depth. It would look to me it would be about 480 feet. 480? 480. If you wanted a guess. Okay. So what do we -- and I apologize. I missed the very beginning of this discussion. What would the timeline and cost be if we moved the pad over, say, 100, 200, 300 feet? If you move it at, I suppose, 100 feet, you could move it 400 feet and it wouldn't change anything because you've got to start over. You just start over. We're looking at what? You're talking probably a quarter of a million dollars to get to where -- no, to get to where you are now.

» If you start over, it's probably a quarter of a million dollars. The money you spent on the existing site is gone. How much would that be? Can we go to the slide that shows those options? $273,000. Option one. There's a slide for that, Mr. Brazel. Thank you. Option one moves the entire site -- right now the driveway is 60 feet from the property line. If we took and moved it 40 feet to make the prop -- make it 100 feet from the property line, then we would have to move the construction entrance. We'd have to take that out, put a new construction entrance in, get all SCDOT permits done, and DHEC, all the DHEC permits would have to be resubmitted and redone. The pond, whether it would stay its current configuration or not, I'm not a flood guy, so I couldn't tell you.

» Optimistically, yeah, it would be nice to use it. Pessimistically, DHEC will say, move it. Did we meet all setback requirements? Oh, yes. Yes, sir. What are the setback requirements? Currently, the structure is 125 feet from the property line. The building -- the living space building is 115 feet away from the property line. And what's the requirement? 10 feet. 10 feet from building on one property to building on another property? That's right. Of a separate ownership? Okay. That's what planning and zoning told me when I built my house, I had to be at least 10 feet away. And I put my garage 10 feet away. I think different zoning requirements have different setbacks. But I think typical is 10 to 15.

» From the county's property line, is there any setback requirement from the homeowner's property line? Or the homeowner's building? No. Okay. I think it's just property line. Okay. That's what setback's based on. So we could build something 10 feet from ours. Somebody else build something 10 feet from ours. That's 20 feet buffer. Okay. Correct. That's when you're holding hands out the window with your neighbors. It's a little close. If I can, Mr. Brasel, help me with this. Order a million dollars to just move it 100, 200 feet. And you've got a $2.4 million project. I mean, I just can't see what it would cost that much money. Well, I think -- Mr. Templer, do you have a -- I would have to defer to him. You have an estimate. There is an estimate slide.

» You're an engineer, right? Do we have one estimate or two or three of what? We have all of them. Here we go. Cost and time impacts. Cost for each option. We have three options. And the options were driven by our conversation out at the site with the Gatsby's. Madam Chair, you were present. And we kind of went through a couple things, what would be amenable for them. And that was the driver for these options tonight. Okay. We walked and measured 97 feet. So the buffer at the entrance to the Gatsby's property, that's about 97 feet. So that's where -- I'm guessing, Mr. Templer, that's where you used the 100 feet for this cost estimate. To the DRA to the structure. Okay. So structure to property line is 115-ish.

» Can I ask, because I didn't get this amount, what's the current cost as of today that we've spent? $272,000. Thank you. Plus. 272. On this first option, $50,000 worth of trees and shrubbery, is that what Kershaw County has offered? That would be part of -- if we did not move anything tonight, one of the first conversations I had with the Gatsby's was that they would be completely involved in the landscape appearance of what we put in that buffer. So there's nothing there now, but we have every intent to put back a robust landscape buffer between their house and ours. Even considering the elevation change, how could we take advantage of that? And then we've got remobilization and demobilization, $50,000.

» Have people moved their equipment already? No, that is the estimate that the contractor gave me. So I asked -- Okay. But we have not told them to leave yet. We have -- the tractors are still there. Okay. They're not going to move -- They were there yesterday when I went up. They were there yesterday when I went up. Okay. So we have to leave the tractors if the result of this meeting results in significant changes to their schedule or the location of the facility. So there is some cost savings that the contractor is betting on by leaving the tractors. I'm trying to think of a way to mitigate sound. Moving at 100 or even 200 feet probably won't mitigate sound that well.

