Full meeting transcript - September 13, 2022

» - Test, test. - Test, testing, testing. Test, test. - All right, are you guys ready? All right, got everybody. It's a great day in Kershaw County and now we've got this whiz bang set up here and I think it'll greatly inform and improve how we're presented here. What you're seeing on the screens is what we see on the screen here. So that helps so people don't have to look on the screen behind us and squint at the small print. I think this will be very helpful. I thank Danny and the team for putting this together. Well done. We have a quorum with all members present. Before I get started, I asked our attorney, Ken DuBose here, about if everybody had a chance to sign up and I wanted to reiterate that we have two sign ups.

» One is for the public hearing, which has to do with the third reading of the millage and the second one is for the normal public comments. So did everybody get a chance to sign up or did somebody sign up in the wrong category? We'll sort that out as we go forward. We're pretty user friendly here, but Ken, keep us straight if you don't mind. Thank you very much. Well, school has started. We've had our wonderful fire departments in Camden and Lugolf do the 9-1-1 celebration on Saturday in spite of the rain. Well done. Unfortunately, we also lost the Queen of England and some of us served in her armed forces. I did. And they served alongside our armed forces now and in the past and in the future. And so we regret her passing. I would tell you that we will move through this in an unusual way.

» I'm going to try to get the baseball team through quickly, not because we don't want to see them, but because we're respectful of their very busy young men and their parents. And some of them have to go to school. So with that, we are called to order. Mary, duly reflected. We have all members present. And I'll ask Mr. Tom Gardner to lead us in the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. Would you all please stand? Thank you. Father, we again thank you for this day, for the beautiful weather that we have. Thank you for the opportunity to gather here and do our county's business. Father, we are grateful for people that sit on this council. We thank you for our staff. We thank you especially for our employees that make this county go.

» Now, as we move into the business of our county, we ask that you grant us wisdom and discernment. And as we move forward, we ask that you would do that and help us to move forward and make decisions that are in the best interest of our county. We ask these things in your holy name. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance. Thank you, Mr. Gardner. Please, everybody sit down. We'll move immediately to a very fun, important part of this thing. The newspapers and the radio have told us that we have a World Series baseball team from post-17. And I've read it in the papers, so therefore, it must be true. And I have a proclamation that I'm going to read in honor of this great achievement, both by our great American Legion and by the ball team and their parents and our coaches.

» And then we'll do a motion, a vote, comments, and a presentation. A proclamation in honor of Leroy Belt post-17 baseball team, whereas the veterans of Kershaw County and American Legion post-17 have sponsored public service projects for this county for decades to include scholarships, public recognition of our armed forces, assistance to veterans, and memorials to the fallen. And whereas post-17 has sponsored baseball and softball championship teams for decades at a Legion field, and that same spirit of service to country from our veterans now infuses the spirit of volunteerism of our entire county and drawing in the top talent from men's baseball and ladies softball with the commendable support of parents, volunteer coaches, and Legionnaires from across the entire county in Midlands.

» And whereas the 2022 summer James Leroy Belt American Legion post-17 senior baseball team was comprised of the best of the best players across the entire region from Camden High, Davis Beckley, Patrick Daniels, and Will Steins, from Lugov Elgin, Max Branham, Cobie Evans, Zane Cato, Keaton Harrelson, Banks Munn, and Riley Ward from Thomas Sumpter, Jamari Harris from Spring Valley, Brandon Gibbs, Brent Gibbs, and Ryan Raven from Richland, Richland Northeast, Shane Thomas from Blythwood, Stephen Lang Spitler, Alex Simmons, Justin Fleming, Jacob Hardy, and Kevin Steelman. And whereas coaches Stephen Carman, Justin Dorton, Randall Vickroy, Brady White have led by example in the sport and in leadership on and off the ball field.

» And whereas the post-17 team achieved a record 23-7, they are Legion 3 champs and state runner-ups, acquiring along the way the title of Southeast regional champions, one of only eight teams in the entire country, in the entire country, who made it to the American Legion World Series. And though Alabama post-70 won the championship, our post-17 was the only team to beat them during the World Series tournament. All of Kershaw County holds each player in the highest esteem as an exemplar of excellence and to all aspiring players in all sports in Kershaw County. And therefore, be it resolved and Kershaw County Council post-17 baseball team be thanked, congratulated, and encouraged for their championship performance and expert sportsmanship in this stellar season 2022, I'll tell you.

» And be it further resolved to thank the veterans who are here tonight of post-17 and of all our veterans organizations for their continued lives of public service in support of the youth and all who live in Kershaw County. Can we have a motion to approve? I so move. Mr. Jones, a second. Is that you, Brent? Yeah. Mr. Tomlinson. Any discussion? I'll discuss. If I could. Go ahead, Jimmy. Well, we're very proud. I'm very, very proud of this team of young folks. And, you know, this is just the beginning of your life. And you learn a lot of lessons when you go through sports. And we're very proud of you. And we're very proud to pass this proclamation. Also, Justin Dortner, are you here? Justin's not here. Okay. Well, anyway, congratulations to each and every one of you.

» Very proud of all of you. Case times, you too. Mr. Tomlinson, you had the second. Yes, sir. Just wanted to say thank you so much to the team. Thank you for representing Kershaw County well. Y'all are rock stars. Appreciate it. And next year is going to be an even better year. Thank you all. Other comments? Mr. Chairman? Yeah. Thank you. I'd like to congratulate the parents. I know there's a lifetime of travel ball behind what you've accomplished here. And just to those that have done so well on the team, please always remember that the young kids look up to you. And you have a great way to give back in the community. You may not think much of some of your accomplishments. We think a lot of them. But the kids look up to you like giants. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

» Well, other comments? Yeah, Mr. Tucker, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say especially thanks to Coach Steven Carmen and all of the coaches as well. But I just know this young man lived, breathed, and eat baseball as he was coming up because I had the opportunity to coach him during his younger days. He's getting older now. But I want to say to all the baseball players as well that continue, as Councilman Connell said, to do good, do great things, and always know that there's eyes on you. And there's a lot of kids around here who inspire themselves after you because you are their heroes. And so just continue to set positive examples, work hard, get your education, and dream big, man. Dream big. You never know. I just need one ticket. It's just me when you make it to the majors.

» I like to sit out somewhere on first base side. Congratulations. Mr. Gardner. Yeah, just congratulations. Terrific accomplishment. When you think of the hundreds and hundreds of teams that started the season and it comes down to eight, and you're one of those eights, it's a tremendous accomplishment. And, you know, just really proud of what you did for yourselves, but for Kershaw County as well. So congratulations. I'll too say congratulations. Go ahead, sir. Yeah, I'll too say congratulations. You guys got a big accomplishment. Big trophies. You can carry that with you. That builds a lot of self-esteem. That builds a lot of confidence. And I've got a gentleman that works with me in sales, and he was a little nervous making cold calls and selling.

» He said, "I just can't get comfortable with it." And I said, "Well, what is it you did best in life?" He said, "Man, when I was on the pitcher's mound," he said, "I was a heck of a pitcher." He played college ball. So if you ever get in a situation as you move forward in life, my advice to him, I said, "Well, close your eyes and throw the ball." When you're on the phone with the customer. So you'll always have something to correlate back to. And what a great success. Thanks, guys. Yeah, I'll close out and ditto to the team and the coaches, but we should also thank the American Legion. It is a tremendous workload, and I have contributed to that.

» The veterans of American Legion and VFW who supported this effort in the hot dog stands and making the programs, setting up the schedules, getting the young men into their uniforms, finding volunteers to make it work, and for the lady softball as well. So we should thank them all. So with that, we seem to have reached a conclusion. Mr. Chairman, one quick thing. Yeah, Jimmy, go ahead. One thing that I've always told my children. I'm going to pass it on. Of course, they've probably heard many things. In this life, you don't get anywhere through luck. You get there by hard work. That's why you are where you are tonight. There is no luck involved in it. Hard work. So take that with you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Any further? With that, I'm ready to call the vote.

» All those in favor, signify. And it's unanimous. Thank you very much. With that, can we have the team and the coaches up here? And likewise, the VFW. I think y'all got something for us. I mean, the American Legion. I believe y'all got a sign for us. Come on up, everybody. And we want to see that trophy right up front. Can everybody look this way? One, two, three. Hold on one second. Is everybody good? Okay, you're good. Thank you. I'm Coach Carmen, for all you that don't know. I just want to, again, thank the community and Legionnaires for everything they do for these boys. And, you know, they provide them somewhere to play in the summer for free, which is, you know, hard to find these days. So, you know, we put in a lot of time and effort and work, and so do these guys.

» And, you know, we hope to grow this program and get everybody a big community involvement in American Legion baseball. And hopefully we can keep this thing going. And next year we'll be coming back with, you know, a couple more trophies. Thank you, guys. Thank you very much indeed. We took a departure from our normal practice so we can get these young men back to their families. But again, what a great, great achievement. We'll get back on the agenda. I believe it's up. If you can put it back up on the board, please, that'd be good. Again, what you're seeing in the audience, we're seeing on these big screens here, too.

» Okay? So with that, we move into the next item, which is a public hearing regarding an ordinance setting the millage rate for Kershaw County for fiscal year beginning 1 July 2022, the year we're in now, the fiscal year. Mr. DeBose, how many do we have signed up? Mr. Chairman, two people have signed up in the millage ordinance. And the first one is Jeff Maddox. If Mr. Maddox will come up and I'll read the rules of the house. Prior to the public hearing, sign up should be made. Immediately prior to the hearing, it should be announced that they're wishing to speak, should identify themselves. And when the public hearing is open, the persons will be notified as to how many people have signed up. We know it's two. Persons will speak in the order in which they signed up.

