Full meeting transcript - August 13, 2019

» a great day in kershaw county it's a great day in this all-american county and it's also a great day for our ponytails who took this south carolina state national it's not south carolina championship welcome you all we have a quorum everyone is present and with that we are called to order and i ask dave snodgrass to lead us in the invocation and pledge of allegiance would you please stand father we come to you this evening and we're thankful we're thankful for the ability to be here and to be a part of this assembly here. Lord, I'm thankful to be a part of this country in which we enjoy freedoms. Lord, to peacefully assemble and, Lord, to conduct government business in this manner. And, Lord, to come and to voice our opinions, to have the freedom of speech.

» Lord, not everyone is able to enjoy these freedoms. And, Lord, we know that these freedoms come directly from you. And we're also thankful for the individuals who have fought for those freedoms as a part of our military. And, Lord, we pray for them. Lord, we pray for those who wear the uniform here locally, those of a law enforcement officer or a first responder or a detention center officer, Lord, or a fireman, we pray that you would place a hedge protection around them as they serve this great county. Lord, I pray that you would be with us in these moments as we conduct the business of this county. We love you. Praise in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Reverend.

» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Reverend David. keep that up we're going to make you our permanent preacher up here i think i need to come to your church on sunday thank you we're called to order thank you david the time now for public comments i ask mr dubose to take us through this how many do we have signed up tonight mr chairman we have some well we have six people signed up one scratch their name and um so fix it i'll get five minutes each the first one is ben tobin say again the last Mr. Tobin, please come up, and as you do so, I want to remind you all that these are designed to hear from you.

» There's no question and answer back and forth, and I ask you to retain the quorum of this body so that information may be handled by the government bodies before you, and also in around five minutes we'll give you a notice when your time's up. Sir, please go ahead. Okay. Thank you for having me up front. is that microphone working oh yeah bring it over where you can talk to it yeah thank you all right all right uh my announcement goes to those who provided me the information for mailing to those who personally respond to my request and to the editor who decided to print my newsletter matter of consolidating the sheriff's department with the detention center OPENS UP QUESTIONS WE NEED TO ASK AND BEING INFORMED WITH THE QUESTIONS THAT ONE NEEDS TO BE AWARE OF.

» OUR CITIZENS NEED THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THIS MATTER IN WHICH COUNTY COUNCIL MEETING IS NOT FORMATTED FOR DISCUSSION. BRIEFLY SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS. USING THE DETENTION FACILITY FOR TRAINING PURPOSES FOR DEPUTIES THAT ARE VYING FOR POSITION. IN THESE TWO INSTITUTIONS, THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FIELD EXPOSURE. DANGER OF PERSONAL AND ATTITUDE SIGNALARITY THAT WILL TRANSCEND FROM ONE PLACE TO THE Certification process. Are these recruits recruiting from another department? If so, why? Is it open for public review? Background checks. As well as you check the individual backgrounds, region of origin, past and present, is being vetted for contemporary way of thinking towards diversity and social status. That needs to be looked at also. Training staff.

» Singularity pipeline is a danger to diversification towards mental, cultural, and personal attitudes. Once again, regional origin. What is the fail safe policy? Paper versus reality. How deep is the bureaucratic process? Masking the county council to table the request for immersion until there's a town hall meeting consisting of broad panels and setting a format for question and possible answers. Sessions with no individual group-- I'm sorry, with no individual that attempt to have a gripe session or no group that attempt to have a gripe session be done in an orderly fashion. In closing, you cannot know the answer until the questions are understood. Thank you, Mr. Tobin. Pass it to the clerk, and she will give it to us. Thank you, sir. The next person signed up is H.L. Brown. Mr. Brown.

» Good afternoon, everyone. My concerns are dealing with the sheriff taking control over the detention center as well as the sheriff's department. My concerns is those are both important positions, and with him holding two positions like that, will he be able to really focus on each part of his job? So I would just like to just say, as for me being a citizen, that placing that many positions on one person is a little too much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Mr. DuBose. Next person signed up is Wesley Corley. Corrie. Corrie, good afternoon. Good afternoon. And it is not a great day in Kershaw County. Y'all recklessly took money for projects and wasted it on an underwater park. You could have used it for fire protection, but you didn't do it. Also, you wasted money on some kind of pad.

» You wasted money on some kind of barn. And, yes, Mr. Sheriff Lee Bone can't handle two jobs, and I can tell you why. I met the man. I know the man, and he knows me. Furthermore, as far as the detention center, when I was brought up, the sheriff was over at the detention center and the sheriff's department. There ain't but one county over. And as the sheriff, I know this man here can handle probably more than two jobs. But the reason y'all don't want him to have it is because y'all got your hands in it. I called me a liar. That's right. Now, I want to know another thing. I got a 20-year-old truck.

» Why y'all going to charge me $108 to pay taxes with 150 miles on it? that's outrageous lee county same truck 36 dollars and 38 cents you ought to be ashamed of yourselves folks they ain't doing nothing but taking your money and putting it right here i know where you putting it because all these projects you built i'm assuming oh it's your buddies they gave you kickbacks i know how the game's played and you can look at me any way you want to i ain't scared i'm crazy and people know i am but i'm gonna tell you this it's a shame that y'all treat the disabled and the elderly the way you do that's a pitiful shame you're gonna charge man probably he got a half acre of land he probably ain't he's in an accident and y'all gonna charge him taxes raise his taxes y'all are disgrace y'all need to be re

» placed with a reputable people that know what they're doing such as engineers common people that's lived in the world but y'all don't see that all y'all see is dollar signs well dollar signs is going to stop i'm going to tell you that now because we're going to vote you out and if these people agree with me i'm happy if they don't i'm happy but we're going to vote you out i promise you that thank you sir ain't nobody here that man's right there judge uh mr bone i told that man i'd whip him in his sheriff's park and me and him we talked it out that's how two men talk things out that's how people communicate y'all don't communicate with your public y'all leave us in the dark well we ain't in the dark no more we've we can see the light and we can see your pockets filling up too thank y'all y'a

» ll have Have a nice day. Thank you, sir. Mr. DuBose. Next person signed up is Sheriff Lee Bone. Sheriff. Always a pleasure to talk to my favorite county council in all of Kershaw County. Over the past two months, and this is about the jail, the past two months I've personally talked with each one of you. Each one of you had my cell phone, my email address. Each one of you has reached out and done a lot of research. This is a very serious topic. I want to thank every one of you for doing it. That's what I wanted from the beginning is to do some serious research and make the best decision for Kershaw County. I'm the elected chief law enforcement officer in Kershaw County. People put me where I'm at. Running a jail is a law enforcement function.

» I'm also a member of the South Carolina Sheriffs Association. Since 75% of the sheriffs in South Carolina run their jails, South Carolina Sheriffs Association is the largest network of jail administrators in South Carolina. Sumter County Sheriff Anthony Dennis, president of the South Carolina Sheriffs Association, which is the largest association of jail administrators in South Carolina, spoke in favor of the sheriff having the jail in Kershaw County during my presentation last month. Councilman Jimmy Jones, which is the only council member with jail administrator experience, is in favor. I think of him as the subject matter expert when it comes to running jails since he's run Kershaw County Jail. He's in favor of this merger.

» I'm still convinced tonight, as much as I was two months ago, that merging the sheriff's office and the detention center it's what's in the best interest of Kershaw County. I think the timing is perfect now but I'm not going to take up any more time representing the issue tonight. I'm sure you're all prepared and I'm sure you all prepared yourselves to make an informed decision tonight and I'm going to trust your decision. As I said from the beginning this is not a fight between the sheriff and council. All this is is a discussion on what's in the best interest of Kershaw County. Thank you for your time. Thank you sheriff. Thank you very much indeed. Next person has signed up is Fielding Pringle. Ms. Pringle. Chairman Burns. I need to get the microphone over to you again.

» Can you hear me now? Yep. All right. Good evening, Chairman Burns, members of council. My name is Fielding Pringle, and I'm the circuit defender for the Fifth Judicial Circuit, which means I'm your public defender here in Kershaw County. I came and spoke to you guys last month. I don't think everyone was here, but I was able to address council, and I apologize if I'm repeating myself or if you see me glancing down at my phone i'm not checking my text messages i have my timer on so i can monitor my time don't go over but i did want to come here and just share with you again my opposition and request that you retain control of the jail as i said last time i've met the sheriff and there is nothing personal about this request whatsoever it has nothing to do with not wanting sheriff bone to be i

» n charge of the jail in particular it is a much more um a larger concern and a more long-term concern really uh he seems like a lovely person and i and i do believe that he has the best of intentions i just don't happen to think it's a good idea i have been a lawyer since 1996 most of that time i have been a public defender spent a large amount of that time in richland county as a public defender and took over the circuit defender position last year from mr strickler who i believe you some of you may remember um i can just tell you in my time practicing law I have practiced all over the state I know attorneys locally attorneys all over the state who have come to Kershaw County I have been in jails detention centers all over the state I know lawyers who have spent time in jails all over the

» state and have spent time in this jail and while I recognize that there are issues at times jails are going to have issues But this jail is run very, very well, and it has a very good reputation among attorneys, among families of inmates, among defendants, and among the people that have to go in and work in the jail on a regular basis from the legal community. It is known for treating inmates and family members and lawyers and our staff with respect, dignity, humanity, courtesy, responsiveness. I've never reached out to them when I've not gotten a response or an issue addressed that we needed to get addressed. Very few arise, and we've had very few problems, really, whatsoever in my time here. I spent a lot of time at the jail some years ago prepping for a death penalty trial.

» and I just can't tell you but how detailed and careful and cautious they are to tend to attorney client confidentiality to attend to security and safety and it is it is a unique place and it is being run in my opinion and in the opinion of many many others very very well as I said to you last time and I say this with my whole heart the safety and security aspect of the jail I think I have as much vested interest in that as any law enforcement member, any law enforcement community. Because not just my clients are in there, but my lawyers are in there every day. I have four lawyers who are public defenders here who are in that detention center every day. I'm in there. My clients are in there. And so their safety and security is just as much my interest as it is law enforcement.

» Finally, I think you really do need to be concerned about the difference in these two jobs. Being a correctional officer, being a law enforcement deputy, and what they're talking about is a brand-new deputy, so using this as a training facility. These are very different jobs, and a correctional officer has a duty to ensure that the inmates are safely housed and protected and kept secure in the jail from the community, and they have the duty to ensure the protection of their constitutional rights people that work for the sheriff they have some of those obligations but their job is evidence-gathering prosecution arrest for criminality and when you take both of those and you blend them into one job I think you end up with a real divided sense of loyalty and a potential conflict of interest bec

» ause their loyalty would and should be to the sheriff and it's just very different i do see that i'm running out of time and i thank you so much for hearing me out and taking the time to consider this i do think that you're doing an excellent job and would ask that you retain control of the jail thank you very much indeed for making that long journey i appreciate it mr bows mr chairman the last person that signed it up is tom webb the third mr webb what i'm going to say won't have much meaning to most people i'll keep it real short uh country's in terrible tension and I think we need to be careful not to alienate people.

» There was a choice I was called on to make among some of the associates, some of the people that we know for a committee and I didn't feel that I had everything I needed to make a really wise decision so I flipped a coin and I probably hurt some people's feelings but I want to defend that. It's called casting lots that when you are pressed to do something sometimes the way to resolve it is to flip a coin it's very biblical it goes way back to the Urim and Thurman of the old testament when the priest would take these objects and use them to arrive at a conclusion and lives actually depended on it when the 11 disciples that were left after after Jesus was crucified Matthias was picked to fill then for the 12th spot by lots. So flipping a coin is not necessarily very flippant.