» Is there some sort of a wall or barrier that could be built to help? The $50,000 assumes the planting of 363 conifer bushes, two rows, a foot and a half, three feet separating the two rows, with three feet between each plant. So the intent of two rows is to eliminate any light. Light is the way you measure if you have sound penetration. So if you have a heavy enough bush, which as a conifer is, it's an evergreen and it gets thick and mushy. I followed you to that point. I studied trees in school. You lost me on everything else though. And also, Mr. Pete, you're saying that we -- so we spent a quarter of a million dollars for one week worth of work. We spent a quarter of a million dollars on one week worth of work. You spent a quarter of a million dollars on almost three weeks a week.

» Three weeks. Okay. Let me ask you about -- does the driveway need to be 150 feet long and could this easily fit further up the property? I have not looked at whether it would fit up the property. The length of the driveway is based upon Blaney and the ability to get trucks in and out of the fire station. When you're talking a ladder truck, you are talking a long truck with a large turning radius. So it cannot be a 30-foot driveway unless you want to block Highway 1 every time you took a ladder truck in and out. So the idea is to bring the ladder truck in, you can park it in front, you can drive it around the back. There's no obstruction of traffic on Highway 1. Okay. Mr. Pete, I have a question and excuse my ignorance in this. We've been at this project three weeks. It's cost $272,000.

» Yes, ma'am. If we start over tomorrow, it will take five months and $541,000. Yes, ma'am. Out of three more weeks and $272,000 more. Are you saying starting over as in? Clearing the tree. So you're moving the whole property? Yes. You have to redo the engineering while we have to do some architectural work. I don't think you're, if you have any, it's very minimal. Okay. I have to do all the geotech. You have to do the survey. You have to meet with DHEC. You have to meet with SEDOT. You have to remove the old entrance. Okay. Do you have-- So where's the extra expense that take, that doubles it? I think-- Am I making sense to anyone? I think a lot of it's an engineering cost. It'd probably be just as easy to move it a mile down the road.

» It wouldn't cost, the cost wouldn't change a whole lot, would it? No. Well, except buying the property. Right. Yeah. And we'd be starting from scratch. Absolutely. You know, I made some comparisons. I did, I went out and did some research and I just want to read these to you. And just a few thoughts that were based on some of the calls that I received. You know, I was checking, compared, number one, like compare other county owned buildings and land. I found out that 7.5 acres for not only Blaney Fire Department, which is staffed 24 hours a day, but also for a recycling center and EMS station, staffed 24 hours a day. Then I found out there was a 1.5 acre lot for EMS station on Messer Lane and Lugoff staffed 24 hours a day.

» And less than one acre for Shepherd Fire Department, you know, department off Rogers Road and Cassett, and .82 acres, .82 acres for Antioch Fire Department on Highway 34 and Camden. And other comparisons, there was 1.35 acres for all of Lugoff Fire Department, 1.35 acres for all of Lugoff Fire Department. Now Camden, they had 10.19 acres for the entire Camden Fire, City Hall Fire Department headquarters and their public works combined. And then 1.10 acres for Camden Fire Department substation and a water tower on SC-97. And all this data is straight off our county GIS. That's why I felt like, well, 4 acres. It must have been, we must have been looking at another, our thinking in our minds that they're, for a future, another, for the future of a park. Because I kept hearing parks come up.

» Now, Jimmy, parks were a conceptual thought of what you would do with extra land. We wanted to, we didn't. Excuse me, Mr. Pete. I'm so sorry. If you are here to witness the county council meeting, I need you to keep the noise to a minimum and no sidebar conversations and respect the speaker. Thank you. Could we have put this on 2 acres of land? Yes. We could have taken and minimized, taken the land, the buffer between the adjacent property owner and the driveway to the absolute minimum. Could have been maybe 30 feet, okay? We could have probably done the same on the other way, other side. But when we were out there, Gene said he wants the building 100 feet away from the property line. That was his specific direction to me. And as a good engineer, I gave him 115.

» Well, I think it was, I think it was. And that, that takes land. Well, and if I may interject something here with those, those lot sizes. Um, some of those are, there's some assumptions there of a different way of handling stormwater. Uh, Mesa Lane, I think is curbed and guttered. And, um, some of the stuff in the city has, has a, I think is in the MS4 stormwater. Um, so the way we're having to handle our stormwater out there is markedly different with swells. And, um, I think there was poor planning on this, Mr. Templer. I know you're a deputy county minister, but I think there was poor planning on this. When you put something on top of another residence, and I don't care who likes it or don't like it. It's as simple as that.