» Each person will speak a maximum of 10 minutes. Comments at public hearing should be germane to the matter, which is, in this case, the millage rate for this fiscal year. With that, the public hearing is open. Mr. Maddox, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Guys, we've been over this millage thing and the process has been done over the last, as was said before, many years. And there's been some discussion about whether it ought to be tied together with the budget. And there's been discussion about why it's not tied together. And it seems to create a lot of confusion in the public. As the two are interconnected, yet separated. And so, as the ebb and flow of government goes, you find that, like the budget process was kind of hard for everybody.

» You saw people coming in here and talking about it and debating about it and even council debating about it. And then it gets passed and then you have a controversy over the millages. And so, this controversy creates chaos and spreads it out over a long period of time, instead of making the pain sharp and to the point, you know, instead of drawing it out. It's like ripping the bandage off of an open sword. And so, I know that this is probably going to pass and all. And I don't agree to the millage and increases in a lot of ways. I understand that we're going to do what we're going to do as we have created this monstrosity that now rules our lives and takes our labor and spends it in many ways that individuals would never do. I understand that.

» And so, working within the system, we need to streamline it to some extent. I agree with Mr. Jones when he says that these things should be combined into one thing. So, to that big debate as the process goes, we know. We can know. Why does it always have to come to the very end? And everybody rushes and puts these amendments in and all of it sounds like we're up in the swamp up there. Why can't we do something? I mean, we're, I mean, $26 million is a lot of money, but it's not that much when we look at trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars flying around. I just don't understand why we can't do it in a simplified manner. There's, we've got to get back to the basics of government and it's not spending money on all kinds of crazy things.

» It's not spending it on economic development. Economic development has nothing to do with government. Yeah, you can scribble it down on a piece of paper and make what's not right. Right. I see that all the time. Look at the volumes and volumes and volumes of laws and rules and regulations that politicians, not necessarily you, but politicians throughout a couple of centuries. Look at what they've piled onto us. And that comes with an expense because for every rule, regulation, ordinance, or whatever, you've got to hire people to enforce it. Again, it's a monopoly on the threat of violence and violence itself. Because ultimately, if we do not cooperate with this collective, we will be incarcerated, persecuted, robbed, locked up, whatever.

» So until we recognize that government is a fire and it's out of control and we need to put that thing, take the logs off the fire, get back down to the little basic thing that protects liberty. Until we do that, this is what we're going to get. Every year you're going to see, oh, it's going to be this kind of millage and that kind of millage and this kind of, and nobody can figure out how you figure out a mill. Even Dennis Arledge can't explain it. It's like common core math. Two plus two equals five. Why do you even do it like that? Well, it's always been done that way. I hear that excuse so many times and it's not true, not true, not true. If it had been true, we'd have had as big a government now as a small government they had in 1776. 1789 is when this thing just started.

» That's when Hamilton and Madison and Washington created this Constitutional Congress, the convention. And then the next thing you know, that small little government that was supposed to be restricted created this and this and this. And now we've got what I was just talking about, volumes and volumes of ordinance and all. So, in the end, you guys are going to do what you're going to do. But I'm telling you, boys, we need to shrink this government. We really, really do. We're out of control and it's all from do-gooders wanting to do the right thing. But it's mind over matter. It ain't my money, so it don't matter. Anyway, thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Mr. Maddox. Mr. DuBose. The second and last person that signed up is Matthew Hutchinson. Mr. Hutchinson.

» I'm here to speak tonight on the millage. I just have to say I find it quite ironic. People's sentiments towards the crown in England these days. It's almost like the loyalists never left after the revolution and we're talking about taxation again. It's a little sad. The millage rate is the amount per $1,000 of assessed value that is levied in taxes. Millage rates are expressed in tenths of a penny, meaning one mill is $0.001. For example, on a $200,000 home, a millage rate of $0.002 will equal $400 in taxes owed. Simple math, $0.002 times $200,000. Everybody can do this at home. If we knew what the county was going to assess the value of our home at, which we don't. They haven't been assessed yet.

» The county council and the tax assessor are not telling the citizens that one, the millage is a tax, and two, your property value increases based on the county's assessment. Your taxes are going to increase exponentially. So the more the county puts into the budget, the more they're going to take from the taxpayers to pay for it. It's simple economics, and the council is too cowardly to admit these facts in plain English. Here's an example of what's really going on with the millage increases. The sheriff comes up here and demonizes the public for an increase in police violence under his watch. It's on video. He came up here and did it. He mismanages the sheriff's department, and due to his toxic leadership, drives out good deputies, causing perpetual job openings. Mr.

» Hutchinson, we won't be attacking people here, but you can state the facts, please, sir. Go ahead. Then he comes back to the council during budget season, claiming to need an increase in his millage for pay increases to retain deputies and hire more to replace the ones he's pushed out. This council has basically given the sheriff a blank check for at least the past eight years covering two sheriffs and done nothing to oversee the tax dollars that we're entrusted with, that you were entrusted with.

» Now, I'm not advocating for defunding law enforcement, far from it, but when their portion of the budget is nearly half of all the expenditures, while crime is steadily increasing, lawsuits are being filed and settled at breakneck speed, and we're losing good law enforcement officers, shouldn't the council at the very least ask some hard questions of the sheriff? This is just one example of how the current council has failed its employers, the citizens. The fact that our county council is trying to increase our taxes while the old guard is on the way out, while we're in a time of unprecedented inflation and on the verge of a very real economic collapse, is disturbing to say the least.

» This council's antiquated way of thinking over the past eight years has been resoundingly rejected by the voters of Kershaw County. This budget seems to be nothing more than sour grapes by the outgoing councilman and an attempt to sabotage the incoming administration. This brings me to my next point. Like the chairman, I spent a good portion of my life in the army. I'm not going to go into details about my service, nor will I attempt to make it seem like I've done anything special, but I will say that the general and I both know about intelligence gathering. However, unlike the general, I was on the ground actually doing soldiering.

» I'm sure the folks here all remember the Abu Ghraib unpleasantness in Iraq, but I bet they don't know that our outgoing chairman played a very vital role in this nasty affair. He'll claim that he was tasked with coming up with new training for deploying soldiers, but all of us real soldiers knew that the policy changes were going to tie our hands and make our jobs much more dangerous, which in fact they did. My point in bringing that up is to point out that our outgoing chairman has been working behind the scenes very diligently throughout his career as a bureaucrat to include his time as council chairman to obscure his true colors. I have come across some very troubling information over the past three months statements being made such as I run this county or just wait until January.

» I have even been told of an attempt by the chairman to get back on the ballot in November as a write-in candidate. Is this the type of man our county has seen in public? Sir, we don't discuss politics here. I'll take the critic. I'll use my freedom of speech. Okay. No, we will not talk politics here. Is this the type of man we should be trusting with our heart and treasure? The simple answer is no. To the councilman who will be continuing on to the new county council in 2023, I ask how do you want to start your tenure? Do you want to straddle yourselves with the task of fixing this atrocious budget then or do you want to simply stop it now and start from scratch in January? To the outgoing councilman, I ask what do you want your legacy to be? Mainly I'm speaking to Mr.

» Connell because I know my words are falling on deaf ears with the other three who will undoubtedly vote yes on this millage increase. You may have an opportunity to do the hard right thing over doing the easy wrong thing. You will know it. You all know in your hearts that increasing taxes on in these times is the wrong thing to do. Please do the right thing and vote no on the millage increase. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Mr. Bose. Mr. Chairman, that concludes the public hearing sign-up sheet. And under our rules, if there are other people that wish to participate in public comments, public hearing, please step forward. Please, ma'am, come up. That's all right. Just identify yourself, ma'am, and we'll move right ahead. And bring that microphone dead center so we can hear you. There you go.

» My name's Melody Dowin, and I've lived in Lugoff, my husband and I, for over 25 years. I am not a public speaker. I'm very nervous. But I felt compelled to come here today, not just for myself, but also for people in our county who are having a hard time even putting food on the table. And so about three weeks ago, and I'm going to read from my papers so I can be clear. About three weeks ago, I read about the tax increase in, of all things, Nextdoor app. I was really shocked. I couldn't believe our council would do this to the residents at this time with all the costs going up that we're seeing. For example, our current sewer bill, monthly sewer bill has gone up. I think Camden is struggling with the air electric. Food prices. We just got our home insurance.

» It's going up by a couple hundred dollars. Gas. I mean, you know, we all know we're paying more for everything. So to learn more about what was going on, because quite honestly, I've just sat back and let you all do your job. Because I felt like, you know, you're trustworthy. You're going to do what's best for all the people of the county. And I still do believe that, even though I've heard some things just a few minutes ago. One thing I did was reach out to my councilman, who I didn't know for sure who he was, but it was Jimmy Jones. And I appreciated him, you know, talking with me. And he steered me to the website. And so I did go to the website. And so I went over through the agenda, the minutes from previous meetings. And also Mary answered some questions for me. I appreciate that.

» But based on the timeline, I have some issues. It seems that the tax increase was already predetermined between the second and third final reading of the budget. And I don't think I'm being subjective. I think it's objective. So I'm just going to go through what I read. On May 24th, the council minutes indicated that this was the first reading for the budget. It clearly stated, and I quote, second reading will be a balanced budget. There are no tax increases. It addresses priorities and salaries and removal of the sewer tax and no millage increase. All council members in favor say aye. All of you said you agreed with this. June 14th, the council met for the second reading of the budget. It stated, budget is balanced with no millage increase. Sewer fee is gone.