» It's a way to achieve a certainty of what you're going to do and also to dispel any of the egos that might get involved when people are going to argue over this or that and who wins the argument. If you just flip a coin, that takes the egos and the pressure out of it. Anyway, I did this and I've probably hurt some feelings so I'm taking this opportunity to explain it thank you very much got any questions ask me thank you mr. Webb and thanks for your service on the clean community committee mr. DuBose that concludes the sign-up list all right with that we move to the adoption of the agenda do you have that up on the board yet yeah please mr. mr.

» Bozard you wanted to say something about the agenda mr chairman yes on the agenda i believe you are having a consideration under number seven new business cancellation of november 22nd november 26th council meetings those are the second meetings of each month uh previously on a preliminary agenda discussion you indicated you wish to add cancellation to september 24th meeting at that time i indicated I had a time-sensitive matter, but that time-sensitive matter no longer exists. Now, Mr. Chairman, by way of explanation, in the event Council should wish to cancel the second meeting in September, the question is how is that exigent in August? Well, it becomes exigent in August if Council wishes to do it because you need certainty in scheduling, particularly for public hearings.

» Public hearings, as you know, are scheduled in advance, advertised in advance. Chronicle Independent has deadlines for advertising. I can see the clerk indicating. So if council has any inclination to also cancel the second meeting in September, it would be my request that they do so now so that we will have certainty in advertising for public hearings on my behalf and on behalf of the clerks. All right. In other words, the Bethune item at tab B is not time sensitive. It is not, and so I'll exercise my prerogative and say I want to put it back what it was in the original draft of the agenda on item number seven on the new business for discussion later on.

» We can decide later, but we need to put it back on the agenda that it should read instead of cancellation of October 22nd, it would read, in addition, cancellation of 24 September comma October 22nd. we have a second to that second a second from mr bozard uh discussion yes uh yeah mr jones uh thank you mr chairman members of county council i guess i have a question i mean i just i'm seeing this for the first time we've counseled two meetings that i did not support july and august and now we're going to cancel the meeting in october november and september well potentially you'd have to vote on it and the motion would have to pass but that's what the motion yes that's the I can't support that. You know, folks, we ran to serve. We meet twice a month, and I think that's what we ought to do.

» And I do appreciate, Mr. Vose, you bringing up time-sensitive issues. Take, for example, what we're discussing tonight, employees' benefits, the jail. Those are very important issues, but we've had to postpone those and kind of wait until we had another meeting. So I certainly will not support that, and I would be surprised if the majority of my colleagues did. Okay, thank you. Other discussion on the amendment to the agenda? Yeah, okay. Mr. Chairman, I think the record would reflect that the county attorney and the clerk to council have indicated that if the council is going to do it, they need to do it now because that is exigent. We need to know. We got that. Thank you. We'll get to it later on.

» Can you restate the motion? Our motion is amend item number seven on new business to read from cancellation of October 22nd be amended to add 24 September as well so September October November there'll be one meeting a month once we get to that item number seven if we decide to vote in that direction okay so that's the amendment and we'll vote on it up or down we get to it all right we've got a motion on the floor don't we sir okay and has it been seconded yes yes so we need to take a vote that's correct but have a discussion mr jones any other discussion seeing there is none let's move to a vote uh to amend the agenda as stated all those in favor signify by raising your hand uh mr tucker mr gardner mr burns mr bozard and mr connell those opposed to the amendment uh mr snodgrass and mr jone

» s the motion carries and the motion and the agenda is amended mr bozard do you have an an amendment yes please under old business the extension of the water lines at dolby mills and up highway 5 i need to take that off because the information that i was looking for not come back to me okay time discuss it can we have a second second that uh mr connell let's second any discussion all right we'll pick that up at a future date all those in favor signify by raising your hand and it's unanimous mary and so amended we move now to the next item which is approval of minutes it should be up in your board and it should be mr chairman yeah i'd like to make a motion that we adopt the amended oh absolutely thank you mr tucker now we have the amendment made now can we have a motion to approve the agenda

» as amended on item number seven mr tucker i'll make that motion a second second second for mr gardner any discussion uh seeing there is none let's move to a vote all those in favor signify by raising your hand and it's mr. Snodgrass mr. Tucker mr. Gardner mr. Connell mr. Bozard burns and Gardner all those opposed mr. Jones it passes six to one we move now to approval of minutes at tab a can we have a motion to approve the minutes mr.

» Gardner thank you a second second from mr bozard uh any discussion mr yeah point of order i'm going to abstain from voting due to my absence of travel correct you know all right so we had two absent uh any further discussion let's move to a vote all those in favor of the minutes please signify by raising your hand and it's unanimous with mr snigrass and tucker abstaining okay we move move now to the first item on the agenda thereafter which is an ordinance first reading of an ordinance authorizing the conveyance of bethune rural water company at tab b okay mr mr um carpenter can you introduce it and perhaps we'll get into an explanation later uh once we get it on the floor mr carpenter mr chairman members council this is an ordinance that allows the transfer of property owned by kershaw cou

» nty to the bethune rural water company very good uh can we have a motion to approve this um ordinance make the motion we approve this ordinance mr chairman thank you mr tucker a second second second for mr gardner uh ken can you take us through a little bit please mr chairman yes in 1980 kershaw county apparently facilitated a grant from the farmers home administration to allow the construction of a water tank and water lines to be used by the bethune real water company which bethune world water company has used since that date has maintained since that date and this merely authorizes kershaw county to convey it back to them 39 years later because we don't kershaw county i don't think um house has to make this determination but kershaw county doesn't operate it doesn't maintain it has nothi

» ng to do with it except they own it it's leased to bethune world water company now so we want to convey it to them so they can own it thank you uh discussion pretty straightforward to me and there's been no discussion we'll move quickly to a vote all those in favor signify by raising your hand and it's unanimous mary and moves on to a second reading later in september we'll move down to old business uh the first item on there after the deletion of the waterline issue is item number two restoration of retirement benefits there's some data on tab c and also on the board and some of that may be new to you and may require some explanation um do we have a motion on this mr jones i believe this is your item mr chairman i'm also moved but i want to state my motion this way I move the Kershaw Count

» y retirement benefit plan be amended so as to return all employees that were on the payroll January 10 2011 to the retirement plan that was in effect at that time thus grandfathering those employees to be covered by the old 50/50 plan should they successfully retire from Kershaw County this change will not affect any employees hired after January 10 2011 They are covered by the current $300-slash-month plan already in effect. They were hired at that position and with that understanding. This will not cover these qualified employees once they reach age 65. At that point, those retirees would be covered by Medicare and the $300-month plan that is currently in effect. Thank you. Do you have a hard copy for the rest of us? maybe we could ask the clerk so we could see it.

» I don't think, no, I don't have another copy for you all. We could get it at zero. Absolutely, you can get it. All right, let's get a second and maybe have that done. Can we have a second, please? I'm going to second for discussion. Okay, a second for discussion. Mary, can you, Danny, can you perhaps make a copy of that? With that, Mr. Jones, you led off. Would you like to discuss it a little bit? Sure, I would. All right, y'all need to listen, please. Okay. The cost for the yearly, I think the yearly cost for the year's cost for the current retirees that are on board now, I think we have, what is it, 26? It's $23,400. No, I know it's $23,000, but current, is it $18,000, $20,000, how many? $17,000. $17,000, currently retired now, that would be $23,000 more.

» The cost to cover the length of the restored benefits that I mentioned would be for the employees that are still working, but they were hired prior to January 10, 2011, would be $330,000. But that is a very hard number. Bottom line is that probably wouldn't be the amount. It would probably be a lot less because that's assuming that the current covered employees to retire and live a healthy life.

» and that's just not realistic you know some may not retire some may not make it to retirement some may retire and only be around for a year some may live a full healthy life to 100 we just don't know but this is taking a worst case scenario based on information that i got from administration and of course you know always as we've done in the past if in the future the kershaw county finds they cannot afford this change they can always go back as they've done in the past and amend the budget again but i i want to say this kershaw county can't afford this we can't afford it mr carbon i'm going to ask you your opinion can we afford this um i can find the money within the budget if council requests yes sir yes sir so we can't afford this and uh and i think it's it's little money out of a budget

» of 28 million and uh this little bit of money will go a long ways to do the right thing and I just appreciate that I have some other I'm sure there's gonna be some questions directed at me if I can't answer if I don't have the right answer I get mr. carpenter mr. Bozis pitch in but I look forward to the dialogue we have a chart on the board and out of fairness to all councilmen may not have a chance to see it can I ask mr.

» carpenter to talk about what that chart says yes sir the chart that's currently in front refers to the individuals that are currently retired from Kershaw County that were affected by the change in retirement programs in January of 2011 17 individuals that is the increase in the OPEB OPEB is the other host employment benefits that's an accounting term it's used to reflect the the implied and incurred cost of to the citizens of Kershaw County for in this particular case changing the plan so the book value we're required to to put it in our financial statements would increase by approximately 1.5 million dollars to the long-term liabilities the county has to book as as a debt to the county total debt goes up 1.5 million dollars well it not not dead in the sense of long-term ability things lik

» e that it's not that kind of debt but it's it's it's our book liability our assets and our liabilities just further Jimmy's presentation is there another chart or two that talks to this or is this the one you wanted to show um there's yes there are other ones out there as well that show when Mr. Jones referred to the to the cost of grandfathering employees this refers to that cost right there the grandfathered employees a total of 82 employees currently working for this county were also working when the plan change was made of those 82 53 of them have single coverage 23 have coverage with their spouse six of them are not covered by the county. So a total of 76 employees, as Mr. Jones indicated.

» I can't tell you what the cost would be tomorrow or a year from now or two years from now for those employees, but the cost to the county if they all retired would be an additional $336,000 a year. Yes, sir, you got that from me. Everybody tracking so far? All right, and there's another chart too, I thought. Okay, we'll try to read that. That's just the current – those are the 17 individuals that are currently retired under – that were affected by the change in plans in January of 2011. So since January of 2011, we've had 17 employees retire that are covered by some form of retiree coverage. And the cost for those 17 would be an additional $23,000 a year to move them back to the old plan. That pretty well states the case, Jimmy. It does.

» So the 82 plus the 2017 adds up to about a third of a million dollars in costs and a 1.5 million dollar, I guess you'd call that liability against the audit of Gatsby. Is that how that's read? Long term. Yes, it's liability. And if counsel wishes to delve into the accounting aspect, we have Mark Quigley here who can answer those questions. I'm not an accountant, so So I don't want to mislead counsel by representing myself as one standard disclaimer there. But the $1.5 million was based on the $17 million. That is not the cost of the $76 million as well. That would be an additional cost on top of that. But, again, it's not – Mark can explain better how that affects us. But we have to book it in our books every year.

» Bond rating agencies generally look at that when they look at our books to understand what our long-term liabilities are. With that entree, is it okay if we bring Mr. Quigley forward? He's our wonderful CPA. You're going to – this is before income tax. I normally don't like to see the CPA until then. Thanks for coming, Mark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of council. Your increased costs on your OPEB liability, if you all remember, that's on your 34 statements. and so it lists all your liabilities of the county. Right now, your OPEB liability is about $6.3 million. You factor in these additional 76 people, it goes to about $9 million. So you're looking at about, right now, that 1.5 only represents the 17 people that retired between January 11 and June 30 of 2019.