» Bottom line is, these folks are going to have to live by that the rest of their lives. They invest it. My home is my biggest investment. And I think this county has an opportunity to do the right thing, uh, of some folks. And it won't, it, it, it will, they will still get the fire department. It's still going to happen. But that's where I stand. And I'm not changing my mind. Mr. Tucker. Madam Chair, um, I have a couple of questions for Mr. Pete and to get some clarity. So these bushes that you're planning on planting, how tall are they when you initially plant them? They grow about two to three feet a year. Okay, so. I'm buying a two to three foot bush. You're buying a two to three foot bush? Yeah. So five years from now, it'll be, if I do the math right, it'll be a ten foot high bush.

» And then any of these options that you're giving us, um, did you ever consider a taller wall, a barrier along with those bushes to go in there? Because. The wall, the barrier, the tree barrier is, is a wall. If you, a wall is expensive. You know these, these walls are long. Well, I'm not talking about sound barrier walls, like a taller fence. You know, anything can block sound. Um, it may not be as good as other things, but no, I'm not trying to build Taj Mahal with a wall, like, over to by Clemson, um, Clemson road over there on I-20. Okay. But I'm talking about, you know, they got a beautiful fence out there. I rode out there yesterday, took pictures. I got them on my phone.

» Um, but due to the rise of the driveway and the pad, that fence is not going to do a lot of good for them to block sound or sight from their house. So, my question is, while we've got this two foot, three foot tree waiting five years to grow, could there be a fence that is taller and neater, um, along there as well, that could help protect their home from noise and view? Jamie, I think the county would do whatever the council will fund. Well, I'm trying to find something reasonable as a solution, because sitting here looking at these numbers, I wanna know if they move it two feet, where they gonna get a half a million dollars to pay for it. Well, I have a question on that. The total cost, $541,000, does that include the $272,000 we've already spent? No.

» The, uh, $272,000 is, is, eliminate, is out of the $2.6,000. We basically have $27,000, two, a high $27,000 number. So, the, all the inflation costs are in, are based upon the, the remaining contract costs for the fire station. We inflated double in three weeks? Can I ask that question? No, I think he's referring to his contingency. Whenever you have a project of this size, there's usually a 10% contingency clause. Okay. So that if there's cost escalations, there's money appropriated to cover those escalations. I think that's what he's referring to. The budget for the fire station is about $2.8, or $2.7, or $2.8. If you take the $2.70, $2.72 out, it could be $2.5.

» If you take the $2.6 million of work, and you escalate it five months out, at the current inflation rate, which is about 8% a year, you're going to get about an $86,000 increase, simply by deferring. Okay. Okay? I think also-- I cannot assume that the contractor has bought everything for the building yet. Okay. So we would lose the $272,000 that we already spent. Yes, ma'am. And then have to pay whatever rate-- $272,000 again. Okay. If you move the fire station to a different property. And the five months will be to-- Inflation. Okay. The contractor will require an inflation adjustment, given the amount of inflation that is occurring right now. And what happens in the five months? We redo this? We do the-- We go back to the engineer. The engineer does the drawings.

» The engineer takes three months to do the drawings. Then he goes to DHEC and requests their review of the permit. They go to SCDOT. SCDOT reviews the permit. And if everything goes right, you probably have five months between the time we tell the engineer to draw to the time we have a new station design for location. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chair, if I may. Mr. Tucker. Sir. I worked under seven county administrators, and I was department head. I ran five departments within the county. I've never been-- I never have been given the authority to pick where a building was going to be put. And I was the project manager over the detention center. I mean, did you know about this? Because I know-- Well, I wasn't in on-- I wasn't on that, first of all, that committee.

» I was on the adult committee that was talking about SROs and millage and commercial spending revenues. So these spots and conversations with Gene and staff, I was not involved in. And so I'm taking the history from the people who was, which is Mr. Pete and Mr. Templer, on, you know, this was the best location. And this is what they were trying to do, which was to fulfill, at that time, Mr. Gene, our wishes. And staff had no kickback or problem with it. So, you know. You know, I doubt very seriously here, and you guys know it, that the vote's up here to change it, okay? I'm probably just wasting my time even talking. But bottom line is, would you all at least consider giving this man a decent buffer? Well, that's what I was trying to work on in my conversation.