» And a significant increase in the budget itself. All council members agreed. 628 was the third reading. You know, based on the first two meetings, I would think the public would be confident that there was going to be no new taxes and no new sewer, and the sewer bill was going to go away. However, we were blindsided, as far as I'm concerned, by the council. Because at that meeting, Mr. Tucker proposed to fund the budget with a 5.2 millage increase, and four out of seven council members approved it. And just for the folks here, the council members that did not approve it was Mr. Brazel, Mr. Connell, and Mr. Jones. A 4 to 3 vote that's going to affect every resident in our county financially. I don't think the public had an idea that this would happen.

» And I think some of the members of the council may have even been blindsided. But now let's go to the millage. The first reading in the title only was on July 12th. Nothing specific in the minutes about the amount of the millage. So I had to fall back on what was said on 6-28, that it was going to be 5.2. Then on August 9th, there was a second reading. But there are no minutes posted out there for that council meeting. So I'm not sure. Again, the public's in the dark, because I've been told that all the information would be out there that we could possibly want. Now, not all of us get the chronicle. But I was told there was an article posted, and there was an article on August 12th. And it stated that the millage was actually reduced to 4.5.

» The town of Lugov, however, where I live, is getting charged much more than other parts of our county. And I'm not sure why we're being penalized, because we live in Lugov. But here's the breakdown, in case others are not aware. The millage itself is $30.60. Fire is $20. However, Lugov is $60. I guess we have worse fires than the rest of the county. Solid waste is $43. The millage itself is $50.00. Keeping in mind that the council minutes show that all of you agreed to no new sewer fees. They're also going up, in addition to our monthly bill has gone up. So for every $100,000 home, residents will pay $93.60 per year. But Lugov residents are going to pay $136.00. Because we're special, for some reason. I have heard someone say, this isn't much money, you know, don't worry about it.

» But they're not, obviously, living from paycheck to paycheck. With the economy in the state it's in, the council should be looking at ways to reduce costs for the taxpayer. I disagree with the increased taxes, especially the sewer and the unfair costs to Lugov residents. My family, and many families like me, budget ourselves. And now we're going to remove items that we had planned to do this year. Because of this increase and also the other increases that have happened. That means that wonderful lawn service we were thinking about going with, scratch that, for sure. Even though, you know, we're getting to an age where it's a little difficult for us to do lawn. I think county council really needs to take a look at that and reconsider what you've done.

» As a side note, I did send an email asking some specific questions, which apparently the lawyer has to allow or approve for me to get the information. I was asking about what the total budget was for 2021 and what it is for 2022. I would think that information would be clearly posted for transparency. I wondered if we had surplus dollars from last year's budget. And how much does the increase in taxes actually project to be added to the budget? I mean, we have a lot of new people who have bought new homes that are paying taxes. And other than the county council meeting agenda and minutes on the website, how is the public made aware of upcoming issues? Primarily budget and millage. I did read your Kershaw County values and your mission and everything else.

» Because I'm a half full kind of person, half glass full kind of person. And I believe there's good in each and every one of you. And I don't believe you did anything to cause pain. But I do believe that you need to look at how this was handled. And I agree the budget and the millage should be a combo. You can't do one without the other. When we're at home, we don't do one without the other. We look at the money we have and we base our budget on that. And if we want to add something, then we look at, okay, then how are we going to get that? Or maybe we won't add that to the budget. Ms. Dowling, I really want to hear from you. You've got about another two minutes or so. That's fine. Ms. Dowling, who's keeping the clock? Ms. Dowling, it's okay. I'm not even going to need that. Ms.

» Dowling, take your time. Ms. Dowling, I'm at the end. Thank you, Jimmy. But I was getting at the Kershaw County values. And I'm sure you all know this by heart because that's what you do. The council will be guided by the values of honesty, transparency, courageous leadership, civility, respect, understanding issues, and concerns through active listening. And I believe you missed the boat on this one for transparency and honesty because you had two budget meetings, two budget hearings, first and second reading, no taxes, no mileage increase. And then suddenly there it is. So I have issue with that. And I think you should too. You really should. Thank you. Ms. Dowling, thank you. Can we make sure we have your name, please, ma'am? It's D-O-W-I-N-G. Did I hear that? Ms. Dowling, no, sir.

» It's D-O-W-H-A-N. Like I said, I signed that paper. That was great. Thank you. Mary, did you get that? Okay. Thank you, ma'am. With that, we move to the next item on the agenda. I would like to caution you all. We don't permit these outbursts here. So kindly keep that quiet. Mr. Chairman, point of order. That was not an outburst. That was not an outburst. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Make a ruling on your point of order that was an outburst. With that, we go to the next item on the agenda, which is a public comments. Now, Mr. DuBose, how many people signed up for the public comments? Now, there are five people signed up. Five? Yes. Five people signed up, so they'll at least get five minutes each. Okay. With that, we move into the rules of the public comments, which are slightly different.

» It's an opportunity for the public to share information. There's not a time for debate or questions or answers from counsel. That's why we get your names so we can get back to you after the meeting. It is a time for counsel to receive input. It is not a time for counsel to respond, however. In short, during public comments, counsel will listen to public comments but not comment themselves. Offensive and inappropriate comments will not be tolerated, and comments should be limited to statements and rhetorical questions. If a group would like to speak to counsel or request that a spokesperson be selected and that this person indicate the group he or she is representing on the sign-up sheet. In this case, I don't think we have a group.

» Public comment is a time to discuss issues and not individuals. Other avenues exist for individual and personnel complaints. The public comment period is limited to 30 minutes with five minutes maximum per individual. With that, Mr. DuBose, would you do the honors? Mr. Chairman, the first person that signed up is William Howland. Good evening. My name is William Howland, and my wife Susan and I live at 2021 Forest Drive in Camden. Now, William, I think we have people standing up behind you, too, if you want to say who you're representing as a group, okay? Well, I am here. Give me one second, please.

» I am here to ensure the county commissioners and the county administrator are aware of what I and many residents of Kirkover Hills, these folks back here, consider a significant zoning violation. I live in Camden city limits, and our property is subject to the city of Camden zoning regulations. The property directly behind me, 31 Kirkover Lane, is not within Camden city limits, but is in Kershaw County and subject to Kershaw County zoning regulations. The property at 31 Kirkover Lane is zoned R15, the Kershaw County primary zoning district regulations state that for R15 zoning, the principal use of the land is a detached single family dwelling, limited support facilities at low densities.

» My neighbor, Gina McLean hosted a meeting and informed us that Catherine Gowen, founder and director of final victory animal shelter in Columbia, purchased the property at 31 Kirkover Lane and is moving. And I should say has moved the final victory animal shelter from Columbia and Richland County to 31 Kirkover Lane in Kershaw County. After the meeting, I looked at the website for final victory animal shelter and as Gina McLean stated, at our meeting, the address listed for final victory animal shelter is now 31 Kirkover Lane in Camden. Gina gathered numerous official code violation forms with signatures from neighbors and submitted them to the director of zoning and planning.

» I feel it is important that our county council is aware, particularly district two county council representative, Mr. Tucker and council chairman, Mr. Burns, our representative at large. The final victory animal shelter is an entity. They are incorporated. This is not a loosely organized group of people caring for animals. This is an incorporated nonprofit entity. Their employee identification number is 8217-44847. On the last form 990 available from the IRS tax years 2018 and 2019, this nonprofit entity had a total support of $324,315. This organization is not run from a spare bedroom at 31 Kirkover Lane because there is no home for a spare bedroom at 31 Kirkover Lane. There is no detached single family dwelling on the R15 property. There are only dogs there. Lots of dogs right now.

» I was prepared right now to ask how long the county commissioners and the county administrator were going to allow this to go on. But before the meeting, I learned that a cease and desist order was mailed out. So thank you for the code enforcement. They are doing their job. I was going to address some other issues, but I don't. The zoning and the planning issue is the big one. So I understand it takes time to research code violations and to verify the facts. But my wife and I pray, and I'm sure these folks do, for a speedy answer to this situation. And it appears that that answer is in process. So thank you very much for the work you're doing. Thank you, Cheryl. Thank you very much. Mr. DeVose, who's next up? The next person that signed up is Amanda Stevens. Ms.

» Stevens, please come on up. I believe I also signed up on the wrong sheet. So sorry to advance. This is another millage increase comment. My name is Amanda Stevens. I'm a resident of Elgin in Kershaw County. I'm sure you'll hear from a few others you already have about the tax increase. I'm here to give you statistics on why this should not be even considered. Just today, the CPI numbers were released, and it is as bad as everybody knows that it is. The number the government gives us for inflation is 8.3%. Those of us living in the real world know that that number hides a lot. The real inflation number is more accurately portrayed when you look at the inflation percentages on those items that are required.

» The required purchases for those in households in America are gas, which is up 25%, groceries, which are up 13.5%, and utilities that are up 33%. That brings the actual average inflation of Americans to 24%. Are your wages increasing by 24% to account for this? Ours aren't. In fact, the average wage increase is 3%, and wages have been decreasing for the 17th straight month because of the invasion of our southern border that's driving the wages down. So that means the residents of Kershaw County, on a conservative estimate, are seeing an increase of 21% for the cost of living. Not for fun trips to Target. Not for fun Friday night pizza nights. This is a 21% increase on gas to get to work and food to cook at home for their families. These are not expenses you can do without. 21%.

» Just to put that in perspective, that's $600 a month on average for the $3,000 a month budget. That's average for Kershaw County. $600. What can we do with $600? Now, considering that only 21% of our county residents have advanced college degrees, based on the 2020 census data, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say we're a rural blue-collar county. According to a CBS article that was published, Americans now have to make $74,000 a year to not feel the inflation. $74,000 a year. The median income for Kershaw County, 53. We are getting killed. Our median income, and we are nowhere close to being able to afford this economy. Why in the world, with this grim look at where we stand in our county, would you even consider voting for a tax increase? We don't have the money.