» But you can't just carve those people out. The change is to include an additional 83 people. So when you factor that in, your liability increases not from 1.5, but to 2.7 million. So that 2.7 million would be an additional liability that would be recorded on to the county's books, meaning that's an additional liability that if everybody in the county retired today, your liability would be about $9 million of insurance policies that you'd have to pay out. And that factors in business as what we know is risk. Does that impact our bond ratings and things of that nature? It hasn't yet, but you never know when it could. You know, that's along with, you know, you've also got the retirement pension liabilities on your books now too. That continues to go up as well.

» And so at some point in time, these bond rating agencies, and everybody's got them, so you're not in the boat alone, But that was one of the reasons why the ordinance was passed and the way it was done was to try to help control some of the costs for this OPEB because we knew this was coming. I had talked to council about, hey, guys, you need to make sure that y'all understand this OPEB liability is coming. That was why the decision was made back then was to try to control some of that cost so the liability wasn't such an enormous amount. And so I just want to make sure everybody understands that's the route that council wants to go.

» There's some things that you've got to consider with not only additional premium costs that you're going to be paying out each year, which would be cash flow, but you've got an increased liability that's going to be on your books, which could, may or may not, impact your bond rating. Just one more point, and I think this teases out the issues for Mr. Jones. Mr. Connell and I and Mr. Snodgrass and Mr. Tucker attended a conference last week and they had the likes of Mr.

» Merle Smith and a few other of our legislators at the State House and you remember two or three years ago when the pension funds and all that began to fail, they decided that each year they would increase the amount that the counties paid and so is this up and and it will happen again next year so the compensation pension and all that sort of thing is increasingly being laid on the shoulders of the counties is that in the same genre of what you're talking about more okay thank you mr.

» Snodgrass it's quickly can I ask you a question where were you where you are accountant when this was these changes were made I was the auditor when the changes were made the order would change because i thought i heard you say something in your statement that you said because of the opeb that's why you um you advise them of this how this is one this is one change and that's why yeah i advise you advise when when the change i knew when the change was coming and this has been phased in a couple of different things so when it first came in you basically took your opeb liability and it was divvied out over 30 years. So you only recognize about one-thirtieth of it. Two years ago, they just said, no, you're going to book the whole liability.

» And so when this was getting ready to hit back in the 11 year, which would have been 11-12 audit, we had told council the year before, you don't need to look at this because this is coming. We had advised all of our clients that, you know, you need to look at your retirement benefits for health insurance because this liability is coming and you need to plan accordingly.

» We didn't certainly say you had to change the plan yeah i'm not trying to hey guys make sure you look at this because we had some counties they were paying a hundred percent you want to talk about an astronomical liability they were getting ready to book it was incredible and so yeah we had advised we had informed council at that point in time hey these changes are coming you might you need to look at your plan council did at that point in time they decided to change to what the plan is currently that the people that had retired january of 11 would be grandfathered in anybody retired after that it would be three hundred dollars a month um there was no would you repeat that one time please repeat what you just said those that had retired before january of 2011 were grandfathered into the pla

» n not current employees those current employees retired so anybody that had not retired by that date they came under their plan they fell under the new plan at 300 a month well that's exactly what i said okay thank you go ahead and go ahead but we're talking about grandfathering people who were we're y'all are now talking about grandfather people in that were employed at that date not that retired that day all right we've got two yes two separate issues yeah uh thank you jimmy is it this i think this is really helpful uh al please yeah okay not 11 but right now today people retiring right now today you have any figures for that i'm not worried about retroactive i'm talking about from this point forward under what under what plan the no plan or the new plan a new plan that the plan that exis

» ts as of right now yes if you retire right now under the plan that's there you get paid you get 300 right a month and so your opeb liability under that scenario is about 6.3 million dollars other discussion with uh i probably have some discussion but we won't need to have mark up here uh let's go ahead mr tucker if you don't understand because um what you're saying now is different from what i understood then i want to make a couple points and it came from the previous administrator we councilman gardner looked at me just now like deer in headlights or under the unders understanding that it was everybody who was employed that's talking to mike that's going to retire out of the system not who retired by 2011.

» so that's why this came back up because we've got these 17 employees um that are having some difficulties uh maintaining their health insurance through the county and has given their their adult life to the county um in serving um so i think there was either some bad misunderstanding i'm not blaming you at all let me say that first and foremost no i understand um but but i also know um what was said uh not with you but privately in other conversations not to throw anybody underneath the bus um there's a couple things that i um i wanted to just go over first mr carpenter the 336 thousand dollars what you gonna cut out the budget because when we did the budget i didn't remember that being fluffed who's gonna get hurt well and again i'm not saying that that's would be a cost that we would actu

» ally incur unless every single employee was able to retire all at once that's the the potential cost that they all did retire at once obviously mr. Tucker I'd make it work but it wouldn't be pretty so that's that's number one of my concerns the the others is this Gatsby 45 we're talking about to what you just said about our bond rating and our ability to borrow money just went to that class as a chairman spoke about this week this past week at the conference and yes your lenders are looking at what your liabilities and what your Gatsby 45 75 is and they're rating you and loaning you accordingly i mean i sat in that class with the chairman and i think ben was in there and um and vic and um so um it does and that's where i'm having a little heartburn on trying to do all of it mr jones versus

» trying to do the 23 000 where the 17 employees are already retired and then let's address the other 76 72 70 72 76 whatever the number is in our next budget cycle so we can address the liability part now i know we say that it's 1.5 but that's not 1.5 cash that's a liability and a paper number but you know worst case scenario if something happens and everybody decides to leave it could be a possible liability um so with that being said what i would like to offer mr chairman is an amendment to the motion let me uh ask you a question so you would do it for some but not for all i would do it for the ones who are currently retired so you can't pick winners and losers that's what you're trying to do i'm doing it for the ones who are currently addressing that issue i'm separating out what is prese

» nt what is future yeah i think i would i would just caution you one one thing i'm i'm not a legal expert by any means you need to make sure that you're able to do that because that could be construed as a discriminatory plan that's my point and i'm not sure that you're able to do that yeah i think you're getting to my point you've got 17 and you've got 82 or i think that's the numbers but you've got a a large number of people they're not being treated equitably and you're setting yourself up for either a complaint now or a future budget you might as well vote for it now or decide to take it up and what i was talking to jimmy about earlier coffee is is we are now out of the recession you know and and maybe there is an opportunity for us at a later time but that's not the motion in front of u

» s as an opportunity during the much next budget cycle to do the whole thing but that's not the motion before us but do you want to make the motion yes yes sir I do but let me let me address what you just said we we just picked who was retired in 2011 and who wasn't um to to cover our liabilities so so if you so you did you not discriminate against the ones that were not eligible for retirement or not ready to retire at that time i'm i'm only following what we just did eight nine years ago yeah but at that point in time it was everybody that retired and so you had made the motion or you had made the change so everybody else i'm i'm not saying you can't do it i'm just saying you need to look at it because let's say for instance this let's say that somebody was gonna retire they were before re

» tirement age so they knew once the new law had passed they were gonna have only $300 let's say they were under family and they would have to pay out an additional $700 for retirement and they decided not to do it or they're in the same position now so if you only carve it out for 17 people you could have the possibility of saying somebody come back and say wait a second now I could have retired and I chose not to because I knew what the cost was going to be of my increased insurance could have a situation where they would follow some file some kind of complaint I'm just saying just make sure that that's taken under advisement um because I'd hate for that the situation to come up and I and I appreciate your your concern on that and I don't have a problem having the administrator to do some l

» egal research with our county attorney, but there, too, I just go back to they're not retired, and I didn't say we're not going to address it. I'm just blocking off how we're doing it. You're taking steps. And I think that it's the most prudent thing to do so we can cover that liability piece by piece without upsetting the whole apple cart of the budget, and that's my reason behind and not to discriminate against anybody or leave anybody out. And I most definitely don't pick winners and losers because I think the person that does that is the loser. I truly believe that. Let me say this, too, because I'm real busy when I go to these conferences. Florence County, right down the road, pays 90%.

» All I'm trying to do and other council members up here is to go back to a 50-50, which is equitable to help these. And this is not any dependents. This is our employees who we don't always pay the best wages to try to help them where they can live a decent life and take care of their medical needs. So that's what my passion is, and I just want to state my amendment, Mr. Chairman, if I could, that we make a motion that we approve the $23,416.80 of costs for the 17 employees that's currently retired as of 2011. Mr. Tucker, excuse me for interjecting, but don't you want to include those that have retired subsequent to January 10th, 2011, and prior to some date? We have more retirees than that number. Any retiree prior to January 10th was already covered by the plan we're discussing. Right.

» So they're not affected. So he wants to add a new date? What's the new date? What he's asking is those employees who retired between the dates of January 10th, 2011, and June 30th, 2019. right that's what i was looking for june 30th 2019 okay you want the closing date yes yes sir that's correct thank you mr carpenter june 30th what 2019 and that is how many people 17 those individuals that we so it would be that so your increased liability would be the 1.5 million that's the cost there is the liability not the cost is one point do we not want to get a second on the motion and we'll continue and then can we have a second on that i do okay mr jones seconds it further discussion yes yeah jimmy just give me a chance to bring a solution in because i i'm really good about bringing solutions to th

» e table um we talk about our liability and uh the nine million dollars you know you guys had no problem in doing a 17.2 million dollar bond for economic development that's going to be a 30 million dollar payback in 30 years which has accomplished nothing in economic development nothing and you know we talked about twenty three thousand dollars where we're gonna find it well you know we were talking about painting water tanks at the last meeting that was gonna run maybe close to seventy or eighty thousand dollars but everybody was excited about that not true said mr carnell i do stand corrected on that um but anyway i'm just mr tucker i appreciate your hard work i appreciate the amendment i'm going to support the amendment listen we promised you can ask any employee that's here they were tol

» d that they would be grandfathered in and they found out they weren't and uh i just think that and i was told that by the current administration i'm gonna get to you in a minute so um i know i know it's gonna come up where you dropped the ball jimmy jones because you didn't get in writing no we're gonna drop the ball if we don't do something tonight that we know about uh thanks for coming excuse me mr chairman thank you mike you're on the same same line so go ahead well i just want you know just for transparency make it clear crystal clear um there's not a one of us up here this affects not a one of us one council member sitting up here that this affects so i'm not doing this for me and i have zero relatives work for the county i'm not doing this for my family i'm doing this because it's th

» e right thing to do and we can do it and we had already thought we had done it so SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE GOOD ON WHAT I THOUGHT WAS ALREADY IN PLACE. MR. CONNELL. SO FOR ME, THIS COMES DOWN TO A MATTER OF STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION. I CAN'T SUPPORT MR. JONES' MOTION OR THE AMENDMENT FOR MULTIPLE REASONS, BUT I'LL NAME THE ONES THAT STICK OUT TO ME THE MOST.