» I know you are, but can we at least do that? I think that's an excellent idea. I think if we could appropriate a certain amount of money that they could work with administrators on allocating the way they see fit. I mean, I think that's, you come in here with nothing. To leave with something is a huge win, especially in government. Votes are not here to change it, I know that. If I may. I've been trying to get a boat ramp fixed for two years. Yeah. Mr. Gadsby, I'm sorry. Unless you are called to the podium to be in the conversation, I understand he should do that. And I don't know why anybody would object to giving a buffer to these folks. No, absolutely not. I have two questions, and it's related, but in the beginning.

» Were there any public notices sent out prior to construction beginning? Is that a common practice for Kershaw County? No. To notify the public? Okay. No. I think there probably was somebody notified. I think a notice may have been sent out, Madam Chair. A notice was sent out? Well, I think there's some indication from some folks. I don't know that for sure, but of course you were Deputy County Administrator at that time, weren't you? No, before construction started three weeks ago. Was there a notice sent out saying, hey, there'll be more traffic, more noise, construction in the area? Okay. I would ask this body to consider establishing some sort of policy for notification of the public.

» The Gatsby's could have easily been here before any money was spent on the site prep at all to discuss this. Mr. Cato. I've been sitting here listening. I want to try and clarify some things. I had a few phone calls myself. Many from residents trying to encourage me to leave it as is. Some. And I had a phone call from Mr. Gatsby. And at the time, he was very upset. And I listened to him. I listened to everything he had to say. And I told him these words. I am brand new. I was just elected to seat six. And I had no knowledge of the site plan or anything that was going on with this fire department. I wasn't privy to any of that information until I took the seat. So, I want to clarify that as far as some of the ones thinking that I should have known more detail. I did not know any detail.

» Now, one of my questions. In 2019, when the site plan was put into place and the geological studies were done. And you knew that this is where you wanted the building to go. Did anybody talk to the land owner of the property in 2019? Gene Falkenberry talked to the property owner when we initially were looking at that piece of property to put a fire station in. Okay. So, in 2019, when this plan was put together, the neighboring landowner, which now belongs to Mr. Gadsby, was talked to and was notified and didn't have a problem with it. His only comment was, "Now that the county owns that land, can I ride my horses on it?" Okay. That was his sole comment regarding the placement of a fire station. And this may be a legal question.

» But, when the land was sold two years later, after the plan had been drawn, the geological studies, the engineering, and everything had been done. Two years later, I believe it was in 2021, Mr. Gadsby bought the property. Was anybody legally responsible for letting him know that that fire station was going that close to the property line? Yeah. Or, was it something that should have been told by the person selling it or the real estate agent selling it? I really don't know the answer to that question because it depends on the contract that was signed by the purchasers. And, it depends on the due diligence clauses in the purchase contract. So, there's a lot of information I just don't know.

» And, it also depends on whether the seller of the prior property considered it to be a detriment or not. I think you do have to tell people things that are detriment, but if he didn't consider it to be a detriment, then no, he wouldn't have been obligated to, if he did not consider that. And, if it, in fact, was not. Mr. Templer, based off our codes, if a private person bought this land, and they decided to build a house or put a trailer, how close could they have put that trailer to that property line? 15 feet. So, if it had been anybody other than Kershaw County, that person could have put something within 15 feet of the property line. It could have been a dog pen, could have been a horse pasture, could have been a house, a trailer, whatever.

» My point that I'm trying to make is I really and truly, and believe me or not, I sympathize with you because I go by that place often and you're doing a remarkable job with it. And it looks good, but I can't see something that was already approved and put into place in 2019 and all of this works went into it changing something after all of this has been done when the landowner at the time was notified and didn't have a problem with it. Now, Mr. Jones, I do agree with you. I believe that this was very poor planning on Kershaw County's part. I think we should have been a little bit more respectful of even the landowner at the time, even though he didn't have, he didn't have a problem with it. Maybe we should have looked at doing something a little bit different.