» And the money that you spend is not yours. It is ours. And we don't have it. With Bloomberg stating that one in six Americans are now delinquent on utility payments. In August, how do you think this ends? With Kershaw County being able to have all the fun things in the budget and no issues getting those taxes from us? It's not going to happen. Now, I can assure you that if you do increase taxes to match your wish list of budget items without keeping in mind it is not your money, that every Kershaw County resident will be cursing your name come next year when that tax bill comes in. While you can get away with it for the first year, rest assured, you will be ending your careers by increasing a tax in this economy. We are in a recession.

» There is no question that this country is in a recession. And people that vote to increase taxes during this time do not have their county residents' best interest in mind. And you will be removed. I highly suggest you remember that this country was built on the backs of hardworking Americans that make up this county. And you answer to them, not to anyone else. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Stevens. Thank you very much. Mr. DeBose, please. The next person signed up is Tom Webb III. Mr. Webb, please. I've got a couple things to talk about. 9/11 first. So the anniversary of that dreadful event was Sunday, 21 years. I think we should definitely honor the first responders and never forget the great amount of death that occurred.

» But that event is loaded with twists and turns and intrigues. And I don't think the full story has been told. A lot of other people don't either. Architects and engineers have looked into this thing. There is a website where you can find some of that. I'm not sure about it. I don't use a computer, but I've heard about it. So all these years, they have been trying to figure out what happened and convince people that we don't have the truth. So we're more distrustful of government than we were 21 years ago. I think much more distrustful, with good reason. So I'm not going to tell you what happened, what brought down the Twin Towers. But I will tell you something about Building 7. It was across the street, and it wasn't hit by a plane.

» It's 47 stories high, a very big building, almost as long as a city block. Supposedly, it housed information that would have been used in prosecution of various financial crimes and maybe other things. All gone now, of course, buried in the rubble. But Building 7 was owned by Larry Silverstein, and he leased Twin Towers. So there was a connection. Building 7 stood for seven hours after the Twin Towers went down. It had a little bit of fire in it, probably some debris from the Twin Towers, knocked out some windows and introduced a little bit of fire. According to this little book, they were about like office fires. They weren't great, huge raging infernos. So Building 7 stood and stood and stood and then finally collapsed on its own foundation, just like a demolition would.

» So the question is, of course, what happened? And I'd say it's a handle on the whole thing up there. If Building 7 was actually rigged to go down that afternoon, then what happened to the Twin Towers? There are people who say there are little puffs of smoke coming out of the side of the Twin Towers as the floors fell. That is what they call squibs. It's chargers that break beams. So there are people who say that the Twin Towers were actually brought down by demolition. I don't know, but there's so much intrigues about it that it's likely that we have not gotten the truth yet. Building 7, there's no real explanation of why it went down. It was not hit by a plane. This book is put out by the University of Alaska Engineering Department.

» There was a government investigation of Building 7 and why it collapsed seven years after the event. Funny, there's a lot of sevens in this. So the National Institute of Standards and Technology studied it, and their conclusion was that fire did bring down Building 7, that it was enough fire in there to cause some beams to expand and pop rivets, and that Building 7 leaned a little bit and then it fell in. But the University of Alaska went back and looked at all that information, and here it is. Diagrams, diagrams and calculations. They went at it really hard. And their conclusion was fire did not bring down Building 7. They did not say what it did. I would assume they were afraid to say what it was.

» It doesn't leave much that you could say would have brought a building down that way if it wasn't fire. What was it? It was demolition, more than like. That's just my little Tom Webb conclusion. I guess that's enough about that. The other thing I wanted to talk about is this monstrosity. I'll hold this up so if anybody happens to be looking over my head they can get a look at it. It's approximately .2 million words, diagrams, information, information about us and how to manage us. It's called a comprehensive plan. It's the one that we're under right now. The poor people of Kershaw County, they don't know what a comprehensive plan is. They never heard of it. They certainly don't know what's in it. I would say, as I was a kid, there used to be a radio program that came on.

» And one of the things they said they introduced a program is, "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" Nobody here probably ever heard of that. Well, maybe a few of you older gentlemen. But I would say, what evil lurks in the .2 billion words in a comprehensive? It's a way to manage us without us even knowing what happened to us. It's bad enough that we get time after time, month after month, we get new ordinances that we're supposed to accept. But this thing comes at us like a storm, like a snowstorm of words and paper dropped on our heads. And a lot of it, I guess, is good, but it's like so many things that might be good. It's like a two-edged sword. If the angels were in charge, it would be a good thing. But if devils were in charge, it's a bad thing.

» And I think a lot of us are seeing an awful lot of devils these days. So, I wish that you would ban this 10-year plan. 10-year plan sounds like something that the Soviet Union used to do. 10-year plans and 5-year plans to manage us. I wish you would ban this 10-year plan. But if you can, if it's mandated, there might be a way that you get a real good bargain. It seems that the council has hired an outside firm to give us a comprehensive plan. And who knows what evil lurks in their hearts. Even will it be all from this country? Will Brussels be involved? How many rules and regulations that come from other states? To me, it's an abomination. So, I wish you would ban this 10-year plan.

» And if you have to, if it's mandated, get a really good bargain and get another firm to do it that's much cheaper. And maybe even you could get an individual to do it. And he would do it really cheap. And it would be good for us, for all of Kershaw County. I wish you would get Jeff Maddox to do it. Thank you, Mr. Webb. Mr. DuBose, who's next up, please? The next person signed up is Jeff Maddox. Mr. Maddox, you've been called out. Tom's a little crazy, don't you know? I don't want to run this joint. He makes some good points, though. I think 9/11 was something that woke me up. It woke me up late. But the official story is a lie. I found lies and lies and lies. And I've told you guys this over and over again, that I can't find a thing that government's done that's worthy.

» I want to know how many individuals it takes to make robbery legal. Does it take seven? Does it take some spells on a piece of paper and so many people sign it? This group of individuals out here has no right to come to me and give me a bill, a charge for anything. But suddenly, after some spelling on a piece of paper signed by who knows who, suddenly the collective has the right to steal from me. And then, over the course of years and years of watching the council, different people come and go. It's always the same. We get people coming in here begging for the government to do this and do that. A perfect example of that is the year-long battle of do-gooders to give us a revolutionary war park down here in Camden. The likes of which I drive through on a regular basis.

» And believe it or not, the same five cars are in that parking lot every time I go through there. I've never seen another car parked there. Except when it was dedicated by all the wonderful politicians that gave us the damn thing. Where did they get the money? These people right here. Yeah. I'm trusting this one. Thank you, Russell. Thank you for calling me out on it. I appreciate that. You can stop. Both of you stop. He's right. And I'm sorry, Russell. You can speak your mind. But from this moment forward, we will not cuss. Russell, I appreciate it. And I appreciate you pointing that out to me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Maddox. Go ahead, please. I forgot where I was. I lost my place. I keep trying to figure out where we get this idea that the collective can do anything.

» And, you know, people always tout that the Constitution protects us from government and doesn't allow government to infringe on our rights. Well, do you have a right to property? Not anymore. I don't control property. Control is ownership, basically. I don't control anything anymore. Barely I can control where I go to eat. Henry McMaster, he closed down the eateries and told me I couldn't even go in there. And I had to wear a mask here and there and everything. I'm not free. I just keep trying to figure out where this collective comes from. Is it just part of our imagination? Have we built an immortal being that's always going to rule over us because we can't be our own gods? I just don't understand.

» I guess because God's not there to write it down and spell it and everything, we decided we have to all get together and form our own God. And we obey it and look what it's done and it's going to kill us all. It has multiple times over the years. When I study history, it's just a disaster, a disaster of collective idiocracy. That's why I do this YouTube show called Adventures in Idiocracy because mankind is crazy. We think that we can do this and it's we the people and the work of the people. I hear that prayer often in, in these government bodies, you know, the, uh, pray to God that we do the work of the people. Why are we doing the work of the people? We're supposed to be doing the work of God, but I don't know.

» I wish, I wish some of you could tell me how many individuals it takes to make the illegal legal. If any of y'all ever figured it out, let me know. I appreciate it. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Mr. Dubose. The next person and the last person to sign up is Matthew Hutchison. Mr. Hutchinson. I want to start out tonight by thanking all the citizens to come here tonight. I was expecting it to be almost an empty house as usual. And I'm pleasantly surprised and encouraged by the amount of interaction by the citizens here. Especially want to thank Mr. Tom Webb. Right honorable man. Very wise. I'm always happy to see him. Um, I just, this is popping my, my, my head on September 11th. My son here was laying in his crib. He was just born in May, 2001.

» Um, it took me 11 years to figure out and get the guts to say I didn't want to fight another man's war overseas. And when I left after, uh, 14 years in the military, but, um, I'll leave that there. Referring back to my previous comments on the millage increase, I would like to ask at least just one of the councilmen tonight to make a motion on behalf of the citizens of Kershaw County. That motion would be to bind this council from making any more decisions that would carry on into 2023. Anything from commission appointments to proclamations and tax increases should not be decided on until after January 1st, 2023. It's very clear that these last eight years have set this county up for failure in the future.

» It is also very clear that the citizen voters have completely rejected the outgoing chairman's agenda. I ask that one of you be brave and do the right thing tonight. Let's be done with this nonsense. Let's put our eyes on the future and the troubles that are surely to be coming our way. Thank you, councilman. Oh, I'd also like to offer up. I'm, I'm happy to stay behind tonight. If any of y'all want to speak to me personally, you don't have to call my phone. You don't have to come all the way up to Cassett. Um, I'm in the middle of nowhere where I live. Um, I was hoping this would be the last council meeting I'd ever have to come down into Camden for. Um, but we'll see. I enjoy my peace up in Cassett. And, um, I like to stay out. Except for American Patriot coffee. I had some today.