» SO IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE ACTUAL LAW, WHICH IS REALLY ALL I CAN WORK OFF OF INSTEAD OF SOMEONE TOLD ME OR THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME, I'VE TORTURED THE STATUTORY LANGUAGE and the code and the benefits manual with our county attorney trying to interpret it any other way that I could that would line up with what's been suggested tonight but I can't do it and that's the law we have had instances up around the council in my short time up here where there's been proposed language in what the law would be and the discussion that we've had over 15 20 minutes 30 minutes or an hour did not line up our understanding did not line up with what was in the printed word on the page which is what matters when this body acts as a majority and votes on it to codify something or make it the law of

» this county and we've corrected that there's a time I remember with the shipping container ordinance we were talking about various issues we had a understanding but the language did not reflect it and we had to call it out and change the language on the page unfortunately back in 2010 it looks like the language did not reflect exactly what the intent was and you know that is unfortunate I think we are in a better position in the county right now to be able to better compensate on the retirement side for elective health care benefits are employees that can help attract people it can help attract probably a little bit older talent people who are more seasoned are interested in some of those benefits a little bit more than new hires with that said and i'd like to see us do it increase those be

» nefits for people who are currently retired i can't go back nine years almost a decade and try to retroactively correct language that this doesn't line up with anything that I've heard tonight, and I've tried to read it every way I could to interpret it that way, and in good faith, I just can't. Thank you. Mr. Snodgrass. I yield. Yeah, Tom? I support the amendment because I believe we need to make these 17 people whole to what they thought they were getting. But at the same time, whether it's voted up or down, we need to address it during the budget.

» in the spring when we go into the next budget session and we need to address it for all of our employees this fixes these 17 in this amendment but i think that we need to address and whatever it makes it may stay at 300 and we may go to 500 we may do whatever but come budget discussions in the spring this needs to be addressed because we need to take care of our employees this was done at a time when uh the recession was here it was a financial decision as much as anything else uh climate economic climate is better now and i think we're in better shape to do something so uh come budget time this spring i i i want to make sure that we do address this i agree uh mr steingrass yeah i just want to add echo some comments that have already been said but this man this this really this is a tough i

» ssue and it's it tears me up because when i look at at the spreadsheets there are faces behind those numbers and and and I hate I hate the situation that we have placed ourselves in however I mean as much as I want to to do it's it's it's a scary practice of kind of making this type of type of correction and and for me I wasn't here and so for me this date of 2000 of you know january 10 of 2011 to me that's an arbitrary date why um and i feel for you know the the employees who are who are working here and working here now so um and the other thing that i caught is i mean i've poured through this i've poured this agenda of hours trying to find any any way not only was this read three times uh three readings this has been revised it's in agenda packet this has been revised in 2011 and also 20

» 12 now it wasn't revised for the issue of retirement but it was revised the whole document was revised for a bereavement policy and I think something else so it's this document has crossed this desk many times and and I think those would have been the moments to to to catch this and I I really I hate that I'm saying that because there I have nothing but respect on all of these gentlemen up here, and they, all of us, want to do what's best for Kershaw County, and especially for the employees of Kershaw County, and I think we've just heard, and I know this isn't court of law testimony, but we've heard from our accountant who was here that what is written, what was written, was what was understood, and, you know, so I won't be able to support this as much as I want to.

» the print my the principle of the matter just won't allow me now when it comes time for budget man let's let's look at this i think we're in a great i think we're in a great spot to look at this and and make some some drastic changes and and and that's the appropriate time to do it and and i'm i'm all in at that point but i'm just a little fearful um of you know i'm a little fearful of of what the precedent that this might set if if we would if we would go this this route thank you Mr. Bozar, people that work for Kershaw County is paramount for me. I agree that they need to be taken care of, which I'm going to try to do in every best I can. I also agree with Mr. Gardner. This needs to be tabled for the night and come back up in budget session.

» I don't know, point of order, we didn't use the word tabled. No, you didn't say that. We got an amendment. I'm saying that in my motion. Okay, all right, thank you. I'm not making that motion. but the people like I said a paramount that works for this county and I want to do everything I can for them but I need some time to think about it and I think we can put this thing off coming up in budget year we'll be better off for everybody else including employees and that's who I'm after thank you yeah mr. Tucker if you can wrap it up we'll move to a vote yes sir and I'm ready for a vote I just want to make it clear mr.

» Bozar the only way you gonna get this table if you're going to amend the amendment and um we've we've done the amendment and the second and the discussion so it's either going to get voted up or voted down in just a few minutes so it's not time to have more time because that's going to run out and i just want to say to my colleagues um i'm a bit set back with a couple of you um because i know the fields that you're in you act like you never had to rectify something before um no you weren't here when it happened But does that stop you from doing what's right? We all make mistakes, overlook things, things pass across this desk. We're not the perfect soldiers up here that we want to think we are sometimes. Things happen.

» But is that a reason not to? I mean, if they didn't correct some of the things that went on in the judicial system, everybody would be sitting on death row or being hung or being slaughtered or whatever you want to call it, because when they found out that they were innocent, They refuse to go back and do what's right. So I respect your position. I don't know too much if I agree with your reason. Okay. Mr. Jones, can you wrap it up as having made the motion? I will. Mr. Tucker, I agree with everything you said. I did not make a mistake. I know what I was told. I know what was put before me. And the employees were told this.

» You can go talk to a former clerk of court and some other folks, they'll tell you that they told their employees that they better be glad they were hired prior to because they're going to be grandfathered in so somewhere things slipped by you know and during a budget process that has happened but i can assure you this there's no misunderstanding on my part as to what i thought was supposed to be and mr bozer i would like to say this you do want to do the right thing for the employees we need your vote tonight and uh i'm going to support you mr tucker and i hope we get four votes to do that because you're doing the right thing and I agree with you on that thank you I'm ready to call the question on I want to first thank mr.

» Quigley I'd much rather hear and that was I introduced him incorrectly mark would take mark I'm sorry mr. one under yeah thank you squiggly now it's quickly now forever Thank You mark would thank you very much thank you let me just ask you one question do you like your job okay thank you very much I didn't love it I wouldn't be here and you can see that these seven men up here love this County I mean y'all got a hard decision to me and you know I feel bad that it was construed to members of council in a way that maybe it wasn't written up I feel bad for that and I know y'all y'all make right decision and uh it's not an easy decision yeah um but i just want to make way you know they asked me to come here so everybody knew yes what the potential issues were for your financial statement so wit

» h that i appreciate your time thank you sir thank you mr quigley and i do have a short statement is uh a retroactive action like this is is very dangerous and we've heard uh the financial liability piece that starts us down a road one step taken means we got to take the next step in the next and rather it be taken deliberately as a part of the budget process and that's my where I'm headed so with that yeah if I may since you made that statement would you allow mr. Bozar to make his statement did you have another one he did but you didn't he wasn't recognized I'm sorry thank you very much thank you I just wanted to say I do agree with mr.

» tucker down there and i do support that motion thank you all right with that we have a motion to amend it would you please state it again mr tucker yes sir the motion is um that we approve the two uh twenty three thousand four hundred sixteen dollars and eighty cents uh for the 50 50 plan starting from january 2011 to june 30th 2019 for the 17 retired employees retired during I said retire during that time let me ask you this once we do the 17 should we not also do the 82 we will get there we will get there so we're gonna do we're gonna assume that additional liability when we go through so essentially we're down the path or increasing our liability by several million dollars is that what you're voting on I just gotta make sure it's not several 1.5 on this one but in effect we move into a l

» iability where 17 people have it and then the other 82 is that correct mr carpenter so if if mr tucker's intent is that in january you're going to bring us a budget is that what you want to have mr mr carpenter to do bring in a budget that assumes this additional liability I want him to bring it to the workshop so we can figure out which way we need to go to best limit as much as our liability is possible to include these over 75 people that we have that are in our system yes sir that is that is covered 82 well it's 76 that right now would be covered from the current coverage they have okay and so that's what we're gonna do is ask him to increase that or should he come back in with a judgment that says we can't afford that 17 mr chairman his motion states what he wants with all due respect

» i'm sorry i'm leading this discussion i understand but we're going to have a discussion to the liability that we just heard well we're going to all have discussion thank you mr jones you're quite welcome sir but i'm asking the question to someone else mr quigley now mr wood said that we would assume a greater liability and we're backdooring by a series of steps without having looked at the entire thing. I'm looking at you and I'm telling you this is a risky approach. And I don't know how many times... You're going to do one and you're going to do them all. I don't know how many times I'm going to tell you this is the path and the step that I want to go tonight. And I will rest assured between our administrator and this council, We will look and choose the best paths moving forward.

» I have confidence in this staff and confidence in this council that we will do that, and we will vet it and do our due diligence. Tell me about this. You heard it, I heard it, that the legislators are going to impose at least another $380,000 or more on this PIVA approach to get the state retirement funds sorted out.

» And on top of that, we have now taken a step where these wonderful 17 people, and I know some of them too, and I've talked to them, and I don't know them all, but I know some of them, and the point is, let me ask the question, what we're doing is we're taking a step that I would suggest to you is irrevocable, you've gone down the path, or you must have the administrator come in and say, we couldn't afford that 17, because we can't afford every member of this, of our workforce. I don't know what he's going to come in with, Mr. Chairman, first of all. Yes, for sure. But I'm willing to listen at what he recommends. And don't confuse the monies. The people of money is real money as far as what we have to do according to the General Assembly. This is book money, paper money. It's liability.

» It's not physical money that we raise taxes or move from our account. I don't want the people to get confused because you're up here trying to muddy the water. Thank you. Because it's two separate things. Heck, we can't even control the local government fund. we don't know what that is going to be year to year and they keep saying they're going to do x y and z well do you deny control over them mr tucker do you deny the point that if you've done it for 17 you got to do it for the others i am very interested in gonna do my best i will not make a promise tonight what will happen because i don't have that crystal ball sitting up here but i'm gonna do everything i can to do diligence then let me ask mr jones why did you bring in the entire package tonight instead of the the uh 17 only because i

» wanted the entire package to pass and i would have supported the entire package i would support it right now and i support mr tucker right now i'm not going to get weak need and change my vote i stand firm in the way i feel i see thank you does anybody need any further discussion of the liability mr connell has his hand up um it's interesting when folks invoke do the right thing we have we've all researched the issue and we have our own opinion about what's right or wrong. In my view, the right thing is not to expose the overall taxpayers and voters in Kershaw County to additional liability.

» It's not just about the funds necessarily, not just about the money, but it's a policy matter in that if we do this, if the majority of the council does this, we'll be creating a precedent that says effectively, well, in spite of what the law is, in spite of what the words on the page are, 10 years ago I heard something different. So from 10 years ago to now, how many different ordinances have been passed? How many different budgets have been approved? How many other non-related to retirement benefit issues have come up where somebody can now say, well, you remember what you did last year with or recently with retirement benefits? In spite of the actual law, what we understood is what controlled. And unfortunately, some people perhaps misunderstood.

» I mean, it's just a dangerous precedent that i don't think we should have to deal with on this council or future councils or the taxpayers should have to look at that slippery slope but i do agree that we can do i mean i'm ready to take care of these folks the 17 all of them and those who would retire in the future next budget cycle and increase it substantially but i don't think we should uh hang on our hat what what was understood over 10 years ago and has come across this desk multiple times because it just sets a dangerous precedent on weakening the rule of law in Kershaw County. Yeah, Mr. Bozard. I'd like to, Mr. Carpenter, would you mind telling us what you think about this whole thing? You're the administrator. I know you weren't here when this started.

» Ask him what they did with their employees, where he came from. Excuse me, Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones, thank you. You're welcome. As I've already said, Mr. Bozard, to Council, that if Council chooses to go with the amended version, we can find $23,000 in the current budget. That's something which we can do. I would say a little clarification, Mr. Tucker, that is real money. That's not the OPEB. So that is money that would come from some line item.