» And I think this is something that this council needs to look into to make sure this does not happen again. But I can't see spending taxpayers' money. Everybody always complains in here about how much money we spend. And I can't see spending that much money to relocate something a hundred feet. I do support whatever it takes to make Mr. Gadsby happy for a buffer between this station and that property line. Mr. Cato, may I say something to you as well? You know, you're right. You were brand new. You weren't informed. Neither was I. And I was here. And nobody informed me of what they were doing up there as well. And, but I also didn't know about the budget we passed last time. I wasn't informed on that either with the operations of the budget. So anyway.

» But thank you for at least being willing to try to make their lives a little bit more decent up there. Could I make a proposal? I have one more question. Go ahead. I see on option three, flip the fire station and move a hundred feet. Is there a proposal to just flip the fire station and not move it? Well, we're trying to move, flip it and move it out of the hundred foot area. So I try to maintain the hundred feet that we talked about at the construction site for every one of the options. Go to option one, please. So option one is you move the fire station east. So it is a hundred feet away from the west property line of the fire station. That would mean moving the driveway, which is currently 65 feet away from the property line, to a hundred feet away from the property line.

» And moving everything else up, all the buildings and the driveway up 40 feet. Okay, I went to option one just so I could see the footprint. I don't see an option where the west side of the building gets flipped and stays in position. That would be, oh, you're right. It's flipped and the building, the lowest, the western part of the building is a hundred feet from the property line. Is that a possibility? Do we have any data on that? This, the option three is, is that, are you talking about not moving it? Not moving, using this land, but flipping that part to the other side, to the east side of that building. That would open up at the front entrance. It would open up the same amount of space buffer in the back. Madam Chair. Yes. Mr. Cady. Let me make sure.

» So what you, you are saying is flipping the bay driveway to where it would be facing the dollar general end of the property. Is that what you're saying? Leaving the building where it's at, just flipping, flipping the structure to where the bay area would face dollar general. Is that what you're saying? No, sir. The parking. So when you pull into the fire station, if you go to your right, there are parking spaces. There's an entrance to the building. And as my understanding, that is the sleeping quarters and the offices. Yes, ma'am. The bay is the larger part. If that portion of this project was on the other side. Can I interject, Madam Chair? Mr. Patrick. So if you do that, I think the quietest part of this building is where they sleep at, which is next to your home now. Correct.

» So you don't want to do that because when they go to run the fire engines, they're going to be that much closer to the residence and that much noisier. Yes. I understand that. But it would provide this buffer at the entrance. Right. It would provide that buffer all the way down the property. It wouldn't go like this, like a tear shape. Mr. Tucker, let me ask you a question. Yes, sir. You know, what about the drawing? Why would the drawing need to be redone? Couldn't the driveway just be shortened? No, I'm not talking about the drawing needs to be redone. I just want to make sure we don't flip the access where the trucks come in and out. Oh, no, no, no. Right. Do we own a ladder truck in the county? No. All those are diesel engines. That's right. This is a 30 to 50 year building.

» Fire services would like one day to have a ladder truck. So we had the architect or the engineer design it so a ladder truck could get into the building by the loop around the back. But we don't own a ladder truck? That's correct. But it's cheaper now to build a driveway five to six feet wider than it is later on to build it five or six feet wider. It's inflation, Jimmy. You got inflation. You may have impact. Pete, I understand what inflation is. Okay. That's the cost. I get it. Can I make a proposal now? I propose that we allocate $50,000 that was in the line item for trees to the project for whatever use they see fit that's legal, whether it be trees or a fence or some sort of something. And we let you guys determine that, not us. You live there. We don't.

» Point of order might be legal. Do we need to select one of the options? House Dan's, I think, is being built according to the... So right now it's stopped? Right now. It's stopped. But I mean, I think the council needs to confirm that it's going to be stopped. And if they pick another option, then I don't know what the funding requirements would be. Okay. I mean, there are going to be additional funding requirements, I think. Is that right, Mr. Templer? Correct. Correct. So if they stop it, I think they need to provide the funding option to complete it if they want to complete it. Okay. Can you go to the funding slide, please? Okay. Mr.

» Brazel, can you restate your motion, please? Yeah, I'll make a motion to allocate $50,000 of funds that hopefully are already in our contingency, and we won't have to allocate them from anywhere else. Correct. To create a buffer of some sort, any way, shape, or form that the neighbors please. And I'll make that in the form of motion. Is there a second? Are you? I'll second. Mr. Cato seconds. Any discussion? I'll say this. I'm terribly sorry that you guys are having this situation. I know this was years in the making. You know, you moved to town. Maybe you didn't realize what exactly was going on. So, welcome to Kershaw County. We appreciate you being here. And I can tell you the firemen are just some of the greatest people you'll ever meet.