» It's a great place. I enjoyed that coffee very much. Cheaper than Starbucks. Tastes better, too. And I'm not just trying to kiss up to you, Russell. We can have our conversation afterwards if you ask to. I hope that wasn't a threat, by the way. Uh, thank you, gentlemen. Mary, thank you. And thank you to the citizens. Thank you, sir. Mr. DeVos. That concludes the sign-up list. And that concludes, uh, public comments. We move now to the adoption of the agenda. Is it up on the screen? Yep. Uh, can we have a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Uh, Mr. Gardner, a second? Second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second? Second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second? Second.

» Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, a second. Second. Uh, all right. Very good. Mr. Gardner, any discussion? Uh, seeing there is none, we move to a vote. All those in favor, so signify. And it's unanimous. We move to the second item, which is August 11th. A call meeting. It's at tab C. Uh, Mr. Gardner, you are absent. Uh, with that, can we have a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve, Mr. Mr. Tucker, a second? I'll second it. Okay. Mr. Tomlinson, any discussion? Very good. We move to a vote. All those in favor, signify by raising your hands. Would you restate the motion, please? It's approving the agenda, the, um... August...

» 11 August minutes, Jimmy. It's at tab C. All those in favor, so signify. Uh, with Mr. Gardner abstaining. It's unanimous, Mary. We move now to a resolution of Kershaw County supporting the South Carolina Revolutionary War. Okay, here's the big word. Okay, here's the big word. Sestercentennial Commission and recognizing and approving of the Kershaw County 250 Committee. That's what Sestercentennial means. It's at tab D. I'll read that, and then we'll take a motion. A resolution of Kershaw County supporting the American Revolutionary War 250 Commission and recognizing approval of the Kershaw County 250 Committee.

» Whereas South Carolina created the South Carolina American Revolution Commission 250th Anniversary, also known as SC 250, and whereas the mission of SC 250 Commission is to celebrate and promote South Carolina's role in the American Revolution by educating, engaging, and inspiring South Carolinians and visitors, and whereas the Commission is seeking partnerships with counties and municipalities to further that mission, and whereas the partnership will be formed by creating a local committee called the Kershaw County 250 Committee, and whereas the Kershaw County 250 Committee will focus on important events, people, and places during the Revolutionary Era with Kershaw County to promote, observe, and celebrate Kershaw County's role in the American Revolution by educating, engaging, and inspiri

» ng South Carolinians and visitors, and whereas local projects such as creating visitable historical sites to attract tourists, supporting celebrations, restoring local historical markers, rebuilding local historical infrastructure, and so on, will enhance historical tourism opportunities. Now, therefore, be it resolved that Kershaw County Council, number one, hereby recognizes the committee as its official committee, will partner with the South Carolina American Revolutionary, here I go, Sester Centennial Commission, SC 250, will support initiatives of the commission, will support the Kershaw County 250 Committee in its local efforts to educate, engage, and inspire South Carolinians and our visitors, thereby enhancing historical tourism, in Kershaw County.

» Can we have a motion, please? So moved. Mr. Gardner, a second? Second. Second from Mr. Brazel. And with that, we'll move to discussion, but we'll begin by hearing from the committee. Ricky, would you come forward, please? I introduce Ricky Good from the Rev War Center, and who has been our pioneer on this. Would you introduce those who came with you, Ricky, if you have an opportunity? We actually have several people. Ms. Heather Hawkins is with the 250th Commission out of Columbia. We have Sherry Davis, who is our, there's a Kershaw chap for DAR representative. Mr. Tim Lord, who is not only a wonderful friend to, sorry, wonderful friend to all of us who are interested in the American Revolution, but he's also representing Grace Episcopal. We have Mr.

» Glennon Abinett, who is representing the American Legion. Hope Cooper, who is here as a very interested citizen. Susie Sale, which she is our tourism director for Kershaw County and the city of Camden. And Johnny Miller, who is representing the historic Kershaw County Historical Society. And who, yes, sorry, Carrie Briggs, who is our executive director at Historic Camden. Have I missed anyone? Thank you so much. Lauren Reeder with Kershaw County. And Mr. Sammy Tucker, who is also graciously agreed to volunteer with us for this particular campaign. I believe you have a number of slides. Would you like? Very few. And it's really just to explain what we're doing and why we're asking this from you.

» The Kershaw County 250 committee, we wanted to support the goals of the South Carolina American Revolution Sester Centennial Commission. Thereafter, always called the 250th, even though it took me months to learn how to say Sester Centennial. It's a great word. But this committee would be set up in order to liaison with the commission to help the commission with what their plans and role is for the upcoming 250th anniversary of the American Revolution. Now, while it's going to be a huge deal on July 4th, 2026, in reality, it's a huge deal for the next 10 years, because there are a lot of events and places and people that we can talk about for the next decade.

» And we really, the commission, the committee, all of us who are involved in this, we want to make sure that Kershaw County and South Carolina are recognized and is understood just how important the American Revolution was when it was fought here. Now, I am happy to tell you, it was won, as the Liberty Trail says, in the swamps, fields, and roads of the southern back country and low country here in South Carolina. Had South Carolinians not stepped up and kept the British tied down, who knows what would have happened. And these are the things that we want to make sure that our own people know, that tourists know, that, well, we just want everyone to realize just how important the American Revolution was here. And the only way to do that is to tell them.

» And the only way to do that is to start doing research and to, well, celebrate our history, all of our history. And this committee does not want to tell your story. We want all of the communities here in Kershaw County. We have the mayors from Bethune and Elgin and Camden who are on board. We have Mr. Tucker. We want to make sure that each community here in Kershaw County tells us their story so that we can then work with the 250th commission in order to promote that story to work with Kershaw County. School District to make sure that the school kids are learning that story. So that's the reason for the committee, the committee that we have set up and I'm sure the numbers are going to change because as I said, we do have 10 years to go, but we've got to start.

» So we have representatives again from the cultural heritage organizations, from museums, from local officials, the school district, and also just interested citizens. We will be reaching out throughout our time to other people who are interested in the revolution or interested in promoting Kershaw County. We're not, we are always going to be asking for assistance, for help. The commission sent me an email asking about visitable revolutionary war sites in Kershaw County. And my first thing was, let me ask, because I don't know everything, believe me. So I asked our committee members, I asked the mayors, and they're telling me we're going to ask the local historians. So that is really what we want to do is our goals. Sorry.

» To encourage, plan, and coordinate county's activities, not to do it from the top down, but to do it from the bottom up. So what people, how they want to do their celebrations, we want to help them any way we can. We want to liaison with the commission and really just celebrate Kershaw County's role and South Carolina's role in the American Revolution. The reason for our request of county council for the resolution is that the 250th commission has asked that each county have one official committee. And we want to be that committee because we love Kershaw, we love Camden and Elgin and Bethune, we love South Carolina. And yes, we're all history nerds, so we want to tell everyone all about the American Revolution as it was here in South Carolina.

» And so we just ask you to pass this resolution for us. And if you have any questions, we'd be happy to answer them. As I said, Heather is here with the 250th commission, so she could certainly help us all. Thank you. Discussion, please. Anybody? Tom, go right ahead. Yeah, thank you, Ricky, for this. We really appreciate the push for this. It's very important that we study history so that we don't repeat it, as they say. And we appreciate you taking the lead on this. Thank you very much. Mr. Breisel. I particularly find this interesting. Thank you for coming and presenting to us. There's a lot more in Kershaw County than we realize. I've been here all my life. Just the other day, next to a restaurant I saw. I think it was a militia storage facility. It was a small building.

» Never paid much attention. I'd eaten at that restaurant a lot. So I finally stopped and read. It was where guns and black powder and that sort of thing was kept during the Revolutionary War times. But I find all of these things interesting. I actually look forward to learning more about it and learning more about what is here in Kershaw County. I think this is a neat project. So thanks for doing this. We appreciate it. Other comments? Sammy. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to thank the committee as well. Miss Rickey, you and all who is on it. And Miss Cooper, who has done such great work in this community and in this county throughout her entire career. Look forward to helping in any way that I can. Just let me know what my duties and responsibilities will be moving forward.

» And we'll roll our sleeves up. But congratulations on the resolution and looking forward to the work to come. Thank you. Other comments? Mr. Chairman? Yeah, Mr. Connell. I think this effort to educate in Kershaw County has been going on for a long time. I remember back in the Seagull program in grade school where they used to let us actually go at Historic Camden and make musket balls. They had Seagull back then? They did have Seagull back then. They had it before then. I think they've restricted the able to play with fire and hot molten metal requirements. We used to make musket balls. And so I remember that and also taking my kids by there to learn about our history as a country. So thank you for this effort tonight. Other comments? Patriot Coffee.

» I wonder where that name came from, Mr. Razzle. I would tell you the war began in Boston, but we finished it here with the most battles. Most people killed and wounded. We have a story to tell about how the war was won in our county and our state. Immensely proud of it. There are money grants that are associated with this. The commission will help us get those grants to tell the story and improve our county. The first event that I know of other than the daily and weekly events that are sponsored at Historic Camden and at the Rev War Center is over 2,000 reenactors are going to be on this county. And they come here every year. And it's the largest reenactment of the revolution anywhere in the United States. So we have a story to tell. We've got the means to tell it.

» And incidentally, the battlefields are being improved so that story can approximate that story that's told at Gettysburg and other places like that of the Civil War merit. So with that, I think we're ready to vote. No further discussion. All those in favor, so signify. And Mary, it's unanimous. Thank you very much to the commission. Off we go. Thank you very much. With that, we move to the next item on the agenda, which is -- let me just pull it over here. Would you put it up on the screen, please? Thank you. Put the agenda -- yeah, that's what we want to see. It's a resolution, third reading of an ordinance setting the millage rate for Kershaw County for the fiscal year beginning 1 July 2022.