» it's a difficult situation in the sense that the decision was made by county council and that decision has stood for nine years to go back and reopen a decision from nine years ago raises the potential of other issues being reopened and discussed that is the pandora's box there are a number of decisions that have been made over the years by numerous councils going back 40 years, and precedent has always been, to my knowledge, that previous council decisions were adhered to. The current council can make decisions going, would make decisions going forward and change policies. So to answer your question, I'm not going to tell you my opinion of it, Mr. Bozard. I will always stand up for the employees of this county.

» I think a retirement plan, pay plans that are good is something that helps us as a community. And I want my employees and the employees of Kershaw County to receive retirement plans, pension plans, and payroll that is fair and is competitive for them. So I support employees being taken care of, but I would say that I think that in looking at how you take care of your employees, I just caution you in the middle of the year, changing longstanding policies that previous councils have made. Thank you. All right, other comments? Chairman, on behalf of what he told and so forth and this other information that's come forward, Mr. Tucker, I can't support you. Jesus Christ. Okay, we move now to votes. Mr. Tucker, all those in favor of the amendment Mr.

» Tucker made, please signify by raising your hand. That's Mr. Tucker, Mr. Gardner, and Mr. Jones. All those opposed, so signify. Mr. Connell, Mr. Burns, Mr. Bozard, and Mr. Snodgrass, the motion fails. We move now to the main amendment, which is stated in hard copy, which goes to the retirement plan that was in effect at the time. Employees to be covered by the 50-50 plan, which would include hired after January 2011, and then it goes on to the age 65. Jimmy, do you want to restate it? I don't think I need to restate my motion. It's on the table. Let's vote. Very good. All those in favor of Mr. Jones' motion, signify by raising your hand. Mr. Jones and the motion. All those opposed, signify by raising your hand. Opposed, signify by raising your hand. I don't know what I'm going to do.

» Point of order. Please restate. Okay. Say again. What was the motion? Well, your amendment failed, so now we're going to ask for Mr. Jones' motion. All right. Got you. Okay. So back to that. uh that mr jones has already voted against it and in favor of all those opposed in favor of in favor of excuse it uh all those opposed to mr jones motion signify by raising your hand and it's mr connell mr bozard mr burns mr gardner mr tucker and mr snodgrass and the motion fails so we move on now the next item on the agenda if i can catch up and thank you uh mr quigley wood thank you very much um the second item is new business is item number one transfer of the detention center to the sheriff's office it's at tab d is that up on the screen yeah very good mr jones this is yours to enter please thank yo

» u uh mr chairman members of county council i would like to make the motion to get this on the floor for discussion and vote that we transfer the which will have to be done i think ordinance and three readings yes but that i made the motion we do that to get things rolling to transfer the responsibility of the detention center to the sheriff uh can we have a second second for the second second came from you david i'm sorry yep from mr snodgrass mr jones you want to open it up i do thank you mr chairman members of county council um it has the sheriff set up here that he's not in a fight with county council he's made a request he feels that he is the best qualified most qualified to run the detention centers as most sheriffs do within uh south carolina i believe i believe it's about 75 percent

» now he also mentioned that sheriff dennis anthony of sumter county who they have their jail and he's president of the sheriff's association came and spoke on that behalf as well and um you know we've had two months since we've looked at this issue i know there's been a couple of meetings council but we've had two months and i would like i've heard a couple of you reached out to him but i i don't think all of you have and that's a little bit disappointing on that but um he's not asking for any additional funds to run the jail he's saying I want to come in here I want to make it better and run it with the existing monies that are on hand you know if this thing doesn't work out there comes time we want him to run the jail he may want more money to do it but that's certainly not the case at thi

» s time right now our current jail is under the the fire service and you know when When you look at the benefits of recruitment and retention, I know that was brought up tonight by a couple of folks, for non-certified patrol deputies to be hired from the jail that gives them that experience. I've done both. I've been on the receiving end, and I've been on the offensive end. I've worked as a law enforcement officer, I've worked as a detention center administrator.

» are different but it's law enforcement and as i said earlier that's what can uh sheriffs do you know you talk about consolidation resources and i'm just rehashing some of the things that the sheriff has already said within his presentation a while back you know with the command staff transportation court and government uh government center security and training those things would be a tremendous benefit um i think it's a win-win for kershaw county i support this and I know that it had came up this will say I've been on county council 13 years it came up one time in my second term I also supported it that time too but it was voted down but I would like to really encourage my colleagues to think about this and um let's move this forward tonight because it's going to take as I said three readi

» ngs to do it but um thank you for your time Mr. Chairman thank you Mr. Jones um Snodgrass yeah this was kind of an interesting uh situation I I second because i believe in the process and i believe it's important to have this discussion and you know mr jones had called me early on and said this is this is what i feel like i'm wanting to do you know will you help me get on the floor and at the time i said well i can't i can't make any promises of how i'm going to go either way but you know i had a lot of respect for you i know you work hard and and i'll help you get on the floor but um you know checks and balances is a term that we know well uh it's it's in it's ingrained in us uh from the beginning of our ninth grade civics civics class it's just kind of a balance of how our government work

» s and and so we know that a government works when we have a healthy system of checks and balances and so the issue of sheriff bone run in the jail is not has nothing to do with the person Lee bone and I think that's very important for us to have when we have this discussion that everybody in this room understands that Lee bone is an outstanding human being he's an outstanding man and it does a phenomenal job running the Kershaw County Sheriff's Office and I have no doubt that mr. but mr.

» sheriff bone would would do a fantastic job at running the detention center however I think it's I think it's important to have checks and balances I think it is I think when you look at these two departments the sheriff's department and the detention in the detention center these are two departments that are well respected not only in our region but well respected in our in our state and I think a part of that has to do with both of them are single-minded focus on on on their respective missions you know the Sheriff's Department is able to have singly focus on the mission of law enforcement in our County the detention center and their staff are singly focused on the importance of housing uh those who have have been arrested uh who are who are who are awaiting adjudication uh to house them

» safely and effectively and so tonight it's it's easy to put a person with a policy it's easy to say well i like lee i mean i think lee lee's the guy and but we have to remember that tonight is not about lee bone it's about it's about changing policy in our county that a long-term policy in our County of checks and balances of their of their being this of this of this separation and so you know as I look at that tonight I was able to give you a second but I'm still I'm open to seeing how this is we want to play out as we as we go through our conversation the things that also things I think about is the current law enforcement climate that's in our country is under a microscope and I wouldn't want to do anything to our sheriff's office that would that might would put them even under more of a

» microscope you know by being not only the arresting officer but also being the ones who who house them so I think it's a it's a work it's a worthy discussion to be had I think the good news is either way this vote goes Kershaw County wins because we've got great center that at the detention center who will continue to do a great job and we've got a we've got a great sheriff but I think me it comes down as i as this this conversation plays out uh for me i'm looking at are there are there issues are there is there a reason significant enough to change standing policy in our county other comments yes uh mr jones please sir i disagree with what you just said mr snoggrass totally absolutely absolutely you know and this will draw more comments i'm sure but uh i've been involved in local governmen

» t been involved in local government for quite a while with my time on county council and then my time as the jail administrator director special services probably total about 38 years sheriffs run jails that's what they do you talk about checks and balances i tell you right now um working for a sheriff is checks and balances because i worked for a sheriff before working for county administrators checks and balances they are there no matter who runs the jail you know we talk about what if we get a different sheriff and than sheriff lee bone well what if we get a different county administrator in what if what if we get to get different county council members i mean that's just the way things work out there's going to always be somebody replacing everybody in life but i'm a firm believer that

» you know it was mentioned about well it's too large of a budget to combine both budgets you know you got the sheriff's department at what five something million then you've got the uh recreation department at 2.4 million i mean you've got large budgets in the county and we are i think what 28 me in total so it's not going to give the sheriff a majority i mean we still have the majority of the uh well we have all the budget control but it's just to me it just makes sense to do that and and you know i've knocked this around i've knocked it around and uh for the past 10 years and uh i've always supported the sheriffs when they came before us requesting to jail and you know the jail was uh i think turned over to the county in 1988 because they couldn't get the funding for it this man right here

» has come in and taken the sheriff's department asked for no additional funds from the taxpayers he's and yet he's taken it he's filled i think about every position he's got which is hasn't been done for the last five years there were many many vacancies but he's been able to take and reorganize and use monies on hand and not ask for any additional money from the taxpayers and he's doing the same thing tonight with the jail i think the sheriff has the right to have the jail if that's what he wants but i'm not through please thank you i'm not through i'm sorry that's all right i'm just catching my breath i really hope some of you will reconsider and vote to make this transfer possible i think sheriff bone has done everything he can possibly do to show us that um he's willing to make every eff

» ort possible to to run this county with the least amount of additional funds as possible and i think this would really i don't know how many how many openings does did you have any openings now do you know do y'all have any openings yes for there's a couple openings how many uh is it four okay two two okay two but it has been as high as what five six it fluctuates i can tell you now when it comes to recruitment and when it comes to retention to share i feel i feel my opinion would do a much better job at that and um thank you mr chairman thank you sir mr jones i would just make sure go ahead mr snodgrass i would say i agree with everything you said about about lee bone over there i agree with everything that you said about his effectiveness as a leader and his ability to come in and run the

» department his sheriff's department uh extremely well my point is i'm i'm separating that in this discussion i'm looking at is there a circumstance is there a situation at our detention center that would precipitate this need and and as i look at the staff and as i look at our detention center i'm just not seeing that there's a circumstance um that that requires that requires us that's all i'm saying and i'm just i'm just making it clear that as i've moved through this as i've moved through this issue i've tried to set i've separated the person from from the office and i'm not worried about who's the next sheriff's going to be because i the the the voters of kershaw county do a great job at electing sheriffs i don't have any doubt about that for me it's just it's just the policy and just i

» think our detention center stands on its own merit other comments uh yeah i'm sorry tom mr gardner yeah i've you know i've thought long and hard and i you know had a nice meeting for about an hour and a half with sheriff bone and uh my decision is not based on sheriff bone or anything else i look at this as you know our detention center isn't broken i don't i look at it like why does it need fixing so i can't support this if we had issues and things like that i'd be the first one to stand in line and say we need a change i just don't think we need a change and that's got nothing to do with sheriff bone i think if he had the jelly do a great job i think the next sheriff or whoever comes in would do a great job but i can't support it because i don't think we need a change i think you you hear

» d tonight that we get we have great results at our detention center do a good job with it and i don't see the need for a change and that's that's why i won't support this and it has nothing to do with personnel or anything else it's that's just the way I look at it I don't think that that it's broken and I don't think it needs fixing so I will not support this other comments yeah I'm sorry mr.

» Tucker obvious reasons that have been stated tonight throughout the county as the folks that I've spoken with and once again sheriff and I who I'm happily say that I supported during this campaign and worked hard did not agree on this decision so I removed myself from the personal side early on with him and he knew where I stood I'm under the concept and I used this analogy with him I don't think the Fox can guard the hen house and I'll stick with that quote I just truly believe in that and then I had other citizens in the community that confirm, and then I heard what was said tonight, and I think that, well, I have not heard anyone up here say tonight that the commander, Cato Terrell, is doing a fabulous job, fabulous job.