» Make good friends with them, and I'm sure they'll invite you over for spaghetti or whatever they're having for supper. We want to help you where we can. Tax dollars are precious. We don't take this lightly. And I think this is fair to you. And I hope you guys can see that we're really making an effort here. Thank you. All right. Call for a vote on Mr. Cato. I want to thank you also. I know you were very upset that they had a family member in the car with me when I was talking to you. And they could hear everything. But you calmed down and you talked to me. I want to apologize for the fact that maybe I should have started educating myself a little bit sooner. But as you can see, things are a little bit hectic and a little bit different.

» But I hope this will satisfy you and your wife's needs. And I think that Kershaw County, from here on out, will do what they can for the citizens to make sure this is done right. And that it never happens again. So, you know, I understand. I understand your point. I hope you understand our vision and our point on this. Thank you. Madam Chair. Is it germane to the trees motion? It is germane to the amount. Okay. I wanted to just to make sure. You said 50,000 for the trees. 50,000 for the buffer. For the construction of the buffer, right? 50,000 total dollars allocated towards any sort of buffer they want. Yep. I'd like to even maybe even leave it open to more than that, because we don't know how much that buffer is. I know you all came in here. We're going to keep it at that location.

» That's going to make it very difficult. Well, we can get some options, right? Kind of coming in with proposed buffers, correct? I agree that we have X amount of dollars. It's a finite amount of dollars in contingency. And so this would be pulling from some of that contingency. So I think the opportunity is down the road. As we see, we don't need this amount of contingency to have this as perhaps an ongoing relationship. If 50,000, if we allocate 50 today, we know that's done. Okay. Who knows what upsets the apple cart and you get nothing. If he sees he needs more and there's some available in the project, I think we can bring that back up for discussion. Fair enough. Anything over $25,000 has to come before us. If it's, I think, five or 10 more thousand, he can do that on his own.

» Is that fair? Can we put it to a vote? Yep. I'd like to make a motion to amend your motion to allocate the total cost of $109,000 because that's what I understand we have to pass tonight to continue forward. With the $50,000 of remobilization and demobilization, that's an arbitrary number because nothing has been demobilized or remobilized. That is, that is their cost. If they were to do it, that has not happened. Well, they've, they've demobilized some and if they came back, that would be about $50,000. So, I'm reading this, retaining the existing location, which is what I think we're getting at, has a total cost of $109,000. Yes, ma'am. So, we need to approve that. I'm, I'm, I'm a little unclear on the remobilization.

» I mean, if they moved a TRACO to another job site, and to move it back would not cost $50,000. There's, there's absolutely no way. Right. That, that's insanity. Um, and. Well, didn't we just acknowledge that all the equipment was still at the site? Yes, we, we did. It's still there. Right? The equipment's still at the site. I would, I would have to look at. I can't. So, if the equipment's still at the site, we can, we can take that $50,000 and then allot it to trees. Yeah, I couldn't. Well, we, it's so unclear at this point. I couldn't vote for that. I want to vote for something I can support and something I know that, that we can do. Okay, Mr. Templer. Um, my expectation is you come back to County Council with the re-mob and de-mob cost and construction cost, if any. Okay.

» He's got a motion on the floor. Yeah, we, we need to vote on the motion to allocate $50,000. The motion is to allocate $50,000 and to proceed with the present plan. So then he would come back with any cost that would exceed the present contract. Does I understand it? Is that not correct? I think what Madam Chair is asking for is the exact cost of the remobilization. But you want to stop? For clarification, if we're moving forward, as I understand this chart, the total cost is $109,000. So do we need to approve $190,000 to move forward? Yes. Okay. $190? $109. $109,000. Yes, that's correct. So. And it would come from the fire fund now, incidentally. We'd have a fire district. So it wouldn't come from the general fund. It would have to come from fire district funds. No, I'm, I'm.