» It's a tabby in the electronic books, which we apparently don't need because I think you have it on the screen out there. Whereas Kershaw County is authorized under the Home Rule Act and the Code of Laws to set the millage rate. And whereas the county collects millage by special purpose districts within the boundaries. And whereas this ordinance sets, approves, and establishes this millage rate for the year commencing 1 July. And therefore it be ordained as you see on the screen. With that, can we have a motion to approve? Mr. Chairman, make a motion that we approve third reading on the ordinance for budget 2022-23. Mr. Tucker, a second? Second. Mr. Gardner, discussion. Mr. Tucker, you want to lead us? Thank you, Mr. Chairman and my colleagues.

» I just want to say that I know that this has been a hot topic and very heavily debated. There's a lot of folks agree/disagree on some of the procedures and stuff that was taking place. But I do want the public to do understand that we're a third away into our budget now. And this is the way that we pay our bills. Without setting this millage tonight, we'll default into the way we will pay our bills and create more havoc and chaos. And not only for those reasons, but for the reasons that I stated when we set the budget, I will be supporting this tonight. Thank you. Mr. Gardner. I agree. This is a long process. It started about six months ago to get the budget going. And our budget, I know people have talked about the balanced budget and those sort of things. But we start with workshops.

» We start with our apartment heads coming in, asking for the things that they ask for. And essentially, there's six or eight million dollars that they ask for that we don't give them, that you don't know about. And this is their budget. This is -- we take those numbers that they give us, and that's how we come up with the budget. It's not our budget. It's the budget that our department heads come up with. And first reading is entitled. We don't have numbers for it. Second reading, we get the numbers. That's why most of the amendments are made at third reading, because we just get the numbers at second reading. And that's the process. And this process tonight, instead of the millage, finalizes that. And that's where we are tonight, and I plan on supporting that. Thank you.

» Other comments, please. Go ahead, Russell. Mr. Braswell, go right ahead. Everything Mr. Gardner said is true. We've had some debate and conversation about how we set the budget. However, I think maybe moving forward, we should change the process just a little bit if we can. And I think we can. As a matter of fact, I feel certain we can. We talked about organic growth, natural growth from homes being built, reappraised, transactions, homes being worth more money. And we really don't know what that number is. He's very correct in that. We don't know how much natural growth in our revenue cycle that we have. Say if our revenue was $300 million last year. Well, we don't know if it was 301 or 302 or 303 at this point. So what we're doing is we're forecasting.

» So what I'd like to propose is look at a five-year average. Let's look at 21, let's look at 20, 19, so forth and so on. And let's find out without increases, what would we have? Would we have a 2.5% increase, a 3% increase? And I think we can formulate a budget based on cost averaging in a year-over-year annual basis. So we're looking into that. I think next year we'll have more data. We'll look back at the data. And maybe we can form budgets that fit that number instead of in reverse. So I won't be able to support the budget tonight, but I appreciate everyone who is involved and works hard to get us to where we're at. Thank you very much. Other comments? If I may. Mr. Jones, please. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the county council. You know, I sit up here and I listen.

» I've been here for a while. I listen to the folks who get up here and speak. I listen to the hardships. I hear what they're saying. We're in the worst times ever. And you know, for anybody to think that I'm going to vote for this middle decrease of this budget tonight, they don't know me very well. Because one, this county council left me out. Four people on this council organized, met, decided what this budget was going to be. I had no information on that. Neither did Mr. Connell. Neither did Mr. Brazel. So it was a 4-3. So I will not be supporting it. And you know what I love more than anything else is when I hear some folks get up in the public speaking and they say they're told to calm down or we're not going to talk politics into public speaking or individuals.

» Unless you're talking about me. If you're talking about me, they won't interrupt. Like the farmer's market coming here the last time, five people, when they were involved in politics against the chairman-elect. Well, the next time they come I'm not going to be as polite and nice. But no, I will not be voting for this nonsense tonight. I don't like the process it was done in. And I'm looking forward to the new leadership coming in here. And let me tell the new leadership something right now. I've been here 16 years. You better be ready to produce next year because the people have trusted you and put you in office. We won't be able to blame anybody else. We'll be able to blame ourselves. Thank you. Thank you very much. Other comments? Mr. Chairman. Mr. Connell.

» So, I'm going to have to support this millage increase tonight. And while I appreciate the personal appeals and your request for me specifically to vote against it, I'd like to explain why ultimately I think it has to make sense. Some of the new faces I saw tonight had outstanding comments. It really did. And I wish that we'd heard some of those during the actual budget process. In many ways, the ship sails after the budget is set. I see people shaking their heads no, but if you were to ask the administrator, you'd find out that the salary increases have already been instituted. Is that correct, Mr. Administrator? Yes, sir. Yeah. And so, what's in the budget is already being spent. It's no secret that I disliked and argued heavily against several of the amendments in that budget.

» Perform more process or substantive issues. But practically, this is what the law requires, as I understand it, from our county attorney and Mr. Administrator. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The tax notices are required to go out by November 15th, 60 days before the January 15th late notice or late date. That's what I understand. And so, when I talk to the professionals that advise us, including the county attorney and administrator, if the millage does not get approved tonight, then what's required is the budget gets reopened. You go through three readings in a public hearing, and then the millage has to be voted on again, three readings in a public hearing.

» And any council member up here, based on the complexity of the budget prior to that, would have the right to request budget sessions, additional information on sewer or other issues, which puts us back to March of earlier this year, or even sooner, even earlier. So, right now, the county is spending savings that it has and relies on the funds to start coming in based on the January landing date and the notices going out. When I asked the county auditor, can you get the notices out in time, the response is if the millage is not approved and doesn't move forward as required by statute, they won't be able to send the notices out on time, and essentially makes us not comply with what the law requires.

» So, I have urged at multiple meetings, and I hope that we'll actually do it, and that the staff will bring recommendations to council on aligning the budget and the millage, so that folks who are interested in either topic are required to show up or tune in through social media or otherwise, and have input when it really matters. Not to say that any of the input tonight doesn't matter, because it's all awesome, but the budget determines when the dollars start getting spent, and they're already being spent. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Other comments? All right. Very good. I noticed we have the treasurer here. EMS is here. Jim Edge, you're here. We have the county clerk from the courthouse. We have the new deputy administrator. We have our attorneys here. We've got, I said the treasurer here.

» I can't see them all. Fire chief. Fire chief. Yeah, fire chief's here too. And all those things are very much hanging the balance for their benefit, because pay rises needed to happen for them. And secondly, our unavoidable mission is to provide for public safety for fire, police, 9-1-1, and all those other capabilities, and they don't come cheap. And we took care of those things in this budget. And in the meantime, we cut the county debt in half. Cut it in half. So we've improved our financial position, and we've taken care of public safety, and we've taken care of our people. And that's what we have to do. And that's why I'm supporting this budget. With that, I'm ready to call the question. All those in favor, signify by raising your hand. Mr. Tucker, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Burns, and Mr.

» Connell. And those opposed, please signify Mr. Jones, and Mr. Tomlinson, and Mr. Brazel. The millage passes, and we move to the next item. Thank you very much. The next item is the third reading of an ordinance, which is the codification enabling ordinance. And we're at last there. I don't know how many years it took us to get there, Mr. DuBose. It's the third reading of an ordinance, adopting and enacting a new code for Kershaw County, providing for the repeal of certain ordinances not included, providing for the penalty for the violation thereof, and so on. In other words, we're going to update and automate and modernize our codes. With that, can we have a motion to approve? I give you the honor, Mr. Connell. Yeah, I'll make that motion, Mr. Chairman. And we have a second. Second. Mr.

» Tucker, any discussion? Do you want to lead, Ben? Sure, Mr. Chairman. One of the most important ways for folks to familiarize themselves with laws, rules, or regulations is to have online access to it. And this would be part and parcel with the codification project, too. Previously, if you wanted to research, or challenge, or look at anything that you needed to appeal in Kershaw County, you might have to show up, talk to Ms. Mary or someone else, and pay a significant amount to make copies, and get a large binder full of records or documents that might apply to your issue. Between codification and this update, people now should have access online, is that correct? Yes, access is concluded tonight.

» Correct, okay, so people have access online in a searchable format where they can easily look at the rules or regulations that might apply to their particular issue, whether it's zoning, code enforcement, we've heard some of that tonight, animals, you name it. It'll be searchable online so that you can inform yourselves, educate yourselves on the issues that you care about, and either strengthen your position or negate one you don't like that the government has taken. So I support it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Tucker. Ditto. Other comments? Yes. You still want to print them off? Mr. Jones, go right ahead. Thank you. I'll just tip my hat to Mr. Connell on this issue. I think he's been working on this for two years, three years. Mr. Jones, I thought it was going to take six months.

» Well, you know, it's taken five years and having to remind staff to do it three times. That's a shame. But good job tonight. Other comments? With that, we move to a vote. All those in favor, so signify. It's unanimous. Glory. Hallelujah. Thank you, everybody. Well done. It's a small victory. Thank you very much. With that, we go to the next item, which is a series of new business. Item number one, Boards and Commissions Appointments. It's at tab G, and we'll just take them as they come up. And I'll ask for nominations and so on of that nature. The first one is the Boards and Commissions for the A-Tax Committee. I have some comments to make there. But can we have a motion to reappoint Amy Kynard, please? Make a motion to reappoint Ms. Amy Kynard. We have a second, please? Second.