» He was doing a good job on the Peggy, and he's been bumped up, promoted up to step in the field until we go through the process, and I've heard nothing but good things about him, and that didn't come from him tooting his own horn. That has come from the public and his boss. So I have to agree with Councilman Gardner on saying, if it's not broke, what are we fixing? What do we truly fix it? Let me give you some background on Sumter County. How many of you are, or did you know that Lee and Sumter County Detention Center is a combined detention center? And when Sheriff Anthony Dennis took over down there, that wasn't because it was ran so great. They were in a pummel weed fall. There was nothing good about it. I know the former administrator from the jail, and I personally know the sheriff.

» There was nothing good about that going on down there. And so it was time of crises why they leaned on the sheriff to ask him to take it. And his first initial thought and answer was no. And then, of course, counsel continued to talk to him and encourage him. And then he looked into some things and he changed his mind. And I'm not telling you that they're doing a bad job down there because first of all, I don't live down there and I don't sit on that council, but I can tell you our detention center up here is doing very well and it's not a problem. So I'm not ready to take the helm from the captain that's running the ship and move it to a new captain because there are these bright ideas of collaboration and synergy and all these big words we like to use to move forward.

» Because I will say, and Mr. Carpenter, you correct me, a lot of those things that the sheriff has presented as far as working through and with the detention center is open now to work with administration where he can still do some of the things, a FETA program. He just doesn't have control, but he can still basically recruit from the detention center and still, you know, do other things such as, you know, the transportation part and things of that nature. But I don't think even the previous sheriff has come up to you and asked you of any of those collaborations. Am I wrong by stating that? Mr. Tucker, the previous sheriff did not. Sheriff Pohn has only been an officer a little bit. Right. So he hasn't had a chance to do that.

» And I can't comment on what the law would say regarding his hiring employees versus mine, so I would defer that to him. what he can do that I can't. But what I'm asking is the opportunity there. Does the opportunity exist? Certainly. I'm always going to be open to that. So with that being said, it's nothing personal to you, Sheriff. It's just where I stood several months ago when we first had a conversation and I have not actively recruited or advised anyone to feel the way I feel. I just feel the way that I feel from from my experiences and from my um from my information that I've received from my constituents and citizens of Kershaw County. Thank you. Other comments? I'm ready to call a vote but I do have a short statement here.

» The point is I've talked to federal and state judges and they all greatly oppose sheriffs being in charge of the detention center and we've heard twice now from the public defender and also in the previous minutes the last time this vote came up some years ago, the public defender, who looks out for the rights of the accused very strongly against that mixing of duties, not against the sheriff. And thanks to WPUB and the Chronicle, they both very faithfully captured her remarks. I very seldom refer to you two gentlemen for authority, but they were very faithfully captured my concern. So with that, I'm ready to call a vote All in favor of Mr. Jones' motion, please signify by raising your hand. Mr. Jones, in favor. And all those opposing, signify by raising your hand. And it's Mr.

» Connell, Mr. Bozard, Mr. Burns, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Snodgass, and the motion fails. We move now to the next item on the new business, item number. Mr. Chairman, one quick question to the administrator here. Mr. Carpenter, is there anything else you need from us to move forward? to get the head of the detention center settled in and job close? My understanding, Mr. Tucker, now is that with counsel's action, that I will proceed with the process of searching for and hiring an administrator. Thank you, sir. My understanding is that is the will of counsel. Thank you, Sammy. Good question. Okay, item number two on the new business is accommodations tax advisory committee reappointment.

» it's at tab e you see beth ford uh she is asked to uh to be reinstated uh can we have a motion to for beth ford so move mr jones a second second second for mr gardner uh any discussion by way of discussion only there are two vacancies if y'all could help me uh find out some more uh to help people to fill those positions with that we move to a vote all those in favor signify by raising your hand and and beth ford is reappointed we move to item number three which is uh reappointments of three persons for the clean community community commission uh we have mr webb here who's not being reappointed but as a his term remains thanks for coming tom the three names are wanda swan layna shoemake and dennis outlaw it's on the board there for you and it's at tab f i propose we move to a single vote sin

» ce this is a reappointment uh all those with can we have a motion to reappoint those three fine citizens mr chairman i have a point of clarification yeah i just recently heard from lana shoemake she's going to be teaching at a new school this year uh she was the chairperson of that committee so it's a sad loss for us but she won't continue on i'll be bringing another applicant to uh to this council at some point next meeting or thereafter so mary should we then remove elena from the all right so we're down to two wanda swan thank you thank you very much and dennis outlaw and that is a sad loss uh can we have a motion for those two other remaining uh mr bozardan second sister connell thank you uh very much ben that was a good uh short stop there any discussion uh we'll tell you that wanda sw

» an and uh and uh tom and judge HARDEST AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MEETING VERY MUCH WITH OUR SHERIFF TO TALK ABOUT LITTER AND GRANTS AND WE WILL SOON SEE A PROPOSAL FROM THEM AND I THANK THEM NOW LET'S MOVE TO A VOTE ALL THOSE IN FAVOR TO REAPPOINT WANDA AND DENNIS OUTLAW PLEASE SIGNIFY BY RAISING YOUR HAND AND IT'S UNANIMOUS WE MOVED NEXT TO THE ITEM NUMBER FOUR IF YOU CAN GET THIS ON THE BOARD WE HAVE THREE vacancies in the library board and we have our world award-winning librarian here tonight thank you for coming and I'll move now through a series of nominations by person there are four people competing at first can we have a motion to appoint a net little I'll make that much to a point mr.

» Tucker a second second david thank you very much uh any discussion about the appointment of annette little uh seeing there is none let's move to a vote all those in favor so signify and it's unanimous uh the next person down the list is uh johnny cornegay the younger uh tom gardner again you would like to make a motion i would move to appoint johnny cornegay to a second second mr snodgrass second um very good uh any discussion uh seeing there is none we move to a vote all those in favor of johnny cornegay so signify and it's unanimous mary and we now have next one down the list is tara simmons can we have a motion uh ban perhaps mr chairman i would make that motion it's actually tana simmons tana oh gosh tana thank you tana simmons a second second second from uh tom thank you very much sir

» um and with that any discussion seeing there is none we move to a vote all those in favor so signify and i apologize to tana thank you it's unanimous and that closes uh the slots that are available uh with that we move to the next item on the agenda let me catch up with myself which is item number five a bid to renovate the main library conference room at tab h mr carpenter can you introduce it mr chairman members of council um you have tonight in front of you a bid has been received for renovating the main library conference room this is the project that the friends of the library have approached the county to proceed with they are funding this for it um the low bid has been received from mika contracting of lexington um the council is asked to approve the awarding of the bid to MECA Contr

» acting for $57,391.20. Can you just talk about what the scope of work is, please? It's merely renovating the conference room at the library itself. No electricity, plumbing, just tearing out? Just basically working on the answer. Thank you. Can we have a motion to approve the recommendation of the low bid, please? Can I make a motion to- A second? Second. Mr. Snodgrass? Thank you.

» Any discussion? and i just say we got the best librarian in the world and the best library it's an old facility and i'm glad this is happening and uh i watch her behave at elgin and bethune and elsewhere with the bookmobile and it's a very vital part of our county thank you with that uh ben a quick point maybe for the future actually i remember two plus years ago we had a small building that we're going to build, and it's subject to Davis-Bacon funds, and that required bidding from certain companies that tend to bid just way over anything you would expect to pay per square foot.

» Even though it's a low bid, I see $57,000 for a conference room, and it makes me wonder, what is the value? I'll support the low bid this time, but so that I can be more informed, and maybe the rest of council in the future, I'm not looking for engineering drawings or anything, but I at least want to know roughly how many square feet we'd be renovating, and are we using some high-end materials or you can build a house for $57,000. It'd be a small one, but you could build one. So I just want a better understanding of return on investment whenever we're doing these kind of projects. Absolutely. Thank you. Very good. Other comments? Very good. Well, point taken, Ben. Thank you. With that, we move to a vote. All those in favor, signify by raising your hand. Mr. Snod, okay, it's unanimous.

» Thank you very much, Mary. It passes unanimously move to the next item which is a bid item number six to renovate Elgin one and two sewer pumps it's a tab I and it's on the board mr. carpenter mr. chairman members counselor this is a bid to replace not to renovate okay this is part of the southern loop sewer project as you recall the first step was to replace those pumps the Elgin one and two those are some of our larger pumps we received two responses to the bid of the low bid site concepts of Lugos South Carolina for one hundred ninety seven thousand three hundred and thirty five dollars staff recommends your approval and we have a motion to approve the low bidder there please second so move in second who's got the first I don't argue okay mr. Snodgrass and then seconded by mr.

» Tucker thank you let's move into a discussion please mr. Snodgrass mr. carpenter i support the staff in this uh move thank you i have a question yeah mr jones please sir thank you mr chairman members of county council um ken you don't see any issues with the fact that we we have on the agenda says bid to renovate i think it comes under the definition part of a building isn't it um inside the building yes sir i mean they're in a building yes sir it's the pumps themselves yeah but is there a difference between replace and renovate replace pumps or renovate I think Mr. Crawford is saying they're renovating a pump station. We're replacing the pumps. In a pump station. He said he's replacing the pumps. Yes, sir. They're in a building. He's putting words in his mouth. Yeah.

» Well, I think he's got the amount of the bid in here. Yes, sir. He's saying that he's renovating pump stations by putting new pumps in it. I think it fits the definition. Only, Mr. Jones, particularly because it's disclosed in the agenda package, the exact matter. So you don't think the word renovate is different from the word replace? Well, it's different. I can't hear you.

» that's my fault that's okay i picked up renovate i'm not upset about it i just want some clarification on it you do an outstanding job by the way and you know i feel that way so this has nothing to do with you this is just i want to because the administrator i think he he reviews it i think the chairman reviews it and it has renovate and we're saying we're going to replace so i'm just asking the question mr jones but for the agenda package contains the actual actual bid in the package which i think supplied everybody isn't that correct and it says there are two bids to replace it does use the word replace or sewer loop improvements clerk said she used the word renovate but it says elgin one elgin okay because i think the public and the council knows what the agenda item is. I'm good.

» Thank you, Mr. Kent. Mr. Bowles, I'm going to reinstate my motion if we need to. I'm fine. I'm good. Mr. Chairman, I think I'd like to thank you both for your English authority, and it's well stated, and I accept responsibility for not having reviewed thoroughly. But with that, I think we can move to a vote. But I do have a question.

» A little later on, are you going to be able to show us, Vic, in due time, how there is a progression of these at some point and at some point and uh these sewer pumps being replaced and i wouldn't want to do it tonight but i just absolutely out of the curiosity and we get into the fall we'll be discussing the whole southern new project oh that's right again absolutely well wonderful thank you way ahead of us as usual with that let's move to vote all those in favor so signify uh very good it's unanimous and passes thank you for that i move to the next item item number seven which is cancellation of the second meetings in each of the next four months 24 september 22 october 26 november subject to a call session if necessary can we have a motion mr gardner so moved uh second second for mr boza

» rd uh discussion mr gardner do you want to lead us off well it just things that uh based on tonight's meeting that we haven't had a meeting in a while there's just not enough to substantiate or have the need we can always call a meeting so uh i think that uh it's appropriate that we cancel those very good uh any other discussion mr jones mr chairman and members of county council and all due respect to my colleague and i do respect him uh i absolutely disagree with this and i think they're there it seems like we're on a path to go to one meeting a month july august september october november that's almost a half a year that we've counseled a meeting and and and you know i just i just can't go along with that i think there's plenty of business for us to address and so i will be voting against

» that tonight i do need to clarify again thank you Mr. Jones for good points thank you Mr. Chairman Mr. DuBose made it very clear that we need to be predictable and where there is actually in circumstances to cancel or to schedule and a call meeting is very much in that so thank you Mr. DuBose for pointing that out uh Mr.