» And there's $50,000 already allocated for trees. I'm thoroughly confused at this point. So you're talking about the fire district fund. We're talking about money that was borrowed in a bond that has contingency money available. Right. This, this is within the scope of the project. These costs are, would be included in the cost of the project that we have from the defeasement of the bond. Um, about $7,000,000. So this was allocated for this project. So this, these funds would not come from general fund or fire fund or anything. It's, it's already. Right. You, you would propose it comes out of a contingency. That's, that was my proposal. Yes, sir. That money was already allocated towards this project. Right. You wouldn't have to take it from any other budget line. No, sir. No, sir.

» No, I'm not trying. I'm just trying to make sure that, uh, Mr. Templer has, this chart says to retain the current location. So to start tomorrow and move forward, the total cost is $109,000. Right. Is, is what he's telling us. But we were just, okay. Okay. So the $50,000 line item that says re mobilization and demobilization that hasn't happened. That's fictitious. We will, we will not pay. They will give us an invoice for demo. Okay. If we vote, if you, if you vote to go forward, they will be requested to give us an invoice specifically related to demo and remote. And yet they haven't moved the equipment. All the, all the costs. There are costs associated with moving people out, moving, getting stuff done. So we've cost ourselves $50,000 just to talk about this is what you're telling me.

» Basically. Um, that is a rough estimate of the demo and remote costs. So if it turns. So that money's already spent. So we can't allocate that line item towards the buffer. I'm not concerned about the line item right now. I'm, what was presented to me is options. Option one will cost 109 and it's moving forward with trees. I'm just so sad that we've lost $50,000 to re mobilization and demobilization, but. I'm not. There's a citizen in Kershaw County that had a concern. Yes. Bad planning on the county's part. Let's. Let's continue with our vote. There was an amendment on the table. Is there a second for the 109? I amend Mr. Brasel's motion for $50,000 to trees to take the amount up to $109,000 to retain the existing location, which includes the $50,000 in trees. Right.

» And I was, I'm asking who's the second on that amendment. Is there a second? I'll second. What about Mr. Brasel's motion? Where? It's amended at this point. Right. If, if we amend it, I'm just still a little bit unclear on how and why we spent the $50,000. I can come up with a number, a basis for the, for. It's up to $50,000? It's up to $50,000. Okay. So it may, it may be $10,000 or $15,000. Right. It may be $30,000 to $40,000. I just, I just don't want, my point is I just don't want to be taken advantage of. So we will have a, I will request a separate cost account for demo and remove associated with cessation. And I will request a specific invoice, one line item for demo and remove.

» So the county council will have a full and open understanding of the costs associated with the five days delay. And then the $9,000 in question is a quality cost estimate range? I don't understand your question. The, the, the line item is, it says $9,000. Um, what is that? That could be any other work. If, if the site was, had erosion as a result of the rain and they had to go back and add soil in, then the county would pay for that because it occurred during the cessation. Let's get, let's get it voted on so these folks can get there. Um, I guess my point is Mr. Templer needs an allocation of 109,000 to move forward tomorrow. Looks like it. Up to. Looks like it. So I'm asking my colleagues to increase that amount to allow him to get back to the project. And it includes the trees. Yep.

» Agreed. Call for the question. Right. I'll call for a vote on the amendment to Mr. Brazel's motion to allocate 109,000 to retain the existing location of the Cassette fire station. All in favor. Mr. Brazel, Mr. Tucker, myself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Cato. Now we have to address the amended motion. Right. Motion as amended. Right. The motion as amended. The motion as amendment. And, Mr. Brazel, I forget the entire. Restate your motion. Will you restate it? New motion. It's yours. It's yours. Okay. Okay. Now we'll vote on the motion as amended, which includes Mr. Brazel's motion that we spend $50,000 on trees for a buffer, which is now 109,000. All in favor? Mr. Cato, Mr. Tomlinson, Mr. Jones, myself, Mr. Tucker, and Mr. Brazel. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen.

» I'll find my agenda. Mr. Templer. Yes, sir. You're new. Please keep us informed of what's going on. I will, too. Because in the past, you know what I'm talking about. Yes, sir. Thank you. So, Madam Chair's point, I will report next council meeting with these specifics and- On any projects in the future? Yes. Of course. Absolutely. To the Gatsby's. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. There was a lot of things we found out through this process that is going to make government better. I'm sorry that we couldn't move it with the inflation cost. We would have done this due diligence for any citizen in this county. Because we work for the people of Kershaw County. And everyone in the government center does as well.