» Who is the second? I didn't hear. Okay, you've got Mr. Tucker and Mr. Connell married. Did you get that? Any discussion? I have one point to make, and that is, you can see we have a number of vacancies. I would first like to thank, again, Brantley Tomlinson for having stepped up for these last few years. The compliments keep coming in from the members of the committee on your fine job. But now that you're a chairman on the council, you can no longer serve. So I'd ask you all to help us find other names. With that, any further discussion? Seeing there is none, move to a vote. All those in favor signify Ms. Kynard is unanimously reappointed. Thank you very much. And then we have Beth Ford, who is presently in Jerusalem, literally. Can we have a motion to reappoint her? So moved. Mr.

» Gardner, a second? Second. For Mr. Tucker, discussion? Seeing there is none, we move to a vote. All those in favor, so signify. And it's unanimous. And we have no more appointees or names against this. It's a very particular qualification list, as you can see, that have to be in the hospitality, and hotel, and food industry. With that, we move to the next item on the agenda. Please, sir, if you bring it up. The Clean Community Commission. This has been a huge success on the county. Twice a year they go out, but they also operate 24 and 7, working with the sheriff and the litter control officer, and in the schools and churches with volunteers. It's an amazing organization. With that, we'll move to a reappointment of Becky Robinson. It's in District 3.

» Can we have a motion to reappoint? I'll make that motion. Thank you, Ben. Second, please. Second. Second for Mr. Tucker. Any discussion? No, that's generally just de facto appointed by Elgin, but I spoke with her today, so she's good. Thank you. Thank you very much. With that, we move to a vote. All those in favor, signify. And it's unanimous. We move down to, I think, Mary, I got to keep up with you here. Mr. Chairman, can you go back to the Clean Community Commission, please? Yeah. Okay. We're still there? It's all blank. Yeah. Mary, can you check with Mr. Gardner and Ms. Gardner and Ms. Delk? Possibly. I have a reappointment for Ms. Delk. On Christy Gardner, she is from Bethune. She has resigned, and I will be at the Bethune Town Hall on Thursday. They're going to give us another name.

» Okay? As you know, we have one from each of the towns and the city, and then we have them also by district. And boy, are they active and helpful. So we move past Christy Gardner to Pam Delk. Can we, Mr. Connell, would you like to reappoint? Yeah, I make a motion that we reappoint Pam Delk to the Clean Community Commission. Very good. Can we have a second? Second. Do you have a surprise discussion? I'll just say, she's out of town, but many thanks to Pam. She served as past chair and at times current chair. And hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of bags of trash have been picked up through this Clean Community Commission's efforts. I mean, it's great to hear, but it's also kind of embarrassing. If you think about it, you just want people to take personal responsibility and not litter.

» After all, I made the comment to our chairman of that organization that we've policed up hundreds of miles of road, but the toughest four inches is between the ears of some of our citizens who don't give it a second thought when they pollute. I see we have Tom Webb here. Tom is a member. Thank you, sir, for being here. And thank you for your unbroken service to this organization. So with that, we move to a vote. All those in favor signify. And it's unanimous. And would someone pass on to Pam our congratulations? Thanks. We next move to the library board. Can you pop it up for us? Very good. With that, we have, I think, two names, three names to replace. That includes Johnny Carnegie, who is the chairman.

» With that, can I look to Tom Gardner to make a recommendation? I would like to nominate Bob Gin Georgie to the library board. I make a note there that he is in District 6, which is Tom's district. Can we have a second? Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Are we nominating or are we making a motion for him? I'll rephrase. We'll make a motion. All right. There we go. Okay. Thank you. Can we have a second, please? Second. Thank you, Mr. Tucker, for policing up the language here. Any discussion? Seeing there is none, we move to a vote. All those in favor, so signify. And that is unanimous for Bob G. and Georgie. The next one is in your district, Brandt. Can you make a nomination, please, sir? Yes, sir. I would like to nominate Dr. John Ellington to be on the Kershaw County Library Board.

» That would be for District 5, is that correct? That is correct. Very good. With that, can we have a second? Second. All right. For Mr. Tucker. Any discussion? Yes. I spoke with Dr. Ellington earlier today. He's actually on the way to Louisiana duck hunting. He wished he could be here. He works for the animal shelter. He's the veterinarian there. He does a lot of good things in our county. I know he'll do great things for this board. It seems contrary to the mission. Any further discussion? Thank you, Brandt. All those in favor, signify by raising your hand. And it's unanimous. We move now to district section. You see here on the board that we've got a lot clustered in a number of places. I look to Mr. Tucker now to make the next nomination. I'd like to make a motion that we approve Dr.

» Kristin Christie as the next commissioner on the library board. Thank you. And can we have a second? Second. For Mr. Gardner, thank you very much. Discussion? That takes clear of all those. Let's all move to a vote. All those in favor, so signify. And, Mary, it's unanimous. And the library board moves ahead. I will want to make a comment as the chairman. We have a wonderful person named Annette Hammond, who is very active in your district, Ben, with Father's House Church and also blanketing families. She's there every weekend. She's a real Kershaw County hero. But, unfortunately, she doesn't live in Kershaw County. She lives in Richland County under that zip code. And she is asked to be considered. I see we do have members of the library here today.

» And, surely, Annette, that quality can be put to work. But, under our rules, she can't be on the commission. All right. So, we move from the library board. May I have a -- Go ahead, Jimmy. Thank you. I'd like to recognize Councilman Russell Brasel and Chairman Gwynne for really staying involved and getting involved with the library when things come up. I just want to say thank you as a parent and grandfather and everything else. Ditto. That was well done. I would do appreciate it. With that, I think we can move forward to the next one, right? Recreation? No, planning. I'm sorry. I'm off board here. Let me see if I can move back. I have to move back. Planning Commission. Mr. Harkins has submitted his request to be reappointed. He is in Russ Brasel's district. He's in two.

» Or is he in two, Mary? Which one is he in? It says two here. You got -- Yeah, but I think that's in your district now, Russell. I think he's now in your district. But we don't know that. Harborview Road. I won't have a problem if he makes a motion. What Mr. Brasel has asked for is he would like to speak to Mr. Harkins before we reappoint. Appreciate that. Okay. Well, Russell has asked me for that and I would suggest, I was just going to get to that point, that we'll bring up Mr. Harkins on the next go around. With that, we also now have Kate Denton has resigned and I turn to Mr. Gardner to fill that for his district. Mr. Gardner. I'd like to make a motion to appoint Robert Horton to the Planning Commission. Very good. Can we have a second? Second. Very good. Any discussion? Okay.

» Very good. We move to a vote. All those in favor signify. Thank you very much. I would also note that Mary just notified me that Mr. Blackman, who is -- let's see, where is he, Mary, on the thing here? He's district one, I believe. But let's see if we can sort that out and make sure we got that right, okay? He has resigned and so we'll be replacing him in addition to Mr. Harkins. Yes, sir. And hopefully we can do that up in the next couple of meetings. Okay, fellas? Mr. Chair, point of order. Yeah, go ahead. And so that clarification is not based on him moving but it's based on the new census lines and the districts we're on? Okay. And we'll have to figure that out. But I thank you all, Mr. Jones, Mr. Connell, and Mr. Brasel, for your attention to that particular thing.

» I'll tell you, for those watching, it looks like we're going through this very fast. But I will tell you, Ms. Mary and all of us up here have been working this very hard. And having volunteers come forward is absolutely essential to the success of these boards and commissions upon whom so much responsibility rests. So I want you to know that even though we're going through this fairly quickly, there's been a lot of work put into this and a lot of read-aheads. And what's the next one up? The Recreation Committee. And I'll have a nomination here. And I believe, Mr. Brasel, you may have one against Kenneth Lawson's departure. Do you want to take further time on that? Yes, I'm not prepared to. Yeah, I don't think we have a name. I haven't. There's one name in here and that's Mr. Culp.

» And it's been suggested by several of you that I put him up as my at-large nominee. So, Russell, we'll need your help to find another replacement. Maybe. I think it's District 2, though, right? Yeah. So, I'm going to make the nomination. Jeff Carraway, who has served as our chairman honorably and very well indeed, as I indicated, his request to be removed and go back to running the high school. So, my nomination is Mr. Culp. Can I ask for a second? Second. Okay, we have a second. Any discussion? All right. All those in favor, signify by raising your hand. Mr. Culp has approved. Just to summarize, we've got at least two or three that need to be worked on. And I think Ben has already stepped up with an idea of somebody on the A-Tax Committee.

» If any of you have any more ideas, let's go after it. Okay. With that, I think we're done with that particular item. What's the next item on the agenda? M-O-U. Planning and zoning with Bethune. Planning and zoning, M-O-U. With that, I have to depart on a business trip and I turn the gavel over to Mr. Tucker. We're down on new business and item number two, planning and zoning, M-O-U with Bethune. Mr. I-T-Guy, I hope you're on the correct page. There you go. Fab H. This is an ordinance and an agreement between Bethune and Council. And Mr. Administrator, do you want to explain or have anything to- Who put it on the agenda, Vice Chair? Sure. It doesn't state. Oh, I'm sorry. You did. I'm sorry. Correct. Councilman Jones, excuse me. Thank you.

» At this time, I am going to turn this over to you, Danny Templer, because Danny has been working on this pretty hard and hopefully he will be able to give clarification as to where we need to go on this in the future. Yes, sir. And I appreciate it. So this is here for discussion because it has come up that in this previous agreement, our planning and zoning was helping Bethune's needs as it relates to building to do the planning. This didn't explicitly describe us performing the duties of building inspection. Though it was brought to my attention, they have a few items that need to be inspected now. So I figured we would just jump in and help them out and help them come up with a long-term solution.

» But one hitch in that is that Bethune does not have and has not adopted an international building code as a standard for us to inspect. So as it stands now, I spoke with the mayor up there, we will allow them to get their international building code adopted in their own jurisdiction up there. We will help them with whatever they have outstanding and then we will perform these services for a period of 30 days. And from the time we get them up to essentially nothing on the books behind in rears for 30 days up until they contract with someone to perform this for them. Or if we just get finished before them, whatever comes first, 30 days or a contract is in place. So that's what we have going forward. If I may, Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. Go ahead. Mr. Jones.