» Bozart yes thank you and knowing this was coming up I was down at Hilton Head the rest of them last weekend and uh in my classes i had two on saturday and i had one on sunday and i asked in my class how many of the counties and in one class was 20 counties representative out of 46 in south carolina how many of them had one a month meetings and out of that 20 eight of them said they had one a month meetings so based on that and then my second time i asked um we had i think about everybody in the county i mean in the state was represented there and that number come out to be about the same about about a 45 percent so we're not the only county that as mr jones mentioned that's uh looking for once a month i'm not saying i'm looking for i mean once i'm not saying i'm looking for that but we're n

» ot the only counties that's looking at it and doing it uh let me be clear about the motion the motion is in the only through december uh and a call meeting could be uh brought it brought back in mr gardner is it your intent perhaps when you made the motion that we have two a month and work sessions once we go into january through july and the budget season i will probably be bringing that motion that i made this past year again quickly voted down last time but yes probably well we'll make a motion somewhat whether that's relative now not have two meetings through the first six months and one meeting for the last six especially during the budget okay of the budget I think we need two meetings yeah thank you mr.

» pose our other comments chairman yeah I don't want to belabor this this is you know but I do want to clarify I know that in in and one-on-one conversations with several you as I did say yes that's a that's a good idea but I was not aware that we were talking about doing it this year so just just because in the spirit of always being somebody who what I tell you behind closed doors is what I come out here and do I just want to make sure I clarify that I won't be able I won't be supporting this because I feel like it's it's important a previous council before I was on it set the calendar in December for this upcoming year and that's what has been published to to the public, and I would prefer just to stick with that.

» Now, I'm more than welcome to have the conversation in December for changing up the schedule once we get into 2020, but I won't be supporting these amendments. Other comments, Mr. Chairman? Yeah, Ben, please. So as I hear about this tonight and think about it, there's probably some very limited or nominal cost savings because we have people here over time that love hearing us talk into the late hours. I'm just trying to think through pros and cons. What's the process again for a call meeting, if you could explain that, Mr. County Attorney? Chairman can call a call meeting or a majority of county council. 24 hours of notice. We've got 24 hours of notice.

» And then could you explain what the notice is that goes to the media and otherwise? Well, Freedom of Information Act, you have to give 24 hours notice and post the agenda. Practical matter, this county council typically, including the chairman, has given more notice than 24 hours. That's all you have to do in 24 hours. You have to post the agenda and send the agenda out 24 hours other comments yes yeah mr.

» Jones so what I'm hearing tonight this is kind of the first when I saw it on the agenda because I've talked to nobody about this it seems to be the direction of this County Council that we're going to go to one meeting a month but we're doing it now if y'all vote this in you where it's one meeting a month for the rest of this year and that's what your intentions are for next year is what I've heard what I thought I heard and Jimmy if I can speak is you can only through December that's what's before us I understand but did you not just talk about something about in January when we come well what I said was that'll be addressed in December when we set the schedule but it's my view and I think I heard mr.

» Gardner say I'm not gonna speak for him that once we get into the January and budget cycle we'll go to two meetings a month plus two or one or two and maybe sometimes three working sessions until the budgets passed on the 30th of june now that's not what's before us tonight but we can discuss that in december mr chairman yes sir i'm sorry reminder that we don't set the calendar in january we set it in december that's my last meeting you said that we would look at setting it for the next year in january but it will be set in december that's what i said i'm sorry thank you for that clarification want some input be ready to have that addressed in december's meeting absolutely uh other comments ready to call the question all those in favor uh signify by raising your hand uh mr tucker mr gardner

» mr burns mr bozart and mr connell all those opposed so signify mr jones and mr snodgrass the motion passes and we will next meet unless there's a call meeting uh in the second the second tuesday of september with that we move to item number eight which is the administrator's recognition sir mr. chair members the council as we talked about our employees and in some detail tonight I want to take a chance and take a moment to recognize one of our employees something which I'm gonna start doing as as the opportunity presents itself to to me to share it with you in this community just the kind of people we have working for us star star medlin is an employee of our 9-1-1 office and you see that happy face carrying uh in front of her that to recognition i tell you what she did um she saved someone

» 's life um by administering and teach them how to to administer cpr over the phone until um someone could get there and someone's with us today because she did the job that she did and i just want this council to see the kind of people we have working thank you very much i told her she didn't have to talk if she didn't want to i'll take the hug thank you very much absolutely mr devos i know council briefings uh starting with uh you david yeah um i want to thank everyone for coming here tonight and uh we tackled some some tough some tough issues i do want to take some time to highlight a new business that's that's happening in our in our county um those of you know i take time to to recognize what i call a district five uh pride award and that's that's a recognition of of small business and

» entrepreneurs who are taking interest in putting private dollars back into some commercial buildings and in residential buildings and rehabbing them and particularly along the highway one north corridor uh which is uh certainly in in need of that and so always grateful for those and so i want to recognize it's called the there's a new there's a new sewing and sewing material shop in town called sc material girls at 1309 jefferson davis highway not only do they have fabric and and things of that nature but their main thing is really having classes in the evenings where they bring groups in they teach them and and they do different projects and so they they took a building that was vacant along the highway one north corridor and uh it's it's beautiful and so i just wanted to recognize them an

» d thank them uh for uh for putting putting dollars back into kershaw county thank you mr tucker thank you mr chairman and council members a couple quick things um i heard the word setting presidents up here used several times even from an administrator when we were discussing the the benefits for the employees. But I watch presidents being set, Mr. Chairman, by you, and I just need to highlight it because I plan on using every legal Robin's Rules of Order and our own policies if it happens again. I've never seen discussion, call for the vote, and then we reopen and pressure our colleagues change their vote and then call for the question. That is not the way we rule up here and the way that we act or conduct.

» And that makes me guard my vote that much more precious what I want to do now, because if you guys are not getting the votes you want, then you don't take it. You discuss it, discuss it, discuss it until you change minds and hearts. And that ain't what you're supposed to do up here. You're supposed to let everyone vote on their own conscience and heart and that did not happen tonight amen i will not end on a sour note because i don't wake up on a sour note mr cato thank you again for what you're doing keep plugging and head up shoulders back and move full speed ahead um mr sheriff lee bone you do the same keep doing what you're doing and moving this county forward in a good direction and just know um tonight i was not on your side but I'm always on your side.

» And that's not just lip service, and you know that. I want to state, too, that we're doing a lot of good things in the COG. We had a COG meeting just last night down at Santee Lynch's, and there is some efforts being made to partner with SC Thrive and other groups to give better services to our region. I will be bringing more information about that and other opportunities that we're doing down there within the next month or so. But I also want to state, too, that this past June, I was elected to the second vice chairman of that board, of that COG. That concludes my report. Mr. Garner. Just before it's been mentioned, but, again, our Ponytail softball team, congratulations to them. They represented not only Kershaw County, but the state of South Carolina very well.

» They won their first two games, weren't quite as lucky in the last two, but first team, I think, ever from Kershaw County girls softball to make it to the World Series, and I think we're going to honor them at the next meeting. Is that correct? That's correct. Absolutely. Thank you. Mr. Bozard. Thank you, sir.

» I did not vote for the park down here by the river, but I go down about every Saturday, and I talk with some of the people, and i was very much surprised at how many people do use that one man told me that they like to go down and fish because he lives in town and he doesn't have a place on the river to go up on the lake but he does now and that's good that's good to know that people are using it and i saw a lot of people down there a man and his son was out walking around and checking everything out but Before I go any further, I want you to tell Shane that that place down there is very clean, and I'm glad to see how they're taking care of it, Mr. Carpenter, because it is very clean. They're keeping it very clean, and the people using it, I didn't see any trash anywhere around.

» But I'm happy to know that people are using it. They're using the facility. It's not being overrun now by no means. i don't mean that but they're down there using it and that's that's what we want them to see them do um this past wednesday i made a trip to washington for a conference up there that was with north carolina south carolina and tennessee and um the conference was on thursday and i came back friday morning the conference was um very helpful in a lot of ways to me because there's some projects that i'm trying to get done and i got some information there that just might help get it accomplished but the speaker there was outstanding sonny purdue who is the secretary of agriculture he's also the past governor of georgia uh that is one outstanding man he's an outstanding speaker mark

» mcmorvaney came on and he didn't have a subject he opened it up to anything anybody in the room wanted and there was over 250 300 of us in the room and he shouldn't have done that because i think maybe he might have got more than he wanted but uh the question of transportation studies came up and he spent some time with it and asking our answering our questions and so forth but he asked me one that i couldn't answer but i am going to try to take care of that Monday or Tuesday when I get back I've been looking for money to take care of these transportation studies in Kershaw County we've already the study is complete we're just trying to find money and that's what I was doing trying to find money I haven't he didn't promise me anything but he did say that he would try to help any way he coul

» d that's it thank you very much Mr. Connell yes Mr. Chairman would just like to thank Lena Shoemake for her service on the clean community commission and it's uh i guess renewed inception year um they did a great deal of work if you recall the road cleanup led to hundreds and hundreds it's kind of sad to say but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds bags of trash that we cleaned up and county at its entry points looked a lot better renewed a sense of pride in the community that i think we need for those communal spaces and common areas so we don't have so much litter and uh also wanted to say you know, Sheriff Lee Bone, obviously I support you. Love coming and cooking for the Sheriff's Department. Contributed financially to your campaign.

» Believe you in many, many ways, but we just happen to disagree on this particular issue. And I think the only thing we didn't get you this year in your budget request was that fingerprint scanner we were talking about. I hope you get it next year and whatever else you need to effectively carry out the law enforcement duties in Kershaw County.

» I'm also very proud of the athletes that competed representing Kershaw county and softball it's a tough thing to be a student athlete i mean it's really hard between the required testing you have from the state of south carolina and the federal government and then try to balance practice on top of that and then any other extracurriculars you do it's really tough so those and so many other student athletes will be engaging next week in what it is to be a student athlete the school's about to start i just hope and pray that all the kids will We'll have a great year, be able to work hard, be safe, and study well. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the county council. I have just a few things I want to mention.

» One, I'd just like to take a moment to just say that a friend of mine, Rick Aaron, the chairman knows and is a friend of the chairman's as well, passed away last Thursday, and thoughts and prayers go to the family. And, Sheriff, I appreciate all you've done where that's concerned as well, too. He'll surely be missed. mr. Bozar I haven't seen those people you're talking about but I'm gonna be looking and just haven't seen them and also I'd like to say mr. Tucker thank you for standing up tonight on what no you well you can't tell you sometimes but anyway bottom line me speaking out I - mr.

» chairman I I have never seen what happened tonight happened before on County Council it was obvious that there were that you were not gonna close it out to you made sure you had the four votes we had already and and I was sitting there praying nobody would get weakening but it happened and bottom line is you heard the four votes for it and you were relentless in making sure and and I'm gonna tell you that's not in the policy sir I don't I don't think you have that right to do that and I'm not personally as one council member I'm not gonna stand for it because if we go close that discussion call the question take the motion take the second and then absolutely pound pound and ground ground until we get our four votes that is not the way this County Council works that was unheard of you've bee

» n here 14 15 years I've been here 13 years that didn't make us any experts I hope mr. Tucker that you and I are not are not the only ones that feel that way but um so anyway now on another note I also think that when this County Council takes trips the Hilton head that they should and there may be tonight but it hasn't been there will be a report by the chairman or some member of County Council but it should it's usually always been done by the the chairman I just like to see that and and you know have a recap as to what happened and what went on because I know there's a lot of good information there and I know you guys before time and going to the classes and everything and also I'm gonna leave on a very good note I'm like mr.