» Okay? So, there's no apology from me that we took this much time, or we dove this deep, or that we spent any money de-moving. We will now move on to old business. We don't have any old business. And council briefings. Mr. Tucker, can you go first, please? Yes, ma'am. I would just like to say I have at this time no briefing, but I would like to tell the Grigsby's that, you know, I'm here as well to do whatever we can. And I did happen to ride by your place yesterday and took pictures. And any way that I can be of help, please feel free to reach out. My information is on the website. I thank all of you for your support. And I'm going to dismiss myself because I have to go and check in at my job. They probably think I've ran away. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Drive safe.

» Mr. Brazel. I have nothing to say. Thank you. You're welcome. Mr. Cato. Just a few comments. First of all, I want to thank the Gatsby's for your cooperation and for the intel that you've provided. I think you've opened a lot of eyes with some things that we probably need that we can do better in this county. So I thank you for that. There's a lot of first responders here, a lot of firemen. I want to thank them for their service. They really go above and beyond for this county. And I want to thank them for everything that they do. I look forward to continuing to work with this council and the people of all over Cushaw County. So, thank you. Mr. Tomlinson. I don't have anything. Mr. Jones. To the Gatsby's, at least something came out of it. Okay? And we have, I think we have learned, Mr.

» Templer's learned, I've learned, that we need to be briefed and know what's going on. And I wish you all the best. And anybody who's upset with you getting a buffer, it must be personal. Okay? The fire department was never going to lose their fire department. Never was going to lose it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. I have two things tonight. So, this council is actively working on the comprehensive plan and updating the zoning codes and regulations. And in the spirit of that, Mr. Templer, I would like Vision Kershaw 2030, also known as Vision 2030, removed from the county website. Amen. And also the signature line of the employee emails. When you click the link, it takes you to the website. And Michael Conley is listed as the point of contact. And he's no longer with us.

» So, there's no reason to send people to that website. Go, Madam Chair. All right. There is a veteran's breakfast that is every fourth Tuesday at Pine Grove Baptist Church in Lugov. And it's at 9:00 a.m. It is open for all veterans to attend. And I would like to see -- well, I just wanted to put that out and invite everyone to that. It's great fellowship. And it's a great thing for camaraderie for veterans to do that. It's completely free. Tell your friends. They met this morning. It's an amazing group of people. Where? Where? Pine Grove Baptist Church in Lugov. Thank you. I know where it's at. And in the same spirit. So, I've received a lot of interest in establishing a Kershaw County Veterans Parade. That is something I would love to see happen in Kershaw County.

» And if there are people out there interested in organizing that, you would have my full support. And that is all. Madam Chair. May I just as way of information say something? Sure. I also want to put it out there that the Mount Pisgah Resource Center is now open. It's the resource center that was established up at the old elementary school, Mount Pisgah Elementary School. They have a workout room. They have -- they're opening on Sunday evenings for recreation and basketball. So, if you get a chance to go out or go up there and visit them, they are open and up and running. And they've really done a lot of work up there. Thank you. Thank you. To the administrator. Thank you. I think this was a very productive meeting.

» I think there was -- the in-depth discussion on the firehouse location I think was very productive. It's formative for council, for me, my staff, to better understand what we could do better in the future to learn from this. I'm just a big believer in learning from the pinch points. Madam Chair, you even mentioned something about, I think, during our discussions of having a -- some signage saying future site. That's certainly going to be incorporated into what we do. Awesome. So, moving forward, we will make concerted efforts to reach out to surrounding property owners and be more considerate. Even if they are a little further away, it's -- it could be things with noise and light pollution and things of that matter. So, we can always be better.

» And we will look to learn from this -- from this organization standpoint in the way we do business going forward. Thank you, Mr. Templer. Thank you. Best compassion. Thank you. Thank you. Legal briefing. Mr. Dubose. Madam Chairperson, I have nothing. There will be no executive sessions tonight. And do I have a motion to adjourn this meeting? So moved. And a second? Second. And all in favor of adjournment? Mr. Cato, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Jones, myself, Mr. Brazel? Right. This meeting is adjourned.