» Also, working with the mayor, the mayor's happy about this. Yes. Yes. Right. Any further? Mr. Jones, question to you is, you just want it for discussion or did you want to vote on anything tonight? No, there's nothing to vote on tonight. Okay. All right. Danny, Danny, Mr. Templer has done a great job, an outstanding job in jumping right into this head first and identifying how to fix it. So a couple of questions for you, Mr. Templer. One being we're not dropping them cold turkey, so they're not just left holding these permits that have been requested. And two, is there other municipalities or towns that's using an outside services? Yes, there is. So Elgin contracts out with an individual. The load on or their need for this type of service is very light, so they're able to contract out.

» We have a contract with a company I believe is called BuildSafe or SafeBuilt as a kind of a point of redundancy for us, should anything happen to our staff, that they can come in and support our needs as it relates to building inspections. So we put them in contact with Bethunes. We feel like that will be a good partnership for them. And that will then create a long-term solution so they can just contract with those individuals and perform their own. Thank you, sir. Any further discussion for Mr. Jones or Mr. Templer? No. I'm done. Any questions? Okay, let's move right on down to council briefings. And I think, Mr. Gardner, you had the prayer, so we will start with you. Tonight I have no report. Okay. Councilman Brousel. Well, it seems like I'm kind of loud tonight. This mic. This mic.

» You guys turned mine up extra loud or what? Maybe we did. I'd like to express a couple of things. I really appreciate being able to walk in here and having a positive attitude when I show up. I had a pretty good day. Went and did a few things. Did some work. I'm kind of a glass half full kind of guy. You know, we get beat up and railed a lot for being in this line of work. And that's okay. We can handle it. But I do want to express moving forward. And Jeff and I have known one another for 30 years. Jeff, I want to say thank you for speaking up. I think that's the beauty of where we live. The freedoms we have. That we can speak. And we can speak abundantly about how we feel about certain things.

» But starting today, if anybody cusses at that mic, I'm going to ask that gentleman over there wearing that patch on his sleeve to escort you out of this room. And that's just the way it's going to be. I'm done with it. I'm done walking in here and listening to people cuss while there are children watching, ladies in the room. It's not going to happen anymore. You can like me for it or you can dislike me for it. That's your business, not mine. So with that being said, I appreciate the differences in opinion. But cursing in this room will no longer be tolerated. Thank you. That concludes my report. Thank you, man. Mr. Brazel. Mr. Connell. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. I was just going to mention that I served on the First Amendment Law Review when I was in law school.

» It was one of the things I enjoyed the most. Tax law, I enjoyed the least. For obvious reasons, but the First Amendment Law Review was awesome because we got to hear from people that some of the topics you liked, some of them you didn't like at all, but it taught you about the First Amendment. And I actually have a very wide view of the First Amendment. And I actually have a very wide view of the First Amendment. It has a very wide berth. Fighting words, you're not supposed to be able to say those. You can't shout fire in a crowded room. Those kind of things that might incite or create immediate injury. But some curse words are protected. It's all contextual. A lot of it's in the eye of the beholder.

» But I've always thought the First Amendment should be given a wide berth in part because if someone is saying something foolish, heaven forbid, they reveal themselves as a fool. And counter speech can always be used. But, you know, I didn't mean to wax a constitutional law professor tonight. But I've always found the First Amendment to be one of the most important rights that we have because if you can't talk about your faith, if you can't talk about the things you believe in, if you can't express those ideas, if you can't express your concern about your right to vote on particular issues and talk about them intelligently and hear counter speech, what's the point? Really, what is the point? You can't get to any of the other steps and you just have government have its thumb on top of you.

» Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. That's all I have. Thank you, sir. Mr. Connell. So what did you say? Do you want me to? You're farred or against it? The First Amendment? No. 100%. Mr. Brazel. Am I for Mr. Brazel? His comments. No, I support Mr. Brazel entirely. Well, let me just say this. Mr. Brazel and I've had this conversation about the media was getting out of control, guys. No question about it. I had planned to say the same thing you said, Russell. You beat me to it. And I want to thank you. I appreciate that. And I also want to thank Mr. Hutchinson and Ms. Jeff Max. You know, they got their points across. They didn't challenge you on that. Look, we've got to have some order. We've got a new county council coming on board in January and I'm looking for some great things to happen.

» And so just thank you so much. Appreciate it. That's all I had. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Thomason. I have nothing. Okay. All right. I promise I won't keep you long. I want to say, and I know this is probably the administrator's thunder, but I want to say to Mr. Jarrell first, congratulations. I'm very excited and looking forward for the great things that you'll be bringing to this team and lifting it up even further. And I also want to say congratulations to Ms. Lauren Branham Reeder. You can always be a Branham to me. Congratulations, too, on your new promotion. And looking forward to you doing amazing things on the team as well. And it's good to have a more friendly face in that line that we have to go to as staff. So congratulations to all of you.

» I also want to tell you that just today I was on a conference call with the COP. And we had what we call shelf life, the Black River Road project. That's out there by Industrial Park because of the census. We were waiting on information, and we still don't have all the data back from the census. But the way it looks, it's going to look very positive to us. So that's going to be put back in our tip with guide shares so we can widen that highway and make it safer for all the homes that are being built down in there and the industrial park. So that's looking very favorable for Kershaw County and Camden. And I'm really excited about that. So I wanted to share that news with you. That was done today, this afternoon, around 1,500, 1530 hours. At this time, that will conclude my report.

» And I will go down to the administrator briefing. Thank you, sir. Yes, I would like to formally introduce Gerald Blanchard as the Deputy Administrator. So I'm excited to have him on board. I didn't say what he was. Would you stand up, Gerald, so we can see how big you are? As well as Lauren Reeder, who has been named the Assistant Administrator. So this rounds out my staff here, and I'm excited for what they bring to the table. I think they both bring unique skill sets that will be complementary to what I need to have accomplished in my role. And one last thing, I hope you all are enjoying these updates here. This has been a -- it's taken a while to get this kind of put in place here. I hope it enhances the experience for you all as well as the public.

» There's a few more things we have coming, but those will more so make the full agenda packet more available to the people in the crowd with QR codes and things like that. So I'm certainly open to suggestions if something can be improved, if something can be tweaked. But I certainly would like to hear from anyone. But I hope you all enjoy this. And that is my report. Thank you there, Mr. Administrator. A legal briefing, Mr. Dubose? Mr. Tucker, I have nothing except the executive session involves legal advice regarding pending litigation. I don't anticipate any action will be taken as a result of it, but I would like Mr. Morgan to also attend that. Okay. I see Mr. Morgan out there. Okay. I think the administrator is asking for an executive session? Yes, on an employee matter. Okay.

» All right. So is there a motion to go on the executive session for an employee matter and a contractual? Depending on litigation. And litigation. So moved for stated reasons. All of the above. Second on those two points. Okay. Motion is made by Mr. Gardner. Seconded by Mr. Connell. Yes, sir. Okay. Any discussion? Yes. Yes, sir, Mr. Dubose. I need some clarification. Just some clarification. Something that brought to my attention this evening. Mr. Dubose, this is for you. South Carolina Code, Laws 34-7, Subchapter A-2, Section D and 5, I think, talks about contractual issues. And then I think it's two and four, maybe, or talk about employee issues. One thing is pending litigation involving a potential contractual matter. Threatened litigation.

» One of them is threatened litigation against accounting. Okay. Let me ask you this. What about the employee issue? The other is an employee issue that Mr. Templer is asking. And you cannot reveal any names? No. No. And likewise, we can't reveal the threatened litigation. I just want to make sure, and I know you do, but I want to make sure we're giving all the information we possibly can when we go into these executive sessions. The employee name, we can't name. And we can't say what the threatened potential litigation is. It's threatened. Here's what I'll say. It's pending. Is this pending? That's correct. Okay. And I'm going to support this, but here's what I'm saying. I want to get in there, hear you out, and get out. No action will be taken. Is that not correct, Mr. Templer? Yep.

» So we're looking at about how long? We could be out by now. Two minutes. Huh? At best for me, two minutes. Okay. At best for us, four or five minutes. Okay. Mr. Chair, Mr. Vice Chair, you've got Mr. Morgan. Yes. Oh, five minutes. You're saying five minutes. I thought you were saying eight. I guess. He's long-winded. Mr. Vice Chair, I was going to say, just like I believe in the First Amendment, I believe in the sanctity of attorney-client privilege and getting advice that doesn't prejudice entities overall. This definitely involved attorney-client information. And then one is still in need for investigation, right? Advice. And also support that, but I just need clarification. All right. Yes. All right. All in favor? Raise your hand. It's unanimous, Ms. Mayor. All right. Please.

» There we go. Test, test. Make a motion that we conclude executive session. Second. Motion is made by Mr. Connell to come out of executive session. Second. Second by Mr. Gardner. Any discussion? Hearing none, raise your hand if you want to move on. Raise your hand if you want to come out. And it is 4-2-0 there, Ms. Mary. And time is- Are they coming, Brent? They're using the restroom. There we go. All right. Here we go. He went to the restroom. He told me. Go ahead. Now that that's recorded. All right. Is there any further action as we come out of executive session? Needed. Mr. Administrator? Yes, sir. All right. Hearing none. Is there a motion to adjourn? I'll make a motion. Second. Motion made by Mr. Tom Tomlinson. Seconded by Mr. Gardner. Any discussion? All in favor? Raise your hand. It is unanimous, Ms. Mary. 5-0. Have a good night.