» Tucker sheriff the Association of counties counties stated because i called and talked to mr robert bentfield that there was less liability with the sheriff running the jail than the county so i'll leave it at that mr chairman and members of county council thank you so much for the time i really enjoyed this and i that concludes my remarks very much uh i go down to the watery river every saturday morning with my fly rod and i wish i could report i was using the right lure but i meet a number of people back down there and this thing will only grow i think we'll hear shortly from our uh administrator about what the progress is of creating a better environment down there and going to phase one to include a park ranger so i assure you it is used very often uh about the the trip down to uh hilto

» n head the hour is late but i will summarize a couple of them uh most of the counties that i talked to in fact i didn't talk to any county that didn't go to a one a month after they got the budget done now i don't have the same sampling size it wasn't it wasn't uh scientific but that's the way it went down so that's where we are today uh that was a one of the major discussion items another one was uh the continuing issue with compensation uh as you heard tonight and my great concerned about risk on that regard, and this ought to be a budgetary item, and I would hope Mr. Carpenter will set that up for us in the new budget cycle. The recession is over.

» That is the good news, and we perhaps can look at compensation and pension, but we don't know, and we don't know what the budget's going to do, and we don't know what, moreover, what the legislators are going to do to us. So we'll find out. But I think with a booming economy and full employment and local sales tax and LGF might be more favorable. Those are the major issues for me. Reinforcement on ethics and discussions with Councilman Snodgrass, our newest councilman, about the classes he went to were more than just fundamental. And it was interesting to hear his perspective.

» And I thank you for going those of you that went down and took time away from your family or with your family i think you all profited and a more formal report mr jones since you asked for one will be forthcoming thank you um we broke ground today uh many of you were there that they mr snoggrass mr connell were there um and what we did is we have turned a corner on a new pathway to the american revolution in the South, a pathway to telling our story and that of our ancestors. It is a great, painful story about liberty. It's an amazing story. So about a year from now, we'll start seeing that thing. And when the city of Camden gets through building it, thanks to the efforts of Vic Carpenter and others like him, we will see a great event.

» Secondly, we'll break ground on Thursday, and I hope most of you can go there because Gene Wise, my predecessor, led us on a joint use campus that this council put into motion with the CCTC funding and much of, again, the work that Vic Carpenter did. And along with other partners, we will cut the ribbon on Thursday, and I hope all of you can make it. It is a great day for economic development.

» A little later on, on that same point we'll have an executive session on two contractual matters regarding economic development there will not be a vote it'll be an update lastly on parliamentarian items i'm not perfect and i and if i offend people i apologize but generally i'd like to ask also and reciprocal that when you bring in such a complex item that essentially opens the budget again with hundreds of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars, that impacts every employee we have, that we not see charts for the first time less than an hour before this meeting, that we not see the motion, and I have no idea what the motion was before we come in here, when it was 17 or was it 82 or was it 86.

» That's a complex issue fundamentally impacting our liabilities and the taxpayers and i wanted i was and i was quite pointed on that as a parliamentarian issue there's another parliamentarian issue that when you vote on the minutes three times and on a policy three times and more than once for each successive year to this point the men up here take responsibility for what they voted on and and that's why there was such passion up here passion on three who are here and then the passion by those who us who inherit this issue and another six months to look at it and take it apart is why I held for what I did as to the calling the question on the parliamentarian I'll have to go back and look but I called the question and then mr. Jones asked if mr.

» Bozart had a further comment and I remember that so if I if I'm wrong on that if I it will certainly will and I hope you will come back to me Mr. Tucker and give me further instructions I'm always welcome to that sort of instruction all right well with that Mr. Mr. Administrator would you take it from here Mr. Chairman Members Council first of all Mr.

» Chairman I'd like to the information that you received was information that I had been compiling and put together I did not myself have it until it was received by all members of council at the same time right this is not something that was a deliberate effort it was my efforts just did not bear fruit until that time just before the council met itself it didn't change the basic information that was already in the packet it just added more information to it thank you sir yes sir you did a great job it's just it's just a complex topic go ahead please sir um i'm going to give council brief update on a number of projects um you can see uh on the screen of the projects um i won't necessarily read them to you but essentially the projects that we have we have a number of them the Mason Lane EMS st

» ation as you can see we're ready start landscaping it starting this week we've done that EMS should be moving into that station we hope sometime in early September Governor's Hill Road that's part of the project that we have economic development projects to get the Governor's Hill site ready for industry we started work on 3,300 square feet of gravel road in it. October 26 is the date for completion as you see. The entrance sign will be visible from the interstate so people understand that there is an industrial park there as well. The Heritage Point wastewater line, the engineers are done with it. Information has been submitted to DHEC. We hope that it should be approved by them in mid-September.

» The disturbed land that took to get to there should be completed as well as we've already started seeding it. this building, the modifications to the government center. Tomorrow, we begin modifications to this chamber for safety upgrades. The safety upgrades will essentially be putting a barrier, a half wall, not a wall, but a half wall between council. And it's unfortunate we have to do that. But anyone who has read news stories in recent years is aware that public bodies are a risk, as people have unfortunately brought their anger into meetings and sessions. So we'll be doing other work as well for that. We have finished the executive session room, so a little bit of paint is still needed.

» And then the parking lot, we're under the final design for that and review for the parking lot, which will make it safer for the current parking lot with access and egress onto Broad Street. It's dangerous. It's too narrow of an entranceway. People pull out blindly into the street, so we'll be looking to relocate the entrance to this building into a side road, either Walnut Street or Little Street or both, in a fashion that, again, makes it safe for our citizens to enter and exit this facility. Our CCTC landscaping, the final design is underway. It'll include the rail-to-trail section on that project, as well as incorporating the old ATEC, new WTC landscaping. Our public notification sign at Mesa, as you know, at the airport, we have our first public notification sign.

» This will be our second. The idea being ultimately, as we work on county facilities, we put these access signs where citizens can see and get information from severe weather alerts, amber alerts, silver alerts, information about county council meetings and workshops coming up. People complain frequently to us that they just don't know. And so we're trying even further to get the information out into the communities that we serve. The armory on DeKalb Street, we've issued RFQs to secure an architect engineer to begin evaluating what we need to do to the exterior of that building. And then an RFQ on the roof itself. This is funding that was approved by the General Assembly of South Carolina, $500,000 in the current budget.

» So we'll be able to make some significant changes to the exterior and to the interior of that building as well. We've begun the process to get an architect to design our new fire station and cast it. The reason we need to do that is because the old architect that designed the building in Blaney is no longer in business, and we cannot find copies of the plans, so we will have to redesign the building, though it will be as similar to the Blaney one as we can make it. Though we did try to use existing plans, that just was not possible to happen. But we have acquired the land, or are in the process of acquiring the land in Cassett, so we can move on that. Important to everyone is our KCOS ball fields. We have been assured by the Armstrong construction they'll be completed Friday of this week.

» We're now working on the specs for lighting of those remaining four fields. The Recreation Commission has approved us moving forward with lighting of it. And we're optimistic at this point. We've not received bids yet because we're not put out for it. But we're optimistic that if the bids would come in in a range we think they should, that we can put up funding for put up all four lights on those fields. All four fields would be lit.

» Watery River Park we opened the bids today at three o'clock we cannot the bids are not been finalized yet but based on the bids we received sex phase one can be completed for the funding the council has allocated a phase one again includes the canoe and kayak launch it includes parking it includes a walking trail and nature trail in it so it'll begin us moving forward to the phase one therefore should be completed uh we would anticipate sometime by spring of next year that phase one will be open for that park and at that point it'll be open seven days a week 24 7.

» yes mr carpenter yes sir is any thing in your plans to that walking trail down inside the creek to make that a little wider especially up at the top it's too much overhanging yes and trees yes Yeah, so the current trail was staff-created. This will be a design trail. One will be natural, which will be the trail. Then there will be a walking path that will be a hard surface for people to go and walk laps or whatever as well. So people can go and walk the trail around the river, which will be a natural one, and quieter, softer. And then the walking trail itself on the interior. With the splash pad, I put up a schedule for you to see. Again, the City of Camden and Kershaw County are jointly sharing this construction project.

» The date we start in August, we've already begun the scheduling of the master planning with it. We would anticipate construction starting in December. And next summer, Memorial Day, when the pool opens, it'll open as well. If you've been by the airport recently, the construction has been underway for some time on the drainage project. We anticipate it being completed by mid-November. And the Elgin Park, again, the General Assembly approved funding for the creation of the park in Elgin, our first park in Elgin. The final design is underway. Bidding will be received in fall, and we expect completion by June of 2020 for that project as well. And I believe that those are all the projects I had to report on for you. I also wanted to give you an update on the airport.

» The FBO for the airport, Camden Jet Center, many years our FBO had notified us that they will be terminating their lease in September of this year. Staff have been working to ensure that there is a transition that is smooth and is seamless so that citizens and aviators notice no difference between the county and the FBO running it. Council will be provided with the information and a decision will be made by this council whether to go out for bids for a new FBO or for the county to run it itself. But in the interim, staff will have stepped in, and you'll notice no difference in the running of it as well. And I also just needed to notify council the bids for the pump stations were very important tonight.

» We had to, back a few weeks ago, issue an emergency purchase order for $19,000 to keep the current pumps running. so we are again they've they're past their lifespan and we couldn't have come sooner with approving the purchase of those those two pumps and last thing is mr. Gardner and others pointed out the ponytails at their request we'll be recognizing them in September we had seen if they wish to be recognized tonight but at their request they asked to be delayed until September and the Members of council, that is my report. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Administrator. Yes, sir. I need to ask him one question. Go ahead, Mr. Bozart.

» I was asked down, I think it was last Saturday, is there a rumor going around, is there anything in the process for us to take over Goodall State Park? Yes, sir. No? No. When the Rec Commission did their priority list, one of the items they mentioned was the county assuming Goodall State Park. so they thought that would be something good for the future but that was all it was was a future project to consider the county itself has never entered into any serious discussions with the state parks now the state park has told us that they would not be unhappy if the county would take over goodall um but the county has not come to them and said that we will take over goodall state park that's her okay so right now we're just looking at it yeah absolutely i mean i can't say that at some point this

» council wouldn't decide to do it but this is nothing that staff is seriously pursuing does sir thank you first i've heard okay uh mr carver thank you for uh that update on the projects do you can you for the ones that may want this electronically please send it out absolutely i'm one of them so we can share with the citizens absolutely okay all right um at this time i think mr the bows you have a um a legal um executive session for us will you state that yeah mr mr chairman mr vice chairman acting as chairman uh it's my understanding that um we need an executive session to discuss two contractual matters okay we've heard from our county attorney that we need an executive session for two contractual matters economic development along the economic development of operations is there a motion m

» otion is made by mr bozard is there a second second second by mr gardner any discussion hearing none all in favor say aye or raise your hand i'm sorry raise your hand okay any nays all right it's unanimous miss mary and what time do you have okay 7 57 let's go in a big conference room right back and we won't be long motion to adjourn before i recognize that motion uh there was um executive session and no action needed nor taken uh motion to adjourn again all right uh motion made by councilman gardner second by councilman CONNELL. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HANDS.